Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Monday, November 13, 2017

Judge, Bellinger named BBWAA Rookies of Year | MLB.com

An expected result.

Jim Furtado Posted: November 13, 2017 at 07:03 PM | 86 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: awards, rookie of the year

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: November 13, 2017 at 07:40 PM (#5575501)
I HATE it when Chris Truby and Albert Belle make the correct choices and there's nothing to argue about
   2. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: November 13, 2017 at 07:45 PM (#5575510)
Congrats, gentlemen. Looking forward to a decade-plus of home runs from both.
   3. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: November 13, 2017 at 08:14 PM (#5575533)
The easiest pick of the awards.

Do we now play the "who will have the better career" game?
   4. Tony S Posted: November 13, 2017 at 08:16 PM (#5575538)

Both well deserved. Congratulations to Judge and Bellinger.

I hope Judge follows the Jay Buhner career path. Including the trade elsewhere for peanuts.
   5. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: November 13, 2017 at 08:19 PM (#5575539)
I found this to be kind of one of those wow! stats

Bellinger is the Dodgers' 18th Rookie of the Year
   6. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: November 13, 2017 at 08:19 PM (#5575540)
"Ken Phelps!"
   7. Adam Starblind Posted: November 13, 2017 at 08:25 PM (#5575554)
WHAT THE HELL DID YOU TRADE JAY BUHNER FOR!!???
   8. Jose is an Absurd Doubles Machine Posted: November 13, 2017 at 08:26 PM (#5575556)
The first ROY was 1947 so they have 18 out of 71, that is “WOW” worthy.
   9. Rally Posted: November 13, 2017 at 08:26 PM (#5575559)
About as easy an ROY vote as I can remember.

Better career? Bellinger seems obvious just because he is so much younger.
   10. Rally Posted: November 13, 2017 at 08:27 PM (#5575561)
His baseball people kept telling him "Ken Phelps! Ken Phelps!"
   11. Tony S Posted: November 13, 2017 at 08:29 PM (#5575565)

So who is today's Ken Phelps?

Lucas Duda?
   12. John DiFool2 Posted: November 13, 2017 at 08:29 PM (#5575567)
They got 2 HoFers out of those 18: Jackie Robinson & Mike Piazza.
   13. Infinite Yost (Voxter) Posted: November 13, 2017 at 08:30 PM (#5575569)
Do we now play the "who will have the better career" game?


Of course we do. Where's the fun, otherwise?

If dem Bums move Bellinger to CF, which all reports indicate he could handle quite well, there might be a conversation. But at this point Aaron Judge is this generation's Mark McGwire -- maybe not guaranteed to be its greatest player, but very likely to be a great one. Much as it bums me out to admit as much.
   14. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: November 13, 2017 at 08:35 PM (#5575573)
Bellinger is the Dodgers' 18th Rookie of the Year


OTTOMH:

Robinson
Newk
Junior Gilliam
Billy Grabinass
Rick Sutcliffe
Steve Howe
Steve Sax
Eric Karros
Raul Mondesi
Mike Piazza
Corey Seager
Cody Bellinger
Hideo Nomo
Mark Grudz

edit:

Mixed up Grudz and Hollandsworth. And Grabinass and Sizemore. Missed Fernando (Doh!!), Lefebrve, Frank Howard, and Joe Black. not bad.





   15. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: November 13, 2017 at 08:53 PM (#5575590)
at this point Aaron Judge is this generation's Mark McGwire


To borrow from Bill James, Aaron Judge is a good player if he hits 190.
   16. Man o' Schwar Posted: November 13, 2017 at 09:04 PM (#5575603)
I HATE it when Chris Truby and Albert Belle make the correct choices and there's nothing to argue about

I miss my outrage, though anything less than unanimous selections here would have been a joke. (I'm kind of surprised no Boston writer snuck Benintendi in there, just to stick it to the Yankees. You could make the argument that no one who strikes out 37 games in a row should be ROTY.)

Nice to see Ian Happ got one 3rd place vote. Not sure why Maddon soured on him in the postseason, but he earned a good look at more playing time in 2018. I was surprised by his power (though maybe it was just 2017 balls).
   17. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: November 13, 2017 at 09:13 PM (#5575608)
I'm going with Rally. I think the age difference is a huge factor, so I'll say Clay at this stage. Judge's high K rate still scares me a bit. I think pitchers(and teams in general) will be better prepared going into 2018. Then again if Sanchez is hitting behind him, you're gonna have to throw him some strikes as I think Sanchez is really the guy who could have an amazing career(passed balls and not catching the ball during plays at the plate notwithstanding)
   18. The Yankee Clapper Posted: November 13, 2017 at 09:32 PM (#5575619)
Big day for Aaron Judge, Rookie of the Year, and an endorsements deal with Pepsi. He already had deals with Under Amour and Rawlings, and was recently named the cover athlete for the "MLB The Show '18" video game. The endorsement money might have a bit of an impact on Judge's long-term contract situation, possibly cushioning any rush to sign a deal on the low side before he hits arbitration or free agency.
   19. PreservedFish Posted: November 13, 2017 at 09:40 PM (#5575623)
You need another hobby
   20. BDC Posted: November 13, 2017 at 09:57 PM (#5575634)
Judge was nearly 200 points in raw OPS better in his rookie year in the majors than his last year in the minors. Is that unprecedented? McGwire was only slightly better; Mike Trout was only slightly better. (Even to match the raw number is very impressive, of course. Mike Piazza OPS'd .932 as a rookie, in Dodger Stadium, which was fantastic, but the year before in the minors he was at 1.000.)

Bellinger was about 60 points better. Fred Lynn was 110 points better, Bob Hamelin about 125, but I can't find another player closer to Judge's mark.

EDIT: Looking back a bit further, both Walt Dropo and Frank Robinson were about 140 points of OPS better as rookies than the year before.
   21. shoewizard Posted: November 13, 2017 at 10:04 PM (#5575639)
What/whose is the projection system on BB-REF right now ?

   22. PreservedFish Posted: November 13, 2017 at 10:11 PM (#5575645)
I don't know, but it clearly hasn't considered the moral and physical enervation that Judge is sure to experience shilling for Big Sugar.
   23. Cooper Nielson Posted: November 13, 2017 at 11:08 PM (#5575672)
WHAT?!? NOT TREY MANCINI?!?
   24. Walt Davis Posted: November 13, 2017 at 11:16 PM (#5575675)
Judge was nearly 200 points in raw OPS better in his rookie year in the majors than his last year in the minors. Is that unprecedented? McGwire was only slightly better; Mike Trout was only slightly better. (Even to match the raw number is very impressive, of course. Mike Piazza OPS'd .932 as a rookie, in Dodger Stadium, which was fantastic, but the year before in the minors he was at 1.000.)

Bellinger was about 60 points better. Fred Lynn was 110 points better, Bob Hamelin about 125, but I can't find another player closer to Judge's mark.


He isn't particularly close but you might be looking too high up the food chain. Lindor was 108 points better than his combined AA/AAA 2014 OPS, 83 points over his 2015 AAA OPS (262 PA). I'm sure there's another recent example like this but I can't remember who. (Might be Trea Turner's 842 to 937 ... he also went from 6 HR in 371 PA to 13 in 324 ... still doesn't match Judge.)

Or you should be looking at the other Yankee. Sanchez hit 815 combined AA/AAA in 2015 then 807 in 313 PA in 2016 AAA then 1032 in the majors.

Obviously these things all get complicated about how you want to handle half-seasons at either level. It's very impressive that Judge managed this over a full season and that, after the slump, he built his seasonal OPS+ back from about 150 to 170 over the last 6 weeks or so.

At one point I did look at essentially any player who put up a 170ish OPS+ at age 25 or maybe it was at any age and the worst outcome and about the only "bad" one was Richard Hidalgo. You definitely got more checkered careers as you got closer to 150 so that late surge might well be evidence of staying power. Not that they continued to produce at a 170 OPS+ but there's a very good chance he's got a number of 140-150 seasons left in him.

I think I'd have to put my money on Judge. Bellinger's age obviously is a very big factor but we are talking about a 29 point OPS+ gap for this season, a massive OBP gap and a massive 35 Rbat gap (which is still 30 after adjusting for playing time). Judge had the much better offensive season and the chances are not very big that Bellinger will ever match that. Or Bellinger is the next Pujols, take your pick. :-) Obviously the age edge gives Bellinger a better chance of the higher career WAR than he has at matching Judge's peak so you might still prefer Bellinger.

I don't know what impact the scoring context might have on Rbat but in the expansion era, only 124 seasons with an Rbat of 55+. Just over half of them are from "the likely suspects" ... and Miggy only has two to give you an idea of how rare it is to do multiple times. Bonds with 10 and Thomas with 8 easily lead the way. The worst hitter to do it once is probably Matt Kemp. After that, it's probably Caminiti, Magglio Ordonez, Jim Gentile, Prince Fielder or Derrek Lee. Everybody else looks to be at least HoVG. The only guys who've done it more than once that aren't in the HoF for non-roid reasons are Giambi and Belle (who might have both gotten ruled out for roid suspicion reasons if they'd had better careers).

If I sort it by age, only 22 of those seasons came before age 25 with 12 of those by Trout, Thomas, ARod and Pujols (3 each). Olerud, Harper and Canseco are the only others to do it younger than 25. So being 25 doesn't diminish Judge's accomplishment even if we think he's more likely to turn out like Berkman (331/430/620 at 25) than Pujols.

Of course those age results suggest that what Bellinger did is pretty good too. There are only 56 expansion seasons, aged 22 or younger (CB is 21) with 20+ Rbat. Focusing on the reasonable range of 20-30 (CB pro-rated to Judge's PA came in at 28), the list is impressive but a lot less so. Guys like Miggy, Stanton, and ARod did it at 21 and Reggie waited until 22; but guys like Blefary, Brunansky, Horner did it at 21 too. This is a bit more an "oh baby!" zone for C/SS/2B/3B/CF -- so if he could play a solid CF for a decade, he's onto something. Not that there's anything wrong with having Reggie, Miggy, Stanton and other HoFers in the comp list, but it's a lot more common to do this at 20-22 then not get any better (and often worse) than it was to ever post a 170 OPS+ and not continue to mash at a high level.

Here is the age 21 specific list

Trout 68
Pujols 51
Cedeno 46
Rickey 41
Griffey 35
Correa 27
Morgan 27
Miggy 27
Stanton 27
Blefary 26
Horner 24
ARod 24 (but 58 at age 20)
Bench 24
Bellinger 23
Greg Gross 23 (!!!!!)
Bruno 21
Santo 20

And not listed, Heyward 32 at age 20.

Arguably, Bellinger's "low" OBP and playing time might mean the counting stat Rbat is a bit tilted against him. But by OPS+, the tale is not a lot different. He's at 142 which is right there with Stanton but also Blefary and 10+ points behind Griffey, Pujols, Cedeno and Trout at age 21. There are a bunch who did it at age 22 as well and all pretty solid players but many on the less impressive side of that (Panda, Rick Monday, Jeff Burroughs, Melvin Upton).

Basically it's impossible to have a higher upside than the list Judge is on and Judge's list has a higher downside too. But, based on these lists, both are nearly guaranteed to be at least good players barring career-altering injury.
   25. Random Transaction Generator Posted: November 14, 2017 at 12:22 AM (#5575714)
and was recently named the cover athlete for the "MLB The Show '18" video game


Only in America.

In Canada, it's Marcus Stroman. Previous Canadian covers went to Aaron Sanchez, Josh Donaldson (for both US/Canada), Russell Martin, Brett Lawrie, and two for Jose Bautista.
It's assumed that Wei-Yin Chen will grace the Taiwan cover for a 6th consecutive year.
The South Korean cover has not been announced yet. Previous cover players were Hyun-Soo Kim, Jung-Ho Kang, and Shin-Soo Choo (twice).

Bellinger is the Dodgers' 18th Rookie of the Year


Recently (last 40 years), when they win they do it in consecutive years.
1947 (both leagues)
1949
1952-1953
1960
1965
1969
1979-1982
1992-1996
2017-2016


   26. Lest we forget Posted: November 14, 2017 at 01:44 AM (#5575731)
"That's something Alex Rodriguez told me in Spring Training: 'Have your moment.' Whether it's taking an extra base or making a good play, do anything you can do if you aren't swinging it that day.""

Sage advice from the new face of retired baseball players.
   27. Sunday silence Posted: November 14, 2017 at 05:50 AM (#5575739)
I can't help but think these guys are a creation of the current environment they exist in. The home run derby era or wotever.

If judge played in the 70s he's Kingman or Schmidt or someone and he's not hitting 58. If he played in the 60s he's Dick Allen or he's Jimmy Wynn at the same age in 1967 and playing in ATL or CHI and leading the league in KOs and HRs.

I mean if the current environment changes then maybe these guys don't continue to have the same trajectory. I dunno what the future is but I don't think the current TTO trend is sustainable.

Oh and he's ten inches taller than Wynn and he covers RF like Bobby Bonds in Frank Howard's body.
   28. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: November 14, 2017 at 07:48 AM (#5575758)
I'm going with Rally. I think the age difference is a huge factor, so I'll say Clay at this stage. Judge's high K rate still scares me a bit.

In truth both of them have historically high K-rates per 162 games: Judge 223 and Bellinger 179, not to mention that in the postseason they both whiffed at historic rates while being completely puzzled by breaking balls that were down and away (Judge) or down and in (Cody). I'd say they're both going to have to make a lot of adjustments if they want to repeat their better numbers.
   29. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: November 14, 2017 at 07:55 AM (#5575760)
Recently (last 40 years), when they win they do it in consecutive years.
1947 (both leagues)
1949
1952-1953


Interesting that all four of those Dodgers' ROYs (Robinson, Newcombe, Black and Gilliam) were black, and at the end of that period fully half of the teams** in the Majors were still lily white.

The Pirates, Cardinals, Reds, Nats, Yankees, Phillies, Tigers and Red Sox.
   30. BDC Posted: November 14, 2017 at 08:25 AM (#5575766)
both of them have historically high K-rates

Judge drew 127 walks, though. That kind of ratio (to 208 strikeouts) reminds me of Jim Thome in mid-career. It may not be fun to watch, but you can't argue with the results in terms of run-scoring.

Bellinger drew 64 (to 146 strikeouts) and it may be that he has some flaw that pitchers will work on to drive that ratio down, in which case one would worry about him. But Judge is basically coming out way ahead in controlling the strike zone, as his .422 OBP shows.

Another reason to prefer Judge going forward, along Walt's lines of thinking.
   31. Morty Causa Posted: November 14, 2017 at 08:37 AM (#5575771)
Judge and Mike Trout are the same age. Trout has been doing this for six seasons. Makes you think.
   32. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: November 14, 2017 at 09:45 AM (#5575801)
Yeah, makes you think that we probably shouldn't compare anybody to Trout.
   33. DavidFoss Posted: November 14, 2017 at 09:52 AM (#5575807)
What/whose is the projection system on BB-REF right now ?

That's Marcel the Monkey

https://www.baseball-reference.com/about/marcels.shtml

Tango invented it. It is simple weighted averages of the past three seasons with a small age correction. Sounds slightly more clever than a monkey but whatever. It supposed to be a 'baseline' projection. If your more complicated projection system can't beat marcel, then your complexity isn't worth anything.
   34. Rally Posted: November 14, 2017 at 09:56 AM (#5575810)
Judge was nearly 200 points in raw OPS better in his rookie year in the majors than his last year in the minors. Is that unprecedented?


Not as big a jump as Judge but Hanley Ramirez went from 720 in AA to 833 in MLB, the next year he was up to 948.
   35. Rally Posted: November 14, 2017 at 09:58 AM (#5575812)
Matt Holliday had a 100+ point jump, 708 in AA to 837 in Colorado. But that's Coors field for you.

Ryan Braun was 871 in A+/AA in 2006, dominated AAA in 34 games to start 2007 and finished up the season with a 1.004 OPS in Milwaukee to win the ROY.
   36. Rally Posted: November 14, 2017 at 10:07 AM (#5575820)
Here's a real fluke:

Chris Singleton 691 in AAA, then 818 as a rookie. Never hit remotely as well again.
   37. BDC Posted: November 14, 2017 at 10:17 AM (#5575831)
Thanks for finding these examples, everybody. I haven't found anyone coming closer than Dropo and Robinson. One problem with going very far down the chart is that you're not likely to get promoted if your minor-league OPS is low enough to allow for a very substantial improvement as a ML rookie.

The best bets are guys who, like Judge, were neither super-young nor super-well-heralded. Matt Nokes in 1987, for instance, OPS of .880 after six years in the minors, the last of those at .769. A guy named Don Lenhardt, a 27-year-old rookie in 1950, .871 for the Browns after .758 in the Texas League in 1949. But now we're getting down to the mere curiosities.

* I should say that I've been looking for full seasons as ML rookies. Gary Sanchez, as Walt mentioned, made a spectacular mid-season jump from .807 to 1.032. But the years before and after are .815 in the minors, .876 in the majors.
   38. dlf Posted: November 14, 2017 at 10:20 AM (#5575833)
Yeah, makes you think that we probably shouldn't compare anybody to Trout.


What about (Kevin) Bass?
   39. OsunaSakata Posted: November 14, 2017 at 10:40 AM (#5575848)
Yeah, makes you think that we probably shouldn't compare anybody to Trout.


What about (Kevin) Bass?


Who do you think you are, Meghan Trainor?
   40. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: November 14, 2017 at 10:45 AM (#5575856)
Tim Salmon is a more direct comp.
   41. Booey Posted: November 14, 2017 at 10:54 AM (#5575865)
So how does everyone think Bellinger and Judge will do next year? I think they both caught the league off guard a bit and will be pitched differently going forward, so I'm guessing about 32 homers for Bellinger and 43-ish for Judge (with an average around .260).
   42. Don August(us) Cesar Geronimo Berroa Posted: November 14, 2017 at 11:43 AM (#5575904)
In Canada, it's Marcus Stroman.


Joey Votto, underrated even in his homeland...
   43. snowles Posted: November 14, 2017 at 12:00 PM (#5575917)
Joey Votto, underrated even in his homeland...


You got that right. Most Canadians don't even know he exists, or that he's one of the best in baseball. He's pretty much a non-factor, which is a damn shame.

Votto worked the commentary desk during the playoffs for Sportsnet in Canada, and though he was clearly raw in terms of experience (and he almost had a coughing fit on more than one occasion, likely due to nerves) he was measured, thoughtful, articulate and every argument he made leaned towards modern analytics. It was incredibly refreshing, especially when he had to sit next to Gregg Zaun. Dude already has a promising second career lined up.
   44. Fernigal McGunnigle Posted: November 14, 2017 at 12:16 PM (#5575929)
Late to the game, but David Justice was the first guy I noticed take a jump when he got to MLB. In 1989 he had a 789 OPS in Richmond (plus 644 in 56 MLB PAs), then in 1990 went 908 in Atlanta. He fell back a bit after that, but was always a better in the majors than he had been in the high minors.
   45. The Yankee Clapper Posted: November 14, 2017 at 12:57 PM (#5575958)
So how does everyone think Bellinger and Judge will do next year? I think they both caught the league off guard a bit and will be pitched differently going forward, so I'm guessing about 32 homers for Bellinger and 43-ish for Judge (with an average around .260).

Judge's 6-week slump introduced some variability into the calculation, but he did bounce back with September being his best month of the season. Judge is such a unique player that we should probably be cautious on any predictions, but comparing him to other rookies in categories such as HRs or WAR, you don't see any real flukes in the leaders there. Quite the opposite, Judge is in elite company, and … dare I say it … he could get better. Or not. The upside could be extremely entertaining, and I'd think the Yanks would set a new Yankee Stadium attendance record, with corresponding TV ratings, if Judge surpasses his rookie campaign. I'll take the over on Judge since it would be a lot more fun.
   46. BDC Posted: November 14, 2017 at 01:13 PM (#5575975)
Justice is another good example, thanks Fernigal.
   47. dlf Posted: November 14, 2017 at 01:27 PM (#5575986)
It is surface level, but I think of Ryan Howard as a borderline comp for Aaron Judge. Both came up later in life than do most star players. Howard was so good in half a season at age 25 that he won ROY; Judge just finished his age 25 season. At age 26, Howard had his MVP year which comes very close to Judge's season: OBA/SLG/OPS+ lines of 425/659/167 vs. 422/627/171. Both K'd a metric crap ton and both walked over 100 times although Judge had a bit more of both. Howard scored or drove in 153, Judge 155. Jumbling these up, the two had 25 and 24 doubles, 3 and 1 triples, and 58 and 52 homers. Judge is certainly faster, but before the Achilles injury, Howard wasn't a sloth. Off the field, they both were massively popular when they first came up.

Howard, of course, had several other very good - albeit not as good as popular media would have it - seasons after his MVP year that matches so well for Judge's campaign. But none were up to that standard. His BA fell 30 points almost immediately and his walks started decreasing pretty significantly before he reached his late 20s. At the end of the day, Howard was a disappointment, but Yankee fans should still probably take the under on 380+ career homers and nearly 1200 ribbies as a lot can happen no just limited to pitchers finding a big hole in a 6'7" strike zone.
   48. Hank G. Posted: November 14, 2017 at 02:23 PM (#5576068)
Judge and Mike Trout are the same age. Trout has been doing this for six seasons. Makes you think.


He’s also half a year older than Bryce Harper. I was wondering about that during the season. Did someone make a mistake not promoting Judge earlier, or did it just take this long for him to figure things out?

Also, what is the probable career path for someone is a superstar rookie at age 25? I would think he would be at a disadvantage as far as career to someone who makes the major leagues at 20 or 21.
   49. Hank G. Posted: November 14, 2017 at 02:33 PM (#5576082)
It is surface level, but I think of Ryan Howard as a borderline comp for Aaron Judge. Both came up later in life than do most star players. Howard was so good in half a season at age 25 that he won ROY; Judge just finished his age 25 season. At age 26, Howard had his MVP year which comes very close to Judge's season: OBA/SLG/OPS+ lines of 425/659/167 vs. 422/627/171.


Of course, Judge’s rookie season was quite a bit better (8.1 WAR) than Ryan’s MVP season (5.2 WAR). Part of that was defense and positional adjustment, but Judge was still better just on offense with 173 wRC+ to Howard’s 162.

Howard only had two more seasons where, by WAR, he was above average. Let’s hope for Judge sake that the comparison is superficial.
   50. Baldrick Posted: November 14, 2017 at 02:33 PM (#5576083)
Also, what is the probable career path for someone is a superstar rookie at age 25? I would think he would be at a disadvantage as far as career to someone who makes the major leagues at 20 or 21.

There aren't many analogs. This is the list of guys with 5+ WAR in their rookie season, age 25 and up.
                                                   
Rk                    Player WAR/pos From   Age RBI
1                Aaron Judge     8.1 2017 25-25 114
2    Ichiro Suzuki (RoY-1st)     7.7 2001 27-27  69
3       Tony Oliva (RoY-1st)     6.8 1964 25-25  94
4     Kenny Lofton (RoY-2nd)     6.6 1992 25-25  42
5    Mitchell Page (RoY-2nd)     6.0 1977 25-25  75
6                   Lew Ford     5.6 2003 26-27  87
7       Jose Abreu (RoY-1st)     5.5 2014 27-27 107
8    Kevin Seitzer (RoY-2nd)     5.5 1987 25-25  83
9    Minnie Minoso (RoY-2nd)     5.5 1951 25-25  76
10                  Al Rosen     5.4 1949 25-26 121
11     Jimmie Hall (RoY-3rd)     5.4 1963 25-25  80
12              Joe Ferguson     5.4 1972 25-26  93
13              Eddie Foster     5.4 1912 25-25  70
14                Ralph Garr     5.2 1971 25-25  44
15            Dale Alexander     5.1 1929 26-26 137
16            Dutch Zwilling     5.1 1914 25-25  95
17      Chris Sabo (RoY-1st)     5.1 1988 26-26  44
18             Freddy Parent     5.0 1901 25-25  59


Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 11/14/2017.
   51. Booey Posted: November 14, 2017 at 02:42 PM (#5576090)
I'll take the over on Judge since it would be a lot more fun.


I certainly don't think Judge is a fluke, by any means. I think he'll match or surpass his rookie year again at some point. It just seems like with most the best rookie years in recent memory the player regressed a little bit the next season before bouncing back again.
   52. BDC Posted: November 14, 2017 at 02:48 PM (#5576095)
As Baldrick's list shows, most great ≥25-year-old rookies have had some extrinsic reason they were rookies at such a late age: they were playing earlier in the Negro Leagues (Robinson and Campanella and Irvin would be further down the list), or Japan, or Cuba; fighting World War 2; playing college basketball in the case of Kenny Lofton.

Guys who were just working their way up through the minor leagues (often after baseball in college) and had great rookie seasons at 25 or older include Page, Seitzer, Garr, and Sabo – actually by the time you get down to Sabo, even though he had 5 WAR and won the ROY at age 26, I am not sure "great" really applies anymore. Sabo batted .271 as a rookie with 11 HR and 44 RBI.

   53. TDF didn't lie, he just didn't remember Posted: November 14, 2017 at 02:50 PM (#5576099)
Judge's BABIP last year was .357; only 2 active players (500+ PA) have a higher career BABIP; his career BABIP is 19th highest among active players. I have a feeling he's due for a big drop off next year.
   54. DavidFoss Posted: November 14, 2017 at 03:11 PM (#5576120)
Most career WAR with a debut age 25 or later:
name_common           minYr   maxYr  totWAR  
-------------------  ------  ------  --------
Jackie Robinson          28      37      61.5
Ichiro Suzuki            27      43      59.6
Bob Johnson              27      39      57.2
Jimmy Collins            25      38      53.2
Sam Rice                 25      44      52.8
Earl Averill             27      39      48.0
Sam Thompson             25      46      44.3
Ben Zobrist              25      36      42.9
Dolph Camilli            26      38      42.8
Ken Williams             25      39      42.6
Earle Combs              25      36      42.5
Davey Lopes              27      42      42.2
Roy Thomas               25      37      40.2
George Gore              25      38      39.8
Maury Wills              26      39      39.5 


Lower down are some players with MVP-type years: Campanella, Cravath, Josh Hamilton, Tip O'Neill, Elston Howard, Monte Irvin, Hafner?

Judge got month in playing at age 24. With an age 24 start that adds Boggs, Edgar, Lofton, Utley and Ken Boyer ahead of Jackie above.
   55. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: November 14, 2017 at 03:25 PM (#5576141)
Judge and Mike Trout are the same age. Trout has been doing this for six seasons. Makes you think.

He’s also half a year older than Bryce Harper. I was wondering about that during the season. Did someone make a mistake not promoting Judge earlier, or did it just take this long for him to figure things out?


He was signed after college in 2013 at the age of 21, and began his pro career the next year. As others have said, he's old for a rookie but not that old.
   56. The Yankee Clapper Posted: November 14, 2017 at 03:27 PM (#5576145)
Did someone make a mistake not promoting Judge earlier, or did it just take this long for him to figure things out?

I think it's the latter. Judge was drafted by Oakland in the 31st round out of high school, didn't sign, went to college and was drafted by the Yankees in the 1st round (32nd overall) in 2013. Moved up 2 levels in both 2014 & 2015, before making The Show in 2016. Seems like a kid who needed some time to develop, but not that much once he started professional ball. Maybe it's related to his size & getting all the moving parts synched up to effectively cover his massive strike zone. I wonder if teams will now be more apt to consider future Judge-sized prospects, and be more patient in their development, in hopes of producing similar results. Not that many out there, but I'd try to find them if I were a GM; same with the teeny tiny terror tot types - think outside the box.
   57. Captain Supporter Posted: November 14, 2017 at 05:05 PM (#5576241)
You could make the argument that no one who strikes out 37 games in a row should be ROTY


You could make that argument, but you can't make it and expected to be taken as someone who knows anything at all about baseball.
   58. Walt Davis Posted: November 14, 2017 at 05:20 PM (#5576252)
To be clear, I don't think anybody would project Judge to continue at this level. Sure, he's very likely to drop off, especially in BA terms (the high Ks, the high BABIP). But whack his BA by 30 points which will bring down his OBP by about 30 points and his SLG by as much as 70 points (substantially less if we mostly whack his BABIP not his BA) and he's still at 255/390/550 which would have been a 144 OPS+ last year -- i.e. the reduced Judge is Bellinger 2017. (B-R's Marcel puts him at a 150 OPS+ but I have no idea how it works when there's not 3 years of ML data.) He probably can't sustain a 300 ISO for very long and maybe that leads to pitchers challenging him a bit more and walking him less and maybe it's more 255/360/520 -- still a 128 OPS+ ... or he goes full Adam Dunn as a hitter who had a 121 OPS+ from ages 26-32. We're approaching worst-case scenario here. (Dunn of course was a disaster from a WAR perspective because of historically awful Rfield which could happen to Judge too but probably not that bad.)

So it's not that I have any expectation that Judge will be one of the better peak hitters of the last 30 years or so ... it's plausible but not expected. It's that his 170 OPS+ and 8 WAR puts him in rare company at any age, company that suggests his expected outcome is probably along the lines of Jack Clark (140 OPS+, 33 WAR post-25) or Delgado (144, 42) or McGriff (131 OPS+, 38 WAR), possibly in fewer PAs given he's a late bloomer.

Sure, you probably don't want Judge past age 32-33 ... of course we probably won't want Bellinger past age 32-33 either although his early start might make him a better bet at this point. But the next 7 years and 30-35 WAR of Judge ... sign me up.

With Bellinger you have to run a similar exercise. We seem to never like to admit it but, just like Judge, when you see a young rookie post a 140 OPS+, the safest assumption until he establishes his "true" level, is to regress that towards the mean -- i.e. he's a talented hitter who had more things go right than wrong this year. His true talent is probably something more like a 120-125 OPS+. You might expect him to improve from that because he's so young but he's probably not going to improve much past the point where his true talent catches up to his rookie performance. That is, Bellinger peaking around a 140 OPS+ would still be a good, I suspect better than expected, outcome. I'll leave it to the actual projectors but I'm guessing that, for the years they would both be playing, Judge right now will always project as the better player than Bellinger ... Bellinger obviously has the better chance at playing for 15 more years than Judge does.

To put it another way, even with the money issue set aside, I'm not entirely sure you wouldn't rather have Judge ages 26-35 than Stanton's age 28-37. I'm pretty sure it still comes out Stanton from a pure baseball perspective because of his track record but Stanton's career line to date is 268/360/554, 146 OPS+ which is very much in line with our reduced Judge. Stanton is probably a bit better than that right now and will stay there for a few years, then return to his career level in his early 30s then probably drop below it in his mid-30s ... so we can probably expect him to post that sort of aggregate line over the next 10 years. I'm not sure Judge's projection over the next 10 years is much worse than that and he's two years younger than Stanton. For what it's worth, B-R's Marcel puts Judge at 150 OPS+, Stanton at 143 (assuming 2017 context). My gut says to regress Judge more and Stanton less but reversing those projections doesn't change the picture much. (Standard Marcel doesn't have the extra regression factor.)
   59. Walt Davis Posted: November 14, 2017 at 05:45 PM (#5576275)
On Judge's late start ... it's an important point as analysis suggests that late bloomers tend to have shorter careers post-25 (or whatever). Well, such is my memory of stuff analysts have said. But it seems not that unusual for this type of hitter.

Thome got many small bits of playing time very young, he wasn't fully in the majors until 23 and not FT until 23-24 (1994 was his age 23 year, it's a bit hard to tell to what extent he was platooned). Frank Thomas went to college (not even drafted out of HS it seems) ... obviously he was an amazing hitter and flew through the minors, FT at 23 but still he wasn't in the majors at 20-21. Delgado of course started as a C, got some PT at very young but didn't become full-time until 24 (with a 112 OPS+). R Howard has already been mentioned. Giambi got 200 PAs at 24 then FT at 25. Stargell wasn't in the majors for good until 23, didn't crack 500 PA in a season until 25. It was probably more Giants' stupidity and Cepeda's presence but McCovey didn't crack 500 PA until 25 (but in the majors young). F Howard didn't crack 500 until 25.

Some guys like this (J Clark, Boog Powell were two I checked) did get an early start and most of the guys above had a reasonable chunk of PT prior to 25. But it's unlikely that 600 PA spread across ages 23-24 tells us much about the underlying potential of those players relative to Judge -- it probably tells us something but I doubt it's enough to shave more than a couple of WAR off of Judge's longer-term projection.
   60. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: November 14, 2017 at 05:51 PM (#5576277)
Yeah, makes you think that we probably shouldn't compare anybody to Trout.

What about (Kevin) Bass?

Tim Salmon is a more direct comp.



Trout reminds me of a more developed Preacher Roe.
   61. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: November 14, 2017 at 05:55 PM (#5576282)
Ryan Howard as a borderline comp for Aaron Judge.


As a Red Sox fan I approve of this comp and career trajectory for Mr. Judge.

However as a baseball fan, I'd be disappointed not to see more amazing things.

I know some guys take awhile to figure stuff out, but c'mon am I the only one who want to pull Judge aside and say "WTF have you been doing these last 3 years dude? Surely you could've started hitting like this when you were 22?"

   62. Greg K Posted: November 14, 2017 at 06:26 PM (#5576293)
Bellinger is the Dodgers' 18th Rookie of the Year

I assume it was mentioned further up (too lazy to read the thread), but wasn't there a run in the mid to late 90s where a Dodger won Rookie of the Year like 18 times in a row?
   63. Satan Says Posted: November 14, 2017 at 07:45 PM (#5576329)
How much does Judge benefit playing half his games in NYS?

I very much like Judge, but Bellinger is the best bet longterm.
   64. Satan Says Posted: November 14, 2017 at 08:07 PM (#5576342)
Through age 25, Stanton leads Judge 25-7.7 in career WAR. What are the odds he covers that ground? What are the odds he doesn't lose significant WAR to injury?

Judge follows up with a couple more 7+ WAR seasons, now you're talkin'.
   65. Satan Says Posted: November 14, 2017 at 08:09 PM (#5576343)
Career WAR through age 25:

Aaron Judge 7.7
Mike Trout 55.2

Yowsa.
   66. Jose is an Absurd Doubles Machine Posted: November 14, 2017 at 09:34 PM (#5576377)
Judge fascinates me. The high BABIP/high K rate just seem like an unsustainable combination. It seems like tomdo that he has to either swing and miss or barrel up every time, no little dribblers. As noted he walks enough and of course the homers make him unlikely to completely tank. I think McGwire is probably a good comp (and that ain’t bad) with the occasional big season but the occasional .230 season. Healthy he’s probably a consistent 40 home run guy though so it’s not like he’s going to be terrible.

If he can get the K rate down without too many sacrifices, dear god that’s terrifying.
   67. Cooper Nielson Posted: November 14, 2017 at 10:20 PM (#5576393)
Yeah, makes you think that we probably shouldn't compare anybody to Trout.

What about (Kevin) Bass?

Tim Salmon is a more direct comp.

Trout reminds me of a more developed Preacher Roe.


Mike Carp was another guy who emerged (surfaced?) at 25.
   68. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: November 14, 2017 at 10:32 PM (#5576397)
IIRC, Judge's six week slump projected to something like 35 HR and 140 BB per 150 games. Like I said, he's a good player if he hits a buck ninety. He's also an all-star if he hits .220, and an MVP candidate if he hits .250. The BABIP probably isn't sustainable, but it isn't necessary either. I know it's become fashionable to rag on TTO around here lately, but the fact is it still works.
   69. Jarrod HypnerotomachiaPoliphili (TeddyF.Ballgame) Posted: November 15, 2017 at 01:18 AM (#5576438)
Looking at Baldrick's list in post 50, I have to ask: how the heck did Pat Listach beat out Kenny Lofton for ROY in 1992?
   70. SoSH U at work Posted: November 15, 2017 at 01:50 AM (#5576445)
Looking at Baldrick's list in post 50, I have to ask: how the heck did Pat Listach beat out Kenny Lofton for ROY in 1992?


Listach had a legitimately excellent rookie season - a 99 OPS+ campaign from a decent-fielding shortstop. It was a 4.4 WAR season, so I'm sure it was better than a lot of ROY campaigns.

On top of that, the Brewers finished 92-70, which was a nine-win improvement over 1991 and pushed them to a surprising second-place finish, while the Indians were the pre-94 Indians. That was probably the bigger factor.
   71. The Good Face Posted: November 15, 2017 at 11:15 AM (#5576564)
Like I said, he's a good player if he hits a buck ninety. He's also an all-star if he hits .220, and an MVP candidate if he hits .250. The BABIP probably isn't sustainable, but it isn't necessary either. I know it's become fashionable to rag on TTO around here lately, but the fact is it still works.


Yeah, at this point it appears the most reasonable worst case scenario is something like a RH Joey Gallo who plays a good RF. That's not an all star, but would still be a nice player. I don't think he'll age particularly well, in that once his bat speed/plate coverage starts to slip even a little he'll struggle to make enough contact to justify a spot in the lineup, but that's unlikely to be a problem for a few years at least.
   72. BDC Posted: November 15, 2017 at 11:26 AM (#5576573)
The BABIP probably isn't sustainable, but it isn't necessary either. I know it's become fashionable to rag on TTO around here lately, but the fact is it still works

BABIP highs and lows would seem to matter less to the value of players like Judge than anyone else. He was at 42% of his 2017 plate appearances resulting in balls in play. The league average was 65%, and the next-lowest on the Yankees was Matt Holliday at 57%.

Joey Gallo, incidentally, was at 40%, lowest on the Rangers, too.
   73. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: November 15, 2017 at 11:36 AM (#5576577)
IIRC, Judge's six week slump projected to something like 35 HR and 140 BB per 150 games. Like I said, he's a good player if he hits a buck ninety. He's also an all-star if he hits .220, and an MVP candidate if he hits .250. The BABIP probably isn't sustainable, but it isn't necessary either. I know it's become fashionable to rag on TTO around here lately, but the fact is it still works.

Well, it works if you're Aaron Judge, who can drive a ball out of the park with less than maximum effort, and who can frighten pitchers into giving him walks rather than risking the alternative. Where it doesn't work so well is with the scores of lesser players who hit 15 or 20 HRs, strike out once a game, and don't frighten anyone but their own fans.
   74. shoewizard Posted: November 15, 2017 at 11:51 AM (#5576590)
Steamer projections are out

Judge.... .253/.368/.514 wOBA .370 132 wRC+ 14.8 Walk%, 30.5 K%, 6.0 HR%
Bellinger .251/.338/.512 wOBA .352 120 wRC+ 11.2 Walk%, 25.0 K%, 6.0 HR%

   75. Rally Posted: November 15, 2017 at 02:40 PM (#5576691)
Where it doesn't work so well is with the scores of lesser players who hit 15 or 20 HRs, strike out once a game, and don't frighten anyone but their own fans.


Wherever the league average falls about half the players will be below it. There seems to be no shortage of Paul DeJong types - not too many people heard of him before 2017, but in 2/3 of a season he hit 25 homers while striking out more than once per game. It's not just physical outliers like Judge and Stanton. Pretty much everybody is trying to go yard all the time, and about half of them are doing it well enough to help the team.
   76. BDC Posted: November 15, 2017 at 03:01 PM (#5576709)
drive a ball out of the park with less than maximum effort, and who can frighten pitchers into giving him walks

I dunno that it works that way. There have always been some batters with minimal power who drew lots of walks just by being selective (Ashburn types), and there have been others with impressive power who don't walk much (Kingman types). It takes all kinds, as Rally notes. You'd think Rougned Odor could frighten somebody into walking him now and then, but in the past two seasons he's had 63 home runs and 51 walks.
   77. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: November 15, 2017 at 03:18 PM (#5576722)
Well, it works if you're Aaron Judge, who can drive a ball out of the park with less than maximum effort, and who can frighten pitchers into giving him walks rather than risking the alternative. Where it doesn't work so well is with the scores of lesser players who hit 15 or 20 HRs, strike out once a game, and don't frighten anyone but their own fans.

I dunno that it works that way. There have always been some batters with minimal power who drew lots of walks just by being selective (Ashburn types), and there have been others with impressive power who don't walk much (Kingman types). It takes all kinds, as Rally notes. You'd think Rougned Odor could frighten somebody into walking him now and then, but in the past two seasons he's had 63 home runs and 51 walks.


Right, but the Richie Ashburn types also don't strike out 150+ times a year. The problem is with those who strike out like Judge/Kingman but hit 15 to 20 homers.
   78. PreservedFish Posted: November 15, 2017 at 03:27 PM (#5576737)
We had a good argument once about what statistic best approximates Fear Factor. How about TB/swing ?
   79. Rally Posted: November 15, 2017 at 03:34 PM (#5576742)
Right, but the Richie Ashburn types also don't strike out 150+ times a year. The problem is with those who strike out like Judge/Kingman but hit 15 to 20 homers.


That describes guys like Freddy Galvis or Tim Anderson. They were bad hitters last year. I don't get why this is a problem - somebody is going to end up being below average.

It's not like Galvis or Anderson could be expected to put up Ashburn's stat line if they would just give up the big swing and try a different style. The best you could probably hope for asking a player like that to forget the longball and just make contact would probably be a bad hitter from Ashburn's era, someone like Roy McMillan or Bobby Richardson. And that's assuming they don't just fall flat on their face and hit .180 without any power because they are trying to do something they can't.
   80. Ziggy: The Platonic Form of Russell Branyan Posted: November 15, 2017 at 03:34 PM (#5576743)
I don't have anything to contribute, but this: "Trout reminds me of a more developed Preacher Roe" needs a primey.
   81. Khrushin it bro Posted: November 15, 2017 at 04:12 PM (#5576791)
I liked this one haha.

Mike Carp was another guy who emerged (surfaced?) at 25.
   82. PreservedFish Posted: November 15, 2017 at 04:42 PM (#5576806)
Milt Cuyler had a chance for a Trout-like future, too.
   83. Walt Davis Posted: November 16, 2017 at 12:39 AM (#5577042)
Through age 25, Stanton leads Judge 25-7.7 in career WAR. What are the odds he covers that ground? What are the odds he doesn't lose significant WAR to injury?

I'm not even sure what this is supposed to mean. My comp of Judge and Stanton is about what they do from here on out. Comparing what Stanton has done to what Judge has done is pointless.

Judge.... .253/.368/.514 wOBA .370 132 wRC+ 14.8 Walk%, 30.5 K%, 6.0 HR%
Bellinger .251/.338/.512 wOBA .352 120 wRC+ 11.2 Walk%, 25.0 K%, 6.0 HR%


Stanton ... 280/374/602 wOBA 400, 149 wRC+

I'll definitely take the over on Judge, especially that ISO. But sure, Stanton's projecting better. Stanton's BA looks a bit high but not a big deal.

Of course I'm not sure we can trust a system that projects David Ortiz to go 0 for 1 and post a 129 wRC+. :-)
   84. Walt Davis Posted: November 16, 2017 at 01:05 AM (#5577047)
2017, 15-25 HR, 25%+ K/PA, qualified season**, by Rbat,

Chris Taylor 19
Tim Beckham 7.5
Javy Baez 0
Byron Buxton -6
Trevor Story -9
Tim Anderson -14

So a 2017 mystery, a 2B/SS, a 2B/SS, an other-worldly CF, a SS and a SS. Remember Rbat is relative to average so it's not really until we get to Story that we're even concerned. MI and CF can hit however they want as long as they stay close enough to average that Rpos and Rfield make them valuable. Even Story ended up with 1 WAA.

** I went for qualified season because there were a fair number of guys like DeJong ... 25 HR in 415 PA is a slugger (35-40 over a full season). He probably won't repeat it but nobody's ever gonna complain about an IF who hits 35-40 bombs even if he Ks 250 times. There were probably a few guys in there that I'd have wanted to include but it's a pain cuz I can't search on both K/PA and HR/PA in P-I.

But even removing that criterion, you still get mainly C, MI and CF who are producing at least near-average Rbat. The main problems here were Grichuk, Holliday, Jorge Bonifacio (an OF), Moss, CJ Cron... then there are four potentially problematic defensive guys -- Keon Broxton (he added bad CF defense), Anderson (bad SS defense) and Austin Hedges (solid C defense but a whopping -17 Rbat in 417 PA is hard to overcome).

So really it's four whole guys committing the horrible crime of wailing at the ball when they shouldn't, the problem being they also don't play good defense or, in Hedges' case, just really killed themselves with the bat. Then there are 5 "sluggers" whose problem is they didn't slug enough for their position (in Holliday's case due to age). But even if you condemned everybody the search turns up because everybody knows that for some reason a 2B the size of Hank Aaron shouldn't be trying to hit 15-20 HRs a year, you're still only talking about 28 players.

So sure, it would be better if Javy Baez magically started hitting like Lou Whitaker. But, y'know, that ain't gonna happen and it wasn't gonna happen in an earlier era and it wasn't gonna happen if the Cubs had appropriately chastised him at 18. He, and a lot of these guys, are glove-first players with a bit of pop. That's a perfectly fine thing to be.

Now there are 7 guys, none qualified, who K'd 25% of the time and hit fewer than 15 HRs. Brad Miller and Jonathan Villar have some explaining to do. So do Yan Gomes and Martin Maldonado but they are Cs.


   85. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: November 16, 2017 at 10:28 AM (#5577178)
Now there are 7 guys, none qualified, who K'd 25% of the time and hit fewer than 15 HRs.


And that's probably why none of them qualified.
   86. Walt Davis Posted: November 17, 2017 at 09:25 PM (#5578289)
And that's probably why none of them qualified.

Yes, one would think so. But 7 part-time players does not justify the teeth-gnashing we sometimes see around here about all these puny MIs K'ing 25% of the time trying to hit HRs when they should be choking up like Felix Millan.

Even for somebody like Tim Anderson, technically speaking his big problem isn't his K-rate, it's his historically awful walk rate. With just a league-average walk rate (and everything else magically the same), he'd have about a 95 OPS+ and 2.2+ oWAR ... then we could talk about his second biggest problem which was defense (at least according to Rfield this year). So sure, SSs who K a lot, never walk, have an average BA and play poor defense are below-average players even if they can hit 1 HR every 35-40 PA. Not swinging for the fences can't hurt at this point it's not gonna help a lot if he can't tell the difference between a ball and a strike.**

His walk rate was 2.2% this year, 2.5% career with a 276 OBP this year. Even Ozzie Guillen managed 3.4% for his career.

** Still it's a fairly thin line between him and Javy Baez as hitters. But Javy's HR/PA is about 50% higher and his BB/PA is double.

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

News

All News | Prime News

Old-School Newsstand


BBTF Partner

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Guts
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogOTP 13 November 2017: Politics, race now touching every sport
(1997 - 10:44am, Nov 19)
Last: ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick

NewsblogJudge and Altuve | Articles | Bill James Online
(5 - 10:22am, Nov 19)
Last: Blanks for Nothing, Larvell

NewsblogOT - NBA 2017-2018 Tip-off Thread
(1414 - 10:16am, Nov 19)
Last: NJ in NY (Now with Baby!)

NewsblogMore on WAR – Joe Blogs – Medium
(1 - 9:44am, Nov 19)
Last: Captain Supporter

NewsblogOT: Wrestling Thread November 2014
(2102 - 8:32am, Nov 19)
Last: Chokeland Bill

NewsblogOT - November* 2017 College Football thread
(182 - 1:53am, Nov 19)
Last: Lance Reddick! Lance him!

NewsblogHow an Astros player helped high-school kids have a cool World Series celebration
(1 - 12:20am, Nov 19)
Last: ajnrules

Hall of MeritMock 2018 Modern Baseball Committee Hall of Fame Ballot
(76 - 11:33pm, Nov 18)
Last: robd4701

NewsblogOT: Winter Soccer Thread
(197 - 10:58pm, Nov 18)
Last: SPICEY WITH A SIDE OF BEER ON A BABYYYYYYY

NewsblogThe Eric Hosmer Dilemma | FanGraphs Baseball
(37 - 9:34pm, Nov 18)
Last: 6 - 4 - 3

Hall of Merit2018 Hall of Merit Ballot Discussion
(240 - 5:49pm, Nov 18)
Last: The Honorable Ardo

NewsblogStanton, Altuve capture first MVP Awards | MVP
(51 - 4:35pm, Nov 18)
Last: Lance Reddick! Lance him!

NewsblogJim Palmer on Mark Belanger and Omar Vizquel: The Hardball Times
(98 - 4:33pm, Nov 18)
Last: Walt Davis

NewsblogFangraphs: Let's Make One Thing Absolutely Clear About Aaron Judge
(22 - 3:42pm, Nov 18)
Last: Walt Davis

NewsblogThe story of Alex Anthopoulos: From tragedy to prodigy to Braves GM
(1 - 8:30am, Nov 18)
Last: bfan

Page rendered in 0.7101 seconds
47 querie(s) executed