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1. Walt Davis Posted: August 30, 2009 at 07:39 PM (#3309230)For another side, see Ozzie Guillen.
The difference with Larry Dierker was that his knowledge of the players and the game was well-known by everyone in the Houston area. I don't recall getting the same vibe from Bagwell in his playing days. There is a huge difference between being "respected and well-liked" and "assessing and motivating players." How many first basemen become managers, anyway?
Gil Hodges was the first name that popped into my mind.
DB
I don't know why writers and fans seem to always call for a popular ex-player, usually with no coaching experience, to manage the team. Ryne Sandberg should manage the Cubs. George Brett should manage the Royals. How many times has this worked? Ozzie Guillen at least had a pretty decent coaching resume before he was hired. Pete Rose was a decent manager I suppose. Did Lou Piniella go straight from playing to managing or did he coach some first?
I guess the example I think of most is Magic Johnson - coach the team for 30 some games, then get bored with crappy players and go back to playing golf.
Would there really be a buzz for Bagwell as skipper? How long would that last? A day or two?
This seems to happen literally about 75% of the time with European soccer teams. And that's a situation where the manager is usually also the person who picks all the players and negotiates with other teams to acquire them. Seems really dumb.
Mickey Vernon preceded Gil by a coupla/three years in D.C.
Is Rusty Staub available? I don't anything about him other than he has a great baseball name ... but sports page column inches have been filled will much less substantial stuff than that.
man, he's gotta be about 80 by now...
::goes to check::
hmmm... surprisingly, only 65.
Walt, I want a second opinion on that. Lisa - are you seeing this?
- oh it would go over BIG with the fans. and they would want biggio as his bench coach too
like bagwell has ANY idea how to do anything in a dugout but throw his weight around. he has never managed a thing in his life, has wandered in and out for number retiring day/booblehead day, etc. big deal. actually, he and biggio managed to get 3 managers fired, including dierker (who will never manage again) and it would serve them right to get thrown into the fire.
amusement
the honey moon wouldn't last real too long
Cecil Cooper?
Although he kinda stumbled into it.
he hasn't had anything to do with baseball for 15 or so years, best i know, but i have heard some stuff about bogar - he at least has had experience with both coaching and managing - and actually, i'm not sure why he left the astros Organization at all - guess they didn't want to promote him again.
he'd certainly fit with the ex-stro luuuvvv, but he wasn't exactly a hero. which would probably make him a better manager. hey, he had success with the astros low minor league teams and no one has since he left.
given the absolutely HORRIBLE manger/coaches we have now, don't see how it could get much worse. well, we could get buddy bell/don baylor/tony muser...
- as for cecil cooper, he didn't stumble into nothin - bud selig, who drayton mclane drops on his knees in front of to, uh, worship him, "recommended" cecil for the job. so naturally, drayton obeyed
To be fair to Trammell, there wasn't a ton of talent and what they did have was young.
Torre is a decent manager and was a very good player. (Not a huge Torre fan after seeing how he destroys relievers careers, but he thoroughly outmanaged Cox in the 96 WS.)
John McGraw obviously.
Cap Anson.
Bill Terry
Tris Speaker
Pie Traynor
Red Schoendiesnt
Ty Cobb
Every one of these guys was over .500 as a manager. Granted, some of them had limited tenures as managers. But it is true that no real star player in the last 50 years has been a highly successful manager.
Unless you count Mike Scioscia as a 'star'. Or Dusty. Or Felipe Alou.
I would consider those guys all good players in their day obviously. But not "stars".
He retired in 1984 and was manager of the Yankees in 1986. If he had coaching experience, he didn't have much of it - apparently he was the batting coach for the Yankees for the 1985 season, but that's it.
Torre? Not a HOF player, but he was more of a star than those other guys. Won an MVP. 9-time all star.
Based on what I read about Ted's time at the helm, I think that's an appropriate typo.
Granted, Hargrove's relative level of stardom says more about the Indians of the 60's, 70's, and 80's than it does about his ability, but he seems to fit the bill of a successful popular player who went on to very successfully manage his old team. He's also a first baseman who became a manager. Two birds with one stone.
Tho I suppose he'd have to retire from the Dodgers first.
Sure, but in European soccer, you need some paper qualifications / coaching certificate from the governing body to manage. You are required to sit for various coaching courses.
Exceptions are sometimes granted for ex-players who don't yet have those coaching certificates; but, those exceptions are temporary, the manager is required to sit for those courses quickly.
Also, the ex-players often do have some experience as an assistant manager / coach.
And nowadays, it is becoming rare that the manager does the actual negotiations over financial details. There usually is someone else to do that.
He was in that Simpsons episode.
Jose Lima has some time on his hands these days.
If the Astros called, Erin Anthony would listen.
Once you've had Phil Garner as manager, don't you have to have Denny Walling fill in as the platoon partner.
My father always believed Terry Puhl was "due." Due to manage the big team.
Heck, Casey Candaele's brother is a DIII football coach. That's got to be worth more than Bagwell's non-experience.
One former Astro leaps to the top of the list, based on his detailed theories about baseball--Joe Morgan.
That would be a terrific requirement for MLB.
I think he's still playing. He's like Rickey Henderson, if Rickey were a terrible pitcher instead of the greatest leadoff man of all time.
Throw Frank Robinson into the pool.
Hell, I have no idea who Yorman Bazardo and Bud Norris are, and they're apparently in the Astros' rotation already.
Frank's 74 years old today... prolly a bit fragile to be throwin' around...
That Rivera kid was sure washed up in a hurry.
While I think he's been a good manager, as he's often done a good job with dreadful teams, he's got a career 0.475 winning percentage, and has never made the playoffs in 17 chances (over 16 seasons). By the standards of actually winning things, he can't really be considered a success.
It's a little insulting to Rivera to give Torre credit for what he's become.
Well, he didn't (of course, it does make me wonder why Torre can't be given any credit for Torre's amazing run). Nonetheless, if you're going to point to Torre's reliever-destroying tendency, you do have to get over the Rivera hurdle.
Why? It's Torre's usage of him which allowed him to rack up all those saves, and his modified usage of him in the playoffs which has been a big part of Mo's legend.
Besides, if you're going to slap Torre around for things which go bad (his handling of Proctor), you also should give him at least some credit for things which go right (moving Rivera into the setup and closer roles, rather than just allowing him to kick around as a crappy fifth starter).
He was a helluva player and had the courage to bat ARod 8th. His use of the bullpen was key to their 96-00 run.
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