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Tuesday, July 31, 2012

Kaplan: Trio of suitors for Dempster

Baseball sources have confirmed to me that three teams are in play for Ryan Dempster and he will approve a deal to any of the three teams if the Cubs can agree on a suitable return in exchange for the veteran right-hander who is enjoying one of the best seasons of his career. The Los Angeles Dodgers, who have long been Dempster’s preferred destination will have to increase their offer as the Texas Rangers and New York Yankees have stepped up their pursuit over the last 48 hours. With Roy Oswalt having another poor performance on Monday evening, the Rangers have decided to upgrade their rotation and are looking at all available options including Dempster and Matt Garza.

Jim Furtado Posted: July 31, 2012 at 11:09 AM | 55 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: cubs, dodgers, rangers, trade rumors, yankees

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   1. zonk Posted: July 31, 2012 at 11:20 AM (#4196953)
Well, if I were Thed -- I think I'd ask for the OK in writing before I wasted any more time talking with any 'trio'.
   2. Chicago Joe Posted: July 31, 2012 at 11:22 AM (#4196956)
Maybe this was the plan all along. That Dempster is such a prankster.
   3. zonk Posted: July 31, 2012 at 11:24 AM (#4196958)
Reports now speculating that the Yanks aren't even in talks and that this might nothing but 'friendly leakage' to juice the LAD talks.
   4. charityslave is thinking about baseball Posted: July 31, 2012 at 11:31 AM (#4196970)
'friendly leakage'


Wait, does this have something to do with that g spot thingy? Because I heard that that was a myth.
   5. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: July 31, 2012 at 11:48 AM (#4196996)
kind of interesting reversal to the cc/harden acquisitions of days bygone when cubs fans immediately jumped on the harden trade as a 'take that milwaukee--you can't one up us"

now the crew has traded zack for decent stuff and the cubs are dealing with one arm behind their back because of the player

of course, none of the cubs who were chortling are here now. we all know that drill. success has a 1000 fathers and all that

hang in there guys. this will be over soon and then it's back to being hopeful
   6. Brian C Posted: July 31, 2012 at 11:57 AM (#4197003)
hang in there guys. this will be over soon and then it's back to being hopeful

Hey, who's not hopeful? They're 15-9 in July, Rizzo's dominating, Castro's starting to round back into form, and Casey Coleman's on his way back to finally assert himself as a top-of-the-rotation starter!
   7. zonk Posted: July 31, 2012 at 12:00 PM (#4197005)
kind of interesting reversal to the cc/harden acquisitions of days bygone when cubs fans immediately jumped on the harden trade as a 'take that milwaukee--you can't one up us"

now the crew has traded zack for decent stuff and the cubs are dealing with one arm behind their back because of the player

of course, none of the cubs who were chortling are here now. we all know that drill. success has a 1000 fathers and all that

hang in there guys. this will be over soon and then it's back to being hopeful


Watch, HW --- we're just 3 games behind you at this point ;-)
   8. Charles S. will not yield to this monkey court Posted: July 31, 2012 at 12:00 PM (#4197007)
This could be Dempster trying to save face with Cubs fans, many of whom* plan to boo the crap out of him if he starts tonight. Or this could, as Zonk says, be TheoJed trying to convince the Dodgers that they're in a dogfight. Either way, I believe exactly none of it.

*"Many of whom" = Me.
   9. Andere Richtingen Posted: July 31, 2012 at 12:01 PM (#4197008)
*"Many of whom" = Me.

Seriously?
   10. Brian C Posted: July 31, 2012 at 12:23 PM (#4197039)
Watch, HW --- we're just 3 games behind you at this point ;-)

Also this!
   11. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: July 31, 2012 at 12:44 PM (#4197082)
zonk/brian

wouldn't surprise me if the brewers just completely fold. i like the guys but the combination of trading zack and the bullpen in tatters has the team in a weird combination of apprehension and resignation.

if they had kept zack i could see the brewers going on a late season infuriating hot streak where they pull back over .500 near the end finishing 5 or so games out

but with greinke gone, marcum on the dl likely for the season, and the general disappointment of letting a great opportunity not just slip away but blow up in their faces i suspect guys will do what they do and winning will be a byproduct of guys being a bit selfish versus the goal.

hate to write it. but that is my gut instinct.
   12. Andere Richtingen Posted: July 31, 2012 at 12:45 PM (#4197085)
now the crew has traded zack for decent stuff and the cubs are dealing with one arm behind their back because of the player

And now that you point it out, I really like how the Cubs did in this trade (EDIT: the Maholm/Johnson trade) compared to what the Brewers got.
   13. Brian C Posted: July 31, 2012 at 12:50 PM (#4197093)
hate to write it. but that is my gut instinct.

You think if they that happens, they'll shitcan Roenicke? The guy seems like a great manager when things are going good and a terrible one when things aren't. (Well, I guess all managers seem that way but I suspect you know what I mean.)
   14. zonk Posted: July 31, 2012 at 12:53 PM (#4197100)
wouldn't surprise me if the brewers just completely fold. i like the guys but the combination of trading zack and the bullpen in tatters has the team in a weird combination of apprehension and resignation.

if they had kept zack i could see the brewers going on a late season infuriating hot streak where they pull back over .500 near the end finishing 5 or so games out

but with greinke gone, marcum on the dl likely for the season, and the general disappointment of letting a great opportunity not just slip away but blow up in their faces i suspect guys will do what they do and winning will be a byproduct of guys being a bit selfish versus the goal.

hate to write it. but that is my gut instinct.


I know you've got a bit of soft spot for Weeks, but even aside from the bullpen implosion -- to me, it was Weeks that really sunk the Crew this year.

A-Ram took a while to get going, but he always does. It took Roenicke some time to let Aoki play every day. But Weeks was nearly worthless for 3 months. He seems to have finally started hitting the last few days, and I know the bullpen has been comically bad since June -- but if I were to do the early post-mortem on the Brewers problems, my biggest stink eye is looking at Weeks. With Braun around and some nice complimentary pieces like Rameriz and Hart -- they didn't really even need him to bust out in a huge way -- they just needed him to pick up a bit of slack and he shat the bed but good.

   15. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: July 31, 2012 at 01:32 PM (#4197167)
zonk

weeks? c'mon. the brewers offense has been fine. sure a better weeks would have helped but in real terms what is the incremental impact? two games? maybe?

and who was going to replace weeks once gonzalez went down? izturis? taylor green?

there is no soft spot. this is simple math and logic. you don't dump a guy without a plan b and with gonzalez hurt the brewers plan b for second base was kind of taken. and the brewers were treading water while weeks struggled.

the season crashed and burned when the entire bullpen collapsed

weeks contributed but the centerpiece? not even close
   16. Andere Richtingen Posted: July 31, 2012 at 01:50 PM (#4197199)
Brewers runs scored per game in 2011/2012: 4.45/4.51. Runs given up: 3.94/4.68. Both the starting pitching and bullpen have gone south, but with a nine game swing in the Pythagorean between the end of last year and now, Harveys probably has a legitimate point about the bullpen.
   17. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: July 31, 2012 at 02:02 PM (#4197222)
if you want a guy who is escaping notice its randy wolf. boy that guy has stunk
   18. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: July 31, 2012 at 02:06 PM (#4197236)
the bullpen era is almost 5
   19. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: July 31, 2012 at 02:23 PM (#4197252)
if you want a guy who is escaping notice its randy wolf. boy that guy has stunk


Oh, I've (& others in my circle) have noticed.

the bullpen era is almost 5


and they still managed to 'save' one last night.
   20. zonk Posted: July 31, 2012 at 02:26 PM (#4197256)
It's entirely possible that what Weeks has done to my roto team is coloring my judgment...
   21. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: July 31, 2012 at 02:28 PM (#4197258)
mrams

what's your 2.5 cents on ron?
   22. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: July 31, 2012 at 02:54 PM (#4197282)
Bruce Levine is saying he was informed by Dempster that Ryan would accept a trade to the Dodgers, Yankees or Rangers.
   23. zonk Posted: July 31, 2012 at 03:01 PM (#4197291)
Bruce Levine is saying he was informed by Dempster that Ryan would accept a trade to the Dodgers, Yankees or Rangers.


Screw you, LAD, S-C-R-E-W Y-O-U!
   24. spike Posted: July 31, 2012 at 03:09 PM (#4197308)
Wait, does this have something to do with that g spot thingy?

Olestra, more likely.
   25. bfan Posted: July 31, 2012 at 03:20 PM (#4197319)
Bruce Levine is saying he was informed by Dempster that Ryan would accept a trade to the Dodgers, Yankees or Rangers.


And New York and Dallas are closer to Vancouver than Atlanta is?
   26. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: July 31, 2012 at 03:29 PM (#4197330)
•The Brewers now have 21 saves and 21 blown saves as a team

courtesy brewcrewball
   27. zonk Posted: July 31, 2012 at 03:34 PM (#4197345)


And New York and Dallas are closer to Vancouver than Atlanta is?


Ryan Dempster is straight-as-arrow-honest... he just can't read a map.
   28. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: July 31, 2012 at 03:57 PM (#4197376)
what's your 2.5 cents on ron?


Like many, annoyed with the whole bullpen usage and bunting, like a laminted play card held over his mouth a la Andy Reid. In fairness, that's a pretty big school of mgrs and frankly the arms have stunk. I don't typically saddle a manager with repeatedly poor execution on the mound. Some times your pen just stinks.

Since replacement managers must be the complete opposite of the fired disgraced manager (both in baseball and in business), he's been successful in that regard being the anti-Macha. I cannot believe there hasn't been a Nyjer Morgan caused meltdown/conflict, perhaps it is inevitable, but to me that's a fairly good barometer of how Roenicke handles the team. Now, too much of that leads not necessarily to complacency, but guys who are tempted to play with only themselves in mind.

I don't really see that, yet, but things could defintely spin further out of control, kind of like 2nd half of (most Yost seasons) '06 comes to mind when they were right around .500 at the 4th of July and stumbled a couple long streaks and much of it bullpen. In truth, I've been kind of checked out on this season since mid May, partly due to the little ones activities and work, but I'm inclined to support Roenicke barring future evidence.

Ron isn't Yost, which may be obvious, but it also says something else, it says he's a guy inclined to learn and perhaps reevaluate his approach.
   29. Brian C Posted: July 31, 2012 at 04:04 PM (#4197398)
Dempster to Texas, apparently.
   30. Kiko Sakata Posted: July 31, 2012 at 04:12 PM (#4197420)
And New York and Dallas are closer to Vancouver than Atlanta is?


Dallas is (Google Maps says by ~460 miles or so).
   31. Brian C Posted: July 31, 2012 at 04:23 PM (#4197441)
Evan Grant says Christian Villanueva and Kyle Hendricks to the Cubs for Dempster. Eh.
   32. zonk Posted: July 31, 2012 at 04:29 PM (#4197447)
Rosenthal says Christian Villanueva and Kyle Hendricks to the Cubs for Dempster. Eh.


I think that's better than a supp pick and certainly better than anything the Dodgers have to offer if neither Lee nor Webster were gonna happen. I like Villanueva a fair bit and while I don't know Hendricks well, he looks like he has pretty phenomenal control and a solid K rate.
   33. Spahn Insane Posted: July 31, 2012 at 04:30 PM (#4197448)
Just eyeballing the numbers for Villanueva and Hendricks, I really like this trade for the Cubs.
   34. Brian C Posted: July 31, 2012 at 04:43 PM (#4197480)
It's fine, I guess, and in line with what I expected before the dealing really got going, but it's a let down from the Delgado deal. Guess I had let myself believe that was the market for Dempster even though I damn well knew better.

But yes, it's clearly better than a compensatory pick.

Hendricks is certainly a curiosity with that extraordinary K/BB rate, but what's the upside for a guy like that?
   35. Andere Richtingen Posted: July 31, 2012 at 04:53 PM (#4197485)
I'm happy with it. It's value for two months of Dempster. I wish him well.

Also, a quick Orbitz search indicates no nonstop flights from ATL to YVR. Yes from DFW and of course many from NYC airports.
   36. They paved Misirlou, put up a parking lot Posted: July 31, 2012 at 04:54 PM (#4197486)
Hendricks is certainly a curiosity with that extraordinary K/BB rate, but what's the upside for a guy like that?


Curt Schilling?
   37. zonk Posted: July 31, 2012 at 04:54 PM (#4197487)
Hendricks is certainly a curiosity with that extraordinary K/BB rate, but what's the upside for a guy like that?


He's a 2nd time draftee - didn't sign out of HS, so this is just his 2nd pro season after getting taken by the Rangers out of Dartmouth. Sounds a bit like Chris Young, but that's probably just the ivy pedigree.

It's Villanueva I really like - I posted it in the omnibus thread, but here's Sickels talking about Villanueva this past offseason as a breakout candidate:

People who follow Rangers prospects closely are familiar with this guy, but he's still also has a under-the-radar somewhat nationally and deserves more attention than he's received. Signed out of Mexico in 2008, he demonstrated a fine power/speed game in the Sally League last year, hitting 17 homers and stealing 32 bases with an overall .278/.338/.465 line. Scouts like his swing and he has decent plate discipline, plus he's just 20 years old. He also has a very strong glove at third base, although the Rangers are crowded at that position and he may end up playing second base in the long run. Villanueva has an impressive combination of youth, tools, and skills and could break through in a big way this year.


His 2012 line making the jump to High A has been pretty much the same (285/356/421, with 19 2Bs and 10 HRs).

The Rangers are so stacked that I think especially with Hendricks, he's a bit old for A ball simply because there's no room at the higher level inns -- something that isn't the case with the Cubs.


   38. zonk Posted: July 31, 2012 at 05:14 PM (#4197509)
So, in the end --

The Cubs get

Christian Villanueva
Kyle Hendricks
Arodys Vizcaino
Jaye Chapman
Jake Brigham
possible PTBNL

for

Paul Maholm
Ryan Dempster
Reed Johnson
Geo Soto

I don't think that's a bad haul at all. It's not WOW level, but two legitimate top 100 prospects (albeit, one of them out for the season), a mildly interesting SP and a couple live bullpen arms.

Plus - you could still argue that their most valuable chit is still in-house and could be moved this offseason, or, still signed long-term.

With Rizzo hitting well, Barney rounding into a fine regular, and Castro -- even treading water -- the future isn't as gloomy as it was 6 months ago, I think.
   39. Andere Richtingen Posted: July 31, 2012 at 05:17 PM (#4197512)
Plus - you could still argue that their most valuable chit is still in-house and could be moved this offseason, or, still signed long-term.

Yeah, but clearly nobody wants Sor... Oh wait a minute, never mind.
   40. zonk Posted: July 31, 2012 at 05:18 PM (#4197514)
Yeah, but clearly nobody wants Sor... Oh wait a minute, never mind.


The Tigers do ;-)
   41. Andere Richtingen Posted: July 31, 2012 at 05:23 PM (#4197516)
And starting tonight for the Cubs... Casey Coleman!

The Cubs have had a .500 record since (EDIT: May 25th). So much for that!

EDIT AGAIN: That first time the Cubs were 15 games under .500, A.J. Burnett outdueled Ryan Dempster in a 1-0 Pirate win. Dempster went to 0-3.
   42. zonk Posted: July 31, 2012 at 05:28 PM (#4197518)
Casey Coleman is cosmic penance for all the mean things I've said about Dempster of late... still worth it, I think.
   43. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: July 31, 2012 at 05:38 PM (#4197528)
It's been too long since the Cubs had a supposedly promising starting pitcher who gave them absolutely no chance to win. They may have had some bad years recently, but the rotation has been mediocre-to-good. Aside from the brief periods when Juan Cruz and Carlos Marmol had not yet been sent to the bullpen, they haven't had someone like Casey Coleman since the triple threat of Ruben Quevedo, Micah Bowie, and Andrew Lorraine.
   44. Mess with the Meat, you get the Wad! Posted: July 31, 2012 at 05:41 PM (#4197529)
Do you not remwber last year? Ramon ortiz and rodrigo lopez both had starts for the cubs
   45. Spahn Insane Posted: July 31, 2012 at 05:48 PM (#4197534)
Ramon ortiz and rodrigo lopez both had starts for the cubs

Casey Coleman DREAMS of being as "good" as Lopez was last year.
   46. Brian C Posted: July 31, 2012 at 06:00 PM (#4197540)
Very odd situation where the active roster only has 21 players on it for now. We know Coleman and Castillo are on their way up - who else? I'm thinking that Jackson was pulled from yesterday's game in case Soriano got dealt (looked like he would be), and don't expect him to be up tonight. So ... Dave Sappelt, who's been not-terrible of late? He seems like the logical Reed Johnson successor. Maybe Chapman gets added to the pen?

There's an extra spot on the 40-man, too.
   47. Brian C Posted: July 31, 2012 at 06:02 PM (#4197542)
Now I see Muskat tweeted that Cardenas is at Wrigley ... makes no sense, but whatever.
   48. SouthSideRyan Posted: July 31, 2012 at 06:30 PM (#4197557)
Brett Jackson hasn't exactly been beating down the door to the majors.
   49. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: July 31, 2012 at 06:47 PM (#4197560)
Vitters might be worth a look at third base. It's not like he's good enough so that you worry about his service clock.
   50. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: July 31, 2012 at 08:19 PM (#4197625)
Casey Coleman update: one out, one grand slam thus far in tonight's start.
   51. McCoy Posted: July 31, 2012 at 09:41 PM (#4197671)
Casey settled down after the first and AJ has a no hitter going through 5
   52. Dan Posted: August 02, 2012 at 09:42 PM (#4199361)
7 runs in 4 innings for Dempster in his Rangers debut against the rival Angels.
   53. McCoy Posted: August 02, 2012 at 09:52 PM (#4199371)
That's just about what you'd expect from an NL Central pitcher facing an AL West team.
   54. Dan Posted: August 02, 2012 at 10:07 PM (#4199385)
Make that 8 runs in 4 2/3 innings, with 2 more runners left on base who were stranded after Robbie Ross relieved him.
   55. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: August 02, 2012 at 10:23 PM (#4199399)
Semi-interestingly, the Angels are the one team Dempster had never faced before. With this start, his career ERA against the AL West goes from 2.04 to 4.84.

Pretty great teammate to make that sort of sacrifice to his personal stats just so he can illustrate the importance of pitching to the score (currently 8-7).

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