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Thursday, December 12, 2013

Keith Olbermann: We Need A New MLB Hall of Fame

Everything was going along fine…until Gil Hodges (tosses stripped Jokers jacket into dumpster).

 

Repoz Posted: December 12, 2013 at 06:01 AM | 28 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: hall of fame, history

Reader Comments and Retorts

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Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. Steve Parris, Je t'aime Posted: December 12, 2013 at 07:57 AM (#4616487)
Well, I can see I haven't been missing anything from his new show.
   2. Lassus Posted: December 12, 2013 at 09:16 AM (#4616499)
maybe later
   3. Lassus Posted: December 12, 2013 at 09:32 AM (#4616513)
Keith Olbermann is a very smart man with a lot of excellent ideas and a lot of excellent arguments, arguments that completely I agree with, presented in an entertaining manner.

That being said, this is not one of those arguments, and it is shit like this that makes it absolutely impossible to stomach him. I haven't watched him do anything in about two or three years, and it is something like this that makes me positively fine with never watching him again as long as I live.

Good work, Keith.
   4. Mike Webber Posted: December 12, 2013 at 09:32 AM (#4616514)
Thumbs up from me.
   5. Lassus Posted: December 12, 2013 at 09:40 AM (#4616517)
MY FRIEND MARVIN MILLER

MY FRIEND JOE TORRE

Jesus.

I know, I know, I'm biased, but ick.
   6. TDF, situational idiot Posted: December 12, 2013 at 09:41 AM (#4616518)
OK, I give.

What about this makes Olbermann the Worst Person in the World? Does he not have a point about the rotating rules and makup of the Vet's Committee? Does he not have a point about LaRussa and Miller?
   7. Lassus Posted: December 12, 2013 at 09:50 AM (#4616523)
What about this makes Olbermann the Worst Person in the World? Does he not have a point about the rotating rules and makup of the Vet's Committee? Does he not have a point about LaRussa and Miller?

I'm reacting poorly, absolutely.

I can get into it more later, I'm at work.

I basically hate Olbermann. Sorry.
   8. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: December 12, 2013 at 09:55 AM (#4616526)
That being said, this is not one of those arguments, and it is #### like this that makes it absolutely impossible to stomach him. I haven't watched him do anything in about two or three years, and it is something like this that makes me positively fine with never watching him again as long as I live.

Ahem. He was all right at first, but then he went to far...

   9. Morty Causa Posted: December 12, 2013 at 10:01 AM (#4616530)
Certain specifics as favorites to one side, and of course ignoring the overheated presentation, this is well-argued, even cogent for the most part. The Hall of Fame is a joke. It's baseball fans, and especially BTF posters, version of crazy politics, JFK assassination, Roswell, we never landed on the moon, bogus birth certificates, and the like.
   10. Chris Fluit Posted: December 12, 2013 at 10:37 AM (#4616555)
What about this makes Olbermann the Worst Person in the World? Does he not have a point about the rotating rules and makup of the Vet's Committee? Does he not have a point about LaRussa and Miller?


The occasional cogent point is overwhelmed by the emotional and occasionally irrational rant. Yup, he has a point about the double standard of ignoring managers and executives who, at best, turned a blind eye to PEDs while the players who are suspected of using PEDs are publicly drawn and quartered (might be an exaggeration on my part). And yup, he has a point that Marvin Miller deserved to be elected long ago (even if a few vocal members of this board disagree). But he attributes malice to what is more likely incompetence or dysfunction. They didn't change the voting rules because Miller nearly got in. They changed the rules because nobody got in at all. And they didn't intentionally wait for Ron Santo to pass away before inducting him. Though they did institute an intentionally slow process that made that more likely to happen. Second, he resorts to unnecessary personal attacks. Why impugn the credentials of J.L. Wilkinson in order to make the case for Buck O'Neil? As the longtime owner of the Kansas City Monarchs, Wilkinson is a deserving Hall of Famer. And, finally, he tossed out Gil Hodges' name as another unfairly neglected player which kind of shows that his Hall of Fame would be as emotionally based- and therefore as inconsistent- as that of anyone else. Hodges may be the personal darling for a generation of (mostly New York area) fans but his statistical resume is weak. There are a lot of problems with the current Hall of Fame- which is why I participate in the Hall of Merit project- but Olbermann's off-his-rocker rant is not the best way to illuminate, diagnose or address them.

   11. Jolly Old St. Nick Still Gags in October Posted: December 12, 2013 at 10:39 AM (#4616559)
As usual with Olbermann, that was an entertaining mix of logic and hyperbole, but there was one passing comment that shouldn't go unchallenged, when Olbermann flashed the HoF plaque of Effa Manley along with a comment about "a white woman" pretending to be black, as if she were some sort of a con artist, rather than a woman who was raised in a black family with six black siblings, and who lived her entire life in the black community, which accepted her as black.

Art Rust put it very well when he wrote, "Identification is so difficult to pinpoint in this basically racist society we live in that whether Effa was really white or black seems ludicrous. After all, being black is also a state of mind, and apparently Effa thought so, too." The point isn't the accuracy of Olberman's comment, it's the nasty implication behind it that leaves a bad taste.
   12. Mickey Henry Mays Posted: December 12, 2013 at 10:54 AM (#4616572)
I can't watch it, but from the comments it sounds like Olbermann is once again going off the rails and among other things accusing people of racism. How original.
This guy almost makes Chris Matthews sound sane.
   13. Lassus Posted: December 12, 2013 at 11:40 AM (#4616618)
...when Olbermann flashed the HoF plaque of Effa Manley along with a comment about "a white woman" pretending to be black

It was exactly at this point I turned off the video and wrote my initial comment.
   14. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: December 12, 2013 at 11:52 AM (#4616633)
As usual with Olbermann, that was an entertaining mix of logic and hyperbole, but there was one passing comment that shouldn't go unchallenged, when Olbermann flashed the HoF plaque of Effa Manley along with a comment about "a white woman" pretending to be black, as if she were some sort of a con artist, rather than a woman who was raised in a black family with six black siblings, and who lived her entire life in the black community, which accepted her as black.

Does that mean that if she were still with us, she'd be allowed to use the N-word?

   15. Bitter Mouse Posted: December 12, 2013 at 11:56 AM (#4616637)
I did not WTFV.

I like the current Hall of Fame. I don't have a problem with messy and imperfect institutions, especially in non-critical areas like baseball. it makes life more interesting than a sterile perfect Hall would be,with rigorous and impeccable logic applied and the only discussions parsing that logic on the very fringes of the in/out line.

Give me a messy, emotional and flawed Hall of Fame which spawns a million discussions and has plenty of fun oddities and outrages for us to discuss forever.

As to Olbermann, I can take or leave him. And because life is too short I mostly leave him.
   16. Morty Causa Posted: December 12, 2013 at 01:40 PM (#4616766)
Wow, just wow.
   17. Baseballs Most Beloved Figure Posted: December 12, 2013 at 04:18 PM (#4616948)
Give me a messy, emotional and flawed Hall of Fame which spawns a million discussions and has plenty of fun oddities and outrages for us to discuss forever.
Hear, hear.
   18. Morty Causa Posted: December 12, 2013 at 05:00 PM (#4616991)
Just not messy and emotional commentary on that, although messy and emotional commentary on righteously expounding how one is above watching and listening to that commentary is copacetic. Ah, the rich pageantry of BTF life.
   19. booond Posted: December 12, 2013 at 05:14 PM (#4617007)
Did Rush get in, yet?
   20. Bitter Mouse Posted: December 12, 2013 at 05:21 PM (#4617014)
Just not messy and emotional commentary on that


As usual I am not following you Morty. Where in this thread am I against any commentary on anything? Where is the 'righteously expounding' anywhere? Maybe you are using my words but not responding to my post? Having a moment?

I am not clear at the "wow, just wow" either. You want a Vulcan Hall of Fame, with all logic? That's fine, but I don't.
   21. Shibal Posted: December 12, 2013 at 05:49 PM (#4617030)
I have found it is much easier on my mental health to treat the Hall of Fame selections like I treat the NFL pro bowl selections.

   22. Jay Z Posted: December 12, 2013 at 08:20 PM (#4617131)
I think the Baseball HOF is inferior to others not because of the people doing the deciding, but because of the model.

If you look at other HOFs, other honoring models, I think it's a lot more common to just pick a certain number of people every year. You pick your honorees, have your banquet, next year repeat. I don't really care what the level is, one, two, three a year. Just pick a level. New HOFers are starting and ending their careers every year; it should be a reality that the Hall is electing every year.

The HOF is not the US Constitution or the Bible. It is going to be constantly revised. You want to turn in a blank ballot, fine, we're electing people anyway. You don't like this candidate, fine, someone else is going in. Deal with it.

I just don't have time for the current setup any more.
   23. Fred Garvin is dead and Joe Biden is alive Posted: December 12, 2013 at 08:56 PM (#4617159)
I have to admit that I chuckled when they put up the picture of Woody Allen with the fake beard.
   24. Morty Causa Posted: December 12, 2013 at 09:15 PM (#4617171)
My favorite line from that movie: "How do you plead?" "Guilty. With an explanation."
   25. Baldrick Posted: December 12, 2013 at 09:18 PM (#4617176)
I think the Baseball HOF is inferior to others not because of the people doing the deciding, but because of the model.

I understand what you're saying, but...

The baseball HOF is pretty much the only HOF I can think of that a lot of people genuinely, emphatically, and vociferously care about. You could argue that this is in spite of - not because of - the way that it's organized. But still...the baseball HOF is definitely not "inferior to others."
   26. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: December 12, 2013 at 09:42 PM (#4617185)
But still...the baseball HOF is definitely not "inferior to others."


Yeah. I could be wrong because I'm definitely not the most unbiased source here, but I still think if you say "Hall of Fame" to most American sports fans, the first one they think of is baseball's.

   27. Jay Z Posted: December 12, 2013 at 10:32 PM (#4617201)
I understand what you're saying, but...

The baseball HOF is pretty much the only HOF I can think of that a lot of people genuinely, emphatically, and vociferously care about. You could argue that this is in spite of - not because of - the way that it's organized. But still...the baseball HOF is definitely not "inferior to others."


Their process of selecting the members is inferior to others, yes. They are the most famous. I don't care.

The relentless campaigning for Rice, for Blyleven, for Morris, I just don't need it. We always have a pope. We always have a President and Congress. We always have baseball MVPs, always a Oscar winner for Best Picture and all of the other categories. There is a forced accountability to all of that. Time marches on, make your decisions, have some accountability. Players are born, play, retire, die, every single year. The HOF should be honoring people every single year.

This asinine jockeying with the Veterans Committee that has been going on for a couple of decades, the campaigning, it is just too political for me to enjoy in a sport any more. Elect steroid guys, elect someone else. I don't care which. Make a decision and live with it. I can look at other sports, other institutions, and I don't respect this process.
   28. MuttsIdolCochrane Posted: December 12, 2013 at 11:48 PM (#4617228)
I know he's a polarizing figure politically, and maybe that's the reason for what seems like an onslaught of some kind of Keith hate. The points he made all had a degree of validity, and while he might have gone (as usual and in a quite entertaining manner) somewhat over the top at the end, the points he made about La Russa were not only dead on, but really did not go far enough. He did contribute to and support the growth of steroid use for years and in a big way and not too many journalists have the courage to even mention it. And like most hypocrites, TLR never even admits to being a even a little wrong about his condoning and supporting the use of PEDs. Oily and snaky.

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