Kemp seems to be a good guy. I hope he comes back healthy in the second half.

“I remember when I was coming up, it was a lot of peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and Top Ramen.”

It's been mentioned many times before, but you would think with all the money invested in prospects, that the MLB teams would foot the bill for food so that minor leaguers ate better. It couldn't cost more than a couple hundred thousand. That's a drop in the bucket for a MLB team.

It's been mentioned many times before, but you would think with all the money invested in prospects, that the MLB teams would foot the bill for food so that minor leaguers ate better. It couldn't cost more than a couple hundred thousand. That's a drop in the bucket for a MLB team.

Yes. It's insane to have your prospects eating crap because they can't afford healthy food.

teams could have what amounts to a training table -- that would ensure that the kids are eating good <baseball grammar>

It seems a bit strange to me that Matt Kemp would be intentionally walked in a minor league game. Isn't the point of the minor leagues is to see if your pitchers can successfully pitch against a guy like Matt Kemp?

EDIT: I RTFA (which includes the opposition's quotes about pitching to him) and the next guy grounded into a double play. It looks like the pitcher was attempting to implement a pitching strategy so I take that back.

I would guess that a big part of it is that they don't know how to fix anything more complicated than PB&Js; or ramen noodles. I bet they could afford to grill a pork chop and steam some broccoli, but these 19-year-old kids don't know how to do even that.

But did he take them to an Olive Garden?

I would guess that a big part of it is that they don't know how to fix anything more complicated than PB&Js; or ramen noodles. I bet they could afford to grill a pork chop and steam some broccoli, but these 19-year-old kids don't know how to do even that.

So do it for them. These are assets potentially worth tens of millions of dollars. Like GregD said, it's insane.

Grilling a pork chop and steaming broccoli takes two pans and a stove. Do minor leaguers have access to cooking equipment when they're on the road?

I think most clubhouses have outlets.

How many calories does a young baseball player need in a day? 3,000? How many players on a team? 24, right? The after-game spread is going to have to be packed full of calories and protein for all those young athletes. That's a lot of time and money over 140 games and 5 teams or so.

Grilling a pork chop and steaming broccoli takes two pans and a stove. Do minor leaguers have access to cooking equipment when they're on the road?

More importantly, who steams broccoli at 11pm, after the game? But if the post-game spread is too healthy, they are still going to end up at Taco Bell. It's tough to legislate eating habits.

I'm also skeptical of the health effects. What's the result of getting Prospect X to eat healthy dinners during the 7 months he's with the team vs eating ramen and microwavable pizzas? Michael Phelps' famous diet included all sorts of unhealthy, pancakes, fried eggs, pizzas ... would he have swum faster if he was consuming the same number of calories of kale and whole grains and such?

If the kids are getting fat, yeah, that's a problem.

Healthy diet of 3,000 calories ~ $20/day
x 365 days = $7300
x 25 players per team = $182,500
x 6 minor league affiliates = $1.095M

Or, they could just sign Brad Penny and let their organization's future fill their bodies with garbage.

It's tough to legislate eating habits.

Tell that to Mayor Bloomberg.

Healthy diet of 3,000 calories ~ $20/day
x 365 days = $7300
x 25 players per team = $182,500
x 6 minor league affiliates = $1.095M

Those aren't the only costs. Equipment, cleaning, storing, preparing, and cooking it is all going to cost money and then dong that for 30+ people is going to simply balloon those costs.

PB&J is not garbage. In fact it is an excellent way to cheaply consume lots of calories and protein. Ramen noodles is not really bad for you. I mean I guess it might be bad for you if you eat it everyday for 20 years or something like that but these kids aren't in the system for that long.

These guys are athletes and they need to consume a lot of calories everyday. For the most part the negative aspect of this cheap food is a long term problem that doesn't get felt while these guys are playing ball.

Kemp has major impact in minors

So did Mel Hall. BIGGITY BAM!

Michael Phelps' famous diet included all sorts of unhealthy, pancakes, fried eggs, pizzas ... would he have swum faster if he was consuming the same number of calories of kale and whole grains and such?

Do these guys work out 30 hours and swim 50 miles every week?

PB&J is not garbage. In fact it is an excellent way to cheaply consume lots of calories and protein.

You're right, it's not garbage. But it's not excellent, either. The point is having to find "cheap" food shouldn't be an issue.

Ramen noodles is not really bad for you.

Yes it is. It's loaded with sodium and is pretty much just empty calories. Here's the Cup Noodles - the popular brand. 1060g of sodium per cup--that's almost half the RDA.

These guys are athletes and they need to consume a lot of calories everyday. For the most part the negative aspect of this cheap food is a long term problem that doesn't get felt while these guys are playing ball.

Eating healthy is vital to fueling efficient workouts, recovery and building muscle. It's not just so you don't get diabetes when you're 60.

Eating healthy is vital to fueling efficient workouts, recovery and building muscle. It's not just so you don't get diabetes when you're 60.

So how does eating salt inhibit recovery and building muscle?

How is peanut butter not excellent? What do you think these guys should be eating? And don't just say "healthier food" that is an empty statement.

There are some quality mom and pop or smaller chains in the IE.

Grilling a pork chop and steaming broccoli takes two pans and a stove. Do minor leaguers have access to cooking equipment when they're on the road?

They're probably not making PB&Js; and ramen noodles on the road; I assume even that little level of food preparation requires a home kitchen. On the road, they're probably going to Taco Bell and Panda Express.

PB+J requires a kitchen?

I'm obviously not a professional athlete, but I do travel for a living. Unless I'm staying in an extended stay hotel that has a full kitchen like Homewood Suites, I wouldn't even think about trying to prepare my own food. I eat out for every single meal.

I do travel for a living.

What a strange job.

PB+J requires a kitchen?

It requires a knife, and a refrigerator to store the jelly, and a place to store the bread and peanut butter, not to mention the fact that you have to have the food on hand to begin with. I could be wrong, but I'd be very surprised if there are minor leaguers making PB&Js; in their motel rooms.

If they are making them, they're probably buying a loaf of bread and the jelly at least at a convenience store, and making a bunch at once. Or using honey instead of jelly. Or getting food poisoning.

I do travel for a living.

What a strange job.

someone's gotta do it...

It's jelly not chicken.

Anyway I'm thinking more along the lines of stuff one can bring and eat in the clubhouse.

So how does eating salt inhibit recovery and building muscle?

Not sure. I was disputing the statement that Ramen isn't bad for you. I'd imagine high blood pressure does affect one's performance in cardiovascular workouts though

How is peanut butter not excellent? What do you think these guys should be eating? And don't just say "healthier food" that is an empty statement.

Peanut butter is fine. You just shouldn't eat a ton of it, like any other fat, if you're not going to burn it.

I think they should be eating lots of vegetables, carbs like brown rice, lean meats, nuts for fat. The less processed foods, the better.

I know it is apples/oranges, but agree with many above, foot the bill and pay for a better spread. Even as a non-athlete, while a student at U of Nebraska we were permitted to walk into the Lewis Athletic Dining hall, pay a couple bucks and eat a pretty damn good spread. It was basically a much better version than the dorm room meal plan. The athletes paid nothing, and I know Nebraska athletics brings in more $ than your typical PCL club, but it doesn't make much sense to me, given the investment you have in these guys.

Not sure. I was disputing the statement that Ramen isn't bad for you. I'd imagine high blood pressure does affect one's performance in cardiovascular workouts though

Salt intake does not cause high blood pressure.

For a subset of people with high blood pressure, salt can have adverse effects. If you don't have high blood pressure, the sodium level in your diet is an extremely minor concern, and it will not cause your blood pressure to increase.

Salt intake does not cause high blood pressure.

That's interesting. FWIW, the CDC disagrees. CDC
Here's a recent study

The study you linked to found that a low sodium diet as compared to a high sodium diet significantly decreased the BP of only 1% of their normal population and 3.5% of their hypertensive population.


I have no idea how they defined "low-sodium diet" and "high-sodium diet" and how either of them relate to real world diets.

The study you linked to found that a low sodium diet as compared to a high sodium diet significantly decreased the BP of only 1% of their normal population and 3.5% of their hypertensive population.

Right. But the claim was that if you don't have high BP, sodium won't cause your BP to rise.

Yeah, the CDC website is annoyingly out of date. There was one study, which has generally not been reproduced. The vast majority of the evidence shows only the most marginal effects of salt on blood pressure, which in turn is not uniformly linked to cardiovascular health. There was one surgeon general who pushed the low-sodium diet greatly as an ethical / ascetic thing, and the CDC has ever since then called for a low-salt diet despite this not being the opinion of the scientific community.

There was an excellent article about the whole thing in Science, about a decade ago, and the state of the field if anything has only further turned against dietary sodium as a significant mover of blood pressure. (There are, again, a subset of people with cardiac disease for whom salt must be tightly regulated, and people with kidney disease need to be very careful with salt, too.) From the article:

On the one side are those experts—primarily physicians turned epidemiologists, and administrators such as Roccella and Claude Lenfant, head of NHLBI—who insist that the evidence that salt raises blood pressure is effectively irrefutable. They have an obligation, they say, to push for universal salt reduction, because people are dying and will continue to die if they wait for further research to bring scientific certainty. On the other side are those researchers—primarily physicians turned epidemiologists, including former presidents of the American Heart Association, the American Society of Hypertension, and the European and international societies of hypertension—who argue that the data supporting universal salt reduction have never been compelling, nor has it ever been demonstrated that such a program would not have unforeseen negative side effects. This was the verdict, for instance, of a review published last May in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA). University of Copenhagen researchers analyzed 114 randomized trials of sodium reduction, concluding that the benefit for hypertensives was significantly smaller than could be achieved by antihypertensive drugs, and that a “measurable” benefit in individuals with normal blood pressure (normotensives) of even a single millimeter of mercury could only be achieved with an “extreme” reduction in salt intake. “You can say without any shadow of a doubt,” says Drummond Rennie, a JAMA editor and a physiologist at the University of California (UC), San Francisco, “that the [NHLBI] has made a commitment to salt education that goes way beyond the scientific facts.”

...

By the 1970s, when the government began recommending salt reduction to treat hypertension—defined as systolic blood pressure higher than 140 mmHg and diastolic higher than 90 mmHg (140/90 mmHg)—the physiological plausibility had been supplemented by a grab bag of not particularly definitive studies and clinical lore.

Thanks. With all these traditional "junk foods"--chips, etc becoming low fat, whole grain, etc, I read a lot of people saying they're still bad because of ridiculously high sodium. So they might actually not be that bad for you?

Right. But the claim was that if you don't have high BP, sodium won't cause your BP to rise.

And the study you linked to doesn't address whether or not a high sodium diet will increase BP.

And the study you linked to doesn't address whether or not a high sodium diet will increase BP.

We weren't discussing whether a high sodium diet will increase BP. We were discussing whether a high sodium diet can increase BP. The study addressed this.

Anyway, the point is, Ramen isn't very good, and Taco Bell is terrible. Teams should be spending the money to have these guys be eating properly.

I know it is apples/oranges, but agree with many above, foot the bill and pay for a better spread.

In addition they should also be eating more apples and oranges.

I seriousness though, the vast majority of these guys DON'T represent investments that could be worth millions. The vast majority are organizational soldiers who will never sniff the majors, and most of those who will have already been given six or seven figure bonuses. And most 18-20 year old kids, even those with a million bucks, probably still want to go to Taco Bell.

We weren't discussing whether a high sodium diet will increase BP. We were discussing whether a high sodium diet can increase BP. The study addressed this.

That's what you want to hang your hat on? That maybe it might do something? But again the study you linked to said nothing about whether or not a high sodium diet can increase BP.

That's what you want to hang your hat on? That maybe it might do something? But again the study you linked to said nothing about whether or not a high sodium diet can increase BP.

I'm not hanging my hat on anything. I posted it as a response to a specific claim by Matt.

I have no idea what you're trying to accomplish here.

McCoy's part of Big Salt. Of course Zipperholes is part of Big BP.

You made a statement that ramen noodles is not good for you because it is loaded with salt and somehow that would hurt their training. You then posted a link that you believe says that high sodium can increase BP. It does not state that nor have you yet to present a case that actually shows that ramen noodles is not good for people in training.

McCoy's part of Big Salt.

Of course he is. Those suits don't pay for themselves.

You made a statement that ramen noodles is not good for you because it is loaded with salt and somehow that would hurt their training.

This is a lie. I said Ramen isn't good for you. I said I wasn't sure of the effects of a high sodium diet on athletes' training, and offered a theory.

You then posted a link that you believe says that high sodium can increase BP. It does not state that nor have you yet to present a case that actually shows that ramen noodles is not good for people in training.

That's quite alright. I already had a productive and enlightening discussion with MCoA, who is interested in participating in ways other than nitpicking comments that are only tangential to the discussion and distorting people's arguments.

This is a lie. I said Ramen isn't good for you. I said I wasn't sure of the effects of a high sodium diet on athletes' training, and offered a theory.

A lie? I'm knowingly saying something false?

You flat out said that Ramen noodles are not good for you and then said that an unhealthy diet impedes training.

That's quite alright. I already had a productive and enlightening discussion with MCoA, who is interested in participating in ways other than nitpicking comments that are only tangential to the discussion and distorting people's arguments.

Congrats, you've realized that you are completely and utterly wrong. Yet for some reason you're still arguing with me as if what you said was right. You've presented no evidence that Ramen noodles are not good for you, that they impede training, and your link doesn't say what you think it says. Am I wrong in any of what I am saying? I guess disagreeing with virtually everything you are saying could be called "nitpicking".

A lie? I'm knowingly saying something false?

You flat out said that Ramen noodles are not good for you and then said that an unhealthy diet impedes training.

Both of those things are true. That's not the same as saying Ramen noodles specifically inhibit training for athletes. And the first time you asked me directly, the first words of my response, in post 29, was "not sure." So yes, it's a lie to say that I'm claiming Ramen inhibits training for athletes, because you know that that's not what I said.

You've presented no evidence that Ramen noodles are not good for you

Yes I have. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean it's not evidence.

that they impede training

I never claimed this. See above.

I guess disagreeing with virtually everything you are saying could be called "nitpicking".

No, nitpicking is when you ignore someone's points and criticize things that have little or nothing to do with those points, while contributing nothing of your own other than arguing with people. For example, I posted those links as a response to MCoA to show that there's disagreement among authorities on the subject, because I thought it was interesting. I wasn't arguing with him, as you can see from the posts that follow, but trying to shed some light on the subject instead of trading unsubstantiated conclusions back and forth. Objecting to that instead of my actual argument is nitpicking.

Yes I have. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean it's not evidence.

It isn't a matter of not agreeing with your evidence or not. The stuff you presented doesn't say what you claim it says.


No, nitpicking is when you ignore someone's points and criticize things that have little or nothing to do with those points, while contributing nothing of your own other than arguing with people. For example, I posted those links as a response to MCoA to show that there's disagreement among authorities on the subject, because I thought it was interesting. I wasn't arguing with him, as you can see from the posts that follow, but trying to shed some light on the subject instead of trading unsubstantiated conclusions back and forth. Objecting to that instead of my actual argument is nitpicking.

Well, that is great but if you wish to trace this argument back to the beginning you'll find that it is over ramen noodles. I said ramen noodles aren't really bad for you. You said they are. You also said that an unhealthy diet is bad for training. Are you trying to say that ramen noodles are unhealthy and that unhealthy diets aren't good for training but that somehow we shouldn't connect the two?

Me:

Ramen noodles {are} not really bad for you.

You:

Yes it is. . .eating healthy is vital to fueling efficient workouts, recovery and building muscle.

Ramen noodles are a cheap food. We established that already. I said that ramen noodles aren't really bad for you and that cheap food doesn't really hurt training. You then stated that ramen noodles are bad for you and that eating healthy is vital to training. You also called the food they are currently eating "garbage" and the food that was listed in the blurb was PB+J and ramen noodles. Are you trying to say that using the word "garbage" has no meaning in regards to health?

I'm not sure how anyone can say with a straight face that they aren't making a claim that ramen noodles are not good for training. But hey, keep on calling me a liar for calling you on what you say.

Dunno if MCoA was aware of this or not, but there was an article in the Times recently about this whole salt / blood pressure kerfuffle, concluding that the evidence for a link has always been extremely weak, a fact that even few doctors are aware of.

Salt, We Misjudged You

On the diet for players thing, I think Zipperholes was kind of talking out of his butt, in two ways. We don't know how much nutritional support each team offers (and Kemp's anecdote is not very illuminating). And we don't have even the meanest hint of an idea of how "healthier" food will provide benefits for the big league club.

It isn't a matter of not agreeing with your evidence or not. The stuff you presented doesn't say what you claim it says.

The evidence I presented was the nutritional chart for Ramen noodles, showing that they're high in sodium and little other nutritional value. And those were my claims about Ramen noodles. So, yes, the evidence does show what I claim it does.

Are you trying to say that ramen noodles are unhealthy and that unhealthy diets aren't good for training but that somehow we shouldn't connect the two?

Yes. Lots of things can be unhealthy but not specifically in a way that affects training. Chewing tobacco is bad for you. I have no idea whether it inhibits workouts.

Me:

Ramen noodles {are} not really bad for you.



You:

Yes it is. . .eating healthy is vital to fueling efficient workouts, recovery and building muscle.

See, you're pasting two separate statements together. Don't do that. One was responding to whether ramen is bad for you. The other is whether a bad diet, generally, is bad for training.

Ramen noodles are a cheap food. We established that already. I said that ramen noodles aren't really bad for you and that cheap food doesn't really hurt training. You then stated that ramen noodles are bad for you and that eating healthy is vital to training. You also called the food they are currently eating "garbage" and the food that was listed in the blurb was PB+J and ramen noodles. Are you trying to say that using the word "garbage" has no meaning in regards to health?

Who gives a #### what was in the blurb. I said they shouldn't have these guys eating garbage. You started in with ramen, as if naming one food that they eat that may or may not be "garbage" somehow refutes that argument. It doesn't. I don't give a #### about ramen. All I've said is that it's not healthy, whether we're talking about baseball players or not.

All I've said is that it's not healthy, whether we're talking about baseball players or not.

So it's not healthy but it has no impact on training or anything else? Why is it unhealthy again?

You said a healhty diet is vital for training and that eating ramen noodles is not healthy. I'll keep it mind that we aren't supposed to put the two together.




See, you're pasting two separate statements together. Don't do that. One was responding to whether ramen is bad for you. The other is whether a bad diet, generally, is bad for training.

No I'm not. Despite your claims later on you were in fact specifically disputing my claim that PB+J and ramen noodles are not bad for you. I said "this cheap food" and then you quoted that to say you disagree with it by saying that a healthy diet is vital to training and not just long term health effects.




Yes. Lots of things can be unhealthy but not specifically in a way that affects training. Chewing tobacco is bad for you. I have no idea whether it inhibits workouts.

That's nice but you specifically stated that a healthy diet was vital. So when you were talking about ramen noodles were you thinking people were going to just rub them on their body or something?




The evidence I presented was the nutritional chart for Ramen noodles, showing that they're high in sodium and little other nutritional value. And those were my claims about Ramen noodles. So, yes, the evidence does show what I claim it does.

Well, no it doesn't. All real evidence points to the USDA guidelines for salt intake to be dangerously low so saying ramen noodles aren't good for you because it is half the recommended daily amount of sodium is wrong. Moreover even if we didn't know that the fact that sodium isn't really bad for you makes that link pointless as well and thus that is another way your link doesn't do what you claim it does.

You also happen to be wrong on your assessment of your link about low sodium diets as well.

Who gives a #### what was in the blurb. I said they shouldn't have these guys eating garbage. You started in with ramen, as if naming one food that they eat that may or may not be "garbage" somehow refutes that argument. It doesn't.

Amusing considering you haven't done squat to prove eating "garbage" is bad for training.


I don't give a #### about ramen.

Then I'm not sure why you felt the need to refute my post saying it wasn't bad for you.





All I've said is that it's not healthy, whether we're talking about baseball players or not.

And why is it not healthy?

And why is it not healthy?

Sure, ramen's not horrible, but it's largely refined carbs, which aren't good for you.

I said that ramen noodles aren't really bad for you and that cheap food doesn't really hurt training.

Not even sure what you're saying with this second part. Are you saying the occasional cup of ramen and PB&J won't derail your training? Of course that's true. Are you saying that you can subsist entirely on cheap food in the vein of ramen and PB&J and not have it adversely affect your training? If that's what you're saying, then perhaps you're the one who should be supplying some evidence.

You mean I should have all the minor leaugers, major leaguers, and Olympians come to this site and testify for you?

You mean I should have all the minor leaugers, major leaguers, and Olympians come to this site and testify for you?

Because all the minor leaguers, major leaguers, and Olympians are subsisting entirely on ramen?

With all these traditional "junk foods"--chips, etc becoming low fat, whole grain, etc, I read a lot of people saying they're still bad because of ridiculously high sodium. So they might actually not be that bad for you?

Sadly, no.

The main thing that makes "junk foods" tasty, and which also makes them bad for you, is their combination of high calories and low fiber. (The fat doesn't help.) Because the caloric load comes mostly from simple sugars, with little fiber and low levels of other complex nutrients, they only fill you up for a very short time. (It's called "glycemic index.") So you end up eating way more of them than your body needs in order to feel full, which is obviously not good for you.

Junk foods don't provide you with nutrients that you need, they usually have too much fat, and they have very low glycemic index, which means they dump lots of empty calories into your body without producing a lasting feeling of fullness.

There's a good video lecture by Robert Lustig of UCSF Medical School, called Sugar: The Bitter Truth, which does a pretty good job of laying out the evidence around fat and carbs and sugars and obesity and health. (Salt comes up, and the main issue with salt is that it can make you thirsty, and so it's added to sugary beverages to make you drink more than you need.)

My uncle goes to the Portland SeaDogs preseason dinner most years, and in 2007, he was seated with Jacoby Ellsbury. The dinner was pretty standard banquet fare, and Ellsbury was picking through it, looking at a sheet he had with him. My uncle asked, and Ellsbury said that he was keeping a structured diet (high protein, low fat, low processed carbs), and he had to check each dish that was served to see if he should eat it, and if so, how much.

So, no, not all minor leaguers are subsisting on ramen.

Several points:

1. Salt does appear to have an effect on BP, but the effect appears to be small. In real world terms, reducing salt intake appears to reduce SBP by about 2mm HG, and DBP by about 1 mm HG.

2. Fat is NOT evil. Even the AHA no longer argues that position. Only the most extreme hardcore Ornish types still cling to that position. Firstly there are different types of fat, with differing metabolic effects. Secondly, even when you focus on saturated fats, there are different types of sat fats, with (slightly / somewhat) varying metabolic effects. Thirdly, if you reduce (sat) fats, the question then becomes what you replace it with? Replacing sat fats with the typical carbs of an American diet, ie sugar, breads, noodles, rice, does NOT appear to beneficial, and might actually be detrimental. Very quickly, doing so will reduce LDL (good), reduce HDL (bad), have no effect on total cholesterol / HDL ratio, increase triglycerides (bad), decrease LDL particle size (bad), have no effect on BP, have no effect on apolipoprotein B, decrease apolipoprotein A1 (bad). If you are replacing the sat fats with monounsat fats (olive), or the omega 3 fats, or protein, or veg eg broccoli, then good.

3. Michael Phelps' diet was healthy, for him. When your body needs 10-15k calories a day, it isn't feasible to get those calories from veg. You will be spending all your time eating and in the bathroom.

4. Ramen is highly processed carb. A bowl of ramen is not much different metabolically from a bowl of sugar, or a bowl of candy, or a bottle of Coke. It is healthy, if consumed right after physical activity. Otherwise, not.

5. Eating garbage IS detrimental to training. The effects of post exercise food consumption, specifically protein, are hardly controversial. The issue is what is garbage.

"Junk foods don't provide you with nutrients that you need, they usually have too much fat, and they have very low glycemic index, which means they dump lots of empty calories into your body without producing a lasting feeling of fullness."

This is wrong. It is foods with a HIGH glycemic index that do not provide a lasting feeling of fullness, for example, a bottle of Coke. Conversely, foods that are sometimes referred to as being "heavy", ie fatty foods, foods high in fat and protein such as cheese, have a LOW GI, and provide a sense of lasting fullness, hence why some people refer to such foods as "heavy".

Generally speaking, you want high GI carbs / foods after physical activity / exericse, when your body needs food quickly, and also is in a metabolic state where it can take advantage of them. Otherwise, low GI is good.

The problem with junk foods, and the stereotypical American diet, is the combination of high (saturated) fats AND high carbohydrates (high GI carbs). There might be a possibly detrimental synergistic metabolic effect when they are combined.

Oh, and synthetic trans fats, ie elaidic acid is poision to be avoided at all costs. (naturally occurring trans fats, ie vaccenic acid, might actually have beneficial metabolic affects, via the effect on conjugated linoleic acid: long story short, might increase muscle mass via increased myofibrillar protein synthesis)

I always forget which is low and which is high. (It seems like it should be the other way around, though looking it up I get why it runs the way it does.)