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Friday, February 02, 2018

Ken Rosenthal - Ken Levinson’s statement

Agents banging the drums.

Statement from player agent Seth Levinson on current labor situation:

“There is a bond that exists between Clubs and its fan base. The integrity of that time-honored relationship is predicated upon the good faith effort of the Club to compete to the best of its ability. The CBA which defines the relationship between Clubs and Players is a good faith effort to create and assure that there is a competitive balance among all Clubs so that the greater good and best interests of the game are served.

“There may be legitimate reasons for the problems that players have encountered in this market. That said, there is no Industry in this country where competing businesses act in virtually an identical manner. It is disconcerting, and disheartening for Clubs that are awash in revenue and or are fully capable of improving its product to choose to do otherwise. Jerry DiPoto so eloquently made the point that there may be more Clubs competing for the 1st pick in the June Amateur Draft than for the World Series.”

Jim Furtado Posted: February 02, 2018 at 04:40 PM | 60 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: cba, collusion

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   1. Jose is an Absurd Doubles Machine Posted: February 02, 2018 at 05:15 PM (#5618312)
All these agents making these comments here's what you do. Make public what you think is a fair offer. Make your case. JD Martinez thinks he's worth 7 years/200 million? Thanks but no thanks. Eric Hosmer wants an 8 or 9 year contract? Pass.
   2. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: February 02, 2018 at 05:19 PM (#5618315)
All the agents are now coming out with the exact same talking points, which is kind of funny when one of those talking points is alleging collusion by their adversaries.
   3. cardsfanboy Posted: February 02, 2018 at 05:43 PM (#5618325)
All these agents making these comments here's what you do. Make public what you think is a fair offer. Make your case. JD Martinez thinks he's worth 7 years/200 million? Thanks but no thanks. Eric Hosmer wants an 8 or 9 year contract? Pass.


I fully endorse this.
   4. Jose is an Absurd Doubles Machine Posted: February 02, 2018 at 06:05 PM (#5618340)
I will say I agree with the agents in theory. The players DO deserve more than hey are getting. The luxury tax is too low given the amount of money in the game but with that artificial limiter I think the offers that have been rumored this winter have been fair within that framework.
   5. cardsfanboy Posted: February 02, 2018 at 07:03 PM (#5618363)
I will say I agree with the agents in theory. The players DO deserve more than hey are getting. The luxury tax is too low given the amount of money in the game but with that artificial limiter I think the offers that have been rumored this winter have been fair within that framework.


I think I need more persuasion to make that assumption, but no matter what ever happens in my life, I'll never support a system that pays players massive amounts of money before they have a track record of quality (meaning I'm not supporting larger draft bonus's, higher minimum wage or ridding the system of pre-arbitration years) I just do not get the argument to pay people enough money to retire on, before they have actually done anything.


Sure reward the 4-8 year players, provided there is a system in place to keep them on the teams that developed them and who's fanbase has become attached too, but sure more money to the players.
   6. DaVoice of DaPeople Posted: February 02, 2018 at 07:59 PM (#5618380)
Jake Arrieta would be one of the twelve best pitchers on all 30 teams. (Well, maybe not the Indians. Mike Cleviner is legit!) Therefore every team that’s not signing him is either

1) Intentionally tanking, or
2) Prioriting turning a profit over winning games.
   7. Jose is an Absurd Doubles Machine Posted: February 02, 2018 at 08:13 PM (#5618382)
5 - I’m fine with the concept of players having to prove themselves. But general player salaries should be in the 50% neighborhood of revenues. If the owners are pocketing that money they should make tickets lower priced or do other things that would be better for the fans. If the owners are going to rake in the money I’d prefer it go to the players I pay to see rather than to the owners I don’t.

6 - You are making an assumption about the offers that exist. That gets back to my original point. I want to know what deals the players are asking for. The rumored deals for the big names I’ve seen have seemed reasonable to me. The current rules make the luxury tax something that can’t be ignored. The Yankees for example could use Arrieta but at the same time they have very valid reasons not to sign him. Likewise just because Arrieta would be better than the Dodgers mop up man doesn’t mean he’d accept a deal to play that role and it wouldn’t be a good u se of resources for the Dodgers.
   8. Greg Pope Posted: February 02, 2018 at 08:37 PM (#5618392)
But general player salaries should be in the 50% neighborhood of revenues.

Completely honest question: Why? Where does the 50% number come from and why is that fair to owners and players? I have no idea if that number is high, low, or spot on.
   9. ptodd Posted: February 02, 2018 at 08:49 PM (#5618399)
#8. In many service industries 40% of revenue is a benchmark for payroll. In an industry such as MLB where players are the chief source of revenue and most stadiums are constructed or renovated with tax payer support I would say 50%! Is reasonable. Other sports also seem to be at 50% and at turn of the century MLB gave players over 50%
   10. Jose is an Absurd Doubles Machine Posted: February 02, 2018 at 08:51 PM (#5618401)
It’s just kind of a loosely gut feeling. My understanding (as someone who admittedly doesn’t pay attention to it) is that that is roughly the number that the other major sports run at and baseball is apparently y down around 40%. I could be comicaly wrong about the numbers if so mea culpa.

My point is more generally that I’d rather the players get the money than the owners. I have no problem with the owners getting rich but as a fan I pay to see the players. There is SO much money in the game it seems like there should be a way to balance out the fans, the players and the owners. If the luxury tax is driving the slower off-season t hen it is probably set at too low a number. One option is for the owners to charge less for tickets, maybe take out some of the over the top advertising, that kind of thing. Another is to say “hey , the players are why people come to games, they deserve more of the money.”

Clearly I haven’t fleshed this out, it’s just a gut feel. I’m just spitballing a bit.
   11. ptodd Posted: February 02, 2018 at 08:55 PM (#5618404)
The end of the season median salary is not much higher than the minimum and the average MLB career is 4 years after years in the minor leagues making a pittance. Most players dont get much of a signing bonus these days either

Sure a minority of players lucky enough to hit free agency make real good money. MLBPA should really try and address the income inequality. Owners dont care much how the pie is sliced

Now it seems owners get the benefit of not paying 70% of the players market wages and are seeking to deprive the 30% who are from continuing to do so.
That can't be accepted
   12. cardsfanboy Posted: February 02, 2018 at 10:22 PM (#5618437)
#8. In many service industries 40% of revenue is a benchmark for payroll. In an industry such as MLB where players are the chief source of revenue and most stadiums are constructed or renovated with tax payer support I would say 50%! Is reasonable. Other sports also seem to be at 50% and at turn of the century MLB gave players over 50%


But baseball is a bit different from the lesser sports in that they don't have colleges subsidizing the development of players. The minor leagues take a decent chunk of a teams revenue to maintain. The reason that baseball has control of players is because they are paying for their development and that money shouldn't be lost. Baseball player costs at the major league level should absolutely be less as a percentage of revenue than the lesser sports.
   13. bookbook Posted: February 03, 2018 at 07:41 AM (#5618527)
As human beings, I’m not sure how much we should care about the millionaires or the billionaires’ take home pay. We should push for higher minor league pay and something close to a doubling of the major league minimum instead.
   14. McCoy Posted: February 03, 2018 at 08:12 AM (#5618532)
I've seen articles that say payroll for baseball is over 50%
   15. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: February 03, 2018 at 09:05 AM (#5618542)
I've seen articles that say payroll for baseball is over 50%

Maybe payroll for all employees, including front office salaries?

I mean it's not really hard to figure out. Players got a tiny bit over 4bn last season. MLB made over 10bn in revenue. There is just no way to make the math say that is more than 50%.
   16. The Duke Posted: February 03, 2018 at 10:00 AM (#5618546)
It’s a pretty inspiring group of players but they should be getting more traction than this. I’m sure for instance lance lynn could probably sign fo 3/36 for a ton of teams but he wants 4 or 5 years because three years from now he’ll be signing for much less. It is probably that teams won’t pay for age 36+ seasons anymore. Can’t say I blame them, but shouldn’t it mean the short term contracts will have more juice ?
   17. Random Transaction Generator Posted: February 03, 2018 at 10:01 AM (#5618548)
Players got a tiny bit over 4bn last season. MLB made over 10bn in revenue. There is just no way to make the math say that is more than 50%.


Is that 4bn just salaries for the players?
Does it include money they would have gotten for MLB/affiliateds using their images/names in advertising/games/products?
   18. McCoy Posted: February 03, 2018 at 10:26 AM (#5618556)
I believe If you factor in MLBAM and it’s non baseball revenue as gross revenue you get to well below 50%. Call it the Scott Boras route. But if you count It correctly as well as player benefits, draft signings, and minor league payroll you get to well over 50%. Payroll cost over the last 15 years has been pretty stable. That’s why it wasn’t a big deal in the last negotiation. It wasn’t something that was overlooked like some claim.
   19. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: February 03, 2018 at 10:47 AM (#5618563)
My point is more generally that I’d rather the players get the money than the owners. I have no problem with the owners getting rich but as a fan I pay to see the players. There is SO much money in the game it seems like there should be a way to balance out the fans, the players and the owners. If the luxury tax is driving the slower off-season t hen it is probably set at too low a number. One option is for the owners to charge less for tickets, maybe take out some of the over the top advertising, that kind of thing. Another is to say “hey , the players are why people come to games, they deserve more of the money


If it's just choosing between the wealthy free agent players on huge contracts, and the extremely wealthy owners, I really don't care who gets the money. Now, if the owners could somehow be forced to really spread the wealth around (obviously not a priority for the union or agents), including to the vast majority of players who wash out of the majors after hardly making much at all, or the even larger multitude of players that never even make it out of the minors, you could get my attention.
   20. McCoy Posted: February 03, 2018 at 11:01 AM (#5618568)
If it is just between splitting money amongst a bunch of strangers I'll never meet I really don't care. Now if that money was used to build their own stadiums and to reduce the cost of tickets you've got my attention.
   21. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: February 03, 2018 at 11:56 AM (#5618592)
If it is just between splitting money amongst a bunch of strangers I'll never meet I really don't care. Now if that money was used to build their own stadiums and to reduce the cost of tickets you've got my attention.
Touche. But I have no intention of ever paying to attend any pro sports event or buying any concessions, buying any sports merchandise, or even paying to see a game on tv, so I can't say I care about what size the stadiums are or even that the teams play in front of a live audience.

Now, I do care that the teams stop getting public money, but I thought even suggesting something like that could ever happen would make me sound like a lunatic.
   22. dejarouehg Posted: February 03, 2018 at 12:33 PM (#5618616)
20 & 21 - Excellent Posts, though I will pay to see games if I'm going away to see a new stadium. Otherwise, it's TV or a friend or client offers me tkts.

I think the players should get 50% of the pie and whatever shortfall in total salaries below 50%, should be put towards the players' pension and minor league players. It's absurd that a $10B industry can't provide these kids with reasonable wages. It's also absurd that players should not be able to make the big $ when they are most productive. I think all players should have the right to be a free agent at 26 years old.

Agents and players sound just like the entitled little s***ts we are raising today, as if it's their birthright to have employers enter into stupid agreements. When the agent intelligently explains away why the Albert Pujols contract shouldn't be the cautionary tale, then their positions will have some merit. Right now, they just want to cherry pick what economic components are favorable to them and ignore the others.

As for the owners, F*** 'em too!

   23. McCoy Posted: February 03, 2018 at 01:05 PM (#5618637)
How are they not making a reasonable wage?
   24. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: February 03, 2018 at 01:11 PM (#5618643)
How are they not making a reasonable wage?
The minor leaguers? Gee I wonder.
   25. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 03, 2018 at 01:24 PM (#5618650)
The minor leaguers? Gee I wonder.

If they're getting under minimum wage, that's a legit issue. But, why should an 18 y.o. with no education or experience be making more than the $10/hour he'd be making in any other industry? 50% of these guys have effectively no chance of ever making MLB.
   26. McCoy Posted: February 03, 2018 at 01:24 PM (#5618652)
A low valued 19 year old should be making what exactly?
   27. TDF didn't lie, he just didn't remember Posted: February 03, 2018 at 01:29 PM (#5618654)
I've seen articles that say payroll for baseball is over 50%
The only article that claims that uses data provided by MLB, so I'd take it with a grain of salt.
   28. The Duke Posted: February 03, 2018 at 01:32 PM (#5618659)
The players have many ways of showing their displeasure. They could all refuse to show up to spring training until
Mandatory reporting date, they can only show up a reasonable amount before game time, refuse to give interviews, etc

But all of this has to have a tangible goal. It seems to me the tangible goal would be to force minimum team salaries. That would force teams either to pay their controlled players much more or hire free agents.

They’ll never do anything until next CBA in reality. They are fat, dumb, and happy.
   29. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: February 03, 2018 at 01:37 PM (#5618662)
If they're getting under minimum wage, that's a legit issue.
There have been recent lawsuits on this very issue.

A low valued 19 year old should be making what exactly?
A FA should be making what exactly? The teams actually need warm bodies at every level, and for the most part they work just about as hard as the players in the majors.

It's not like baseball even currently has a system where players are, in general, paid what the market will bear for them, so I'm not sure where this argument is coming from.



   30. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 03, 2018 at 02:02 PM (#5618673)
A FA should be making what exactly? The teams actually need warm bodies at every level, and for the most part they work just about as hard as the players in the majors.

It's not like baseball even currently has a system where players are, in general, paid what the market will bear for them, so I'm not sure where this argument is coming from.


90% of the minor leaguers are fungible. Most of the FAs are not.

Hard work has nothing to do with it. A ditch digger works a lot harder than an oncologist.
   31. McCoy Posted: February 03, 2018 at 02:04 PM (#5618675)
Re 27 as opposed to a Scott boras funded study?
   32. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: February 03, 2018 at 02:05 PM (#5618676)
90% of the minor leaguers are fungible. Most of the FAs are not.
If we get rid of team control of players, the major league minimum, and the anti-trust exemption (and probably a bunch of other stuff I haven't considered), then maybe we can talk.
   33. dejarouehg Posted: February 03, 2018 at 02:10 PM (#5618677)
If they're getting under minimum wage, that's a legit issue. But, why should an 18 y.o. with no education or experience be making more than the $10/hour he'd be making in any other industry? 50% of these guys have effectively no chance of ever making MLB.


To address your points:

I think some do make less than minimum wage. Salaries range from $1200-2400 per month depending upon the level.

First of all, not all the kids in rookie leagues are 18.
Second, kids working at the local McDonalds make $13/hour.
Third, be careful about painting baseball with the same brush as other sports. Surely some are uneducated but many are college grads or HS grads who went for the dollar-and-a-dream. If you ever did baseball college recruiting trips or baseball showcases, you'd be surprised just how stupid baseball players aren't.
Fourth, 50% is way too high. I'd say 10% have a shot of getting an AB or IP, and that might be a stretch.

Independent of all that, paying the kids more so that they get real nutrition and don't binge on Taco Bell, might be in the team's best interest. The cost to double the salaries of an A-level team is probably the equivalent of one lousy MLB back-up infielder's paycheck.
   34. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 03, 2018 at 02:10 PM (#5618678)
If we get rid of team control of players, the major league minimum, and the anti-trust exemption (and probably a bunch of other stuff I haven't considered),

None of this matters for most minor leaguers. For 80% of these guys, if they cost $50,000 p.a. the teams simply wouldn't employ them. Teams would consolidate the minor leagues, or move them overseas.

Control of a guy with a 1 in 1000 shot of a short MLB career just isn't worth much. MLB would be happy to let these guys play in independent leagues and scout/sign them from there.
   35. BrianBrianson Posted: February 03, 2018 at 02:14 PM (#5618682)
Jake Arrieta would be one of the twelve best pitchers on all 30 teams. (Well, maybe not the Indians. Mike Cleviner is legit!) Therefore every team that’s not signing him is either

1) Intentionally tanking, or
2) Prioriting turning a profit over winning games.


It depends on his demands - if every team is offering him a billion dollars for a 10 year contract - well, they'd be better off spending that money elsewhere than offering him even more.
   36. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: February 03, 2018 at 02:15 PM (#5618685)
None of this matters for most minor leaguers
ok. But my point is that there is no good reason to worry about what's "fair" for a free agent to earn, since the existing baseball market doesn't pay players for what they would be worth in a free market system (in fact, most FAs are already significantly overpaid relative to what they would be worth in a true free-market system, because of the years of team control).
   37. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 03, 2018 at 02:15 PM (#5618686)
I think some do make less than minimum wage. Salaries range from $1200-2400 per month depending upon the level.

That should be addressed. MLB should be forced to follow all labor laws.

First of all, not all the kids in rookie leagues are 18.

If you're 22 and still in Rookie Ball, it's time to move on with your life.

Third, be careful about painting baseball with the same brush as other sports. Surely some are uneducated but many are college grads or HS grads who went for the dollar-and-a-dream. If you ever did baseball college recruiting trips or baseball showcases, you'd be surprised just how stupid baseball players aren't.

I'm not saying they're dumb. I'm just saying they lack marketable baseball skills.

Many/most of the college grads should move on with their lives. They have a much better chance of making a good living in another field, rather than wasting their 20s and 30s pursuing a fleeting dream.

Fourth, 50% is way too high. I'd say 10% have a shot of getting an AB or IP, and that might be a stretch.

Makes my point even stronger. Most of these guys should move on.

It's the same issues as aspiring actors and musicians. Way too many people are intoxicated with the idea of being a star. Hell, we see this with the Ivy Leaguers who are willing to work 100 hours per week in the front office for peanuts.

As long as people are willing to be fools for a dream, wages will be low.
   38. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 03, 2018 at 02:17 PM (#5618687)
ok. But my point is that there is no good reason to worry about what's "fair" for a free agent to earn, since the existing baseball market doesn't pay players for what they would be worth in a free market system (in fact, most FAs are already significantly overpaid relative to what they would be worth in a true free-market system, because of the year of team control).

I'm not worried particularly about FAs. I'm just saying that no matter how much money there is in the sport, it makes no sense for MLB to pay it to the vast majority of minor leaguers.

The goal of the MLBPA should be to get more money to the 2-6 year MLB guys.
   39. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: February 03, 2018 at 02:24 PM (#5618693)
I'm not worried particularly about FAs. I'm just saying that no matter how much money there is in the sport, it makes no sense for MLB to pay it to the vast majority of minor leaguers.
Or the majority of major leaguers, since these guys will also play virtually for free and are not adding much on the field value over a AAAA player. Most people prefer a system where money is shared a little more equitably (which is partly why there is a major league minimum in the first place), and I would prefer extending at least a small portion of that to the minor leagues as well.
   40. McCoy Posted: February 03, 2018 at 03:50 PM (#5618743)
How are the majors not following labor laws? They've been acting illegally for decades now?
   41. McCoy Posted: February 03, 2018 at 03:53 PM (#5618746)
There is a major league minimum because there is a union and the only way for the union to hold back in the day of real labor strife is to give the guys at the bottom (the vast majority of players) a carrot to hang with the union.
   42. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 03, 2018 at 03:56 PM (#5618749)
How are the majors not following labor laws? They've been acting illegally for decades now?

Not the majors. The minors. It's being disputed whether they are following the minimum wage laws.
   43. McCoy Posted: February 03, 2018 at 06:19 PM (#5618792)
Yes it is being disputed but the practice has been going on for decades. Organized baseball is likely to prevail.
   44. cardsfanboy Posted: February 03, 2018 at 09:41 PM (#5618842)
Yes it is being disputed but the practice has been going on for decades. Organized baseball is likely to prevail.


Note: on this particular issue I'm more on your side than against it, but at the same time they are skirting the limit's of fairness for some of these players.... There is a bit of an assumption that the players need to exercise and workout beyond the hours they are "on the clock" to have the ability to perform at the level they are getting paid and there is some evidence to suggest that they aren't being paid equivalent to what they should get.... I'm not in the camp that believes they should get big paychecks, but in reality a minimum paycheck for a minor leaguer should be roughly $10 an hour for 40 hour work week(it's a salary job) along with another $5 an hour for roughly the 20 or so hours that they are expected to maintain condition... this means that at a minimum, all minor leaguers should get probably $2000 a month plus per diem. (40 hours a week times 10 an hour = 400 dollars a week, add in just 20 hours of "maintenance" and you are looking at another $100 (or if you are a stickler that is another 10 hours at $10) ....those to me look like reasonable hours.... a baseball game is roughly 4 hours of their time, they are expected at a minimum to show up two hours early and most weeks play a minimum of 6 games a week, so you are looking at 36 hours there, not counting travel time... so yes, it's pretty obvious that they are working clearly 40+ hours a week during the season. And it's very probable that they aren't actually getting overtime pay....so yes, $2000 a month is absolutely the minimum a minor league player should be getting.... and there is a strong argument that $2500 a month is more accurate(not counting per diem) and again, I'm not a guy who believes in paying the minors, but at the same time, there is a minimum that you realistic should pay to any employee, and in this case $2000 is pretty much the minimum reasonable expense.
   45. nick swisher hygiene Posted: February 03, 2018 at 09:58 PM (#5618849)
" be careful about painting baseball with the same brush as other sports"

you think baseball players are atypically SMART? unusually well educated???
   46. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 03, 2018 at 10:16 PM (#5618856)

you think baseball players are atypically SMART? unusually well educated???


I think they're definitely smarter than football players. 25% of them would be in jail if not for football.

We freak out about baseball players' DUIs. NFL players flat out murder people.
   47. Dr. Vaux Posted: February 04, 2018 at 04:43 AM (#5618892)
Football players have just about got to be smarter on average than baseball players. They have to remember the plays and schemes, and respond to audibles, and figure things out really fast. In baseball, every play is the same--the pitcher throws the ball, the batter tries to hit it, and the fielders try to catch it.

Football players tend to sound smarter in interviews, too, although I've noticed a few baseball players sounding a little smarter recently.
   48. McCoy Posted: February 04, 2018 at 07:12 AM (#5618896)
How does $5 for staying in "condition" make any kind of legal sense? If it is required then it's below legal minimum wage. If it's voluntary then they don't need to pay them.
   49. Tony S Posted: February 04, 2018 at 08:36 AM (#5618901)

If Harper and Machado were free agents this year, none of this discussion would be happening. The agents are simply soberly realizing that there aren't too many sucker organizations left that will throw superstar money at Eric Hosmer just because he hit .318 last year. Hosmer is a nice player, but hardly an irreplaceable generational talent; the Padres' reported offer is more than fair for a player of his ability -- he can either pounce upon it or become the next Jody Reed.

   50. dejarouehg Posted: February 04, 2018 at 08:52 AM (#5618904)
you think baseball players are atypically SMART? unusually well educated???
In comparison to NFL, NBA and NHL, they are generally better educated.

Football players have just about got to be smarter on average than baseball players. They have to remember the plays and schemes, and respond to audibles, and figure things out really fast.


1) I'm not sure anything in sports - I exclude auto racing as a sport - requires the same agility to read and react as hitting a baseball.

2) Remembering plays and schemes shows that for many, had they decided to apply themselves to the education portion of their school day rather than the athletics part, they certainly could have done better in school. However, remember the one who has to make the most adjustments and has the greatest intellectual challenge, probably in all of sports, is the QB and they do tend to be fairly bright - the legend of Terry Bradshaw notwithstanding - and it drops off from there. Clearly the Center has to make line adjustments and the receivers need to read the play properly to select the same route option, if applicable, as the QB, but the burden on players outside of QB is not nearly as great.

3) One might argue that playing football in the first place, given the long-term side effects shows questionable judgement. (Again, outside of QB, since the NFL clearly believes that the their health and well-being is worth exponentially more than all the other players on the team.....combined.)

Football players tend to sound smarter in interviews, too, although I've noticed a few baseball players sounding a little smarter recently.
Football players are certainly more open, as are NBA and NHL players. Baseball players are well-trained, just like Bull Durham mocked, to say as little as possible. You think Derek Jeter was stupid or appropriately cautious? If you give them nothing, then it's harder to create something.

The greater point was that baseball players boost an athletic department's academic index (which is a big benefit of the women's sports) whereas, especially on the D1 level, to help cover for football and basketball, and, obviously, I get the racial component that's implied. Baseball players are whiter, have access to better education, and can't afford to count on scholarships of significance.

We went to numerous showcases where my son's academic background was (appropriately) more appealing to coaches than his high 80's fastball. The latter are a dime-a-dozen, the academics gave them an option to offset the kid who was academically challenged but threw 93. (The Bo Bichettes of the world were in a different class; so good that your grades don't matter anyway.)

   51. dejarouehg Posted: February 04, 2018 at 08:52 AM (#5618905)
Should have read

The greater point was that baseball players boost an athletic department's academic index (which is a big benefit of the women's sports) whereas, especially on the D1 level, it helps cover for football and basketball, and, obviously, I get the racial component that's implied. Baseball players are whiter, have access to better education, and can't afford to count on scholarships of significance.
   52. cardsfanboy Posted: February 04, 2018 at 08:56 AM (#5618907)
How does $5 for staying in "condition" make any kind of legal sense? If it is required then it's below legal minimum wage. If it's voluntary then they don't need to pay them.


You are right, it is voluntary, but it's also "required" if they want to succeed in their profession. I'm just arguing for a 'fairness' option not a legal option. You know me, I ####### hate lawyers who insist on the rule of law instead of fairness or what is right. Minor league players are salary, and have a minimum expectation of 35+ hours a week, not including travel time nor including getting in shape for the job, 1500 a month sounds ridiculously low for that that, 2000 seems like the absolute floor for that type of job.
   53. dejarouehg Posted: February 04, 2018 at 08:57 AM (#5618909)
You are right, it is voluntary,
It's not voluntary. It's part of their contract.
   54. dejarouehg Posted: February 04, 2018 at 08:59 AM (#5618910)
I ####### hate lawyers who insist on the rule of law instead of fairness or what is right


Precisely, and in an 8 figure industry, baseball can afford to pay these players, many of whom, whether anyone agrees with the choice or not, have foregone college to live out a dream with a likely unsuccessful ending.

Doubling the numbers from bottom to top would not hurt the game. Though remember we are talking about the MLB supplementing MiLB, since I assume they are responsible for meeting the payroll.

It's the equivalent of me giving a homeless person $5. It doesn't make them rich and doesn't make me poor, but it's the right thing to do.
   55. McCoy Posted: February 04, 2018 at 09:01 AM (#5618911)
Re 53 I think you missed the point of the statement which had to do with $5 an hour of pay.
   56. dejarouehg Posted: February 04, 2018 at 09:04 AM (#5618912)
Re 53 I think you missed the point of the statement which had to do with $5 an hour of pay.


I sit corrected! Was just clarifying that staying in shape is a contractual obligation.
   57. McCoy Posted: February 04, 2018 at 09:07 AM (#5618915)
MLB will help pay for college or continuing education for their minor league players.
   58. McCoy Posted: February 04, 2018 at 09:08 AM (#5618916)
I don't think there is a single corporation who wouldn't look seriously into whether it was good or not to increase their costs by millions.
   59. The Ghost of Logan Schafer Posted: February 04, 2018 at 05:40 PM (#5619117)
All of this free agent stuff has me looking back on how Jody Reed turning down a 3 / $7.8 million offer from the LAD back in 1994.
The LAD pulled their offer off of the table and traded Pedro Martinez to MONTREAL for Delino Deshields.
I sometimes wonder what would have happened with Pedro and LAD if Jody Reed would have signed on the dotted line.
   60. Dr. Vaux Posted: February 04, 2018 at 08:17 PM (#5619263)
Lasorda would have destroyed him by 1997.

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