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Sunday, October 16, 2011

Knobler: Rangers aren’t sitting on their AL throne without Michael Young

Well…didn’t Joe Buck call Michael Young “arguably the best hitter in franchise history”. So there’s that.

The Rangers didn’t need Cliff Lee to get back to the World Series.

They did need Michael Young.

They weren’t severely damaged on that night in December, when Lee turned down their millions to sign with the Phillies. But they may well have been saved on those days in February, when they didn’t trade Young.

The Rangers without Lee are American League champions, just as they were with him. The Rangers without Young just wouldn’t be the same.

...“If we go into any game and you ask who’s going to get the big hit, I’m always going to say Michael Young,” said Tom Grieve, the one-time Rangers general manager and longtime television analyst. “You’d like to say, ‘Wow, what a surprise.’ But it’s not.”

Repoz Posted: October 16, 2011 at 12:50 PM | 44 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: game recaps, history, rangers, tigers

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Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. Jorge Luis Bourjos (Walewander) Posted: October 16, 2011 at 02:47 PM (#3965198)
Congratulations Rangers fans!
   2. Tripon Posted: October 16, 2011 at 03:26 PM (#3965208)
Michael Young is apparently really ####### dreamy to sports writers.
   3. jobu Posted: October 16, 2011 at 03:47 PM (#3965214)
He has a lifetime .308 batting average in the All-Star game, against the best pitchers in the world, so you know he's a gamer.
   4. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: October 16, 2011 at 03:59 PM (#3965220)
I don't have anything against Michael Young and he did have a huge Game 6. But really? What about Adrian Beltre or Mike Napoli? Those guys didn't have anything to do with the Rangers getting back to the Fall Classic?

Young had a pretty great offensive regular season, but who knows if the Rangers are in the World Series this year if Beltre and Napoli don't rake in the ALDS and Nelson Cruz acts like Reggie Jackson in the ALCS. I do know that Young wasn't helping the cause until Game 5 where he FINALLY drove in a run from the cleanup spot after nearly 30 at-bats this postseason.

edit: and congrats Rangers. I wanted them to win because I didn't think Detroit could beat either St. Louis or Milwaukee. It was still rough to see that scrappy Detroit squad just run out of gas.
   5. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: October 16, 2011 at 04:01 PM (#3965221)
Is this somehow the "Rangers win the pennant" topic? If so, congrats to the Rangers fans on this site. They're a likable bunch and a great team that somehow got overlooked most of the year. I would definitely prefer them to win the WS if it's against the Cardinals, but I think I'd probably be rooting for the Brewers if they manage to win the NL pennant.
   6. AROM Posted: October 16, 2011 at 04:09 PM (#3965226)
I'm rooting for beast over squirrel in the NL. Nothing against the Cards, but I'd like to see a team get their first ever championship.
   7. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: October 16, 2011 at 04:15 PM (#3965227)
I'm rooting for beast over squirrel in the NL. Nothing against the Cards, but I'd like to see a team get their first ever championship.


I'm rooting for the first-ever all-expansion team World Series. Oh, and against TLR.

Congrats to Bob, Vance, Pat Rapp and any other Ranger rooters on site.
   8. cardsfanboy Posted: October 16, 2011 at 04:22 PM (#3965228)
I'm rooting for beast over squirrel in the NL. Nothing against the Cards, but I'd like to see a team get their first ever championship


That is even if the Cards don't make it to the series, that I'm still going to be in a positive mood. I think it's always great when a team wins their first world series, and a Brewer/Rangers match up would guarantee that result. I'm still rooting for the Cardinals of course, but if they don't make it, I'm rooting for the Brewers(maybe they can use some of that post season revenue to keep Fielder)
   9. McCoy Posted: October 16, 2011 at 04:30 PM (#3965229)
The Cardinals are an expansion team.
   10. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: October 16, 2011 at 04:33 PM (#3965230)
Nothing against the Cards

What'S wrong with you?!
   11. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: October 16, 2011 at 04:43 PM (#3965232)
The Cardinals are an expansion team.


Don't be pedantic.
   12. Pat Rapper's Delight Posted: October 16, 2011 at 04:49 PM (#3965234)
Thanks SoSH. I moved to Arlington in 1989 and spent many nights broiling in the bleachers at Arlington Stadium when I should have been studying (Too bad I never had BDC as a prof... probably could have gotten away with a lot more excused late assignments!). If the Red Sox can't be in the series, having the Rangers there is the next best thing for me.
   13. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: October 16, 2011 at 04:53 PM (#3965235)
[9] Actually even if you're going back to 19th century, the Cardinals (then known as the Browns or Brown Stockings) were one of the original 6 American Association teams.
   14. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: October 16, 2011 at 04:55 PM (#3965236)
didn’t Joe Buck call Michael Young “arguably the best hitter in franchise history”. So there’s that.

best... 9th, who's counting?
   15. cardsfanboy Posted: October 16, 2011 at 05:09 PM (#3965242)
best... 9th, who's counting?


I have him as 18th best :)
Rangers career by batting runs

but yes, who's counting, he's not remotely at the same level offensively as Palmeiro was(or even Juan Gone, and Arod)

Edit:counting only Rangers no senators.
   16. Tripon Posted: October 16, 2011 at 05:20 PM (#3965244)
Calling Young the best hitter in franchise history is a bit odd, considering the team already has the reigning MVP in Hamilton currently still on the team.

The Rangers might underestimate or undervalue Michael Young's worth(at least on the field, he's getting pretty handsomely for a utility player), but it sure seem the reporters overvalue him by a great deal.
   17. The Long Arm of Rudy Law Posted: October 16, 2011 at 05:35 PM (#3965247)
He'll pass Juan Gone in total bases early next year, but in 1500 more plate appearances.
   18. Walt Davis Posted: October 16, 2011 at 05:58 PM (#3965252)
I'm rooting for the first-ever all-expansion team World Series.

As a kid, the idea of a Pilots-Senators WS seemed laughable ... if for no other reason than they were both in the AL.

I'm not in Kansas anymore. OK, I wasn't in Kansas then either ... or ever except maybe on the train to Estes Park when I was like 6 ... but I digress.
   19. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: October 16, 2011 at 06:46 PM (#3965276)
Is Josh Hamilton the most underrated MVP of recent vintage? He doesn't seem to be perceived as the best hitter even on his own team by the writers and announcers. Him winning the MVP last year is evidence that, yes, he isn't totally overlooked. It just seems like we don't hear much about Hamilton unless it's someone recounting his storied past for the umpteenth time.
   20. cardsfanboy Posted: October 16, 2011 at 07:09 PM (#3965283)
Is Josh Hamilton the most underrated MVP of recent vintage? He doesn't seem to be perceived as the best hitter even on his own team by the writers and announcers. Him winning the MVP last year is evidence that, yes, he isn't totally overlooked. It just seems like we don't hear much about Hamilton unless it's someone recounting his storied past for the umpteenth time.


I think it has more to do with him missing a lot of playing time. He misses 30 or so games a year and that reduces his perception to the masses. Right now there isn't much difference between his career and JD Drews age 26 to 30 seasons.
   21. McCoy Posted: October 16, 2011 at 08:43 PM (#3965303)
Don't be pedantic.

Your therapist must love you.
   22. Srul Itza At Home Posted: October 16, 2011 at 09:40 PM (#3965320)
You still haven't explained the reasoning by which you categorize the Cardinals as an expansion team.
   23. McCoy Posted: October 16, 2011 at 09:59 PM (#3965327)
Really?
   24. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: October 16, 2011 at 11:31 PM (#3965355)
What's your point?
   25. OsunaSakata Posted: October 16, 2011 at 11:45 PM (#3965371)
Is Josh Hamilton the most underrated MVP of recent vintage? He doesn't seem to be perceived as the best hitter even on his own team by the writers and announcers. Him winning the MVP last year is evidence that, yes, he isn't totally overlooked. It just seems like we don't hear much about Hamilton unless it's someone recounting his storied past for the umpteenth time.


Does Michael Young do commercials for Majestic batting practice jerseys?
   26. BDC Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:19 AM (#3965415)
Thanks for the congratulations, everyone. It has been a terrific couple of years in Arlington.

Michael Young is both overrated by the media and overpaid for his measurable contributions. But everything's relative. Young, batting in the middle of a very strong order this year, came up a lot with men on base. He also hit .377 with runners in scoring position. Neither RBI totals (Young had 106 despite only 11 HR), nor a season's worth of situational hitting, say much about a player's talent or projected value. But he really did do his part to help the Rangers get to the Series this year.
   27. Greg K Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:22 AM (#3965428)
Really?

The St. Louis franchise was a founding member of the American Association in 1882, then in 1892 made the switch to the National League. By the definition you're using the Astros are about the become an expansion team (again).

Not to say you're wrong about that. But you're using a definition that includes so many teams (every American League team as well) and goes so far beyond the generally held notion of "expansion teams" as to be the definition of pedantic.
   28. McCoy Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:30 AM (#3965454)
Geezus F'in Christ. It was a joke. It wasn't the world's greatest joke but geezus this is pathetic. And I got called pedantic?
   29. cardsfanboy Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:37 AM (#3965464)
Geezus F'in Christ. It was a joke. It wasn't the world's greatest joke but geezus this is pathetic. And I got called pedantic?


That is what I thought, I wasn't sure why people kept calling attention to it, when it seemed like just a throwaway comment/joke.
   30. zachtoma Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:41 AM (#3965473)
Has it struck anyone else that the Michael Young:Texas Rangers::Derek Jeter:New York Yankees analogy could hardly be more perfect? Every difference between them is of degree and not kind - Young is Jeter in a minor key.

Rangers have earned a World Series title this year. So have the Brewers, and both are playing for franchise flag #1 - it would be a tremendous series. If the Cardinals walk away with a title, this postseason is a bust. The fact that they are still playing a division rival they finished 6 games behind for the right to represent the NL is shameful enough.
   31. cardsfanboy Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:46 AM (#3965490)
If the Cardinals walk away with a title, this postseason is a bust.


I'm hoping for a busted post season then. Of course any game the Cardinals won in the post season I considered to be a minor victory, any series win is/was a bonus.
   32. zachtoma Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:54 AM (#3965507)
I'm hoping for a busted post season then. Of course any game the Cardinals won in the post season I considered to be a minor victory, any series win is/was a bonus.


Rooting interests are always excused, and of course, encouraged. It's just that the last thing I want to see as a baseball fan is the Cardinals taking the backdoor route to another title. Were I a Cards fan, I would unapologetically embrace the vagaries of post-season baseball.
   33. base ball chick Posted: October 17, 2011 at 01:44 AM (#3965633)
zachtoma Posted: October 16, 2011 at 08:41 PM (#3965473)

Has it struck anyone else that the Michael Young:Texas Rangers::Derek Jeter:New York Yankees analogy could hardly be more perfect? Every difference between them is of degree and not kind - Young is Jeter in a minor key.


- concur

theres just SOMEthing about michael young that makes sportswritesr moan and drool - imagine how theyd be if any team francoeur is on got in the postseason
   34. Cooper Nielson Posted: October 17, 2011 at 02:13 AM (#3965697)
It just seems like we don't hear much about Hamilton unless it's someone recounting his storied past for the umpteenth time.

Wait... what? Josh Hamilton seems like one of the most over-talked-about players in baseball to me. The dude has started four straight All-Star Games and won an MVP. He's been on magazine covers and national TV commercials. There is plenty of love out there for Josh Hamilton, a guy who has never hit more than 32 HR and has only once had an OBP over .371.

He's a really good player when he's healthy, but (i) he's rarely healthy and (ii) relative to the rest of his lineup, he doesn't really stand out. He has only clearly been the best hitter on his own team once, in 2010.

The 2011 Rangers have a bunch of hitters roughly at Hamilton's level*, but he and Michael Young are the only ones who ever got much national press before this October. He's not exactly one of baseball's quietly overlooked stars.

* Beltre, Napoli, Cruz, Kinsler, Young
   35. cardsfanboy Posted: October 17, 2011 at 04:57 AM (#3965925)
He's a really good player when he's healthy, but (i) he's rarely healthy and (ii) relative to the rest of his lineup, he doesn't really stand out. He has only clearly been the best hitter on his own team once, in 2010.


I mentioned it earlier, but Hamilton is JD Drew part deux.

JD Drew from ages 26-30 598 ga, 2374pa, 371 r, 99hr, 327rbi, 25sb, .284/.395/.507/.902/134 20.3war

Josh Hamilton career 589 ga, 2515pa, 368 runs, 118hr, 425rbi, 36sb, .308/.366/.543/.909/134 20.3war.

some differences to be sure, but really close. Hamilton has better clutch number apparently.
   36. Pat Rapper's Delight Posted: October 17, 2011 at 05:03 AM (#3965927)
imagine how theyd be if any team francoeur is on got in the postseason

Well, there was last year's Rangers team.....
   37. Eric J can SABER all he wants to Posted: October 17, 2011 at 05:12 AM (#3965931)
Has it struck anyone else that the Michael Young:Texas Rangers::Derek Jeter:New York Yankees analogy could hardly be more perfect?

Well, Jeter could have moved off of shortstop when his team acquired someone better suited to play the position. But apart from that, sure.
   38. Ron J Posted: October 17, 2011 at 09:31 AM (#3965959)
#26 He also kept backup middle infielders off the field by and large.

He may not have been happy with a supersub role but he did a great job in that role.
   39. AROM Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:00 PM (#3965985)
Young is similar to Jeter, but Jeter has been a lot better. This is especially apparent when you bring ballpark effects into consideration.
   40. Ebessan Posted: October 17, 2011 at 02:20 PM (#3966069)
Michael Young is apparently really ####### dreamy to sports writers.

He is white, after all.
   41. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: October 17, 2011 at 02:29 PM (#3966079)
He is white, after all.


Well, that makes him scrappy, not dreamy.
   42. JJ1986 Posted: October 17, 2011 at 02:34 PM (#3966087)
He is white, after all.


I think he's Mexican.
   43. Dangerous Dean Posted: October 17, 2011 at 04:20 PM (#3966200)
Been a Rangers fan since the mid 70s. I think that Young gets so much attention because he has been the Face of the Franchise since the early part of the Century. Arod was a better player while he was here, but Young has been a Ranger for over a decade. And Young has 3,000 hits as a Ranger.

Everyone who pointed out that Young is NOT the best Ranger hitter is right. He hits for average, but does it in a hitter-friendly park. He has never walked much or hit for much power. He has almost no range left at all in the infield.

I understand that he gets some of this love because he played 2b and SS for much of that time. In Rangers history, only Arod hit like a 1b and played a good SS at the same time.

I have thought that Young has been overpaid from the moment he signed the current contract. But all that said, he came up big vs Tampa in 2010 and came up big in the clincher this year.

I hope that Buck knows that Young is one of MANY talented hitters on the Rangers team this year. If he truly believes that he is the best in franchise history, then he is wrong. I would argue that Hamilton is the best hitter the Rangers have at the moment. I think Juan Gonzalez or Raffy Palmeiro are the most productive Ranger hitters of all time.
   44. Random Transaction Generator Posted: October 17, 2011 at 04:41 PM (#3966219)
ESTEBAN F***ING LOAIZA!

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