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Wednesday, July 22, 2009

Kovacevic: Adam LaRoche traded to Red Sox

UPDATE 11:47 a.m.: LaRoche is not in the lineup just posted.

11:58 a.m.: Word is that a LaRoche trade already is done, but this is unconfirmed. It also has not been denied by anyone with the team, either.

12:02 p.m.: Speculation among baseball people here from other teams is that LaRoche has been traded to the San Francisco Giants. Again, I stress, unconfirmed.

12:12 p.m.: LaRoche has been traded to the Boston Red Sox. No word on return yet. Still no official word of any kind from the team.

He never became a fan favorite, and his contract is about to end.

Garrett Jones would presumably take over at 1B for the rest of this year. With 8 home runs in 16 games (.286/.348/.746) he has the most homers of anyone on the Pirates if LaRoche and McLouth are both gone.

Crispix Attacks 2: Swag Airlines Posted: July 22, 2009 at 04:39 PM | 68 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
Tags: giants, pirates, red sox

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1. Repoz

Posted: July 22, 2009 at 05:42 PM (#3263005)

Make that 9 HR's now...

2. Coot Veal and Cot Deal make $486 every day Posted: July 22, 2009 at 05:42 PM (#3263006)

less weeping and gnashing of teeth in the Pirates clubhouse now, I'm guessing...

3. Hurdle's Heroes (SuperBaes) Posted: July 22, 2009 at 05:43 PM (#3263008)

Garrett Jones would presumably take over at 1B for the rest of this year

Allowing the Bucs to call up Milledge!

4. Atomizer Posted: July 22, 2009 at 05:44 PM (#3263009)

When asked for comment, LaRoche reportedly said, "I'm happy to be a -" before becoming distracted by something shiny.

5. Nasty Nate Posted: July 22, 2009 at 05:47 PM (#3263018)

he's not in the Pitt lineup today

6. Craig Calcaterra Posted: July 22, 2009 at 05:47 PM (#3263019)

When asked for comment, LaRoche reportedly said, "I'm happy to be a -" before becoming distracted by something shiny.

Oof. ADD humor?

7. Craig Calcaterra Posted: July 22, 2009 at 05:49 PM (#3263022)

The "haul"

According to multiple baseball sources, the Pirates will receive shortstop Argenis Diaz and pitcher Hunter Strickland when the deal is finalized. Diaz is known as a gifted defensive player, but there are questions about his bat. The 22-year-old Diaz is hitting .253/.309/.310 with Double-A Portland this year. Strickland, an 18th round pick in 2007, is 5-4 with a 3.35 ERA for the Greenville Drive of the Single-A South Atlantic League this year. The 6-foot-5 20-year-old has shown excellent command for the Drive, with a 51-13 strikeout-to-walk ratio in 83.1 innings this year.

8. Coot Veal and Cot Deal make $486 every day Posted: July 22, 2009 at 05:49 PM (#3263023)

Craig, any idea what's up with MSNBC's main page the last couple of days?

9. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: July 22, 2009 at 05:49 PM (#3263024)

Well, the Pirates are getting pretty much nothing. Argenis Diaz is a plus-plus glove who can't hit and never will hit. Hunter Strickland is yet another command guy who doesn't strike anybody out the Pirates can add to their gigantic collection of command guys who don't strike anyone out. Seems unlikely either was on track to be on the Red Sox' 40 man roster at any point in the future.

On the other hand, the Red Sox aren't really getting much either. LaRoche's bat is weak for a 1B in the NL Central; it may prove damn near unplayable in the AL East. And his ballyhooed defense is the Ausmus Effect*; plus/minus actually rates him as consistently downright bad for five years running. He's an average glove at best. And he's a free agent in two months, and I assume not a Type A. So it's a pretty 'eh' trade.

* Ausmus Effect: when people see a guy who doesn't hit up to the standards of his position, but plays every day anyway, and assume he must therefore be an awesome glove, and interpret all incoming evidence to fit that assumpion.

The interesting thing is, what are the Pirates going to do with Diaz? He's been in AA all year, but Altoona already has a shortstop (Brian Friday) who's been doing pretty well, but I don't think really well enough to move to AAA. Besides that, Brian Bixler's already manning SS in Indianapolis, and Friday's glove is good enough that you don't want to move him to 2B. So I imagine Diaz is going to A ball.

Unless this presages a Jack Wilson trade, which would allow for Bixler to move up to MLB and Friday to move up to AAA... neither is ready for it, but hey, this is the Pirates.

By the way, does it seem to anyone else like maybe the Pirates are consciously pursuing an organizational philosophy of playing strong defense (at least up the middle) and pitching to contact?

10. Tripon Posted: July 22, 2009 at 05:49 PM (#3263025)

Andy LaRoche feels betrayed!

11. haven Posted: July 22, 2009 at 05:50 PM (#3263026)

Reported return is P Hunter Strickland and SS Argenis Diaz.

12. SteveF Posted: July 22, 2009 at 05:54 PM (#3263039)

End of the road for Kotsay? Presumably this is Mike Lowell insurance (Youkilis to 3rd, Laroche to first). And even if healthy, they likely will only play Lowell 4-5 games a week to keep him healthy for a possible playoff run.

13. 33Boots Posted: July 22, 2009 at 05:54 PM (#3263040)

If he has his usual second half, he's an easy type B. They got two bags of balls in return. The Pirates are pathetic. Another great move for the Sox. If he plays well, they get half a season of that plus they turn two at best Cs into a sandwich pick.

14. Nasty Nate Posted: July 22, 2009 at 05:56 PM (#3263043)

Andy LaRoche feels betrayed!

...but secretly relieved at no longer being known as An. Laroche in box scores!

15. Craig Calcaterra Posted: July 22, 2009 at 05:57 PM (#3263045)

Craig, any idea what's up with MSNBC's main page the last couple of days?

No clue. They don't tell me nothin' anyway.

16. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: July 22, 2009 at 05:57 PM (#3263049)

Yeah, maybe, but to be honest there was probably value to the Pirates simply in getting LaRoche, who has been ######## almost nonstop, out of town.

17. The District Attorney Posted: July 22, 2009 at 05:57 PM (#3263050)

Ausmus Effect: when people see a guy who doesn't hit up to the standards of his position, but plays every day anyway, and assume he must therefore be an awesome glove, and interpret all incoming evidence to fit that assumpion.

We've already got a phrase for that.

18. JJ1986 Posted: July 22, 2009 at 05:57 PM (#3263048)

19. Chris Dial Posted: July 22, 2009 at 05:57 PM (#3263051)

Nice work, Omar!

20. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: July 22, 2009 at 05:58 PM (#3263055)

We've already got a phrase for that.

It takes so damn long to type, though!

21. Shock Posted: July 22, 2009 at 05:59 PM (#3263056)

Nooooo. I loved "A. Laroche grounds out to 2B, A. Laroche scores."

22. 33Boots Posted: July 22, 2009 at 06:05 PM (#3263060)

I don't think you can possibly offer him arbitration. He'll just take it.

23. Best Regards, L.M. Posted: July 22, 2009 at 06:07 PM (#3263066)

Outstanding move for the Red Sox -- I don't know if it improves their everyday lineup much, but it certainly makes their bench much more dangerous, and they can shop Lowell if they can find something useful for him.

24. Joey B. has ignited his October #Natitude Posted: July 22, 2009 at 06:09 PM (#3263072)

The Pirates are pathetic.

I couldn't agree more; this is just ridiculous. It's like they're trying to prove that they're even more incompetent than the Royals and Nationals. It's amazing that Pirates fans don't just go into total revolt.

25. Danny Posted: July 22, 2009 at 06:10 PM (#3263074)

they can shop Lowell if they can find something useful for him.

Is this sarcasm?

26. The Marksist Posted: July 22, 2009 at 06:12 PM (#3263076)

Argenis Diaz is a plus-plus glove who can't hit and never will hit.

Reports are Diaz struggles with focus and on easy plays but makes hard stuff look easy. Oh, and he was already on the Sox 40 man.

27. RJ in TO Posted: July 22, 2009 at 06:14 PM (#3263082)

I don't think you can possibly offer him arbitration. He'll just take it.

Is that so bad?

For a team on a budget? Yeah, it's that bad, unless you like the idea of the Pirates getting reamed for somewhere close to $10M for a roughly league average 1B.

28. Shooty is in the Trust Tree

Posted: July 22, 2009 at 06:15 PM (#3263084)

The Pirates aren't getting much, but what the are they supposed to do with LaRoche? There's not much demand for him and there was no way they were going to offer him arb. So they bought a couple of lottery tickets and saved some cash. I can only assume the Giants preferred Bowker and Ishikawa more than LaRoche. And if the Giants didn't want him, that was pretty much the market.

29. Martin Hemner

Posted: July 22, 2009 at 06:15 PM (#3263085)

Is that so bad? I don't know exactly who he's comparable with, but he's coming off a $5m salary. If he's not due too much raise, on the field it's justifiable. The Pirates don't have an obvious internal replacement. Probably can't get anybody better in FA for the salary. Admittedly, I didn't know he's got an attitude issue.

I'm not sure he merits it, but I assume Pedro Alvarez is the internal replacement. Maybe they expect him to be up by next spring, so they would save the cash that would be spent on Adam.

30. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: July 22, 2009 at 06:19 PM (#3263091)

It's amazing that Pirates fans don't just go into total revolt.

What Pirates fans?

Anyway, the Pirates didn't give up anything, so I don't know why you'd expect them to get anything back. Basically the Red Sox are taking LaRoche's remaining contract off their hands and saving them a little money.

I'm not sure he merits it, but I assume Pedro Alvarez is the internal replacement. Maybe they expect him to be up by next spring, so save the cash that would be spent on Adam...

Alvarez has been in AA for a month and at this point, if the game is close at all or if anyone's on base, AA pitchers just don't throw him fastballs anymore. It's breaking ball, breaking ball, breaking ball, breaking ball, and usually four pitches is all it takes to strike him out. He hits humongous bombs on the occasions when someone throws him a fastball over the plate, or hangs a slider. But Alvarez still can't hit breaking stuff, and therefore is not especially close to the majors. Unless something just instantly clicks for him, you can't expect him to be up before 2011. Jose Tabata is closer to being a major league hitter than Alvarez is (but then, I suspect Tabata is older than Alvarez is).

31. Repoz

Posted: July 22, 2009 at 06:20 PM (#3263096)

No clue. They don't tell me nothin' anyway.

I thought you weren't with Fanhouse any longer...

32. robinred

Posted: July 22, 2009 at 06:22 PM (#3263100)

How many white guys do the Red Sox need, for Christ sakes?

33. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: July 22, 2009 at 06:25 PM (#3263107)

How many white guys do the Red Sox need, for Christ sakes?

If they need some more, the Pirates also have a shortstop and a couple lefthanded pitchers that still run great, lots of tread on the tires, and we'll even throw in the floormats, for the low, low price of Clay Buchholz...

34. bibigon Posted: July 22, 2009 at 06:30 PM (#3263113)

If they need some more, the Pirates also have a shortstop and a couple lefthanded pitchers that still run great, lots of tread on the tires, and we'll even throw in the floormats, for the low, low price of Clay Buchholz...

No dice. He's a valued future white contributor himself. How about Junichi Tazawa, Stolmy Pimentel, Yamaico Navarro, or Che-Hsuan Lin?

35. Tom Nawrocki Posted: July 22, 2009 at 06:35 PM (#3263122)

So this leaves Edgar and Adrian Gonzalez as the only current brother teammates, right? Maybe the Sox will pick up Stephen Drew, too.

36. bibigon Posted: July 22, 2009 at 06:42 PM (#3263136)

So this leaves Edgar and Adrian Gonzalez as the only current brother teammates, right? Maybe the Sox will pick up Stephen Drew, too.

Get Levski in here, stat. Buchholz and Bowden for Drew?

37. hokieneer Posted: July 22, 2009 at 06:47 PM (#3263143)

Was Nick Johnson too much, that the Sox had to go after Laroche?

Some how this is all Jeff Suppan's fault. Suppan was originally a Red Sox before Arizona took him in the expansion draft. Then the sox traded Freddy Sanchez and Mike Gonzalez to the Pirates for 70 innings or so of 5.50+ ERA from Suppan. Gonzalez was swapped for Laroche a few years ago, and now Laroche is traded to Boston for a middle infield and a pitching prospect.

38. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: July 22, 2009 at 06:54 PM (#3263156)

That's not really the story on Gonzalez. He was a Pirates draftee, traded to Boston as part of a four-man deal (Gonzo and Sauerbeck for Brandon Lyon and Anastacio Martinez), then returned to Pittsburgh as part of a revised deal after Lyon failed his physical.

39. hokieneer Posted: July 22, 2009 at 06:57 PM (#3263164)

to vlad:

I see I see. Always assumed Boston gave up him and Sanchez for Suppan. Either I had forgotten or was oblivious to the Lyon part in the trade, well turned out to be "2 trades".

40. TerpNats Posted: July 22, 2009 at 06:58 PM (#3263166)

1. Pittsburgh once again know how Kansas City Athletics fans felt.

2. With the Bosox axquiring LaRoche, the Giants now become the front-runner in the Nick Johnson sweepstakes...if there is one. With the Mets' freefall, they may no longer be interested in Johnson.

41. Shooty is in the Trust Tree

Posted: July 22, 2009 at 07:02 PM (#3263174)

1. Pittsburgh once again know how Kansas City Athletics fans felt.

The final nail in that coffin made of empathetic feeling will be when the Pirates put together the makings of a dynasty but move to Portland 2 years before it comes to fruition.

42. Pat Rapper's Delight Posted: July 22, 2009 at 07:02 PM (#3263176)

The Pirates are pathetic.

That's just the way MLB is these days. The Pirates will never be able to compete until they can get a new taxpayer-funded ballpark that will change their market size and allow them to better compete with the rich teams.

43. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: July 22, 2009 at 07:10 PM (#3263192)

This is a pretty meager return, but LaRoche is having a marginal season (.770 OPS, 108 OPS+) and is right in the middle of a horrendous slump, so I'm not sure how much demand there really was out there.

44. haven Posted: July 22, 2009 at 07:16 PM (#3263208)

The Pirates are pathetic.

This is true, but not for the reasons you think.......

I have no idea if Huntington will dig the Pirates out of the mess they find themselves in, but he has not been on the job that long and took over a moribund organization. The Pirates were bereft of talent. Anyone that thinks the trades of Bay, Nady, McLouth, Morgan, Burnett or LaRoche is what makes the Pirates pathetic simply wasn't paying attention. Sadly enough none of those players were doing the Pirates any good at all. Will the collection of players brought back in these deals do the Pirates any good. The drafts. International signings. I got no idea. Obviously every move isn't going to work out. Maybe Huntington's talent evaluation skills will prove to be poor and nothing will work out and nothing will be different in three or four years. But Huntington is simply going about doing what had to be done.

45. The Ghost of Sox Fans Past

Posted: July 22, 2009 at 07:22 PM (#3263221)

When asked for comment, LaRoche reportedly said, "I'm happy to be a -" before becoming distracted by something shiny.

When I got to the closed quote, I assumed the next part would be " - where was it they traded me?"

46. Greg Goosen at 30 Posted: July 22, 2009 at 07:30 PM (#3263239)

I've heard the Pirate sre paying part of LaRoche's salary as they are for Hinske to the Yankees. Any word on how much?

47. Ignatius J. Reilly Posted: July 22, 2009 at 07:36 PM (#3263263)

2. With the Bosox axquiring LaRoche, the Giants now become the front-runner in the Nick Johnson sweepstakes...if there is one. With the Mets' freefall, they may no longer be interested in Johnson.

I'd like to see Johnson to the Braves. The Nats don't have much leverage cause Johnson isn't gonna qualify for draft pick compensation, right?

48. TerpNats Posted: July 22, 2009 at 07:41 PM (#3263276)

I'd like to see Johnson to the Braves. The Nats don't have much leverage cause Johnson isn't gonna qualify for draft pick compensation, right?

True.

I hadn't heard the Braves involvvd in this Johnson talk, but until a few days ago neither were the Giants. The Mets and Red Sox were discussed as possble trade destinations for quite a few months -- perhaps because their baseball media are more aggressive than Atlanta's or San Francisco's, perhaps because there are so many New York and Boston emigres in D.C..

49. Stratman01 Posted: July 22, 2009 at 07:43 PM (#3263281)

You heard incorrectly Greg. The Pirates aren't paying a dime of the 2.95 million

http://community.post-gazette.com/blogs/pbc/default.aspx

50. ekogan Posted: July 22, 2009 at 09:05 PM (#3263431)

The relevant question for the Red Sox is "Is Laroche better than Kotsay as a backup 1B?". At first, it seems obvious, since Kotsay can't hit. But here's what I get after adding ZiPS (ROS) projections from fangraphs and UZR/150 divided by two (since there's half a season remaining).

LaRoche: 4.9 (batting) + -1.4 (fielding) = 3.5
Kotsay: -0.7 (wRAA) + 2.3 (UZR) = 1.6

Two run upgrade in half a season? That's practically equal. Seems like a pretty pointless trade.

51. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: July 22, 2009 at 09:14 PM (#3263444)

I'm really skeptical a guy that hits .329/.441 in the AL Central can even hit well enough to stay in the lineup at 1B in the AL East, to be honest. He's going to have to flash that hot-second-half skill again to be worth his lineup spot in Boston.

52. ekogan Posted: July 22, 2009 at 09:20 PM (#3263455)

In addition, according to Fangraphs pitch values, LaRoche is a much better fastball hitter than offspeed. Kotsay is equally sucky against all types of pitches. NL is more of a fastball heavy league than AL. I think LaRoche will face a tough adjustment to the AL.

53. bibigon Posted: July 22, 2009 at 09:38 PM (#3263487)

They just picked up Chris Duncan for Julio Lugo too...

54. puck Posted: July 22, 2009 at 09:41 PM (#3263491)

That really happened?

55. bibigon Posted: July 22, 2009 at 09:41 PM (#3263493)

Yeah. Rotoworld has it.

56. Raskolnikov Posted: July 22, 2009 at 09:41 PM (#3263494)

Nice move for the Sox. Chris Duncan should do well at Fenway.

I guess that means the Mets are stuck with Cora and Berroa for the time being.

57. Danny Posted: July 22, 2009 at 09:42 PM (#3263495)

Did they eat Lugo's whole contract?

58. SouthSideRyan Posted: July 22, 2009 at 09:43 PM (#3263497)

What a steal by the BoSox. A rock solid 140 OPS+ for Lugo's corpse?

59. Swedish Chef Posted: July 22, 2009 at 09:43 PM (#3263498)

They just picked up Chris Duncan for Julio Lugo too...

Addition by subtraction.

60. hokieneer Posted: July 22, 2009 at 09:46 PM (#3263501)

They just picked up Chris Duncan for Julio Lugo too...

Just went to bref, Chris Duncan has sucked the last 2 years. Here I thought he's been a 100 OPS+ type of player that kills lefties.

61. esseff Posted: July 22, 2009 at 09:50 PM (#3263506)

Duncan had a first of its kind (for a pro athlete) spinal disc replacement last summer and hasn't been the same player sense. I presume he's headed for Pawtucket.

62. hokieneer Posted: July 22, 2009 at 09:54 PM (#3263512)

^ well then my apologies for saying he sucks.

63. Raskolnikov Posted: July 22, 2009 at 09:56 PM (#3263518)

Yikes, spinal disc replacement. Forget about playing baseball, I just hope Duncan can keep reasonable back mobility in the coming years. In that case, it's a pure dump for the Bosox.

64. ekogan Posted: July 22, 2009 at 10:16 PM (#3263552)

I would guess that Kotsay is DFA'd. Duncan goes to Pawtucket and will be called up if a starting OF goes down, in which case he will platoon with Baldelli. Total trade balance for the Sawx: a utility infielder and a future utility infielder for a platoon 1B and an emergency corner OF. Solid minor moves.

65. esseff Posted: July 22, 2009 at 10:31 PM (#3263566)

In #61, sense = since.

66. Comic Strip Person Posted: July 23, 2009 at 01:00 AM (#3263772)

LaRoche's bat is weak for a 1B in the NL Central; it may prove damn near unplayable in the AL East.

Maybe I'm missing what you're saying here. I know that the AL East is a better division than the NL Central, but it seems like you're saying that the AL East first basemen are better than the NL Central first basemen, and so LaRoche will look even worse by comparison. I don't see it. Between the two divisions, Runs Created, VORP, and OPS all suggest the ranking of first basemen to be something like this:

Pujols
Fielder
Votto
Youkilis
Berkman
Teixiera
Pena
Lee
Huff or LaRoche
LaRoche or Huff
Whoever Toronto Sends Out

LaRoche is terrible for a first baseman, but in the NL Central, it actually stands out more than it does in the AL East.

67. Infinite Joost (Voxter)

Posted: July 23, 2009 at 01:06 AM (#3263782)

I think he's saying that the pitching is better in the AL East.

68. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: July 23, 2009 at 03:18 AM (#3263930)

I'm saying the pitching is way, way better in the AL East. I'm saying the overall talent gap between the AL East and the NL Central is likely similar to the talent gap between the NL Central and the IL North.

69. Nasty Nate Posted: July 23, 2009 at 03:46 AM (#3263942)

well he also played 3 years in the NL east

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Wednesday, July 22, 2009

Kovacevic: Adam LaRoche traded to Red Sox

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