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Sunday, July 05, 2009

Kovacevic: Giants eye Sanchez, LaRoche

The Pirates and San Francisco have had trade talks regarding second baseman Freddy Sanchez and, to a lesser extent, first baseman Adam LaRoche, each of whom can be a free agent after this season.

The Giants have had a scout following Sanchez, a source confirmed yesterday, and their interest in LaRoche goes back several months. Their preference at first base, though, is for a right-handed bat.

Sanchez has a vesting option in his contract that allows him to trigger an $8.5 million option if he achieves 635 plate appearances or 600 plate appearances plus an All-Star berth. The latter will be known today when selections are made.

LaRoche is the Pirates’ second-highest paid player at $7.05 million, and there is some skepticism within the team that he can be moved with about half of that amount still due.

Thanks to Ralph Birkofer the Season.

Repoz Posted: July 05, 2009 at 12:54 PM | 68 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
Tags: giants, pirates, rumors

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1. Steve Balboni's Personal Trainer Posted: July 05, 2009 at 01:52 PM (#3242482)

1) Would Sanchez want to activate that clause? I mean, $8.5 million is a lot of money, but it's only for one additional year, and he would have to play with the Pirates (if he wasn't traded).
2) If the Pirates were to trade both players to SF, there would be about $7 million in salary owed. That's a lot of money for those two players. As usual, the Pirates are in a corner, where in order to get decent prospects back from the Giants, they'll have to eat much of the money owed. Even then, they are unlikely to get enough talent to solve their fundamental problem: the lack of talent in the organization.

Personally, I think Sanchez might be their most tradable commodity, with the possible exceptions of Capps and Duke. With that option, though, I'm not sure...maybe their strategy should be to acquire as many Type A free agents-to-be as possible, offer them all arbitration, since none of them will want to be in Pittsburgh in 2010, and then go bananas with the comp drafts picks next June.

Whatever - that was just a lark, but then again, so are the Pirates...

2. MM1f Posted: July 05, 2009 at 02:47 PM (#3242503)

I love Freddy Sanchez. I don't know if I love his option next year but he is a heck of a nice little player to root for

3. rfloh Posted: July 05, 2009 at 02:58 PM (#3242506)

I wonder what the Pirates are looking for from the Giants. Sanchez would be a great pickup for the Giants. A huge improvement on the crap they have at 2b. Even the option would be a good thing if he triggers it, he won't be blocking anyone.

4. Steve Balboni's Personal Trainer Posted: July 05, 2009 at 03:01 PM (#3242508)

I like Sanchez a lot, too - in fact, he may be the last trade-deadline prospect the Pirates acquired that turned out to be a very good ballplayer (the Red Sox traded him to get Jeff Suppan - oops!)

5. OCD SS Posted: July 05, 2009 at 03:44 PM (#3242517)

Man, you don't even want to get Sox fans started on the Suppan deal.

6. Darren

Posted: July 05, 2009 at 03:50 PM (#3242519)

Hey, it wasn't just Suppan--they also got Saurback.... um, never mind.

7. PASTE is not impressed by Albert Pujols (Zeth) Posted: July 05, 2009 at 03:51 PM (#3242520)

LOL @ Blown Save Sauerbeck

Do the Giants have some good talent in the low minors? If I were the Pirates I'd be looking for a little pupu platter of young B prospects, preferably position players.

8. tshipman

Posted: July 05, 2009 at 04:30 PM (#3242540)

LaRoche is the Pirates’ second-highest paid player at $7.05 million, and there is some skepticism within the team that he can be moved with about half of that amount still due.

Does this mean the Giants can pick him up if they agree to pay freight? That seems like an excellent idea for the Giants, who are not poor. Who do the Giants have who isn't Alderson or Baumgartner? Can we re-sign Matt Morris so we can trade him again?

9. PASTE is not impressed by Albert Pujols (Zeth) Posted: July 05, 2009 at 04:36 PM (#3242543)

I guess one solution to the Pirates' clubhouse mutiny problem is to ship the elder LaRoche, Sanchez and Wilson all out of town. That'll show 'em.

10. Justin 'The Cespedobear' T Posted: July 05, 2009 at 04:43 PM (#3242549)

Travis Ishikawa is .307/.370/.531 since May 11. He's not that good, but I think people should stop thinking of him as the black hole he was the first month. Laroche may not be that big of an upgrade, if he is one at all for the rest of this season.

11. Biff isn't really an apt handle anymore Posted: July 05, 2009 at 05:03 PM (#3242556)

Suppan: sucked for the Red Sox, didn't even make the playoff roster, bounced back to be a decent pitcher in the NL again. Yeah, screw him.

12. Alex_Lewis Posted: July 05, 2009 at 05:20 PM (#3242566)

Does this mean the Giants can pick him up if they agree to pay freight? That seems like an excellent idea for the Giants, who are not poor. Who do the Giants have who isn't Alderson or Baumgartner? Can we re-sign Matt Morris so we can trade him again?

There's Posey, but he isn't going anywhere. Jonathan Sanchez is considered tradeable, as is Fred Lewis (though Lord knows why). I don't think that the Pirates would (or should) have any interest in Fred Lewis.

13. PASTE is not impressed by Albert Pujols (Zeth) Posted: July 05, 2009 at 05:30 PM (#3242569)

Jonathan Sanchez is exactly the kind of guy the old Pirates would target, a 26 year old pitcher with a 5.21 career ERA and the ratios to back it up. If the Pirates acquire him for anything I'm writing off the Huntingdon Era as officially Meet the New Pirates, Same as the Old Pirates.

14. Alex_Lewis Posted: July 05, 2009 at 05:37 PM (#3242573)

Jonathan Sanchez is exactly the kind of guy the old Pirates would target, a 26 year old pitcher with a 5.21 career ERA and the ratios to back it up. If the Pirates acquire him for anything I'm writing off the Huntingdon Era as officially Meet the New Pirates, Same as the Old Pirates.

If that Giants can turn Jonathan into Freddy, I shall be quite pleased. How is Sanchez as a fielder, by the way? Can't say I catch many Pittsburgh games.

Sorry about your being a Pirates fan. That must suck.

15. PASTE is not impressed by Albert Pujols (Zeth) Posted: July 05, 2009 at 05:45 PM (#3242582)

Sorry about your being a Pirates fan. That must suck.

Don't ever accuse me of that again, you dirty ############. Insult my dead mother or question my sexual preference if you must, but... don't cross that line.

16. Alex_Lewis Posted: July 05, 2009 at 05:45 PM (#3242584)

Sorry! <slinks away>

17. rfloh Posted: July 05, 2009 at 05:46 PM (#3242585)

Who do the Giants have who isn't Alderson or Baumgartner? Can we re-sign Matt Morris so we can trade him again?

Posey was mentioned. Villalona isn't doing all that well, but is obviously very young for his levels. I don't see them giving up any of those 4 for Freddy Sanchez, good player though he is.

18. PASTE is not impressed by Albert Pujols (Zeth) Posted: July 05, 2009 at 05:50 PM (#3242586)

I'm not sure I would trade Buster Posey for the Pirates' entire 40 man roster... if the Pirates offered, say, A. McCutchen, Alvarez, Tabata and Duke, I suppose that would fetch Posey. So I guess they have that going for them. Slim pickings after that, though...

19. Tripon Posted: July 05, 2009 at 06:03 PM (#3242593)

McCutchen will be a better player over Posey.

20. Hurdle's Heroes (SuperBaes) Posted: July 05, 2009 at 06:36 PM (#3242622)

McCutchen will be a better player over Posey.

Agreed.

Jonathan Sanchez is exactly the kind of guy the old Pirates would target, a 26 year old pitcher with a 5.21 career ERA and the ratios to back it up. If the Pirates acquire him for anything I'm writing off the Huntingdon Era as officially Meet the New Pirates, Same as the Old Pirates.

Yet this is very much like what the Pirates are doing now. Acquiring "former elite prospects" is the new spin, but it looks eerily like both the Sanchez deal (win) and the Bobby Hill deal (horrible, horrible loss). The mindboggling sideways moves/attempts at mediocrity are what marked the old Pirates: Matt Morris (obviously), signing old fa's (Listach, Bell, Loften), putting the short-term relationship with the fan base ahead of the long-term (I understand the Kendall contract, but it really hampered the financials for years), and MISERABLE drafting/developing (Moskos, Burnett, Van Benschoeten).

Alex is right: being a Pirates fan sucks.

21. Crispix Attacks Posted: July 05, 2009 at 06:40 PM (#3242629)

The Bobby Hill deal was one of those that they made after spending more than a year proclaiming that they desperately had to trade one of their stars (in this case, Aramis Ramirez) as soon as possible because his contract was bankrupting the team. At least they aren't doing that anymore.

22. rfloh Posted: July 05, 2009 at 06:59 PM (#3242651)

21. Crispix Attacks Posted: July 05, 2009 at 02:40 PM (#3242629)
The Bobby Hill deal was one of those that they made after spending more than a year proclaiming that they desperately had to trade one of their stars (in this case, Aramis Ramirez) as soon as possible because his contract was bankrupting the team.

They first made the star play through injuries. Then, they badmouthed his attitude in public. Then, they proclaimed that they just HAD to trade him. Predictably they not only got crap back, but had to throw in another decent player into the package.

23. PASTE is not impressed by Albert Pujols (Zeth) Posted: July 05, 2009 at 07:04 PM (#3242660)

Well, acquiring guys like Tabata, Hernandez, Milledge and Hanrahan is pretty significant progress for the Pirates, I think. Littlefield wouldn't even have asked for those kinds of guys. But good god, if they have even the slightest interest in Jonathan Sanchez... Sanchez may not even honestly be good enough to stick in the Pirates' rotation. He sucks.

24. SouthSideRyan Posted: July 05, 2009 at 08:01 PM (#3242719)

Predictably they not only got crap back, but had to throw in another decent player into the package.

And inexplicably took Jose Hernandez back, supposedly because they needed a 3B to replace Ramirez. Oh, and they waived Matt Bruback(the 3rd player they received) about a month after they acquired him.

25. Walt Davis Posted: July 05, 2009 at 08:31 PM (#3242753)

Oh, and they waived Matt Bruback(the 3rd player they received) about a month after they acquired him.

And they never gave Hill any playing time. It's almost as if the Pirates' main motivation was screwing over Houston and St Louis.

Actually it was just the worst-executed salary dump of all time.

26. PASTE is not impressed by Albert Pujols (Zeth) Posted: July 05, 2009 at 08:35 PM (#3242762)

Which is funny because the Pirates were on the bending-over end of the best executed salary dump of all time, too.

27. Mike Emeigh

Posted: July 05, 2009 at 08:52 PM (#3242781)

Do the Giants have some good talent in the low minors?

Yes, but nothing they'd give up for Freddy Sanchez.

I don't know if Joe Martinez is anything close to healthy (he's rehabbing at San Jose right now after being drilled by a Mike Cameron line drive early this year), but he'd be in the mix if he is. Kevin Pucetas might be in the mix as well, and Matt Downs could be a potential replacement for Sanchez. I'd expect any trade with the Giants to involve players of that ilk rather than the Bumgarners, Aldersons, Poseys, and Nick Noonans.

-- MWE

28. Mike Emeigh

Posted: July 05, 2009 at 08:53 PM (#3242782)

They first made the star play through injuries. Then, they badmouthed his attitude in public. Then, they proclaimed that they just HAD to trade him.

Sounds like Ian Snell (except that the injuries were apparently psychological and not physical, but you get the picture...)

-- MWE

29. Tripon Posted: July 05, 2009 at 09:02 PM (#3242791)

Ian Snell is a star?

30. Mike Emeigh

Posted: July 05, 2009 at 09:07 PM (#3242802)

Ian Snell is a star?

Well, he WAS the number #1 starter for the team two years ago.

-- MWE

31. Steve Treder Posted: July 05, 2009 at 09:14 PM (#3242810)

I'd expect any trade with the Giants to involve players of that ilk rather than the Bumgarners, Aldersons, Poseys, and Nick Noonans.

Let's hope so! :-)

32. 3Com Park Posted: July 05, 2009 at 09:27 PM (#3242821)

The Pirates have nothing at middle infield, so Frandsen would probably be part of the package, and maybe a minor league pitcher like Kevin Pucetas.

I doubt the Pirates would get Sanchez as part of the package, with the Giants having to take on that much salary.

33. PASTE is not impressed by Albert Pujols (Zeth) Posted: July 05, 2009 at 09:39 PM (#3242825)

You talk about Sanchez like he's a commodity of value, rather than a replacement level pitcher. I guess if people connected to the Giants keep pretending to believe that unwaveringly, they might convince some gullible GM to believe it long enough to make a terrible mistake...

34. Alex_Lewis Posted: July 05, 2009 at 09:43 PM (#3242827)

He's left-handed, he throws hard. You know how people are about that. There could be a Rick Peterson-level fool who believes that with a simple adjustment, Sanchez will become a Cy Young candidate.

35. Tripon Posted: July 05, 2009 at 10:04 PM (#3242840)

He throws his fastball with movement, but he doesn't throw it hard. Sanchez's fastball tops out at 91.

36. tshipman

Posted: July 05, 2009 at 10:11 PM (#3242846)

Sanchez's fastball tops out at 91.

That's pretty hard for a lefty. However, I would say that I've seen him hit 93-94 fairly regularly.

37. Alex_Lewis Posted: July 05, 2009 at 10:14 PM (#3242849)

91.2 average according to FanGraphs... I'd say that's different from 'tops out' at 91. Even assuming that he never throws a ball harder than 91 (statistically impossible), I still consider that to be good velocity for a left-hander. In 2009, Randy Johnson has averaged 90.2 for his fastball. I think the Big Unit still throws hard, too.

38. Steve Treder Posted: July 05, 2009 at 10:26 PM (#3242854)

Sanchez's problem isn't velocity; indeed it isn't "stuff" in any sense. His problem is, plain and simple, control.

Lots of pitchers with his profile never pan out, of course, but nevertheless the list of pitchers (particularly left-handers, it seems, though I'm not certain that's true) with first-rate stuff who struggled with command for several years and then finally put it together in their mid-to-late 20s is very long as well. The Giants have been wise to not be impatient with him, and they would be unwise to dump him off cheaply.

39. Alex_Lewis Posted: July 05, 2009 at 10:28 PM (#3242856)

What if it nets you Freddy Sanchez and Adam LaRoche? I'm not wild about LaRoche, but Sanchez would be a -considerable- improvement over... whomever else is at second. I mean, that's a playoffs type difference, right there, and the Giants are not exactly light on pitching.

40. Steve Treder Posted: July 05, 2009 at 10:33 PM (#3242858)

What if it nets you Freddy Sanchez and Adam LaRoche?

Well, that wouldn't be dumping him off cheaply, though the contract status of both Freddy Sanchez and LaRoche lowers their value a bit.

41. Tripon Posted: July 05, 2009 at 10:34 PM (#3242860)

There's the flip side that Sanchez has to hang just long enough to land a big payday like Oliver Perez got from the Mets in the off season.

And they're still waiting on him.

42. Alex_Lewis Posted: July 05, 2009 at 10:34 PM (#3242861)

Yeah, I guess I skimmed over that 'cheaply' bit...

43. Bhaakon Posted: July 05, 2009 at 10:37 PM (#3242864)

It looks like Randy Johnson injured his pitching shoulder on an awkward swing in today's game, so the Giants may be less likely to move Sanchez for the time being.

44. Steve Treder Posted: July 05, 2009 at 10:45 PM (#3242871)

It looks like Randy Johnson injured his pitching shoulder on an awkward swing in today's game, so the Giants may be less likely to move Sanchez for the time being.

Yeah, they'll know better tomorrow whether Johnson is genuinely hurt or not, but if he is, that probably puts the kibosh on a Sanchez trade for the time being.

45. retro-shiite Posted: July 05, 2009 at 10:51 PM (#3242873)

Which is funny because the Pirates were on the bending-over end of the best executed salary dump of all time, too.

I'm drawing a blank...which one was that?

46. Bhaakon Posted: July 05, 2009 at 10:59 PM (#3242881)

Giles for Bay and Perez, most likely.

47. PASTE is not impressed by Albert Pujols (Zeth) Posted: July 05, 2009 at 11:10 PM (#3242891)

Matt Morris. Hence the term 'bending-over end'.

48. tshipman

Posted: July 06, 2009 at 12:04 AM (#3242918)

What if it nets you Freddy Sanchez and Adam LaRoche? I'm not wild about LaRoche, but Sanchez would be a -considerable- improvement over... whomever else is at second. I mean, that's a playoffs type difference, right there, and the Giants are not exactly light on pitching.

If Sanchez nets LaRoche and F. Sanchez, that deal needs to be made yesterday. Big Unit injury or not, the Giants have been lucky to get where they're at currently, and improving substantially at 2B and 1B, two humongous holes, would make a big difference to the team's fortunes going forward.

49. Alex_Lewis Posted: July 06, 2009 at 12:07 AM (#3242919)

If Sanchez nets LaRoche and F. Sanchez, that deal needs to be made yesterday. Big Unit injury or not, the Giants have been lucky to get where they're at currently, and improving substantially at 2B and 1B, two humongous holes, would make a big difference to the team's fortunes going forward.

I'm certain there would be a few other players involved. Minor league talent of some stripe, including one of the Giants' AAAA middle infielders.

50. tshipman

Posted: July 06, 2009 at 12:22 AM (#3242927)

I'm certain there would be a few other players involved. Minor league talent of some stripe, including one of the Giants' AAAA middle infielders.

I'm pretty sure that Giants AAAA middle infielders don't have long-term prospects worth evaluating. Emmanuel Burriss has a 49 OPS+. If they're not better than that, they're not much use.

51. Bhaakon Posted: July 06, 2009 at 12:22 AM (#3242928)

Matt Morris. Hence the term 'bending-over end'.

I took that to mean that they were bending someone else over (a table, presumably).

I'm pretty sure that Giants AAAA middle infielders don't have long-term prospects worth evaluating. Emmanuel Burriss has a 49 OPS+. If they're not better than that, they're not much use.

Except as stop-gaps to fill out the holes on the roster made by the trade.

52. rfloh Posted: July 06, 2009 at 01:38 AM (#3242951)

If Sanchez nets LaRoche and F. Sanchez, that deal needs to be made yesterday.

If Sanchez nets LaRoche and Freddy Sanchez, together with a couple filler types like Burriss or Frandsen or Velez thrown in, that deal would likely have been made yesterday.

That is a pretty damn crappy trade for the Pirates. The "prize" is a poor man's Oliver Perez. They already had the original version once.

53. Ron Johnson Posted: July 06, 2009 at 04:30 AM (#3243015)

#15 "Hey you guys,I don't mind if you call me ########## or ############ or sonofabitch -- but lay off the personal stuff will you?"

Babr Ruth, 1922 World Series

EDIT: Not clear what he was objecting to, but he once went into the stands after a heckler who called him a "No good bum".

54. Walt Davis Posted: July 06, 2009 at 10:15 AM (#3243094)

What do people have against Adam LaRoche? Over the last 3.5 seasons, he's got a 120 OPS+, playing about 150 games a year. What more do you want? How about a reasonable contract -- only $3.5 M the rest of the year.

55. Tripon Posted: July 11, 2009 at 04:40 AM (#3249981)

And that sound is Jonathan Sanchez's trade value skyrocketing.

Dude just threw a no hitter.

56. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: July 11, 2009 at 04:44 AM (#3249985)

First time someone has been an error away from a perfect game?

57. Every Inge Counts Posted: July 11, 2009 at 04:45 AM (#3249987)

Bud Smith would be proud.

58. puck Posted: July 11, 2009 at 04:48 AM (#3249991)

First time someone has been an error away from a perfect game?

I think Jerry Reuss did this for the Dodgers in 1980 against the Giants. Bill Russell made the error.

Edit: This game.

59. Tripon Posted: July 11, 2009 at 04:49 AM (#3249992)

Juan Uribe might be fatter than Pablo Sandoval.

60. Shock Posted: July 11, 2009 at 04:54 AM (#3249994)

First time someone has been an error away from a perfect game?

Best I can tell it's the third time.

Reuss lost his on an error by Bill Russell.

Possibly the most painful, Bosman lost his on an error by himself.

61. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: July 11, 2009 at 04:55 AM (#3249995)

First time someone has been an error away from a perfect game?

Terry Mulholland did it in his 1990 no-hitter against the Giants. But he got a double play ball from the next hitter and still faced the minimum.

62. Shock Posted: July 11, 2009 at 04:59 AM (#3249996)

Ah, I missed Mulholland because I was looking for games with >27 batters faced.

Also possibly some more pre-1954.

63. Steve Sparks Flying Everywhere Posted: July 11, 2009 at 05:07 AM (#3249998)

At the beginning of the season I told all my friends to pick up Sanchez. Glad to see that I've been vindicated.

This game really shows how much luck is involved in a perfect game.

64. Mister High Standards Posted: July 11, 2009 at 05:37 AM (#3250008)

Jeff please keep telling us how bad Jonathan Sanchez is. That may have been an identifier game.

65. Mister High Standards Posted: July 11, 2009 at 05:47 AM (#3250014)

not an identifier game, but not bad company:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/play-index/shareit/jmS3

66. JoeC Posted: July 11, 2009 at 08:59 AM (#3250034)

...and The Baseball Project's "Harvey Haddix" avoids obsolescence for one more day...

67. Biff isn't really an apt handle anymore Posted: July 11, 2009 at 09:54 AM (#3250038)

I've never heard of the guy who made the last out. Everth Cabrera? Seriously? EVERTH?!?!

68. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: July 11, 2009 at 10:40 AM (#3250039)

Biff, not to mention he showed bunt on the first pitch. Down 8-0 with 2 outs in the 9th, the pitcher is throwing a no-hitter...and he shows bunt!

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Kovacevic: Giants eye Sanchez, LaRoche

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