As mind-crushing as a pile of cranky Naomi Punk riffs…Kriegel goes off.
You don’t have to live in Hollywood to know this makes for an especially unhappy ending — for Ramirez and the regime that pimped him out as a dreadlocked savior, but most of all, for the astoundingly loyal Dodger fans. It’s strange to think it’s been just two years since his arrival — as comically triumphant an entrance as you’ll see.
I’ll always recall Tommy Lasorda’s foul-mouthed tirade at a press corps that almost ran him over to get to Manny, whose Oakleys camouflaged the famously vacant look in his eyes. This could only happen in L.A. Quite suddenly, Ramirez was no longer a malcontent; he was like Peter Sellers in “Being There.” The village idiot had been declared a genius. He was adored for his Zen-like temperament. I recall Scott Boras arguing that Manny was really a kind of post-modern Yogi Berra.
... Two months later, Ramirez was exposed as a cheat, having tested positive for a female fertility drug commonly used to mask the effects of steroid use. The Dodgers were never the same, nor were they much fun. Last year, Ramirez got a 50-game suspension. This year, he’s been on the DL three times.
Recall Mark McGwire’s putrid confession. He said he cheated, not to hit home runs, but to stay on the field. One suspects the same calculation pertains to Ramirez. His numbers are down, sure, but mostly because he can’t stay clean and healthy at the same time.
Ramirez — who’s currently hitting his career average, .313 — would knock in 101 runs over a full season, according to STATS LLC. What’s more is the effect that his absences have had on the team. Forget the pitching and the financial constraints imposed by the owners’ divorce. A juiceless Ramirez is the single biggest reason — arguably the only one — the Dodgers won’t make the playoffs.
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1. Fly, the most judgment-free human being on Earth Posted: August 26, 2010 at 06:46 PM (#3626638)That's what you are
So forgettable
Like Barry Lamar
As opposed to what, the enduringly celebrated L.A. climaxes of Shawn Green, Eric Karros, or Cezar Izturis?
But the Dodgers won the division for the second year in a row that year, with a record that was 11 games better than the previous year. How does that stack up with "were never the same"?
I find it hilarious that Kriegel needed to revert to STATS LLC to figure out that Ramirez would be on pace for a 101-RBI season were it not for the injuries, rather than knowing to multiply Ramirez's RBI total by 162 and divide by the number of games he has played.
First thing I thought, too, Ray. Sad.
Either way, yeah, Kriegel doesn't exactly look like a deep thinker there.
He's missed half the season and the Dodgers have been a disappointment. That's not exactly a ceremonious way to wrap things up.
Yeah, it was awesome when he attacked that defenseless old clubhouse attendant.
As he shoved the guy down, his face lit up with such joy! It was magical, like a boy crushing the skull of his first baby songbird.
That kind of stuff happens all the time:
"The Golden Gate Bridge is 1.7 miles long, which according to goldengatebridge.org is 8981 feet"
"Cliff Lee has a 10-7 record this year, which according to Baseballreference.com is a .588 win%"
Drives me nuts why simple math needs a citation.
According to STATS, he's averaged pushing down only .055 clubhouse attendants per season.
So, are you saying that the Red Sox allow their employees to commit physical abuse with no repercussions or perhaps the story has been blown out of proportion?
STATS is partly owned by News Corp, and since this is a Fox Sports "story" they're really just hustling a sister business.
The traveling secretary was in his 60s, and looked like a stiff wind could blow him over. I'm sure he was a real hardass working over young punks back in the Eisenhower administration, but Father Time comes for everybody sooner or later.
Of course they do. Dr. Pappas cut out Marty Barrett's ACL without his knowledge or permission while he was knocked out on the table, right? That's at least assault.
While I'm giving the mongoose props, #23 was RDF.
present number of rbis/games played = projection/162
40/64 = x/162
40(162) = 64x
6480 = 64x
6480/64 = x
101 = x
actually, 101.25
or is that calculus?
nevermind.
I think they're busy working on my request for what batting average Manny would have over his next 94 at bats if he collects 32 hits during that span.
Trust me, Pappas did young Barrett a great favor. I don't take joy in watching young men fail again, and again, and again.
Also, your position on Manny and the ex-cop is lacking first-hand knowledge. As Tripon suggests, that story may well have been blown out of proportion (would not have been the first time in Boston sports).
Regardless. If you hate Manny, you hate individualism... and sick talent.
I've never been a fan of a team with Manny on it, but I find it hard to imagine the Manny Experience topping the Pedro Experience.
Not that I didn't appreciate Pedro, cause damn straight I did, but while he called the Yankees his 'daddy' Manny beitch-slapped them into oblivion (1.030 OPS).
Manny
Papi
Pedro
Nomar
Beckett
That's me, and that is all.
Manny
Papi
Pedro
Nomar
Beckett
Really, Really?
If you are going to knock down Pedro a notch because of his work against the Yankees (he was still pretty good against them), Beckett should be downgraded a lot as well. He has been awful against them as a Sox.
He's sucked in the playoffs since 2007, and been particularly putrid against the Yankees. SSS, but no more of a small sample size issue than his supposed "big game dominance" was. Lester is one of the very best pitchers in baseball. Don't get this.
I really don't care that he's been terrible the past year, that sh1t happens to the best, at times. When Beckett's right though, there are very few starters who can compare, and even fewer who will murder your entire family before giving up the ball in a crucial game.
We need to get past the 'what have you done lately' mentality, cause I gotta be honest, it's phfucking retarded.
As many as Kelvim Escobar?
Not nearly enough. Beckett (to me) has always been more about peak performance than reliability. That's not to say he hasn't outpitched his peers at times, because he has, splendidly, but just that he hasn't been very reliable year-after-year. I don't know why that is.
Why would anyone want to mask the effects of steroid use?
- well you know steroids make your liver rot and your testicles fall off and your hair fall out and female hormones are good for all that and putting hair on your chest
Wouldn't that kind of defeat the purpose of taking them in the first place?
- oh
nevermind
I realize that learning a little bit of basic endocrinology is way too much to ask of a sportswriter, but how about learning a little bit of basic English?
i dont see how come an sportswriter is spost to lern some inglish or some of those grammery thingys. sportswriters are payed the big bucks to talk about intangabulls and chemustry. its the editurses jobs to do all that stuff kind of like the clubhouse guy picks up the dirty jocks off the floor whereas they got thrown at
Because he's not nearly as good as you think he is.
He spent half of last season shutting the entire league down so I tend to believe the talent's still there. Maybe it's his back that's the problem. It's obviously the issue this year.
a) I think it's based on partisanship, rather than necessarily recent results.
b) I think it's true.
And his middle name is actually Tarkus.
If his real name is Manticore, there's no question I want him on my team. Today.
A lot of us Red Sox fans pledged that we'd always love Beckett, after his Game 6 masterpiece for the Marlins in '03...
I'd like to be VERY clear that I, as a Red Sox fan, never pledged this, nor do I know any other Red Sox fans that pledged this.
I agree with that in general but this is hardly "what have you done lately?" Beckett had a 4.53 ERA after the Break last year and has obviously been awful this year. I'm inclined to believe there is something physical at work here, even his most ardent haters acknowledge that he is a talented guy, but we've got a full season of Josh Beckett not pitching well now. I think until he proves he can do it again saying "there are very few starters who can compare" is optimistic at best.
Whatever love Beckett might have earned in 07 has been pissed away and then some. I detest that guy for a variety of reasons, including having one season of his five in Boston that produced results that match his talent.
No, it's based on his entire career which, viewed objectively lacks the heights, consistency, and health typically associated with pitchers who tend to be widely thought of the way you think of Beckett. Once you admit that his "great" years are comparable to average years for truly elite pitchers, then his current level of suckitude makes a lot more sense, whether one believes that he will bounce back or not. It's your fanboyishness that needs to be ignored on this subject.
I think that undersells 2008 and 2009 pretty considerably. His ERA+ those two years combined was 9th in the American League (I used 300 IP as a minimum). He has not been a Cy Young caliber Ace and if you feel that is his TTL then so I'll agree he hasn't matched his talent. In nine MLB seasons he has had just two seasons with an ERA+ over 125 (which seems to be about where you need to be to squeeze into CYA voting) so I would argue that his talent* is that 115-120 level he has pitched at for his career.
* by talent I include ability to stay healthy and the occasional bouts of being a ######## which obviously impact his ability to pitch well regularly
But that's not something that gets you on a list with Pedro and Manny and Nomar and Papi.
Watching him try to field is certainly nausea-inducing.
Are you sure that's not the only reason?
Oh it's most definitely not the only reason. I think he's an ass on and off the field too, but that doesn't have much to do with how good a pitcher he is, so I didn't mention it.
Vlad, we get it, you don't like Manny. Did he kill your dog or piss on you while you were sleeping or something?
According to Baseball-Reference.com
Naw, I just don't care for him, and I kind of resent the implication that there's something wrong with me because I don't. He seems like a moody, irresponsible, entitled athlete who didn't care enough about baseball to work on addressing the weaknesses in his game. And also kind of a jerk. And a cheater, to boot.
If other people want to cheer for him, that's fine. But this thread is all full of "Manny's the best thing ever!" and "You must be some kind of pinko commie if you don't like Manny!", and as such I figured the opposing viewpoint could use some representation.
It's not so much that there's something wrong with YOU, per se. It's just that your opinion is so wrong on the face of it that it's hard to grasp how someone who is so otherwise rational could formulate it.
I certainly wasn't trying to imply that, I was just curious as to where you were coming from.
Personally, I feel like with 99% of the athletes we adore, if you dig deep enough you will find something; an action, an interview, a play that pisses of somebody. So I try not to get too hot and bothered with the petty mistakes or wrongdoings that everyone makes.
That's why I only root for people who have made no impression on me whatsoever. Go, Gerald Laird!
Well, go ahead and make your case. Why is it wrong?
Manny plays baseball with a love approached by few others in the game. The joy of a young child, doing what he truly LOVES to do.
Manny is one of the best hitters in the history of the game, and is a competent, extremely entertaining outfielder.
Manny is always a fan of his fans.
Manny just is. Manny doesn't need to pretend to be something he's not. He's just pure, unadulterated baseball. He's summer, with goofy hair. He's youth, he's excitement, and he's awesome.
He IS joy.
Yeah, he's excited to have hit a game-winning home run in the playoffs. How does that set him apart from, say, Aaron Boone?
Some parts of it, sure. But he's also like a young child in that when asked to work on the deficient areas of his game (like fielding), he reacts like somebody just tried to poison him with Brussels sprouts.
And he seemed anything but happy-go-lucky when he attacked the clubhouse attendant. Or when he fought with Youk in the clubhouse. Or when he got caught pretending he was sick so he could go out drinking with Enrique. Or when he held the news conference talking about why he tested positive for PEDs. Manny the idiot savant sells a lot of newspapers, but I don't know that there's really much meat in that sandwich, y'know?
He lived in the hotel where the fan claimed were going out to drink.
Plus, his fielding is fine.
Regarding the home run against the Angels: WEEI had a body language "expert" on the day after the homer and she claimed that his posture at the plate, with his palms outward, indicated "welcoming of others" that basically it was meant as a group hug. If his hands had been directed inward it would have been more of a "look at me" gesture.
That's her story, not sure how true it is but she was the "expert."
I love Manny but I don't think it is hard to understand why people don't like him. While I see a lot of what Fly says in #74 there are times when the opposite applies. He seemed to visibly sulk from time to time and I think he was aware of his fans but I think he went back and forth on them.
And whether that body language expert was right or not, that's certainly what I took from that moment. Just looking at that picture, it looks so celebratory and united...it's what a celebration SHOULD be.
I think you may not be entirely objective on this point. He's looked somewhere between lousy and Lonnie Smith on the occasions when I've seen him.
I don't want to piss on your parade, and you can like him for whatever reasons you want... but Christ, what a load of horseshit.
I want whatever you and Manny are smoking.
NO, Thread Killer, not this time!
Instead, I shall kill it by thanking Jose for that awesome tidbit which I was unaware of. Thank you, sir. I am truly grateful.
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