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Thursday, May 29, 2014

Kurkjian: The Unwritten Canon, Revealed

Angels pitcher C.J. Wilson says, “There are so many unwritten rules because it’s such an old game. It’s such a technical game. There are so many opportunities for gamesmanship. It creates such drama. It’s such a game of respect. It’s a game that punishes those who are selfish.”

Diamondbacks pitcher Brandon McCarthy asks, “But aren’t there unwritten rules in every industry? In journalism, you can’t steal sources, right? In hockey, guys don’t take their skates off and slash an opponent’s throat with the blade. In football, you never see a guy take off his helmet and just bludgeon an opponent. We’ve been playing baseball since the 1800s. We just have more unwritten rules.”

And every one of them is debatable and fluid and arbitrary…

Several years ago, Joe Horn, a wide receiver for the New Orleans Saints, scored a touchdown, pulled out a cell phone that he had taped inside the goal post, and made a call, or at least pretended to.

“And no one in football cared!” Baker says. “If that had happened in baseball ... if someone had hit a home run, reached home plate, took a cell phone out of his stirrup and called someone, he wouldn’t finish the phone call. There would be balls flying into both dugouts. It would be like a Cuban winter-ball game, with guys running around with bats in their hands. Oh my God, the world would stop spinning on its axis. The ice caps would melt.”

RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: May 29, 2014 at 08:31 PM | 47 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: tim kurkjian, unwritten rules

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   1. Dale Sams Posted: May 30, 2014 at 12:24 AM (#4715922)
Several years ago, Joe Horn, a wide receiver for the New Orleans Saints, scored a touchdown, pulled out a cell phone that he had taped inside the goal post, and made a call, or at least pretended to.


Apparently the league cared enough to put an end to excessive celebrations.

In soccer, I want to see Wayne Rooney pull a ball out of the net, sign the ball and hand it to the goalkeeper. Or for someone to score, run to a corner flag, rip the flag out of the ground and tommygun the opponent fan section. See how that goes over.
   2. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: May 30, 2014 at 12:31 AM (#4715923)
Or for someone to score, run to a corner flag, rip the flag out of the ground and tommygun the opponent fan section. See how that goes over.


Dale, I could not think of a more awesome celebration of a goal in an England v Germany world cup match.

WWIII would surely commence...
   3. Bhaakon Posted: May 30, 2014 at 12:31 AM (#4715924)
Apparently the league cared enough to put an end to excessive celebrations.


The football players didn't care, and the unwritten rules of baseball are all about players self-policing things that the guys in suits have no interest in regulating. If the suits ban something, then, by definition, it's no longer an unwritten rule.
   4. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: May 30, 2014 at 01:47 AM (#4715935)
Iv seen football players use helmets as a weapon before. They just get suspended for it. The whole unwritten rules thing is about people making up reasons to be a dick.
   5. JE (Jason) Posted: May 30, 2014 at 02:36 AM (#4715938)
Several years ago, Joe Horn, a wide receiver for the New Orleans Saints, scored a touchdown, pulled out a cell phone that he had taped inside the goal post, and made a call, or at least pretended to.

“And no one in football cared!” Baker says. “If that had happened in baseball ... if someone had hit a home run, reached home plate, took a cell phone out of his stirrup and called someone, he wouldn’t finish the phone call. There would be balls flying into both dugouts. It would be like a Cuban winter-ball game, with guys running around with bats in their hands. Oh my God, the world would stop spinning on its axis. The ice caps would melt.”

Unless you party on the Cowboys' 50-yard line, apparently.
Diamondbacks pitcher Brandon McCarthy asks, “But aren’t there unwritten rules in every industry? In journalism, you can’t steal sources, right? In hockey, guys don’t take their skates off and slash an opponent’s throat with the blade. In football, you never see a guy take off his helmet and just bludgeon an opponent. We’ve been playing baseball since the 1800s. We just have more unwritten rules.”

Even one of the smartest guys in the game is capable of making the occasional moronic comment.
   6. Swedish Chef Posted: May 30, 2014 at 04:02 AM (#4715941)
In soccer, I want to see Wayne Rooney pull a ball out of the net, sign the ball and hand it to the goalkeeper. Or for someone to score, run to a corner flag, rip the flag out of the ground and tommygun the opponent fan section. See how that goes over.

Gazza's flute playing for the Celtic fans comes to mind.

But it's not like soccer is a gentlemanly game frowning on excessive display.
   7. Jeltzandini Posted: May 30, 2014 at 07:32 AM (#4715948)
In hockey, guys don’t take their skates off and slash an opponent’s throat with the blade.


Pretty sure that one's written, in law books. (Also, it takes an impractically long time to take off a skate.)

   8. SoCalDemon Posted: May 30, 2014 at 09:23 AM (#4715986)
Diamondbacks pitcher Brandon McCarthy asks, “But aren’t there unwritten rules in every industry? In journalism, you can’t steal sources, right? In hockey, guys don’t take their skates off and slash an opponent’s throat with the blade. In football, you never see a guy take off his helmet and just bludgeon an opponent. We’ve been playing baseball since the 1800s. We just have more unwritten rules.”

Even one of the smartest guys in the game is capable of making the occasional moronic comment.


Its hard to tell, because his other quote is a pretty straight ahead answer, but McCarthy is not only smart but quite funny usually (even right after waking from a coma), and this reads as a spoof answer to me. I mean, the two examples he gives from other sports boil down to "not killing a guy".
   9. SoCalDemon Posted: May 30, 2014 at 09:26 AM (#4715989)
"If Manny Ramirez hits a home run and does his thing at the plate on the bases, well, he's Manny Ramirez. He can do that," McCarthy says. "But when Ronnie Belliard, who swings just like Manny and does the same thing as Manny after he hits a home run, it's not the same because he's not Manny. I was angry for a week over that one.


On second thought, perhaps I am giving him too much credit. And perhaps the problem is not Belliard's bat flip (or whatever Belliard does after a HR), its that you gave up a home run to Ronnie Belliard.
   10. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: May 30, 2014 at 10:02 AM (#4716026)
McCarthy's examples are foolish, but he is correct in one sense. There are unwritten rules in all areas of life, and not just on the job. What makes baseball, in particular, different than all of these other endeavors is there's a serious effort by some of the participants to police the unwritten rules.
   11. valuearbitrageur Posted: May 30, 2014 at 10:41 AM (#4716052)
Apparently the league cared enough to put an end to excessive celebrations.


Which made the games less entertaining and enjoyable.

They made their product worse to solve a problem so minute only someone with a stick stuck up their ass cared about it.
   12. villageidiom Posted: May 30, 2014 at 12:11 PM (#4716105)
On second thought, perhaps I am giving him too much credit. And perhaps the problem is not Belliard's bat flip (or whatever Belliard does after a HR), its that you gave up a home run to Ronnie Belliard.
It really boils down to just this: the unwritten rules are invoked any time someone's feelings are hurt, and the "victim" is looking for reasons why their hurt feelings are not their own fault. That's it.

You give up a HR to Manny, you're not embarrassed. Everyone gave up HR to Manny for a time. It means you're a pitcher. Give up a HR to Belliard, and it might mean you're not that good a pitcher. If that hurts your feelings, having Belliard reinforce the feeling must somehow be "wrong".

I know McCarthy is hyperbolizing, but on some level I think he's thinking that receiving a life-threatening physical beating in other sports is in line with how he feels when someone shows him up. The number of people I know who say they were "yelled at" by someone who is criticizing them in normal voice but a direct manner is too high for me to think the way someone feels in an environment will discolor their perception of how others are behaving in that environment. I see no reason to think this isn't behind the unwritten rules.
   13. villageidiom Posted: May 30, 2014 at 01:51 PM (#4716159)
Wow, that was almost coherent. Let me try that last paragraph again.

The number of people I know who say they were "yelled at" by someone who is criticizing them in normal voice but a direct manner is very high. From this it's clear that some people will interpret what others do in terms of how it made them feel rather than what actually happened. It's for this reason that I think people invoke unwritten rules. "He flipped his bat" really means "he wanted me to feel bad, or sad, or powerless, or whatever" which in turn means "I felt bad, and I wanted it to be over, and watching him reminded me it wasn't, and that made me feel worse".
   14. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: May 30, 2014 at 02:26 PM (#4716178)
“I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel.”
   15. Eddo Posted: May 30, 2014 at 02:41 PM (#4716185)
Its hard to tell, because his other quote is a pretty straight ahead answer, but McCarthy is not only smart but quite funny usually (even right after waking from a coma), and this reads as a spoof answer to me. I mean, the two examples he gives from other sports boil down to "not killing a guy".

Also, his two examples are against the written rules of their sport.
   16. dr. scott Posted: May 30, 2014 at 02:43 PM (#4716186)
13 and 14 are very wise.
   17. Christopher Linden Posted: May 30, 2014 at 03:01 PM (#4716192)
Kudos, too, to #14. Brilliant quote.

I was hoping this thread would get more play here. There's a lot of caterwauling that goes on anytime unwritten rules, Braves/McCann/Gomez make the news, and I thought this was a terrific piece. Some interesting points of view ("If I get thrown at it was your fault, not the pitcher's," "That was for that time four years ago," etc) that don't get aired in public too often. We usually dismiss ex-jock TV chatter that a pitcher "has to" plunk a hitter to defend a teammate lest he lose respect in the clubhouse, but apparently that's still a view shared by many of today's major-leaguers. The endless contradictions themselves make for interesting reading. And Phil Coke comes off as a wrestling character. I'm curious why other posters might think "respect" is held in such high esteem; one would think winning would be enough.

Anyhow, great piece. Worth a full read.

Happy Base Ball
   18. TDF, situational idiot Posted: May 30, 2014 at 04:08 PM (#4716220)
The unwritten rules were built to penalize a player who stole a base when his team was ahead by 10 runs, or swung as hard as he could at a 3-0 pitch when up by 12, or dropped a bunt in the ninth inning to break up a no-hitter.
The most important take-away is this: All unwritten rules apply only to the offense; the pitcher can do whatever he wants with impunity.

Until someone gives me a valid reason why this is so, I'm going to keep harping on it.
   19. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: May 30, 2014 at 04:14 PM (#4716221)
The most important take-away is this: All unwritten rules apply only to the offense; the pitcher can do whatever he wants with impunity.

Until someone gives me a valid reason why this is so, I'm going to keep harping on it.


A) That's not true.

and

B) How they differ was explained to you last time.

You weren't interested.
   20. cardsfanboy Posted: May 30, 2014 at 04:16 PM (#4716222)
I know McCarthy is hyperbolizing, but on some level I think he's thinking that receiving a life-threatening physical beating in other sports is in line with how he feels when someone shows him up.


From the comments and tone of the article, I think he doesn't care if someone shows him up, he seems to be arguing against the unwritten rules for getting your panties in a bunch. He complains about how people took the Belliard homerun more seriously than the Manny homerun.
   21. cardsfanboy Posted: May 30, 2014 at 04:28 PM (#4716230)
Actually read the article (it's really long) and it's quite good and pretty candid comments from active players, which is surprising. It also includes players on both sides of the argument for the most part, and Gomes and McCarthy straight up admit that sometimes you aren't going to follow the unwritten rules because it affects your numbers.

Gomes says. "There are no gimmes in this game. As a hitter, you want to take strikes away from me? You want to take RBIs away from me? We're way ahead, so I am getting punished for that?"


Meanwhile Dunn is a big proponent for the unwritten rules.

Dunn, a 13-year veteran, has had enough with the ambiguity of the unwritten rules, which he says are dead and gone. He says it is time for change.

And he has a solution.

"To me," Dunn says, "it should be mandatory: You can drill one guy per game, and you can have one charge of the mound per game. Fair is fair."


   22. TDF, situational idiot Posted: May 30, 2014 at 04:29 PM (#4716231)
A) That's not true.
Name one unwritten rule that applies to pitchers; IOW, under what circumstances would a hitter be justified in retaliating in the same manner as a pitcher throwing at a hitter? I'm still, after 3 threads, waiting for an example.
B) How they differ was explained to you last time.
I wasn't interested because you never addressed the subject directly.

   23. Nasty Nate Posted: May 30, 2014 at 04:37 PM (#4716235)
Name one unwritten rule that applies to pitchers


There are unwritten rules for pitchers about when/how they celebrate after a big out, and when/how they throw at hitters. Like most unwritten rules, they are murky and inconsistently applied.
   24. cardsfanboy Posted: May 30, 2014 at 04:45 PM (#4716238)
There are unwritten rules for pitchers about when/how they celebrate after a big out, and when/how they throw at hitters. Like most unwritten rules, they are murky and inconsistently applied.


And in the article they talk about pace of game issues, although again it's murky.

Wilson says, "It's ridiculous how long it takes guys to get in the box, or pitchers to throw the ball. Guys on their own team yell at them, in very colorful language. 'Get in the box! Throw the ball!' Some guys are serial line-steppers; they are habitual line-steppers. That's how they get the reputation as a rain delay. What I love is the pitcher who has two pitches, and he shakes off the catcher five times. We yell, 'Pick one!'


but as a fan of the Cardinals from the 80's. Andujar got jawed at a lot because of his antics, pitchers can't pull out a "finger gun" and shoot the guy when he strikes someone out.
   25. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: May 30, 2014 at 04:54 PM (#4716244)
Name one unwritten rule that applies to pitchers; IOW, under what circumstances would a hitter be justified in retaliating in the same manner as a pitcher throwing at a hitter? I'm still, after 3 threads, waiting for an example.


The problem is you don't seem to understand that your first statement is not the same thing as your second statement.

What unwritten rules apply to pitchers? Showing up batters will get some guys goats (and other guys don't care - same as with some hitters' conduct). Yelling (or yelling in general) can get a batter riled up. Certainly inside pitches, even those delivered with no ill intent behind them, have been known to draw the ire of overly sensitive hitters. I'm sure there are plenty of others, baseball players being a very easy group to agitate.

Which takes us to your second statement:

The way the game of baseball is played, batters do not have a mechanism for enacting revenge. Pitchers have one.

Now, despite your insistence, pitchers are not allowed to throw at hitters. Pitchers that are deemed to be throwing at hitters are tossed from the game.

However, pitchers sometimes choose to violate this rule (as is the case with all rules - the existence of rulebreakers does not render the rule non-existent). And sometimes they get away with it because intentional fastballs to the ribs are very hard to distinguish from unintentional fastballs to the ribs.*

If there was a similar way for batters to enact revenge in the course of normal game play, then you'd see hotheaded batters doing just that. There is none.

* Of course, sometimes they get charged by an angry batter.
   26. TDF, situational idiot Posted: May 30, 2014 at 05:28 PM (#4716263)
The problem is you don't seem to understand that your first statement is not the same thing as your second statement.
No, the problem is that you don't seem to understand that the 2nd statement defines the 1st - if there is no penalty, then it isn't a rule (written or unwritten), it's merely a suggestion. There are no "unwritten rules" for pitchers because there is no penalty for breaking them.
Now, despite your insistence, pitchers are not allowed to throw at hitters. Pitchers that are deemed to be throwing at hitters are tossed from the game.
That's not the point. The point is that pitchers are deemed by their teams and teammates to be justified in throwing at hitters in certain situations, and will in fact be publicly backed by said team and teammates. Baseball (MLB) may frown in thier actions, but "baseball" (those in the game, and even the fans) will nod in approval. Meanwhile, there are no similar avenues for retaliation granted to hitters - even in the most egrarious beanings, the hitter will always be suspended if he charges the mound (while a pitcher will only be suspended in certain instances for throwing at a hitter). And when it comes to "showing up" a hitter? There are no rules.
   27. Nasty Nate Posted: May 30, 2014 at 05:35 PM (#4716266)
There are no "unwritten rules" for pitchers


What about the ones mentioned in this thread?
   28. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: May 30, 2014 at 05:44 PM (#4716268)
No, the problem is that you don't seem to understand that the 2nd statement defines the 1st - if there is no penalty, then it isn't a rule (written or unwritten), it's merely a suggestion. There are no "unwritten rules" for pitchers because there is no penalty for breaking them.


There is no penalty for staring too long at a home run, or stealing up 8 in the ninth either.

That's not the point. The point is that pitchers are deemed by their teams and teammates to be justified in throwing at hitters in certain situations, and will in fact be publicly backed by said team and teammates.


In fact, sometimes they'll do it at the behest of a hitter - because that's the place where on-field retribution is feasible. The game's structure dictates this stuff, not some double standard.

Your argument is with how the game of baseball is played.

   29. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: May 30, 2014 at 05:46 PM (#4716269)
The way the game of baseball is played, batters do not have a mechanism for enacting revenge. Pitchers have one.

They sure used to have such a mechanism, back when hitters knew how to bunt. One famous tactic was a well placed bunt down the first base line, followed by steamrolling over the pitcher with a shoulder block when he covered first base. Jackie Robinson was one of the true artists of that particular move.
   30. Moeball Posted: May 30, 2014 at 06:50 PM (#4716286)
They sure used to have such a mechanism, back when hitters knew how to bunt. One famous tactic was a well placed bunt down the first base line, followed by steamrolling over the pitcher with a shoulder block when he covered first base. Jackie Robinson was one of the true artists of that particular move.


BITD I remember the game when Curt Schilling was mowing down the Padres and then someone bunted for a hit to break up the no-hitter and Schilling went absolutely ballistic about how bunting was against the "unwritten" rules in such a situation. It was even mentioned about how "when Larsen pitched his perfect game in the Series against the Dodgers, they all swung away and no one bunted against him".

Maybe they should have?
   31. dr. scott Posted: May 30, 2014 at 06:52 PM (#4716287)
throughout the article the players say that the main penalty for breaking an unwritten rule is lack of respect from the other players (they say not all offenses are worthy of a beaning). this goes for batters and pitchers. If players on other teams don't respect you its a problem as you will eventually go to another team, and if players on your own team don't respect you then it can make life rather miserable.
   32. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: May 30, 2014 at 07:07 PM (#4716290)
Schilling went absolutely ballistic about how bunting was against the "unwritten" rules in such a situation.


That was Brenly who went nuts. Schilling said he was "a little stunned," but wasn't going off half-cocked like his manager.
   33. dr. scott Posted: May 30, 2014 at 07:20 PM (#4716297)
Things happen in a game, behind the scenes, that people don't even know is going on. We keep them in-house.


this statement also suggests that enforcement of the unwritten rules does not always happen on the field.

So even though a pitcher may not get punished on the field for breaking unwritten rules there are off the field ways that its done.
   34. Random Transaction Generator Posted: May 30, 2014 at 07:35 PM (#4716305)
In soccer, I want to see Wayne Rooney pull a ball out of the net, sign the ball and hand it to the goalkeeper. Or for someone to score, run to a corner flag, rip the flag out of the ground and tommygun the opponent fan section. See how that goes over.


Oh, you mean like this?
   35. Bug Selig Posted: May 30, 2014 at 07:45 PM (#4716308)
No, the problem is that you don't seem to understand that the 2nd statement defines the 1st


I think people might be having trouble understanding it because it isn't true. It is factually incorrect to say that there is no penalty for pitchers breaking the "rules". Willie Wilson charged more mounds than Ron Jeremy. Juan Marichal beat John Roseboro over the head with a bat - certainly not because of anything John Roseboro did. Rod Allen might still be chasing that Japanese pitcher around the outfield with a bat. Stanley Jefferson didn't provoke Roger Clemens into breaking his arm - Doug Jones did. And then the whole state of Ohio came flying out of the dugout after Clemens. You didn't live through the 80's if you never tried to punch Pascual Perez in the face. Pedro got charged by an septuagenarian gerbil. Pitcher actions don't have, and have never had, the kind of immunity you are claiming.
   36. An Athletic in Powderhorn™ Posted: May 31, 2014 at 04:26 AM (#4716484)
Juan Marichal beat John Roseboro over the head with a bat - certainly not because of anything John Roseboro did.
That's a bad example. Roseboro threw his return throw to the pitcher very close to Marichal's face. This is well-documented.
   37. PreservedFish Posted: May 31, 2014 at 10:17 AM (#4716506)
There was something like a 9 month build up of hype concerning how the Mets would retaliate against Roger Clemens after he tossed the broken bat at or towards Mike Piazza in the World Series. Shawn Estes was the starter - I believe he threw the ball at Clemens, and missed behind him. It looked really impotent, but he later hit a homerun off of him.

That's an extreme example. But I think what normally happens is that, when the perpetrator isn't going to get a turn at bat, pitchers might go after his teammates. Maybe that happens less often that it used to?

There are no "unwritten rules" for pitchers because there is no penalty for breaking them.


I don't really understand this. Remember when Dallas Braden went nuts about ARod running over the pitcher's mound? Yelled at him during the game and then continued ######## about it basically for his whole career? I think it's pretty clear to me that Braden thought ARod broke an unwritten rule ... your quirky definition would seem to reject this unless Braden actually dealt ARod some physical punishment (I don't recall if he did or not).
   38. esseff Posted: May 31, 2014 at 01:10 PM (#4716545)
Baseball's Unwritten Cannon: Jimmy Wynn's less talented brother.
   39. Bug Selig Posted: May 31, 2014 at 03:24 PM (#4716576)
That's a bad example. Roseboro threw his return throw to the pitcher very close to Marichal's face. This is well-documented.


That's true, and thanks for the straightening-out. After clicking through to what seemed like it would be the briefest of the links, the Roseboro throws were in retaliation for Marichal gunning for Wills. Even through my bumbling, strengthening the point that pitchers can be and are held accountable for this stuff.
   40. cardsfanboy Posted: May 31, 2014 at 03:31 PM (#4716581)
Remember when Dallas Braden went nuts about ARod running over the pitcher's mound? Yelled at him during the game and then continued ######## about it basically for his whole career? I think it's pretty clear to me that Braden thought ARod broke an unwritten rule ... your quirky definition would seem to reject this unless Braden actually dealt ARod some physical punishment (I don't recall if he did or not).


that is mentioned frequently in the article in which most people say "I've never heard of that unwritten rule." and that Dallas is a freaking idiot.
   41. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: May 31, 2014 at 04:32 PM (#4716604)
that is mentioned frequently in the article in which most people say "I've never heard of that unwritten rule." and that Dallas is a freaking idiot.


I spoke to a former minor league pitcher immediately after that happened, and he said he would have barked at someone if he'd run across the mound like that. OTOH, I imagine many other pitchers would think nothing of it.

The big issue is that there really aren't many times an offensive player has a reason to cross across the mound, so it doesn't come up much (and, thus, some offensive players wouldn't be aware that pitchers would respond like that).

But yeah, Braden is also an idiot.

   42. cardsfanboy Posted: May 31, 2014 at 05:01 PM (#4716624)
I spoke to a former minor league pitcher immediately after that happened, and he said he would have barked at someone if he'd run across the mound like that. OTOH, I imagine many other pitchers would think nothing of it.


To me, I think it sounds like a perfectly reasonable unwritten rule, the pitchers do a lot of "grooming" of the mound and it could even be a safety hazard if a guy runs across his landing point and messes up the divot etc... but the article does talk about it and basically nobody had ever heard of it being a rule before. (I think Dunn said he wouldn't do that because he's afraid he might hurt himself)
   43. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: May 31, 2014 at 05:12 PM (#4716626)
but the article does talk about it and basically nobody had ever heard of it being a rule before.


In the immediate aftermath, it seemed to be fairly split, with some guys noting they'd never do it, and others saying they'd never heard anything like that. The infrequency of opportunity, combined with the fact that some pitchers really wouldn't give a crap, is why it's not as understood as some other things. But I'm positive Braden would not have been alone in barking at a guy for running directly across the mound the way Arod did.

And honestly, people seemed to get worked up about Braden, but all he did was bark at Arod and throw his glove against the wall when he got back to the dugout. The former happens pretty regularly on the diamond and while the latter made him look a little foolish, it was not something that should have gotten anybody else hot and bothered. He didn't plunk anybody in response (which, frankly, doesn't happen very often in response to these types of violations).

   44. cardsfanboy Posted: May 31, 2014 at 05:14 PM (#4716627)
wrong thread
   45. PreservedFish Posted: May 31, 2014 at 06:57 PM (#4716664)
I brought up Braden only as a response to TDF. I have no idea if that's a real unwritten rule or not. The point is that Braden thought it was an unwritten rule.
   46. Nasty Nate Posted: May 31, 2014 at 07:59 PM (#4716679)
The Braden thing is about unwritten rules for hitters, not pitchers, right? No one is pretending those don't exist.
   47. Poster Nutbag Posted: May 31, 2014 at 11:05 PM (#4716724)
FWIW, when that guy for Detroit (I think it was Al Alburquerque) kissed the ball in the ALCS against Oakland, there was no "retaliation" other then complaints, IIRC.

Chapman did a freakin somersault or whatever when he first came up too. Rodney has a celebratory gesture he uses/used as a closer. Pitchers fist-pump all the time and yell. None of this seems to get retaliated against as much as hitters doing bat-flips, taking to long to round the bases, etc.


Just an observation.

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