Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Tuesday, February 12, 2019

Kyler Murray chooses to pursue NFL, ‘fully committing’ to becoming QB

The former Oklahoma quarterback and Heisman Trophy winner announced Monday he was “firmly and fully committing my life and time to becoming an NFL quarterback.”

Murray was also the No. 9 pick by the Oakland Athletics in the 2018 MLB draft and was due to report to spring training on Friday. But now his focus will turn to the NFL scouting combine in Indianapolis, which begins Feb. 26.

“Football has been my love and passion my entire life,” Murray wrote in a picture posted to Twitter. “I was raised to play QB, and I very much look forward to dedicating 100% of myself to being the best QB possible and winning NFL championships. I have started an extensive training program to further prepare myself for upcoming NFL workouts and interviews. I eagerly await the opportunity to continue to prove to NFL decision makers that I am the franchise QB in this draft.”

RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 12, 2019 at 06:01 AM | 121 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: kyler murray

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 1 of 2 pages  1 2 > 
   1. Jeff Francoeur's OPS Posted: February 12, 2019 at 10:28 PM (#5814761)
He won't be above average in either sport.
   2. Infinite Yost (Voxter) Posted: February 13, 2019 at 12:04 AM (#5814773)
Idiot.
   3. baudib Posted: February 13, 2019 at 12:06 AM (#5814774)
I think he has close to 0% chance of being a good QB in the NFL.
   4. The Duke Posted: February 13, 2019 at 07:47 AM (#5814787)
Why is he an idiot exactly? He will be able to negotiate a much better guaranteed deal with an NFL team and if he fails, which will become apparent in two years, he can go back and play baseball.

If you are talking about football being dangerous, there is that.

Seems like he is following his heart. Maybe he just doesn’t enjoy baseball that much. I would think being a QB is awesome.
   5. Zonk Sits on the Stool next to Slats Steely Posted: February 13, 2019 at 09:31 AM (#5814793)
What a royal #### up of a pick by the A's.... Murray was a stretch at 9 even if there wasn't a big risk this would be the ultimate result.
   6. Eddo Posted: February 13, 2019 at 09:45 AM (#5814798)
If you are talking about football being dangerous, there is that.

Even then, quarterbacks who are "only" good enough to be a league average starter can play well into a second decade, and generally, QBs are not the players who show much post-career issues.

------

He won't be above average in either sport.


If you look at this move in terms of earning power, if Murray goes in the first round in the NFL, he's gonna make at least $12M guaranteed (that's what Jake Locker's career earnings are, and he's the rare first round QB that didn't make it to a second contract). If he's good, but even injured, he'll make at least $30M (Robert Griffin III has made $29M in his career so far). Even if he's just a mediocre starter, he should make close to $70M (Ryan Tannehill's at $67M through today).
   7. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: February 13, 2019 at 10:15 AM (#5814822)

Even then, quarterbacks who are "only" good enough to be a league average starter can play well into a second decade, and generally, QBs are not the players who show much post-career issues.

I agree that this is the right financial decision, but as for the second part of your statement I wonder about scrambling QBs who weigh less than 200 lbs.
   8. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: February 13, 2019 at 10:25 AM (#5814832)
Are we that far gone as a society that we just don't find even this level of craven disingenuousness to be off-putting?
   9. puck Posted: February 13, 2019 at 10:32 AM (#5814842)
Isn't that called living in a society?
   10. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: February 13, 2019 at 10:35 AM (#5814847)
I remember back in the day, we at least mocked Mike Hampton for the "good public schools" thing.
   11. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: February 13, 2019 at 10:53 AM (#5814857)

Are we that far gone as a society that we just don't find even this level of craven disingenuousness to be off-putting?

What's craven or disingenuous?
   12. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: February 13, 2019 at 11:07 AM (#5814866)
What's craven or disingenuous?
Murray saying anything other than "I broke my contract because my agent and I think football is going to give me more money in the immediate future, so I'd rather just not talk about 'commitment.'"
   13. Eddo Posted: February 13, 2019 at 11:19 AM (#5814871)
I agree that this is the right financial decision, but as for the second part of your statement I wonder about scrambling QBs who weigh less than 200 lbs.

That's a fair point.

I was thinking more along the lines of the head injuries, which befall lineman and linebackers much more, it seems. The kind that never go away and cause you tons of problems when you're in your 50s. A torn ACL and other contact injures are bad, of course, but with the right treatment, you can live a perfectly fine life when you are retired.

But yeah, Murray's probably more at risk of a catastrophic-type injury that wrecks his career / effectiveness than an average QB.
   14. Eddo Posted: February 13, 2019 at 11:20 AM (#5814874)
Murray saying anything other than "I broke my contract because my agent and I think football is going to give me more money in the immediate future, so I'd rather just not talk about 'commitment.'"


His quote here is almost certainly to make himself more attractive to teams drafting. It's not really much different than if you were to take a higher-paying job solely because it pays more, then say to your new boss, "I'm really excited to contribute to your team."
   15. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: February 13, 2019 at 11:28 AM (#5814880)
No, it’s more like saying that new job fulfills your lifelong dream and destiny. Spare us that crap.
   16. Eddo Posted: February 13, 2019 at 11:31 AM (#5814883)
No, it’s more like saying that new job fulfills your lifelong dream and destiny. Spare us that crap.


Well, he's still in the interview process. Any perception by the NFL that he's "not committed" or whatever and his draft stock slips. It's a notoriously petty and shitty process, I don't blame him for following the script.

EDIT: Also, I'm not going to doubt that his passion is football. He just won the freaking Heisman! But until he did that, he was always viewed as "too small" for the NFL, so he probably focused on baseball as having better career potential. I'd be willing to bet that football actually is his passion, and baseball was his calculated backup path.
   17. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: February 13, 2019 at 12:05 PM (#5814902)
Everything I have hear, seems to suggest that he really just does love football more than baseball. That is from people with behind the scenes knowledge, and not just his public comments. The A's knew this was a substantial possibility when they drafted him.

I think shitting on a 20 year old kid, for not having a complete and absolute handle on what he wants for the rest of his life, is a far bigger indictment of character, than anything I have seen from Murray.
   18. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: February 13, 2019 at 12:08 PM (#5814903)
Even if that is true, he's lost all credibility to claim to be anything other than a mercenary by trying to use his football leverage to extort more money from the A's and then breaking his contract.
   19. base ball chick Posted: February 13, 2019 at 12:16 PM (#5814911)
What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: February 13, 2019 at 11:28 AM (#5814880)

No, it’s more like saying that new job fulfills your lifelong dream and destiny. Spare us that crap


- cmon dude

you know better than that. you don't poopoo all over your last employer when looking for a new job no matter what

and he was very smart to have a backup plan. and lucky because so few baseball draftees do.

it's not like he took the A's by surprise - it's not like they had NOOOOOOOO idea he could play football. the A's gambled that murray wouldn't be good enough to be a football draft pick who would get more then 5 mill, and they lost.

i understand exactly where murray is coming from - he's gonna get at least twice the guaranteed money, even if he never plays a game. and if he turns into whatshisname QB first pick who seriously sucked, well then, he CAN go back to baseball, ride crappy buses going from sucky small town to sucky small town and hope for a 500,000 payday

or if he isn't stupid beyond belief, live offn whatever is left from the 12 mill after the agent and IRS get their cut and sit and watch tv
   20. Tom Nawrocki Posted: February 13, 2019 at 12:32 PM (#5814921)
I think shitting on a 20 year old kid, for not having a complete and absolute handle on what he wants for the rest of his life, is a far bigger indictment of character, than anything I have seen from Murray.


Not to mention the fact that he just had a football season that wildly exceeded anything he had done before, which would seem to give him the right to change his mind. At the time the A's drafted him, Murray had never even been a starter in college, much less a top NFL draft prospect.
   21. JJ1986 Posted: February 13, 2019 at 12:43 PM (#5814929)
whatshisname QB first pick who seriously sucked
JaMarcus Russell.
   22. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: February 13, 2019 at 12:44 PM (#5814930)
I'm not saying Murray made a dumb decision, or that he shouldn't be allowed to do so. I'm just saying, let's call it what it is. He screwed over the A's (whether they reasonably anticipated it or not) for more money.
   23. base ball chick Posted: February 13, 2019 at 12:49 PM (#5814934)
sigh

he did not screw over the A's - they knew from the getgo that he was a 2 sport athlete and they knew very well that a chance existed that he would return the draft money and go to football. he didn't sign anything that said he would not go to the NFL draft if he had a chance as some other guys have done
   24. Tom Nawrocki Posted: February 13, 2019 at 12:49 PM (#5814935)
Do you really think money was his only motivation to switch to football?
   25. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: February 13, 2019 at 12:52 PM (#5814937)
Given the fact that he tried to get more money from the A's to stay with baseball, and only then switched to football, yes. Am I mistaken about that?
   26. base ball chick Posted: February 13, 2019 at 12:56 PM (#5814939)
Tom Nawrocki Posted: February 13, 2019 at 12:49 PM (#5814935)

Do you really think money was his only motivation to switch to football


- that and the fact that he would be playing in front of tens of thousands in big cities instead of tens of dozens in some pokey little town. better looking gold diggers

- maybe he does actually like football better - who knws the truth because he's hardly in a position to be honest

we all know about some stars in other sports who love baseball but weren't good enough baseball players and picked the sport they are better at, which is a sensible decision

maybe this guy thinks he is just a better football player than baseball player and is gambling he won't get tackled or concussed

anyway, the A's couldn't give him football signing money seeing as how they have strict caps on draftees now. man, the union sure screwed themselves on THAT one

   27. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: February 13, 2019 at 12:57 PM (#5814940)
he did not screw over the A's - they knew from the getgo that he was a 2 sport athlete and they knew very well that a chance existed that he would return the draft money and go to football. he didn't sign anything that said he would not go to the NFL draft if he had a chance as some other guys have done
He repeatedly and publicly pronounced his "commitment" to baseball (see here and here for example). So yeah, I do think he falsely represented to the A's.
   28. Tom Nawrocki Posted: February 13, 2019 at 01:03 PM (#5814944)
Given the fact that he tried to get more money from the A's to stay with baseball, and only then switched to football, yes. Am I mistaken about that?


That appears to be in some dispute:

Mike Leslie of Dallas’s WFAA reported Sunday that Murray is seeking $15 million, but the San Francisco Chronicle cited sources with knowledge of the situation who claimed that figure was inaccurate, with reporter Susan Slusser tweeting that a source said Murray has not made any monetary demands of the A’s. Still, the sources said that the sides are working on “something creative,” possibly a scenario in which Murray gets added to the A’s 40-man roster.


   29. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: February 13, 2019 at 01:06 PM (#5814948)

I do agree that trying to get more money out of the A's was pretty mercenary. As for the other stuff, the guy wasn't even a starter before this season, so I don't think he did anything wrong by entering the MLB draft or saying he was committed to baseball. Even in December 2018 I don't think he was projected as a first-round pick.
   30. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: February 13, 2019 at 01:06 PM (#5814949)
Still, the sources said that the sides are working on “something creative,” possibly a scenario in which Murray gets added to the A’s 40-man roster.
...which would result in him getting more money more quickly, no?
   31. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: February 13, 2019 at 01:09 PM (#5814951)
I don't think he did anything wrong by entering the MLB draft or saying he was committed to baseball.
Neither do I. And I don't think he's doing anything "wrong" now, except to the extent that the A's should be seeking damages but apparently must have had some terrible escape clause in his contract that allowed him to get out with them still paying him $210k. I just think his statements about it are craven and disingenuous.
   32. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: February 13, 2019 at 01:15 PM (#5814955)

I assume he gets to keep $210,000 because he did actually show up to "work" for some period of time. I mean, he didn't play in any minor league games, but I've seen photos of him taking swings in an A's uniform. Did he participate in some sort of rookie camp?
   33. Eddo Posted: February 13, 2019 at 01:28 PM (#5814962)
Even if that is true, he's lost all credibility to claim to be anything other than a mercenary by trying to use his football leverage to extort more money from the A's and then breaking his contract.


This is still wrong. Murray's situation is like someone who was majoring in finance with a minor in art, because his true passion was art. At the start of his senior year, he interviews for plenty of finance positions, because that's where jobs are, and accepts one to start post-graduation.

But then, his senior year, he puts together an art show and it's so successful, he gets discovered and hired by a major art museum. He tells his finance job about this, saying that if they did pay him enough, he'd forgo his main passion for the money. They decline.

So he quits his finance job, expressing that his art curator opportunity is his dream. Which part is craven and which part is disingenuous?
   34. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: February 13, 2019 at 01:36 PM (#5814966)
I would say that student's behavior is pretty mercenary too, especially this part: "He tells his finance job about this, saying that if they did pay him enough, he'd forgo his main passion for the money."
   35. Eddo Posted: February 13, 2019 at 01:39 PM (#5814967)
It's mercenary, sure, but how is it craven or disingenuous?
   36. Steve Parris, Je t'aime Posted: February 13, 2019 at 01:45 PM (#5814973)
You're allowed to pursue your true passion while still negotiating for the most money possible. I don't see how they're mutually exclusive. And I especially don't begrudge someone from doing so when they're subject to a draft and can't pick their employer.
   37. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: February 13, 2019 at 01:53 PM (#5814982)
That jerk Murray and his mercenary attitude towards the billionaires competing for his services.
   38. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: February 13, 2019 at 01:55 PM (#5814984)
I understand where Billy Ripken on this last point. If something has been your love and passion for your entire life, you don't offer to sell out on that for a slightly higher offer. I mean, you can, but people will regard your statements as a bit disingenuous.
   39. GregD Posted: February 13, 2019 at 01:55 PM (#5814985)
As noted in the Slusser column above, the Chronicle's reporting has consistently said that the Murrays never asked the As for a change in the offer or said that a change in the As offer would change their mind. They listened when the As presented options but said they were going to decide on other considerations and would only ask for a change in the offer from the As when they were ready to say yes.
   40. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: February 13, 2019 at 01:59 PM (#5814989)
but said they were going to decide on other considerations and would only ask for a change in the offer from the As when they were ready to say yes.
...so they weren't really deciding on other considerations then, were they? "Other considerations" would mean not asking for a change in the A's offer, period, and just deciding whether his "life's true passion" was baseball or football.
   41. JL72 Posted: February 13, 2019 at 02:00 PM (#5814991)
I just think his statements about it are craven and disingenuous.


I guess, but that is pro sports. Is it any worse than some team signing a player, telling everyone how much they love him, then trading him a year later? Its a business.
   42. Eddo Posted: February 13, 2019 at 02:09 PM (#5815002)
I understand where Billy Ripken on this last point. If something has been your love and passion for your entire life, you don't offer to sell out on that for a slightly higher offer. I mean, you can, but people will regard your statements as a bit disingenuous.


OK, that's fair... though "slightly" is carrying a lot of weight there.
   43. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: February 13, 2019 at 02:15 PM (#5815010)
He's leaving one job offer because he found a better one. Plenty of people do this in much more low profile careers. Spare the sanctimony and faux-outrage.
   44. base ball chick Posted: February 13, 2019 at 02:24 PM (#5815018)
good grief

the A's did NOT put something in the contract where murray agreed to not be drafted for football. and i do believe that it is now against the rules for a draftee to be put on the 40 man

and if murray is in fact taking the second best thing he wants to do, he is supposed to say, what - well, i guess baseball is ok and i'm good enough at it but i'd really rather play football but they don't like the way i look so i guess i'm stuck so yeah, since i have no other choice, i'm committed to play the best baseball player i can be. not that - i agree to play baseball even if i get a much better offer from another sport

and it's like how well traveled ballplayers always say how each team's fans are the best, really the best and they are excited to be there. cmon

i'm not exactly sure why he didn't also have to return the 210K but that had to have been in the contract

i don't get what you are so freaked out about. this happens in the real world all the time - you think you will start work for company X but company Y comes in with a much better offer that you know that company X won't (or in this case, contractually CAN'T) match. so you tell company X that you have changed your mind and say nice things about them. usually you don't have to defend your decision in public like murray did, so you don't get trouble

or
to use a better example
you're dating 2 guys (they both know it) and you hope guy A is gonna pop the question but he doesn't seem to be wanting to be giving up the sincle life so you agree to marry guy B when he asks. but then guy A steps in and says marry me, so you tell guy A you are sorry but you've changed your mind, realized you're in love with someone else and can't go through with it, return the ring, he gets his $$$ back, but you get to keep the flowers and chocolate

now you could say then you shouldn't have agreed to marry guy B but sometimes, you gotta choose from what options you got
   45. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: February 13, 2019 at 02:27 PM (#5815021)
you think you will start work for company X but company Y comes in with a much better offer that you know that company X won't (or in this case, contractually CAN'T) match. so you tell company X that you have changed your mind and say nice things about them.
And if I tried to use company Y’s offer to get more money from company X, but when that was unsuccessful I started saying that it was my lifelong dream to work for company Y, I would be full of crap. That’s all I’m saying.
   46. base ball chick Posted: February 13, 2019 at 02:32 PM (#5815025)
sigh

you would say something nice about thank you for the opportunity you're a great bunch and i wish you the best

etc

now your lifelong dream might could be to make the most money possible my whatever legal means there is to do it, but folks always get all Up Set if you come right out and say - i'm here for the $$$ and the benefits. even if it is the truth. you gotta Say All The Cliches

kind of like how you can NOT tell your woman that her ass looks fat in that dress
   47. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: February 13, 2019 at 03:21 PM (#5815044)
My wife's ass never looks fat in anything, not that I would ever tell her if it did.

you would say something nice about thank you for the opportunity you're a great bunch and i wish you the best
But we're not talking about him saying nice things about the A's. We're talking about him going out of his way to post stuff on Twitter about how passionate he supposedly is about football. He didn't have to say anything at all. He could have just taken his money and been on his way, and when reporters asked, he could have just said a cliche like "I made what I felt was the best decision for me and my family" or whatever.
   48. GregD Posted: February 13, 2019 at 03:50 PM (#5815052)
And if I tried to use company Y’s offer to get more money from company X, but when that was unsuccessful I started saying that it was my lifelong dream to work for company Y, I would be full of crap. That’s all I’m saying.
that is not what the Murrays did
   49. Blastin Posted: February 13, 2019 at 04:18 PM (#5815066)

kind of like how you can NOT tell your woman that her ass looks fat in that dress


But, like Bruno sings, that's what I like, that's what I like.

anyway, yes, I agree with you.
   50. manchestermets Posted: February 13, 2019 at 04:55 PM (#5815076)
Even if that is true, he's lost all credibility to claim to be anything other than a mercenary


A mercenary? In the notably pure world of professional sports? Won't anyone think of the children?

Elroy, you've consistently defended the owners acting in their own best interests in the threads about falling spending on player salaries. Why should a player not do the same? The fact that the proportion of the signing bonus that he had to return to the As was obviously calculated according to an agreed formula shows that the As went into this - as any club drafting a player under the established rules does - with their eyes wide open. Nobody has been connned, or behaved dishonestly.
   51. base ball chick Posted: February 13, 2019 at 05:25 PM (#5815088)
What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: February 13, 2019 at 03:21 PM (#5815044)


But we're not talking about him saying nice things about the A's. We're talking about him going out of his way to post stuff on Twitter about how passionate he supposedly is about football. He didn't have to say anything at all. He could have just taken his money and been on his way, and when reporters asked, he could have just said a cliche like "I made what I felt was the best decision for me and my family" or whatever


- and he has not yet been picked for a team, remember? he has to pimp himself out

saying cliches about his passion etc at this point sounds better than - the best decision stuff which is what you say when you pass over the yankees for the colorado school system
   52. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: February 13, 2019 at 05:34 PM (#5815093)
Elroy, you've consistently defended the owners acting in their own best interests in the threads about falling spending on player salaries. Why should a player not do the same?
Where have I said that Murray doesn't have the right to act in his best interests? I agree that he was within his rights to do so, of course according to the terms of the contract. I'm just rolling my eyes at his disingenuous statements.

But to continue the "turned tables" scenario, how understanding would people here be if teams started breaking contracts with players when they believe their leverage has increased?
   53. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: February 13, 2019 at 05:34 PM (#5815094)
I assume he gets to keep $210,000 because he did actually show up to "work" for some period of time. I mean, he didn't play in any minor league games, but I've seen photos of him taking swings in an A's uniform. Did he participate in some sort of rookie camp?

And they still have his rights if and when he gives up on football - that's something I guess.
   54. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: February 13, 2019 at 05:44 PM (#5815101)
At the time the A's drafted him, Murray had never even been a starter in college, much less a top NFL draft prospect.

But at the same time, Murray wasn't just a run-of-the-mill hotshot HS quarterback either. He was the starting QB for the back-to-back-to-back undefeated state 6A Division I champion Allen High School Eagles, with two of *those* games being complete blowouts at the highest level of HS football in football-crazy Texas (state championship game scores of 35-21, 63-28, and 47-16).

Remember that city in Texas that was so football-crazy that they spent $60 million on a football stadium only to have it break? Yeah, same place.
   55. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: February 13, 2019 at 06:36 PM (#5815113)
And they still have his rights if and when he gives up on football - that's something I guess.

One question that I haven't seen addressed -- if he comes back in a year or two and starts playing baseball for the A's again, do the A's have to pay out that bonus again?
   56. manchestermets Posted: February 14, 2019 at 05:22 AM (#5815187)
Where have I said that Murray doesn't have the right to act in his best interests? I agree that he was within his rights to do so, of course according to the terms of the contract. I'm just rolling my eyes at his disingenuous statements.

But to continue the "turned tables" scenario, how understanding would people here be if teams started breaking contracts with players when they believe their leverage has increased?


If he was within his rights to do so, according to the terms of the contract, he hasn't broken the contract. Who's making disingenuous statements now?
   57. JL72 Posted: February 14, 2019 at 10:23 AM (#5815236)
But to continue the "turned tables" scenario, how understanding would people here be if teams started breaking contracts with players when they believe their leverage has increased?


You mean like they do in football all the time? Or as I noted above, how about when a team signs a guy, telling any and all how much they love him and want him, then turn around and trades him a year later?

Pro sports is a business.
   58. Nasty Nate Posted: February 14, 2019 at 10:48 AM (#5815245)
But to continue the "turned tables" scenario, how understanding would people here be if teams started breaking contracts with players when they believe their leverage has increased?

You mean like they do in football all the time?
An NFL team cutting a player in accordance with the terms of the contract isn't breaking a contract.
   59. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: February 14, 2019 at 10:54 AM (#5815248)
If he was within his rights to do so, according to the terms of the contract, he hasn't broken the contract. Who's making disingenuous statements now?
OK, fair enough, if the "escape clause" was actually in the contract (Are we certain it was, and that they didn't just settle on how he would breach?), then you're right - "breaking" the contract was incorrect shorthand. I think the substance of my point still stands, though: Most people here would be pretty outraged if teams started using perceived leverage gains to reduce players' contracts, even if there was a term in the contract that might have allowed them to do so. People would say "yeah, maybe the team can technically do that, but they're being greedy bastards" (let's stipulate that there wasn't any problem with the player's performance). Do you disagree?
   60. RoyalFlush Posted: February 14, 2019 at 10:57 AM (#5815252)
An NFL team cutting a player in accordance with the terms of the contract isn't breaking a contract.


And neither is what Murray's doing. Otherwise, there wouldn't be an agreed-upon "out" at this point for $200K.
   61. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: February 14, 2019 at 11:11 AM (#5815256)
Most people here would be pretty outraged if teams started using perceived leverage gains to reduce players' contracts, even if there was a term in the contract that might have allowed them to do so. People would say "yeah, maybe the team can technically do that, but they're being greedy bastards" (let's stipulate that there wasn't any problem with the player's performance). Do you disagree?
Actually, come to think of it, you could argue that this is more or less what teams are doing writ large with respect to free agents, and a lot of people's reaction here has indeed been along those lines.
   62. JL72 Posted: February 14, 2019 at 11:22 AM (#5815262)
Most people here would be pretty outraged if teams started using perceived leverage gains to reduce players' contracts, even if there was a term in the contract that might have allowed them to do so.


Again, football does this all the time. They rework the contract to convert a bit of money into guaranteed, then reduce the yearly salary. How much depends on how good the player is and what salary cap room they need. But lots of players get cut because they no longer are worth the yearly salary.

No one really bats an eye over it.
   63. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: February 14, 2019 at 11:38 AM (#5815274)
Again, football does this all the time.
We're not talking about standard practice in football, though. Do you really think that people here wouldn't bat an eye if it started happening in baseball?
   64. JL72 Posted: February 14, 2019 at 11:41 AM (#5815275)
We're not talking about standard practice in football, though. Do you really think that people here wouldn't bat an eye if it started happening in baseball?


I do think the reaction in football tells us something about what we can expect the reaction to be in baseball.

I doubt it would stop teams in baseball. They certainly do it with service time, even if people express outrage over it.
   65. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: February 14, 2019 at 11:49 AM (#5815277)
I mean, sure, people as a whole would probably get used to it in baseball after a while. But you're still not addressing my actual point, which is that the same people here who are not batting an eye over Murray's actions would (I think) take a very different view if teams started acting similarly.
   66. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: February 14, 2019 at 11:58 AM (#5815281)
I don't think teams could "act similarly". This isn't Murray finding a loophole in his contract to become a free agent, like those draft picks did in the late 90s. (Travis Lee? JD Drew? someone like that.) He's leaving baseball for a different career. They still have his rights if he returns, right? Similar to when a player retires. What if a veteran on a 5-year, $20 million contract retires halfway through because he can make more money as a movie star or something, or just because he's sick of baseball - seems like the same thing.
   67. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: February 14, 2019 at 12:20 PM (#5815288)
I don't think teams could "act similarly".
Agreed that it would be difficult to come up with the exact circumstances (at least based on the 3 minutes of thought I put into trying to do so), but this is a purely theoretical hypothetical - which has to be the name of a terrible jam band somewhere.

What if a veteran on a 5-year, $20 million contract retires halfway through because he can make more money as a movie star or something, or just because he's sick of baseball - seems like the same thing.
You're forgetting the part where the veteran tried to use the movie leverage to get more money from the team, wasn't able to, and then started talking about how acting has always been his first love and passion. There's also the element of him saying he was 100% fully committed to baseball around draft time and now the A's have nothing to show for their first-round pick.
   68. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: February 14, 2019 at 12:23 PM (#5815292)
Today's SMBC comic seems apropos.
   69. JL72 Posted: February 14, 2019 at 12:26 PM (#5815293)
But you're still not addressing my actual point, which is that the same people here who are not batting an eye over Murray's actions would (I think) take a very different view if teams started acting similarly.


And I am saying they already do, such as with service time manipulation. To mixed reviews for sure, but not universally condemned. And not enough for teams not to continue doing it.
   70. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: February 14, 2019 at 12:43 PM (#5815304)
And I am saying they already do, such as with service time manipulation. To mixed reviews for sure, but not universally condemned.
As far as I can tell, service time manipulation is pretty close to universally condemned by the people here who are completely OK with Murray's handling of this situation.
   71. base ball chick Posted: February 14, 2019 at 02:39 PM (#5815364)
What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: February 14, 2019 at 12:43 PM (#5815304)

And I am saying they already do, such as with service time manipulation. To mixed reviews for sure, but not universally condemned.

As far as I can tell, service time manipulation is pretty close to universally condemned by the people here who are completely OK with Murray's handling of this situation


- because murray did nothing wrong. he was upfront with the team and it was in the contract. BOTH knew there was some chance that he would go to football. the A's bet he wouldn't and lost. by terms of the CBA which the team AND agents know, the slot bonus is in concrete and the team CAN'T offer him more later or even a spot on the ML team or 40 man. this is NOT a question and am not sure why you keep bringing it up, altough this is done in actual business situations. person tells company A - company B has offered me more to be with them. can you do better?

- what is not clear here?

and how is this any different from the astros promising brady Aiken X dollars to sign as first pick and then reneging and screwing brady out of ANY $$$ - and they got nothing for their first round neither

there are winners and losers in any bet and murray and the A's were betting

i really do not get exactly what you think murray has done wrong besides he didn't use the right cliches about just happy to be here and hope i can help the ballclub? was he too radical in a tubular sort of way?
   72. base ball chick Posted: February 14, 2019 at 02:46 PM (#5815367)
suppposed he had auditioned for a part as the hero in a new action movie and told the A's that if he got the part he would be taking it and the A's figure - a Black action hero the size of tom cruise?
pls.
he be happy to get the 4.5 mill to ride buses in horse poopoo west virginia. so they are happy to sign the out clause
and murray says - just happy to be here and hope i can help the ballclub god willing

but to their surprise, murray gets the part and is pimped as the next Blackie Chan and goes off to collect his 12 mill and sez, happy to be here, the rock got big shoes to fill but ima try to be the biggest baddest action hero i can be

you still got a problem with this? and if so, why?
   73. JL72 Posted: February 14, 2019 at 03:22 PM (#5815381)
As far as I can tell, service time manipulation is pretty close to universally condemned by the people here who are completely OK with Murray's handling of this situation.


Here, yes. Not sure that is true for others.
   74. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: February 14, 2019 at 03:35 PM (#5815388)
because murray did nothing wrong. he was upfront with the team and it was in the contract. BOTH knew there was some chance that he would go to football. the A's bet he wouldn't and lost.
Obviously none of us know what was actually said in the predraft discussions between the A's and Murray/Boras. But based on Murray's public statements, and based on every word that has ever come out of Scott Boras's mouth, I believe it is likely that there was some level of misrepresentation as to Murray's actual level of commitment to baseball at that time.

this is NOT a question and am not sure why you keep bringing it up, altough this is done in actual business situations. person tells company A - company B has offered me more to be with them. can you do better?
And if the business person has signed a contract with company A and then breaches it for more money than company B, we say that is wrong and allow company A to sue for damages. Now, if the contract has an escape clause, as may have been the case here*, he is of course within his rights to exercise it - but that, in combination with first trying to leverage a larger contract, is entirely mercenary behavior. And of course he certainly has the right to be a mercenary (although see above re: misrepresentation), but we also have the right to roll our eyes when he starts talking about his lifelong passion and "full commitment" and whatnot.

*Although it's hard to understand why the A's would agree to a provision that allowed Murray to get out and still keep $210k.

   75. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: February 14, 2019 at 03:36 PM (#5815390)
and how is this any different from the astros promising brady Aiken X dollars to sign as first pick and then reneging and screwing brady out of ANY $$$ - and they got nothing for their first round neither
If it's not any different than that situation, and you're describing that situation as a "screwing," doesn't that support my point?
   76. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: February 14, 2019 at 03:37 PM (#5815393)
suppposed he had auditioned for a part as the hero in a new action movie and told the A's that if he got the part he would be taking it and the A's figure - a Black action hero the size of tom cruise?
pls.
he be happy to get the 4.5 mill to ride buses in horse poopoo west virginia. so they are happy to sign the out clause
and murray says - just happy to be here and hope i can help the ballclub god willing

but to their surprise, murray gets the part and is pimped as the next Blackie Chan and goes off to collect his 12 mill and sez, happy to be here, the rock got big shoes to fill but ima try to be the biggest baddest action hero i can be

you still got a problem with this? and if so, why?
This is great, by the way. Made me smile. I think my response above addresses this, right?
   77. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: February 14, 2019 at 03:42 PM (#5815398)
a Black action hero the size of tom cruise?
pls.
Counterpoint: Wesley Snipes claims to be 5'9", only two inches taller than Cruise claims to be (so they're both probably around 3'10"), and he made a bunch of money as an action hero. (Just ask the IRS.)
   78. base ball chick Posted: February 14, 2019 at 03:45 PM (#5815400)
in order for there to be a contract with any sort of opt out clause, murray HAD to tell the A's there was a chance that he could stand for the NFL draft. they KNEW he played football. he did NOT sign anything waiving his right to go to football. if he did they could sue him, not just get their draft money back. and they sure wouldn't retain his rights or give him 200K for no reason whatsoever

obviously, he did NOT sign a no opt out clause with company A

he didn't and he CAN'T try to leverage a larger contract. the A's themselves said so. who else do you need to deny this?

teams are mercenary and players need to be equally mercenary. this is not a group of folks playing some pick up game for fun. this is not the police. it is business plain and simple. and it is really too bad he couldn't leverage a bigger contract because they need all the leverage they can get and they got almost none

he spits stupid cliches because in this here modern world, we require athletes to do this. we want to hear that nonsense. we get angry if they DON'T say the usual crap. it's like when some woman marries a guy she KNOWS is a male slut who will continue to be a slut after marriage he still goes to the ceremony and says nonsense about "forsaking all others" - they both know it is a lie, even sworn to God, but they say it anyway.

can you imagine the players actually telling the truth? well, it's crap money for what i'm really worth and much worse guys got lots more money BITGOD but i guess i'm stuck. cmon.
   79. Tom Nawrocki Posted: February 14, 2019 at 03:51 PM (#5815404)
But based on Murray's public statements, and based on every word that has ever come out of Scott Boras's mouth, I believe it is likely that there was some level of misrepresentation as to Murray's actual level of commitment to baseball at that time.


Murray's situation has changed dramatically since then, what with him winning the Heisman and projecting as a first round draft pick in the NFL, which he wasn't at that time. I don't know for sure, and you don't either, but it seems highly likely to me that he was fully expecting to commit to baseball at that time.
   80. base ball chick Posted: February 14, 2019 at 03:55 PM (#5815405)
i got NO idea why the opt out clause lets murray keep 210K. i suppose to "keep his rights" but what good he's gonna do them as a football failure i don't know (and tebow is not going to be a good major leaguer - he's good for minor league attendance and jersey sales and clicks)
- can't think of anyone offhand who played football, quit, then had a ML baseball career

didn't know wesley snipes was that small - and i guess i don't really think of him as an action star - i guess that plane movie and the stallone movie
   81. base ball chick Posted: February 14, 2019 at 03:57 PM (#5815406)
actually
i don't know if there is any sort of law that would give the A's grounds for a lawsuit if murray said - ima retire and refund all the money, then went and did something else for a living
   82. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: February 14, 2019 at 04:02 PM (#5815409)
i guess that plane movie and the stallone movie
The Blade movies too.
   83. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: February 14, 2019 at 04:09 PM (#5815413)
in order for there to be a contract with any sort of opt out clause, murray HAD to tell the A's there was a chance that he could stand for the NFL draft. they KNEW he played football. he did NOT sign anything waiving his right to go to football.
Well, again, we don't know the actual contract language. But of course it's possible (although weird) that there was an escape clause leading to exactly what's happened. However, the existence of an escape clause isn't incompatible with Boras/Murray misrepresenting themselves - for example, if they told the A's it was very unlikely that they would ever exercise the clause, because Murray was fully committed to baseball.

he didn't and he CAN'T try to leverage a larger contract. the A's themselves said so. who else do you need to deny this?
There were all kinds of reports about MLB allowing the A's to give him extra perks to try to get him to stay with baseball - which would have resulted in him getting more money sooner, at least to my understanding.

   84. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: February 14, 2019 at 04:09 PM (#5815414)

I am sort of between Elroy and everyone else on this. I think Elroy is a bit over-the-top in his criticism of Murray but the analogies people are making as counterarguments are not good. For example:

person tells company A - company B has offered me more to be with them. can you do better?

Yes, in the real business world this is not cool. It occasionally happens but you're supposed to do this stuff before you accept the offer from Company A, not afterwards. When my group hires people or promotes them, we typically expect them to be here for a couple of years. If we hire someone and they end up taking a job somewhere else before they even start here, or within the first year, it is viewed quite negatively. And if I knew someone had done this with a previous employer it would be a strike against them in their candidacy -- although not an insurmountable one (I get it, sometimes a company just isn't a good fit, sometimes your spouse gets a job in another city and you need to move...these things sometimes happen).

Like, if we hire someone and then they get offered a qualitatively different job (like a client offers to make them CFO or Treasurer), then I say congratulations and good luck. But I expect that they won't be be out there interviewing for similar jobs with our competitors during that first year. And if they were already interviewing with competing firms, they'll withdraw from consideration for those positions when they accept an offer from us.

suppposed he had auditioned for a part as the hero in a new action movie and told the A's that if he got the part he would be taking it and the A's figure - a Black action hero the size of tom cruise?
pls.


I enjoyed the example but the analogy isn't really apt, since Murray told the A's he *wasn't* auditioning for the part and that he was fully committed to baseball. That being said, I think Murray's circumstances changed enough that he was being sincere with the A's, and I don't blame him for changing his mind when he realized he could be a first round NFL pick.
   85. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: February 14, 2019 at 04:10 PM (#5815415)
it's like when some woman marries a guy she KNOWS is a male slut who will continue to be a slut after marriage he still goes to the ceremony and says nonsense about "forsaking all others" - they both know it is a lie, even sworn to God, but they say it anyway.
...and everyone at the ceremony rolls their eyes, at least internally.
   86. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: February 14, 2019 at 04:11 PM (#5815416)
Murray's situation has changed dramatically since then, what with him winning the Heisman and projecting as a first round draft pick in the NFL, which he wasn't at that time. I don't know for sure, and you don't either, but it seems highly likely to me that he was fully expecting to commit to baseball at that time.
Eh, "I'm fully committed...for now, unless circumstances change such that I have more leverage" isn't really "I'm fully committed."
   87. JL72 Posted: February 14, 2019 at 04:18 PM (#5815420)
Murray's situation has changed dramatically since then, what with him winning the Heisman and projecting as a first round draft pick in the NFL, which he wasn't at that time. I don't know for sure, and you don't either, but it seems highly likely to me that he was fully expecting to commit to baseball at that time.


I suspect so as well. I would also not be surprised if there was some puffery in telling the A's how excited he was and the like.

Just like when a player is traded. I am sure the team really wanted them when they originally signed, but circumstances change. Does not mean their original statements were dishonest.
   88. base ball chick Posted: February 14, 2019 at 04:24 PM (#5815426)
What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: February 14, 2019 at 04:09 PM (#5815413)

But of course it's possible (although weird) that there was an escape clause leading to exactly what's happened. However, the existence of an escape clause isn't incompatible with Boras/Murray misrepresenting themselves - for example, if they told the A's it was very unlikely that they would ever exercise the clause, because Murray was fully committed to baseball.


- if he really WAS fully committed to baseball no matter what, there wouldn't have been any reason to have an escape clause. don't think even kyler really thought he was gonna turn into the next wesley snipes

- i'm sure he told the A's all the usual stuff about Excited To Be Here and I Love All Yall etc



he didn't and he CAN'T try to leverage a larger contract. the A's themselves said so. who else do you need to deny this?

There were all kinds of reports about MLB allowing the A's to give him extra perks to try to get him to stay with baseball - which would have resulted in him getting more money sooner, at least to my understanding


- the A's might could have looked into it, but they still can't do it, and murray didn't ask them to
   89. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: February 14, 2019 at 04:30 PM (#5815429)
the A's might could have looked into it, but they still can't do it, and murray didn't ask them to
Even the source(s) that dispute that Murray/Boras asked for a more favorable deal up front don't go so far as to claim they weren't planning to do so. From #39 above:

They listened when the As presented options but said they were going to decide on other considerations and would only ask for a change in the offer from the As when they were ready to say yes.
So there was at least a plan to hit the A's up for more favorable terms once they figured out exactly what it would take to make him stick with baseball.
   90. Tom Nawrocki Posted: February 14, 2019 at 04:31 PM (#5815431)
Eh, "I'm fully committed...for now, unless circumstances change such that I have more leverage" isn't really "I'm fully committed."


Well, I just think that's hugely unfair, especially for a kid who was 20 years old when he was supposedly thinking about his future "leverage." Murray's circumstances changed to the maximum possible extent in the fall of 2018, to the point that he had become the best player in college football. If you think he was being disingenuous because he didn't warn the A's that he might choose the NFL if he won the Heisman, well... I don't have anything else to say about this.
   91. base ball chick Posted: February 14, 2019 at 04:33 PM (#5815432)
Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: February 14, 2019 at 04:09 PM (#5815414)

I am sort of between Elroy and everyone else on this. I think Elroy is a bit over-the-top in his criticism of Murray but the analogies people are making as counterarguments are not good. For example:

person tells company A - company B has offered me more to be with them. can you do better?

Yes, in the real business world this is not cool. It occasionally happens but you're supposed to do this stuff before you accept the offer from Company A, not afterwards. When my group hires people or promotes them, we typically expect them to be here for a couple of years. If we hire someone and they end up taking a job somewhere else before they even start here, or within the first year, it is viewed quite negatively. And if I knew someone had done this with a previous employer it would be a strike against them in their candidacy -- although not an insurmountable one (I get it, sometimes a company just isn't a good fit, sometimes your spouse gets a job in another city and you need to move...these things sometimes happen).


- i see what you are saying

but i think murray is just a little different because he had an opt out clause which is something you don't have in your standard employment contract

i am not in big bidness so i honestly don't know - DO people applying - before signing - tell you that they have a better offer from another company and can you improve on your offer? or do they have to pretend that they aren't considering anything else?

   92. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: February 14, 2019 at 04:33 PM (#5815433)

Why do people keep using the term "escape clause"? Murray signed a contract, but like just about any employee he can walk away from that contract and keep the money he earned up to that point. Like I said earlier, he hasn't played in the minors at all but he did work out with the A's as documented by some photos I've seen of him in uniform.

Standard minor league contract provides for 7 years of team control, so for a $4.66m bonus that means $666k per year pro-rated. So keeping $210k is basically saying he was employed by the A's for less than one third of a season. I don't know how much training he actually did with them but it doesn't seem crazy that he could have "earned" a few months of that bonus even under a standard contract.

Eh, "I'm fully committed...for now, unless circumstances change such that I have more leverage" isn't really "I'm fully committed."

Right, but I think most normal people understand that when a 20-year-old says he's "fully committed", that there's a chance circumstances will change, and it doesn't bear the same contractual weight as, say, when a bank "commits" to give you a loan.
   93. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: February 14, 2019 at 04:37 PM (#5815435)

i am not in big bidness so i honestly don't know - DO people applying - before signing - tell you that they have a better offer from another company and can you improve on your offer?

Yes, this happens. And I agree with you that the Murray situation is very different from a normal employment agreement.

   94. base ball chick Posted: February 14, 2019 at 04:46 PM (#5815442)
Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: February 14, 2019 at 04:33 PM (#5815433)

Why do people keep using the term "escape clause"?


- that may be my own misunderstanding. i had thought that other 2 sport athletes had it written in their contract that they would not do the other sport or go into the draft. isn't that what happened with samarzjdia? and todd helton? so i thought that he must have some kind of clause that unlike other athletes, would allow him to break the contract?
   95. base ball chick Posted: February 14, 2019 at 04:51 PM (#5815445)
What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: February 14, 2019 at 04:30 PM (#5815429)

They listened when the As presented options but said they were going to decide on other considerations and would only ask for a change in the offer from the As when they were ready to say yes.

So there was at least a plan to hit the A's up for more favorable terms once they figured out exactly what it would take to make him stick with baseball


- well, listening is polite

but in reality there was nothing the A's COULD do because they can't increase the bonus and they can't put him on the 40 man or allow him to go to arb sooner. or promise that he wouldn't spend any time in the minors. or pay him 7 millioin his first year in the minors to compensate for the loss of $$$ he would get in the NFL draft

so what "options" could there really be?
   96. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: February 14, 2019 at 04:52 PM (#5815446)

#94, I'm not sure - I haven't seen any reporting about the details.
   97. Eddo Posted: February 14, 2019 at 05:20 PM (#5815455)
person tells company A - company B has offered me more to be with them. can you do better?

Yes, in the real business world this is not cool. It occasionally happens but you're supposed to do this stuff before you accept the offer from Company A, not afterwards. When my group hires people or promotes them, we typically expect them to be here for a couple of years. If we hire someone and they end up taking a job somewhere else before they even start here, or within the first year, it is viewed quite negatively. And if I knew someone had done this with a previous employer it would be a strike against them in their candidacy -- although not an insurmountable one (I get it, sometimes a company just isn't a good fit, sometimes your spouse gets a job in another city and you need to move...these things sometimes happen).


I'm on board with just about everything you're posting, Dave, but I'm not sure about this one. As you note in post #92, Murray did actually work for the A's for a while, and as you've noted a lot, he signed with the A's quite a while before his football star rose.

So while I would also hold the situation you describe against someone I've hired (side note: I vaguely recall from past discussions we both work in IT), I don't think it's fully analogous to the Murray situation. I've had people work for me for around a year, then leave for more money (and give the same "this is my offer from the other place, do you have a counter?" proposal), and don't begrudge them for leaving. In fact, we've hired some people back after they've been gone for a period of time.
   98. Eddo Posted: February 14, 2019 at 05:22 PM (#5815456)
can't think of anyone offhand who played football, quit, then had a ML baseball career

Brian Jordan did this, right? He played for the Falcons, then quit and moved to baseball full-time.

He's a little different that your hypothetical, though, because he was actually a decent football player, not a failure there (5 interceptions in 40 career games, and weirdly, per P-F-R, 2 safeties).
   99. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: February 14, 2019 at 05:30 PM (#5815459)
Why do people keep using the term "escape clause"? Murray signed a contract, but like just about any employee he can walk away from that contract and keep the money he earned up to that point.
That was just something I used for shorthand. If an employee walks away from a contract, the employer can sue for damages - they're not obligated to just say "Oh, OK, here's your prorated payout," because of course they may have been damaged in ways that effectively just shortening the contract wouldn't capture. That's very much true in the case of a team using a first-round draft choice. If he did breach the contract, the A's would be well within their rights to demand the entire bonus back (and even some additional payout based on the value of the pick). If there was an "out" or early termination clause, the A's would have been foolish to agree to pay him for doing pretty much nothing for them for a few months, while also not recouping any of the value of the wasted draft pick.
   100. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: February 14, 2019 at 05:33 PM (#5815463)
but in reality there was nothing the A's COULD do because they can't increase the bonus and they can't put him on the 40 man or allow him to go to arb sooner. or promise that he wouldn't spend any time in the minors. or pay him 7 millioin his first year in the minors to compensate for the loss of $$$ he would get in the NFL draft

so what "options" could there really be?
See this article.

"That creative solution could involve the A's putting Murray on their 40-man roster and signing him to a big-league contract, which would ensure he is paid more than the $4.66 million signing bonus he received in June as the No. 9 pick in the MLB draft. Such a move would require approval from MLB, in order to ensure that Murray and the A's did not reach an agreement on a major-league deal before he was drafted."

Page 1 of 2 pages  1 2 > 

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

News

All News | Prime News

Old-School Newsstand


BBTF Partner

Dynasty League Baseball

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
cardsfanboy
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogOT - Catch-All Pop Culture Extravaganza (February 2019)
(177 - 9:29am, Feb 18)
Last: Swoboda is freedom

NewsblogWalt Davis on Projections
(9 - 9:26am, Feb 18)
Last: eric

NewsblogRob Manfred blames Bryce Harper for going unsigned
(2 - 9:22am, Feb 18)
Last: Dolf Lucky

NewsblogAlbert Pujols predicts he'll be everyday player at age 39
(5 - 9:05am, Feb 18)
Last: jingoist

NewsblogStroman unhappy with Blue Jays' lack of veteran leadership
(1 - 8:57am, Feb 18)
Last: bbmck

NewsblogJ.D. Martinez: ‘For a DH to win MVP, they’re going to have to walk on water’
(1 - 8:43am, Feb 18)
Last: bbmck

NewsblogDid The Cubs Miss Their Chance To Be A Dynasty?
(18 - 7:46am, Feb 18)
Last: McCoy

NewsblogFour teams are in on Mike Moustakas
(19 - 2:55am, Feb 18)
Last: bbmck

NewsblogCC Sabathia has chance to bolster Hall of Fame case before retiring after 2019 season
(71 - 2:44am, Feb 18)
Last: bbmck

NewsblogCardinals taking it slowly with Ozuna’s repaired shoulder
(2 - 9:35pm, Feb 17)
Last: Sit down, Sleepy has lots of stats

NewsblogRed Sox' Dustin Pedroia says, in hindsight, he shouldn't have had knee surgery
(21 - 8:55pm, Feb 17)
Last: Walt Davis

NewsblogLuis Severino Agrees to 4-Year Deal as Yankees Try to Lock Up Young Core
(9 - 8:32pm, Feb 17)
Last: Jose is an Absurd Kahuna

NewsblogNightengale: Trevor Bauer's radical idea on MLB contracts could benefit everyone
(25 - 8:12pm, Feb 17)
Last: cardsfanboy

NewsblogWhy is David Price wearing No. 10? Red Sox hurler keeps switch a mystery
(20 - 3:14pm, Feb 17)
Last: bobm

NewsblogOT Soccer Thread, v.2019
(189 - 2:37pm, Feb 17)
Last: spivey

Page rendered in 0.6948 seconds
46 querie(s) executed