Baseball “has come a long way in the last seven years,” said Dr. Gary I. Wadler, a New York sports medicine expert and a key official of the World Anti-Doping Agency. “But it’s still not where it needs to be.”

And where, exactly, does it need to be? Daily blood tests? Stress positions for athletes who fail?

where it needs to be? like, say, football?

and the drug manny is supposed to be allowed to take for erectile dysfunction that is NOT banned by baseball is?????

(viagra screws - hahahaha - up the eyesight, so that wouldn't work)

Sources confirmed to The Times that the drug in question is human chorionic gonadotropin, or HCG

Great. More "sources".

“But for a man of his age [36] with a testosterone deficiency, there are much better drugs.”

if wadler was ramirez's doctor that would be his call. whether or not manny's story is true, i'm very uncomfortable with anyone besides the patient and the doctor deciding on treatments. these anti-doping policies seem to create more problems than they attempt to solve... and i don't believe for a second that this suspension, or any punishment, helps make baseball players cleaner, safer, or baseball in general better off.

Yet Howard Jacobs, a leading defense attorney for athletes accused of doping offenses, said that “it’s fair to say” the Ramirez case signals that Major League Baseball is serious about stamping out doping. “He’s as big a player as there is.”

What #1 said. The fact that they caught Manny Ramirez is actually an argument in SUPPORT of MLB's anti-doping program. They're catching cheaters, even big-name ones.

The prison sentence of any random criminal on Thursday has revived a debate that prosecutors and police officials undoubtedly hoped they had put behind they: Is the use of prison sentences harsh enough to deter potential criminals, or is it still too lenient?

Why do we think MLB can accomplish something that our society never has? The elimination of bad behavior.

Wadler, of course, depends on steroid hysteria for his livelihood.

And where, exactly, does it need to be?

At a place where its not easily defeatable, and can catch a majority of athletes that dope.

Daily blood tests?

Nope, but some additional testing might be a good start. If there is more testing, there is a better chance that people will not try to cycle around the tests. Manny's situation is illustrative.

After you roid off, you just re-energize the natual testerone, and time it before the pre-season test. With the frequency of the "random" offseason testing, you have decent odds of cycling around it, especially if you do it after you have a test.

In 2007-2008 MLB conducted 3486 tests. Two tests are compulsory at the start of the season and during the season. That means you aren't likely to get many of those random tests conducted.

Second, MLB can slow down their grant rate of TUEs. In 2007-2008 alone, MLB granted 108 TUEs for Adult Attention Deficit Disorder. Application rates for ADHD exceptions to take amphetamines is at about 8.8% of the MLB population. Hell, if Manny told MLB he needed some female fertility drugs for his limp noodle, he might have even gotten permission.

Finally, MLB can save samples for later retesting of:

(1) Drugs for which there aren't current tests (e.g. HgH)
(2) Drugs manufactured for the purpose of evading detection (e.g. the next THG).

IOW, not that it would slow down the snark one little bit, there is plenty MLB could do. Rather than reinvent the wheel, they could just implement WADA guidelines.

(2) Drugs manufactured for the purpose of evading detection (e.g. the next THG).

In other words, we want to explicitly create an ex post facto situation in which MLB can find something it doesn't like and retroactively bust everyone it later catches.

In other words, we want to explicitly create an ex post facto situation in which MLB can find something it doesn't like and retroactively bust everyone it later catches.

No. Cute snark though. If you want to talk rather than try to put words in someone's mouth than I will happily discuss it with you.

First, you might want to understand how you can (and sports do) legislate without having to name something by its chemical compound. After you have that understanding, I will be happy to answer any questions you may have, or discuss it with you if you have the capacity to communicate without snark.

While I'm not a big fan of Wadler and his agenda, his statement regarding using HCG fits with what my exercise physiologist colleagues have told me. It makes no sense for Manny to have been prescribed that drug for the stated problem. The main reason to take this drug is in conjunction with a cycle of anabolic steroids.

JCB

well he sure as heck can't take viagra and every other drug to treat it is on the banned list

so WITHOUT HAVING TO CONFESS TO ANYONE THAT HE IS IMPOTENT

(and for some odd reason, that seems to be important to a whole lot of men especially the macho types)

what could a physician prescribe for him? and as far as we know, this was a real physician not just an internet drug site

BBC, assuming that he really needs it for the true medical reason, he could do what every other player has been doing to obtain permission to use a drug or substance on the banned list, and seek a theraputic use waiver.

Yeah, it might be a bit awkward, but it'd probably be a lot less so than being subject to a 50 game suspension.

well he sure as heck can't take viagra and every other drug to treat it is on the banned list


Are cialis and levitra on the banned list? Also, I thought the eyesite contraindication was only for people with heart disease.

Also, according to his story, the physician did check the banned list, he just apparently checked the wrong one.

I'd been loathe to address it because I didn't feel I had the words or expertise to back a cogent argument, but since BBC brought it up, I'll give it a try.

It makes no sense for Manny to have been prescribed that drug for the stated problem.

We have no idea what the "stated problem" is, because there hasn't been one. We only have people both here and in the media chose to cherry-pick which applications of hGC they want to, to be either the most damning or the most embarrassing.

Merck's page on Impaired Spermatogenesis

Isn't it possible - just possible - that Manny and his wife are trying to have another child, but he's developed an abnormal spermatological condition? (Yes, one of those causes is anabolic and/or corticosteroids) And isn't it possible - just possible - that he was prescribed the hGC for a legitimate medical treatment? (Note - not what Viagra treats, but even if it did, given the anecdotal claim above that it interferes with eyesight, why would a hitter choose a treatment that impinges on one of his tools? (No, not that one)) And viewed through the lens of the stereotypically macho Latin culture, isn't it just possible that Manuel Aristides Ramirez would rather take a hit to his baseball reputation and his Hall of Fame chances, than admit a sexual dysfunction to the entire world?

And isn't it just possible that instead of fighting the suspension, he said, "You're right, regardless of what I thought at the time, this is a violation of the rules and I'm going to abide by them."

I'm not trying to make excuses, I'm not trying to be an apologist, just trying to say that, like many of you, I'm sick of people's rush to judgement based on a dearth of facts. Why is it so hard to extend the benefit of the doubt to anyone? And I'm not talking from here to eternity, I just mean for like, a couple of days to see how things play out.

Isn't there a procedure available for players who have a legitimate need of a banned drug? It's a shame that Manny doesn't have someone who represents him who might have some background on these issues. An agent or something might have been very helpful if Manny was running into the concerns Hector mentioned.

I love Manny Ramirez as a ball player, not even the Sox taint can change that fact. Not even game 2 of the 2007 ALDS could change it. That said, I don't see how I can reasonably conclude anything other than he was breaking the rules. When you do that, you get busted. Period. If it is the case that you have a legitimate medical problem, the time for addressing your need to break the rule is before you get caught doing it, not after. Particularly when the rule your breaking is one that happens to be receiving a bit of attention.

ryan -

IF he had happened to get something NOT on the banned list, like he supposedly thought he was doing, then he wouldn't have had to tell anyone but his doctor about what i guess was (to him) a very embarrassing problem.

maybe all the people throwing rocks at him wouldn't have no trouble announcing to everyone that he has penis problems but there sure nuff are a lot of men who would. heck there are a LOT of men who would rather be impotent for YEARS and have no sex life at ALL then have to have to confess the truth to absolutely ANYONE. even a doctor.

BL -

if i understand the viagra thingy rightly, it screws up some kind of distance perception and i think it happens to some extent in every man and it messes with the blue/green color perception. not sure how that would have anything to do with hitting a ball, but i have heard that ballplayers won't touch it at least during the season

as for cialis/levitra - not sure about those but i heard that they have a whole bunch of other side effects.

then again i haven't never tried any of em...

Isn't there a procedure available for players who have a legitimate need of a banned drug? It's a shame that Manny doesn't have someone who represents him who might have some background on these issues. An agent or something might have been very helpful if Manny was running into the concerns Hector mentioned.

Depends on who you believe. Supposedly, Manny's doctor who prescribed the banned substance checked an odd list that didn't have HGC banned, but it was added this off season. (The question of course would be when it was added. Nov? Dec? Jan?) Why ask for a wavier when you think its not on the banned substance list?

News to me. Viagra didn't stop Palmeiro from getting his 3000 hits and 500 homers.

News to me. Viagra didn't stop Palmeiro from getting his 3000 hits and 500 homers.

For him, the most difficult part was remembering which bat to swing.

I eagerly await to hear what Dick Pound has to say on this matter!

/sarcasm
/annoyed Canadian

I suppose I cold see that Tripon, but I'm highly skeptical that any player these days would trust their Doctor that way. There are some big time stakes involved in terms of dollars, reputation, and diminishing opportunity to play ball. I'm having trouble envisioning a scenario where there aren't more people involved when Manny Ramirez decides he needs medical care, particularly that kind of medical care. Of course I could be totally wrong on that one (Manny is uh, special) but I'd need to see a lot of evidence before I bought that kind of a story.

I also understand why Manny might not want to discuss that kind of evidence but I'm still pretty skeptical about the innocent mistake claim.

No. Cute snark though. If you want to talk rather than try to put words in someone's mouth than I will happily discuss it with you.

First, you might want to understand how you can (and sports do) legislate without having to name something by its chemical compound. After you have that understanding, I will be happy to answer any questions you may have, or discuss it with you if you have the capacity to communicate without snark.

No, no snark here. I'm deadly serious. The explicit point of what he's proposing is to try to pre-legislate drugs that they might not like in the future without having to name them. That's making something an offense in the future without specifying what it is that's banned. We have a law against Congress trying stunts like that written into the Constitution. Now, granted, this is MLB doing it, but the principle's the same: it's a retroactive gotcha. And just because some other leagues or sports pull shenanigans like this doesn't make it moral or just or right.