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Tuesday, December 10, 2013

LAT: Magglio Ordonez goes from MLB star to socialist mayor in one year

Ordonez did not indicate whether he planned to redistribute the $133,470,746 he earned in the bigs.

The former player for the Chicago White Sox and Detroit Tigers was elected mayor of Sotillo, an eastern Venezuelan city with approximately 250,000 citizens, this weekend.

Ordonez is a member of the United Socialist Party of Venezuela and a supporter of President Nicolas Maduro, who announced the six-time All Star’s election at a rally Sunday.

Maduro is known to turn to celebrity candidates to help bolster support in the midst of rising anger with his economic policies.

JE (Jason Epstein) Posted: December 10, 2013 at 12:57 AM | 21 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: magglio ordonez, politics, socialism

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   1. RMc's desperate, often sordid world Posted: December 10, 2013 at 09:34 AM (#4614911)
Other Tigers in politics: Billy Rogell was a longtime Detroit city councilman, and Aurelio Lopez was elected municipal president (sort of a combined mayor/county executive) in his hometown in Mexico.
   2. Dan Lee prefers good shortstops to great paintings Posted: December 10, 2013 at 10:05 AM (#4614931)
I'm disappointed to learn that he's not the mayor of Milwaukee.
   3. Mickey Henry Mays Posted: December 10, 2013 at 10:44 AM (#4614944)
Ordonez did not indicate whether he planned to redistribute the $133,470,746 he earned in the bigs



Socialists become Capitalists when it comes to their own money.
   4. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: December 10, 2013 at 10:47 AM (#4614946)
And vice-versa when the money of certain baseball franchises is concerned. Interesting, that.
   5. Publius Publicola Posted: December 10, 2013 at 10:56 AM (#4614950)
Is Denny McLain available?
   6. Juan Uribe Marching and Chowder Society Posted: December 10, 2013 at 02:13 PM (#4615178)
And vice-versa when the money of certain baseball franchises is concerned.


Most Americans would agree that a wildly successful company should pay their talent top dollar. Except in baseball--baseball teams should find the best talent and force them into six years of underpaid service. Like if everyone at Google made minimum wage.
   7. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: December 10, 2013 at 02:20 PM (#4615191)
Damn socialists can even take two years and make them half as valuable.
   8. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: December 10, 2013 at 02:40 PM (#4615239)
Except in baseball--baseball teams should find the best talent and force them into six years of underpaid service.

Lot of this going around today.

Take it up with "Hall of Famer" Marvin Miller.

Like if everyone at Google made minimum wage.

They use their brains. Baseball players are entertainers.
   9. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: December 10, 2013 at 02:58 PM (#4615256)
Let's take the opportunity here to avoid turning this into a horrific political thread, and ask SugarBear Blanks what the hell he means by constantly whining about Marvin Miller as if he was the enemy of the common man.
   10. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: December 10, 2013 at 03:09 PM (#4615273)
Let's take the opportunity here to avoid turning this into a horrific political thread, and ask SugarBear Blanks what the hell he means by constantly whining about Marvin Miller as if he was the enemy of the common man.

Not whining about him, simply pointing out what I pointed out years ago, which is that he bargained away most players' right to pick their employer (*) in favor of mere money. It seemed interesting, in the near wake of the HOF vote, that two people on two different threads have complained about the wages and work conditions of pre-free agent major leaguers.(**)

So I said so.

(*) I.e., institutionalized and ratified what Curt Flood and many observers of the reserve clause era called "slavery."

(**) Without, of course, linking it to the man responsible.
   11. Bitter Mouse Posted: December 10, 2013 at 03:16 PM (#4615284)
They use their brains. Baseball players are entertainers.


Why on Earth is this a relevant distinction in this or any other universe?

he bargained away most players' right to pick their employer (*) in favor of mere money


What an interesting spin on what happened. I assume your newsletter is written in crayon, but I would still like to subscribe!
   12. madvillain Posted: December 10, 2013 at 03:27 PM (#4615296)
Why on Earth is this a relevant distinction in this or any other universe?


I'd offer that Manny Ramirez has contributed more to the human race than anyone at Google, save for the founders.
   13. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: December 10, 2013 at 03:29 PM (#4615302)
I'd offer that Manny Ramirez has contributed more to the human race

Manny Ramirez has contributed next to nothing to the human race as a whole. For a very brief interlude, he entertained and titillated a small slice of a small slice of the human race.

The difference between that and Google couldn't be more obvious.

   14. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: December 10, 2013 at 03:39 PM (#4615314)
Not whining about him, simply pointing out what I pointed out years ago, which is that he bargained away most players' right to pick their employer (*) in favor of mere money. It seemed interesting, in the near wake of the HOF vote, that two people on two different threads have complained about the wages and work conditions of pre-free agent major leaguers.(**)

Specifically, people have complained about the low wages of pre-free agent major leaguers, so your point is to say that without Marvin Miller, they would have lower wages.
   15. Jarrod HypnerotomachiaPoliphili(Teddy F. Ballgame) Posted: December 10, 2013 at 04:03 PM (#4615337)
Not whining about him, simply pointing out what I pointed out years ago, which is that he bargained away most players' right to pick their employer (*) in favor of mere money.


Didn't Miller offer to make every player a free agent every year? Not his fault the owners didn't go for it.
   16. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: December 10, 2013 at 04:04 PM (#4615339)
Specifically, people have complained about the low wages of pre-free agent major leaguers, so your point is to say that without Marvin Miller, they would have lower wages

I think the complaint about the 6 years of "team control" which Miller agreed to is worse than the relative freedom that soccer players, for example, have....even in their teens, and of course everyone else in America has throughout their careers. Baseball claims it's necessary to support the R&D that is their farm system, which doesn't exist in nearly the same magnitude in soccer.
Didn't Miller offer to make every player a free agent every year? Not his fault the owners didn't go for it.

Well it kinda is his responsibility what he pushed for and what players agreed to. Owners didn't go for what we have now either, until a number of work stoppages forced them to.
   17. KT's Pot Arb Posted: December 10, 2013 at 04:21 PM (#4615361)

Didn't Miller offer to make every player a free agent every year? Not his fault the owners didn't go for it.


I thought that was the idea of A's owner Charlie Finley, and Miller rejected it immediately fearing it would lead to too efficient a market and depress salaries?
   18. just plain joe Posted: December 10, 2013 at 04:24 PM (#4615367)
Didn't Miller offer to make every player a free agent every year? Not his fault the owners didn't go for it.


I could be wrong about this but I think that actually Miller was afraid that the owners would do this, and by doing so drive down the values of free agents because there would be a lot more of them. I do know that Charles Finley was in favor of this, which might be why baseball as a whole was not. I think the FA system that baseball ended up with was a compromise between what they had before, and everyone be a free agent every year.


EDIT: Coke to Pot Arb, who was quicker on the trigger.
   19. Walt Davis Posted: December 12, 2013 at 01:26 AM (#4616440)
Folks like to talk about "making players an FA every year" without noting that ...

a) there is absolutely nothing but free market forces stopping this from happening now;

b) there was no way to make that a rule then other than an essentially unacceptable mandate that all contracts are for no more than one year.

Miller wasn't scared of that offer, nobody in their right mind would accept that offer because it would bargain away the players' right to sign a multi-year contract. Why would you ever give that up?

Same goes with "guaranteed" contracts. The only part of contracts "guaranteed" by the CBA is that once you are on the 25-man after a certain date (and without options) then you get paid for the whole year.

Multi-year guaranteed contracts exist because teams, competing in an open market, have to offer them in order to obtain the services of the players they want. No team is forced to sign Vargas for 4/$32 and it's not clear there's anything stopping them from signing him for $1/8 with 3 team options (although it would certainly get looked at and possibly voided). The "problem" is that some other team is offering Vargas a better deal than 1/$8 with 3 team options.

I somewhat agree with SBB although I'm far less certain Miller could really have achieved a better system given how many stoppages it took to get this one. Also I think the bigger problem over the last few decades has been that the minimum salary isn't anywhere near as high as it should be (in a "fair" system).

And I do think some form of a contrived early career system is necessary for baseball. Football and basketball have it lucky in that colleges are more than happy to act as their farm system and deliver them "major league" ready players for essentially nothing. Baseball has little choice but to invest fairly heavily in players from ages 16 to 23 (give or take). Maybe if Organized Baseball had evolved differently in the early 20th century this wouldn't be the case but I don't see any way out of it now (or back in the late 60s).

The "alternative" is the old indy minor leagues scheme where teams specialize in developing young players then sell them off for profit. Vertical integration took care of that starting, what, 80 years ago and then the minors collapsed in the 50s. It doesn't seem a viable model today.

The alternate universe I'd be interested in seeing is where they organized all professional baseball players rather than just the ML ones. It's the minor-leaguers (at least the ones without 1st round bonuses) that are getting pretty well screwed.

Manny Ramirez has contributed next to nothing to the human race as a whole. For a very brief interlude, he entertained and titillated a small slice of a small slice of the human race.

The difference between that and Google couldn't be more obvious.


Why would you compare an individual (Manny) to a corporation employing tens of thousands?

Manny entertained a minuscule slice of humanity but was, to a great extent, fully responsible for the entertainment provided and is very difficult to replace. Google provides more value but any individual Google employee provides an even more minuscule slice of that value, is easily replaceable and wouldn't be missed by anybody on earth but family and a few friends.

Presumably the revenues generated by the corporation Google dwarf those produced by Manny in reasonable magnitude to the value each has supplied to humanity.

   20. Squash Posted: December 12, 2013 at 01:51 AM (#4616454)
Walt's massive posts are the only long posts I read.
   21. Infinite Joost (Voxter) Posted: December 12, 2013 at 02:00 AM (#4616456)
What a depressing thread.

Dunno what I expected.

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