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Monday, October 15, 2012

LCS Day 3: Cardinals at Giants

So, the Cardinals have won game one. Judging by the NLDS, this means the Giants are just biding their time, or something like that.

GAMES TODAY:
St. Louis Cardinals (Chris Carpenter) @ San Francisco Giants (Ryan Vogelsong). 8:00 PM, FOX.

Gamingboy Posted: October 15, 2012 at 12:53 AM | 463 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   1. salvomania Posted: October 15, 2012 at 10:54 AM (#4270856)
Giants pen in Game 1: Seventeen batters faced over 5-1/3 innings, zero hits, one walk, one reached on error.
   2. Bourbon Samurai Posted: October 15, 2012 at 11:21 AM (#4270882)
Is their something about this role that is working better for Lincecum? Does he get a start in this series?
   3. Anonymous Observer Posted: October 15, 2012 at 11:37 AM (#4270898)
Hopefully good Carp shows up tonight, and the Cardinals get to Vogelsong. The Cardinals' anal raping of the playoffs needs to continue!
   4. 6 - 4 - 3 Posted: October 15, 2012 at 11:50 AM (#4270907)
He's pitching completely out of the stretch, which seems to be working for him for some reason. During the regular season, there was a huge drop off in effectiveness when he would pitch with the bases empty (i.e., from the windup) versus with runners on base (i.e., from the stretch).

He could conceivably start Game 4. Or he could come in as a reliever following Zito. Going from lefty to righty early in the game can frustrate Matheny's attempt to maximize platoon advantage in the formation of his starting lineup.
   5. esseff Posted: October 15, 2012 at 11:56 AM (#4270915)
Given Bumgarner's past couple of starts, it's possible Zito and Lincecum both may be given starts, in Games 4 and 5 (if necessary).

During the regular season, there was a huge drop off in effectiveness when he would pitch with the bases empty (i.e., from the windup) versus with runners on base (i.e., from the stretch).


I believe this is backward, that he pitched more poorly from the stretch than the windup.


   6. GuyM Posted: October 15, 2012 at 12:07 PM (#4270923)
Or he could come in as a reliever following Zito. Going from lefty to righty early in the game can frustrate Matheny's attempt to maximize platoon advantage in the formation of his starting lineup.

That would work against some teams, but Matheny doesn't platoon. He starts the same 8 guys either way. He only has one decent bat on the bench (Carpenter), and that player isn't good enough to push Freese, Craig, Beltran or Holiday out of the lineup against a RHP.
   7. salvomania Posted: October 15, 2012 at 12:09 PM (#4270924)
Going from lefty to righty early in the game can frustrate Matheny's attempt to maximize platoon advantage in the formation of his starting lineup.


I don't think Matheny is going to change his starting lineup, regardless of the handedness of the pitcher.

The only person on that bench who could conceivably start a game is Matt Carpenter, and he's their best PH option as well as a great candidate for double-switching as he can play all four corners and 2b in a pinch.
   8. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: October 15, 2012 at 12:19 PM (#4270936)
I don't think Matheny is going to change his starting lineup, regardless of the handedness of the pitcher.

Matheny has amazed me. He seems really solid for a guy who hasn't managed since Little League. He's had no apparent clashes with players. I love that he has Beltran #2 instead of some middle IF. His only strategic mistake so far was bringing Rzepcynski in to pitch to Moore instead of either letting Boggs pitch to Tracy or bringing in Motte to pitch to Tracy but he seems to have learned from that.
   9. esseff Posted: October 15, 2012 at 12:22 PM (#4270942)
In fact, the Cardinal's roster construction for the postseason is a little dangerous. Matheny can't make a move for Kozma or Descalso because, basically, there are no reserve middle infielders. The one guy who could fake playing 2b -- but not very well -- is Schumaker, who has been the early innings pinch-hitter so far.
Carpenter and Craig have dabbled at second base, but aren't what you want there with the season on the line, and the backup SS is the guy starting at 2B.
   10. KJOK Posted: October 15, 2012 at 12:23 PM (#4270943)
The only person on that bench who could conceivably start a game is Matt Carpenter, and he's their best PH option as well as a great candidate for double-switching as he can play all four corners and 2b in a pinch.


Right - Ideally you might start Carpenter at 2B and Descalso at SS against a RH pitcher, and bring in Kozma late in the game for defense if you have the lead, but with Kozma 'hot' and Matheny not wanting to weaken the defense, it's not going to happen.
   11. salvomania Posted: October 15, 2012 at 12:45 PM (#4270985)
In fact, the Cardinal's roster construction for the postseason is a little dangerous.


Quite right---there really is not one true middle infielder on the Cardinal bench.

I hadn't really thought about this, and it is a little scary, but they could manage. If Kozma were to pull a Jeter after M. Carpenter had been used as a PH, Descalso could slide to SS, where he started 20 games this year, and Schumaker---who was, after all, the starting 2b for most of 2009-2011---could fill in there.
   12. boteman Posted: October 15, 2012 at 02:51 PM (#4271230)
I believe this is backward, that he pitched more poorly from the stretch than the windup.

That's it. Around late July-early August Lincecum still carried a precipitous dropoff from bases empty to pitching out of the stretch, and another smaller dropoff with RISP. Whatever he did to clean up his delivery in August and September must have worked wonders. Maybe he started eating at McDonald's again???

Although I wonder if Bochy has been burned and only brings him on in relief with bases empty?
   13. GuyM Posted: October 15, 2012 at 03:03 PM (#4271254)
Right - Ideally you might start Carpenter at 2B and Descalso at SS against a RH pitcher, and bring in Kozma late in the game for defense if you have the lead,

Interesting idea. Descalso is probably as good as or better than Kozma at SS. But does Carpenter really have the glove to start at 2B?
   14. tshipman Posted: October 15, 2012 at 03:11 PM (#4271265)
Is their something about this role that is working better for Lincecum? Does he get a start in this series?


Lincecum this year is a complete enigma. He still got K's, but he had terrible walk rates with runners on. He just lost the zone completely. He's not throwing any harder as a reliever than as a starter. I would think that the Giants give him the Game 4 start, but I have no real idea at this point.

I certainly would prefer to see him out there instead of Zito.
   15. cardsfanboy Posted: October 15, 2012 at 03:13 PM (#4271269)
Descalso isn't that much of a better hitter than Kozma, and it seems unlikely his defense is better, not sure why you would want to do that. There is already a better way to improve the offense by benching Descalso and putting Schumaker (Who is no longer a butcher in the field, his arm strength makes up for some of his fielding issues) at second. It would be a stronger defense than the proposed Carpenter/Descalso option and a stronger offense than the Kozma/Descalso option. Of course overall, those are about break even moves.
   16. GuyM Posted: October 15, 2012 at 03:49 PM (#4271344)
Descalso isn't that much of a better hitter than Kozma, and it seems unlikely his defense is better, not sure why you would want to do that.

Well, to get Carpenter's bat in the lineup of course. Plus, against a RHP specifically, I think Descalso would be a better hitter than Kozma.

I agree Schumaker is a better hitter than Descalso (though not lately!). But don't you think he gives away as much on defense (vs. Descalso) as you gain on offense? Certainly no one would think of putting Schumaker at SS, while Descalso seems adequate there.
   17. Steve Treder Posted: October 15, 2012 at 03:51 PM (#4271348)
Lincecum this year is a complete enigma. He still got K's, but he had terrible walk rates with runners on. He just lost the zone completely. He's not throwing any harder as a reliever than as a starter. I would think that the Giants give him the Game 4 start, but I have no real idea at this point.

I certainly would prefer to see him out there instead of Zito.


Entirely agreed. But given how rotten Bumgarner is pitching right now, I won't be surprised if we see both Lincecum and Zito starting, with Bumgarner shunted to the long reliever role.

The Giants' starting pitching, which should be their central strength, has been lousy for the entire post-season so far (and it wasn't exactly brilliant down the stretch). This doesn't bode well; the bullpen can't be expected to carry this kind of load the whole way.
   18. Tom Nawrocki Posted: October 15, 2012 at 03:56 PM (#4271355)
I haven't seen any interviews with him about it, but Linceucm doesn't seem to be put out at all to be in the bullpen. That's pretty heady stuff for a two-time Cy Young winner.

Then again, Zito seemed to take being left off the postseason roster in stride back in 2010. Bochy seems to do a really good job as a people-manager.
   19. Steve Treder Posted: October 15, 2012 at 04:00 PM (#4271357)
Bochy seems to do a really good job as a people-manager.

Absolutely.
   20. Gamingboy Posted: October 15, 2012 at 04:03 PM (#4271362)
CHECKLIST:
Conradian Play []
Web Gem [ ]
1-2-3-4-5-6 inning [ ]
Strike Out of Side [ ]
2+ pitching changes in single half-inning [ ]
Dramatic late-inning homer [ ]
Stolen base [ ]
Blown call [ ]
Blown call costs game [ ]
Caught stealing []
Idiot runs on the field [ ]
Regular-season starter warms up in bullpen [ ]
Game goes into extras [ ]
Shapeshifting strikezone [ ]
Replay review [ ]
Inning-Ending DP [ ]
Play at the plate [ ]
Baserunning blunder [ ]
Bunt [ ]
THIS TRAIN! [X]
Balk [ ]
Game Goes past midnight []
WILD BRIAN WILSON APPEARS [ ]
Cardinals crazy comeback retrospective [ ]
FREESE! [ ]
Pitcher gets a hit [ ]
Buster Posey does something awesome [ ]
Barry Bonds mentioned [ ]
FOX personality pointed out in crowd [ ]
NFL reference (beyond reference to NFL on FOX commercials) [ ]
Reference to McCarver's singing album [ ]
Mark McGwire mentioned by name [ ]
Willie Mays is in the crowd [ ]
Triples alley mentioned [ ]
Ball goes into McCovey cove [ ]
Pujols mentioned [ ]
"Catching Molina Brother" [ ]
FOX introduces us to a commercial that becomes a meme [ ]
Joe Buck and Tim McCarver spend extended amount of time talking about Jeter [ ]
"Torture" mentioned [ ]
Cardinals are behind at any point [ ]
Carlos Beltran does something awesome [ ]
Mention that Matheny hadn't managed anything above his son's little league team before this year []
Replay of Hunter Pence pumping everyone up [ ]
Game 6 2011 WS flashback [ ]
   21. cardsfanboy Posted: October 15, 2012 at 04:21 PM (#4271397)
I agree Schumaker is a better hitter than Descalso (though not lately!). But don't you think he gives away as much on defense (vs. Descalso) as you gain on offense? Certainly no one would think of putting Schumaker at SS, while Descalso seems adequate there.


Descalso is a borderline gold glove quality second baseman. Schumaker is a guy who on a good day, doesn't hurt you defensively. Descalso at short would be more or less equivalent to Schumaker at second base. Descalso tools is reaction time, and sure hands, not really range as much. Kozma is at worse an average defensive shortstop, but arguably a plus defensive shortstop.

As I said the three possible pairings listed end up with roughly the same overall value, (Kozma/Descalso is + defense and the absolute worse offense we could put out there; Kozma/Schumaker gives you a plus def ss and weak def second baseman for a slight improvement in offense; Descalso/Carpenter improves the offense at both positions, but weakens the overall defense, second base defense is probably the same as Schumaker) the current pairing that Matheny is going with is the best defense of the group(and defense along with running, is a skill with the least amount of variance from a player) and the two hot hitters. It's the safe decision right now, and to be honest the only obvious decision.

   22. cardsfanboy Posted: October 15, 2012 at 04:23 PM (#4271399)
I haven't seen any interviews with him about it, but Linceucm doesn't seem to be put out at all to be in the bullpen. That's pretty heady stuff for a two-time Cy Young winner.


According to McCarver (paraphrasing here) "Lincecum, unlike Arod, has taken to the bench role with positive attitude".
   23. cardsfanboy Posted: October 15, 2012 at 04:27 PM (#4271409)
GB. You should have something about the Jeff Leondard/Ozzie Smith era playoffs on there. It was mentioned last night when talking about Jeffrey Leonard winning the MVP even though he was on the losing side.
   24. jack the seal clubber (on the sidelines of life) Posted: October 15, 2012 at 04:36 PM (#4271422)
According to McCarver (paraphrasing here"Lincecum, unlike Arod, has taken to the bench role with positive attitude"


A little different for pitchers.

Not a big A-Rod fan but kicking him when he's down (when he seems to be handling it as well as he could) doesn't make me like Mc Carver any more.
   25. Gamingboy Posted: October 15, 2012 at 04:39 PM (#4271428)
GB. You should have something about the Jeff Leondard/Ozzie Smith era playoffs on there. It was mentioned last night when talking about Jeffrey Leonard winning the MVP even though he was on the losing side.


Okay, I'll add it in before gametime.
   26. Gamingboy Posted: October 15, 2012 at 07:29 PM (#4271592)
CHECKLIST:
Conradian Play []
Web Gem [ ]
1-2-3-4-5-6 inning [ ]
Strike Out of Side [ ]
2+ pitching changes in single half-inning [ ]
Dramatic late-inning homer [ ]
Stolen base [ ]
Blown call [ ]
Blown call costs game [ ]
Caught stealing []
Idiot runs on the field [ ]
Regular-season starter warms up in bullpen [ ]
Game goes into extras [ ]
Shapeshifting strikezone [ ]
Replay review [ ]
Inning-Ending DP [ ]
Play at the plate [ ]
Baserunning blunder [ ]
Bunt [ ]
THIS TRAIN! [X]
Balk [ ]
Game Goes past midnight []
WILD BRIAN WILSON APPEARS [ ]
Cardinals crazy comeback retrospective [ ]
FREESE! [ ]
Pitcher gets a hit [ ]
Buster Posey does something awesome [ ]
Barry Bonds mentioned [ ]
FOX personality pointed out in crowd [ ]
NFL reference (beyond reference to NFL on FOX commercials) [ ]
Reference to McCarver's singing album [ ]
Mark McGwire mentioned by name [ ]
Willie Mays is in the crowd [ ]
Triples alley mentioned [ ]
Ball goes into McCovey cove [ ]
Pujols mentioned [ ]
"Catching Molina Brother" [ ]
FOX introduces us to a commercial that becomes a meme [ ]
Joe Buck and Tim McCarver spend extended amount of time talking about Jeter [ ]
"Torture" mentioned [ ]
Cardinals are behind at any point [ ]
Carlos Beltran does something awesome [ ]
Mention that Matheny hadn't managed anything above his son's little league team before this year []
Replay of Hunter Pence pumping everyone up [ ]
Game 6 2011 WS flashback [ ]
Leonard/Ozzie Smith era Cardinals referenced [ ]
All the remaining managers were catchers [ ]
Mention that Tim McCarver was a catcher []
   27. cardsfanboy Posted: October 15, 2012 at 07:36 PM (#4271601)
nitpick.... Leonard/Ozzie Smith era is a Giant/Cardinal reference, not just a Cardinals reference.
   28. Gamingboy Posted: October 15, 2012 at 07:45 PM (#4271609)
nitpick.... Leonard/Ozzie Smith era is a Giant/Cardinal reference, not just a Cardinals reference.


Ah, sorry about that. I'll fix it next page.
   29. cardsfanboy Posted: October 15, 2012 at 07:46 PM (#4271610)
I just didn't want anyone thinking we were having a Cardinal specific check, recommended by a noted Cardinal fan.
   30. esseff Posted: October 15, 2012 at 07:47 PM (#4271614)
Bochy says he'll probably go with Lincecum in Game 4, then choose between Zito and Bumgarner for Game 5, if there is one. All subject to relief needs in the next two games. Link
   31. cardsfanboy Posted: October 15, 2012 at 07:49 PM (#4271617)
watching the pre game show and it's funny he's contrasting the pitchers and is showing the placement of the catchers glove and the actual location for the Beltran Homerun saying lack of execution....then he points to Lincecum and says Lincecum going inside makes them aware of the plate and then they show a pitch that was absolutely, 100% the definition of lack of execution. It worked because the mistake was in the area where failure to execute just result in a ball or hbp, but it wasn't like Lincecum had perfected his control during those early pitches.
   32. phredbird Posted: October 15, 2012 at 07:49 PM (#4271618)
The Cardinals' anal raping of the playoffs needs to continue!


comments like these are why everybody hates us!
   33. Gamingboy Posted: October 15, 2012 at 07:50 PM (#4271619)
comments like these are why everybody hates us!


At least you guys seem to like your team though....
   34. Gamingboy Posted: October 15, 2012 at 07:54 PM (#4271622)
Grateful Dead... and Tim Flannery....

That's... unusual.
   35. esseff Posted: October 15, 2012 at 07:58 PM (#4271625)

Grateful Dead... and Tim Flannery....

That's... unusual.


Is it?
   36. Gamingboy Posted: October 15, 2012 at 08:00 PM (#4271629)
Okay, maybe it isn't.
   37. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: October 15, 2012 at 08:00 PM (#4271630)
They showed the Hunter Pence pep speech in the pregame show.
   38. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: October 15, 2012 at 08:03 PM (#4271632)
God, Buck has some forehead.
   39. Gamingboy Posted: October 15, 2012 at 08:03 PM (#4271633)
They showed the Hunter Pence pep speech in the pregame show.


I usually keep it to game broadcast itself.
   40. Hey - you and Tommy Lasorda...I hate Tommy Lasorda Posted: October 15, 2012 at 08:07 PM (#4271637)
It is common to dump on Seilig for lots of stuff, and he deserves lots of it, but the Stand up to Cancer effort is one of the most important things attempted outside the lines of the game, and I believe it has been done well.

On to the game
   41. boteman Posted: October 15, 2012 at 08:08 PM (#4271640)
BREAKING: Sun Monster spotted in San Francisco. Get Bryce Harper on the phone, STAT!
   42. Gamingboy Posted: October 15, 2012 at 08:09 PM (#4271641)
Agreed on SU2C, 40, totally agreed.

Nice catch with the sun.
   43. Hey - you and Tommy Lasorda...I hate Tommy Lasorda Posted: October 15, 2012 at 08:10 PM (#4271642)
I should have suggested the Vogy retrospective
   44. Lassus Posted: October 15, 2012 at 08:11 PM (#4271643)
I don't care very much, but I do wonder how this game will draw against MNF.
   45. Eric J can SABER all he wants to Posted: October 15, 2012 at 08:11 PM (#4271644)
Beltran being at the plate (and the showing of the "most NL postseason homers" graphic) makes me wonder: How does one earn the designation "Future Hall of Famer?" Is there a petition we can sign to give this label to someone like Beltran? Would it help if we just start using it amongst ourselves?
   46. Gamingboy Posted: October 15, 2012 at 08:12 PM (#4271646)

I don't care very much, but I do wonder how this game will draw against MNF.


I don't know, but I'm sure tomorrow somebody will claim that a billion-dollar-plus industry that has the highest attendance of any sports organization in the world is "dying".
   47. cardsfanboy Posted: October 15, 2012 at 08:14 PM (#4271648)
Holliday is absolutely brutal on the basebpaths if you are a fielder.
   48. Hey - you and Tommy Lasorda...I hate Tommy Lasorda Posted: October 15, 2012 at 08:14 PM (#4271649)
The career retro just keeps on going
   49. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: October 15, 2012 at 08:15 PM (#4271650)
The take-out slide and catcher collisions are so stupid.
   50. Lassus Posted: October 15, 2012 at 08:15 PM (#4271651)
Yeah, someone needs to get a ball in the ribs for that, I'd say.
   51. Gamingboy Posted: October 15, 2012 at 08:15 PM (#4271652)
Love how they say that Orix and Chunichi is two cities. For those wondering, Orix splits time between Osaka and Kobe, while Chunichi is in Nagoya. Meaning technically he spent time in 3 cities.

Also, I could tell as soon as I saw that slide that Scutaro was going to be hurt.
   52. Into the Void Posted: October 15, 2012 at 08:15 PM (#4271653)
This is why we hate the Cardinals.
   53. Portia Stanke Posted: October 15, 2012 at 08:16 PM (#4271654)
Yeah, someone needs to get a ball in the ribs for that, I'd say.


I don't see that Scutaro did anything wrong there. Nice hustle from Holliday.
   54. cardsfanboy Posted: October 15, 2012 at 08:16 PM (#4271655)
Beltran being at the plate (and the showing of the "most NL postseason homers" graphic) makes me wonder: How does one earn the designation "Future Hall of Famer?" Is there a petition we can sign to give this label to someone like Beltran? Would it help if we just start using it amongst ourselves?


I imagine the path to earning the distinction of future hall of famer would be
1. Be very good at a young age, for a team that people watch
2. Be an actual hall of fame talent
3. spend your first 10 years with one team.
4. Have several hof lines (hof line is .300/30/100/100)or
4a. Multiple gold gloves with plus offense at a defense first position. (Centerfield is for some reason not considered a defense first position)
   55. cardsfanboy Posted: October 15, 2012 at 08:17 PM (#4271656)
This is why we hate the Cardinals.


But it was perfectly ok when he was on the Rockies or A's.

After looking at the replay, it wasn't nearly as agressive as I thought, He did start the slide before the bag.
   56. Hey - you and Tommy Lasorda...I hate Tommy Lasorda Posted: October 15, 2012 at 08:17 PM (#4271657)
He was out at 1b, and what about interference? The slide didn't start until after the bag.
   57. Howling John Shade Posted: October 15, 2012 at 08:17 PM (#4271658)
Baseball should take a page from soccer and eject players for slides like that.
   58. Lassus Posted: October 15, 2012 at 08:18 PM (#4271659)
Nice hustle from Holliday.

Indeed. He almost hit the bag.
   59. Portia Stanke Posted: October 15, 2012 at 08:19 PM (#4271661)
Indeed. He almost hit the bag.


Somewhere in the world, a game of doubles tennis is being televised for those folks who don't like baseball.
   60. Chip Posted: October 15, 2012 at 08:19 PM (#4271663)
That play couldn't have been any dirtier. He left his feet to dive OVER the bag at Scutaro's knee. It's.one thing to slide hard through the bag; this was entirely different. Never even attempted to make contact with the base.
   61. mjs Posted: October 15, 2012 at 08:21 PM (#4271666)
That play couldn't have been any dirtier. He left his feet to dive OVER the bag at Scutaro's knee. It's.one thing to slide hard through the bag; this was entirely different. Never even attempted to make contact with the base.


Well, he kinda hit the bag... to me, it's on the same level as trying to kill the catcher if he's between you and home plate.
   62. Guts Posted: October 15, 2012 at 08:21 PM (#4271668)
Holliday always slides like that.

Really Carp?
   63. Howling John Shade Posted: October 15, 2012 at 08:22 PM (#4271669)
Somewhere in the world, a game of doubles tennis is being televised for those folks who don't like baseball.


I'm sure you'll also applaud Vogelsong's hustle when he puts a ball in Holliday's ear-hole. Just as much a part of the game.
   64. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: October 15, 2012 at 08:22 PM (#4271670)
Somewhere in the world, a game of doubles tennis is being televised for those folks who don't like baseball.

...are we alleging that baseball is meant to be a contact sport? Just curious.
   65. Gamingboy Posted: October 15, 2012 at 08:22 PM (#4271671)
Boom, Pagan. That was deep. Couldn't tell with the Sun Monster where it went, though.

Cardinals behind at any point [X]
   66. Lassus Posted: October 15, 2012 at 08:22 PM (#4271672)
He did start the slide before the bag.

Ah, fascinating.


PAGAN!
   67. deputydrew Posted: October 15, 2012 at 08:22 PM (#4271673)
My wife, at first pitch: "I hope Angel Pagan has a good game."
   68. cardsfanboy Posted: October 15, 2012 at 08:22 PM (#4271674)
That play couldn't have been any dirtier. He left his feet to dive OVER the bag at Scutaro's knee. It's.one thing to slide hard through the bag; this was entirely different. Never even attempted to make contact with the base.


except the fact of him actually making contact with the bag. If you meant not actually attempting to stop on the bag, not sure that is required.
   69. Lassus Posted: October 15, 2012 at 08:23 PM (#4271676)
Somewhere in the world, a game of doubles tennis is being televised for those folks who don't like baseball.

GUFFAW.
   70. Eric J can SABER all he wants to Posted: October 15, 2012 at 08:23 PM (#4271677)
Somewhere in the world, a game of doubles tennis football is being televised for those folks who don't like baseball.

FTFY.
   71. Hey - you and Tommy Lasorda...I hate Tommy Lasorda Posted: October 15, 2012 at 08:23 PM (#4271678)
The rule says you have to be able to make contact to the bag as the runner, right? You should not be able to run past the bag, then start your slide just to do the takeout, what is the 2b supposed to do to protect himself? Does the ump have any latitude on an interference call there?

Oh and PAGAN!!!

And now Scut, the best revenge is playing well
   72. Portia Stanke Posted: October 15, 2012 at 08:24 PM (#4271680)

I'm sure you'll also applaud Vogelsong's hustle when he puts a ball in Holliday's ear-hole. Just as much a part of the game.


Yes, it is. Now you're starting to catch on.
   73. boteman Posted: October 15, 2012 at 08:26 PM (#4271682)
On KNBR radio, Mike Krukow is crowing about Holliday using unnecessary roughness in his take-out slide. And Duane Kuiper, not known for being a delicate flower, is saying how that was a borderline dirty slide. Of course, there could be homerism at play also.
   74. Chip Posted: October 15, 2012 at 08:26 PM (#4271683)
except the fact of him actually making contact with the bag. If you meant not actually attempting to stop on the bag, not sure that is required.


He appeared to accidentally make contact with the far side of the base. But that wasn't his intent, given that he didn't start his slide until he was over the bag.
   75. Lassus Posted: October 15, 2012 at 08:26 PM (#4271684)
Yes, it is. Now you're starting to catch on.

So you're admitting your weirdly shrill comment about me not liking baseball makes no sense, as I advocated reciprocation?
   76. Hey - you and Tommy Lasorda...I hate Tommy Lasorda Posted: October 15, 2012 at 08:27 PM (#4271685)
Darn, I am on the same side of the argument as McCarver
   77. esseff Posted: October 15, 2012 at 08:28 PM (#4271687)
Giants' fans might want to go to the 4-minute mark of this clip.

   78. Portia Stanke Posted: October 15, 2012 at 08:29 PM (#4271689)

So you're admitting your weirdly shrill comment about me not liking baseball makes no sense, as I advocated reciprocation?


No, you #######, I'm chiding you for your passive-agressive whining about the way the game has been played for the past century. The idea that a hard slide into second is worthy of touching off a beanball war is just another bit of idiocy.
   79. Lassus Posted: October 15, 2012 at 08:29 PM (#4271690)
Angel Pagan is such an awesome dude.


No, you #######, I'm chiding you for your passive-agressive whining about the way the game has been played for the past century. The idea that a hard slide into second is worthy of touching off a beanball war is just another bit of idiocy.

GUFFAW. (BTW, the ribs are in the torso.)
   80. cardsfanboy Posted: October 15, 2012 at 08:30 PM (#4271692)
The rule says you have to be able to make contact to the bag as the runner, right? You should not be able to run past the bag, then start your slide just to do the takeout, what is the 2b supposed to do to protect himself? Does the ump have any latitude on an interference call there?


1st I'm not saying I approve of the slide, but it's well within the rules.

he started the slide before the bag, so I don't see how what you are asking applies here.
   81. cardsfanboy Posted: October 15, 2012 at 08:31 PM (#4271693)
On KNBR radio, Mike Krukow is crowing about Holliday using unnecessary roughness in his take-out slide. And Duane Kuiper, not known for being a delicate flower, is saying how that was a borderline dirty slide. Of course, there could be homerism at play also.


It was absolutely a dirty slide. But it was also within the rules.
   82. Gamingboy Posted: October 15, 2012 at 08:33 PM (#4271694)
Given that they didn't show it, I'm going to guess that I'm right that the HR didn't get into the drink.
   83. cardsfanboy Posted: October 15, 2012 at 08:33 PM (#4271695)
77. esseff Posted: October 15, 2012 at 08:28 PM (#4271687)
Giants' fans might want to go to the 4-minute mark of this clip.


That is awesome, if Fox is any good at a broadcast they will find this clip and put it on TV.
   84. Chip Posted: October 15, 2012 at 08:33 PM (#4271696)
No, you #######, I'm chiding you for your passive-agressive whining about the way the game has been played for the past century. The idea that a hard slide into second is worthy of touching off a beanball war is just another bit of idiocy.


Apparently it's not just Giants fans who need to watch that video esseff posted.
   85. Guts Posted: October 15, 2012 at 08:33 PM (#4271697)
Ok, so Carp struggled in the first. He does this like, every game.

Now if he keeps struggling it's Shelbytime or something.
   86. Gamingboy Posted: October 15, 2012 at 08:35 PM (#4271699)
If there was a commercial where Pandas rapped about car insurance, that would be better than most WS ads.
   87. Portia Stanke Posted: October 15, 2012 at 08:36 PM (#4271700)
GUFFAW. (BTW, the ribs are in the torso.)


I'm sure that there are plenty of people who're willing to trade guffaws with you, troll. I'm not one of them. So long.

Nice job from Carpenter to get out of that one.
   88. Chip Posted: October 15, 2012 at 08:36 PM (#4271701)
he started the slide before the bag, so I don't see how what you are asking applies here.


No, he didn't. He didn't go down until he was over the bag. His first contact with the base was on the far side of the bag; he didn't actually make contact with the dirt on his slide until he was beyond the bag.
   89. deputydrew Posted: October 15, 2012 at 08:36 PM (#4271702)
My wife after the "The Mindy Project" commercial: "you baseball fans like to think there are so many nuances, but it's not that hard to explain. 'That guy throws the ball and the other guy hits it. Then he runs.'"

That said, she's one hell of a fan and is the reason I was at the 2010 NLCS clincher in Philly.
   90. The_Ex Posted: October 15, 2012 at 08:36 PM (#4271703)
As a fan of neither team I am in the borderline dirty slide camp.
   91. cardsfanboy Posted: October 15, 2012 at 08:37 PM (#4271704)
If there was a commercial where Pandas rapped about car insurance, that would be better than most WS ads.


C'mon, you mean to say that going to an alicia Keys concert doesn't automatically make you interesting?


What a horrendous camera angle for that out.
   92. Gamingboy Posted: October 15, 2012 at 08:37 PM (#4271705)
Pujols [X]
   93. Lassus Posted: October 15, 2012 at 08:37 PM (#4271706)
That is awesome, if Fox is any good at a broadcast they will find this clip and put it on TV.

There's a more accessible gif of that thing that was posted in yesterday's thread, but it starts after he finishes the slide, and is just lying there between the two Cardinals.
   94. Into the Void Posted: October 15, 2012 at 08:38 PM (#4271707)
C'mon, you mean to say that going to an alicia Keys concert doesn't automatically make you interesting?


More like the opposite...
   95. Howling John Shade Posted: October 15, 2012 at 08:39 PM (#4271709)
It was absolutely a dirty slide. But it was also within the rules.


What makes it really questionable to me is how high he jumped at the beginning of the slide. He was pretty much airborne as he was going over the bag. Going that high makes it much more likely that you're going to trap the fielder's leg under you (as Holliday did) instead of flipping them.
   96. cardsfanboy Posted: October 15, 2012 at 08:39 PM (#4271710)

No, he didn't. He didn't go down until he was over the bag. His first contact with the base was on the far side of the bag; he didn't actually make contact with the dirt on his slide until he was beyond the bag.

Don't have tivo so can't check again, on the three times I've seen the play, two of them it looked like he started before the bag.

I know that most people when watching cardinal games and actions by their player, create a fictional universe in which something different happened than in reality, so I'll wait for the fourth or fifth replay of the slide to see if my memory is accurate.
   97. Portia Stanke Posted: October 15, 2012 at 08:40 PM (#4271712)

Apparently it's not just Giants fans who need to watch that video esseff posted.


I don't think there are too many people who're going to defend Oquendo for slapping noted STL great Will Clark in the back of the head after a takeout slide.
   98. Lassus Posted: October 15, 2012 at 08:40 PM (#4271713)
More like the opposite...

I don't entirely disagree, but that woman has some truly serious pipes. Worthy of admiration.
   99. Eric J can SABER all he wants to Posted: October 15, 2012 at 08:41 PM (#4271714)
I imagine the path to earning the distinction of future hall of famer would be
1. Be very good at a young age, for a team that people watch
2. Be an actual hall of fame talent
3. spend your first 10 years with one team.
4. Have several hof lines (hof line is .300/30/100/100)or
4a. Multiple gold gloves with plus offense at a defense first position. (Centerfield is for some reason not considered a defense first position)


Beltran was a Rookie of the Year, has 7 separate seasons of 100 runs and 100 RBI, and 3 Gold Gloves. Plus an .824 postseason slugging percentage. I'm gonna start using it, at least for as long as I remember.
   100. Guts Posted: October 15, 2012 at 08:41 PM (#4271715)
What an AB by Kozma, outstanding eye.
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