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Monday, October 15, 2012

LCS Day 3: Cardinals at Giants

So, the Cardinals have won game one. Judging by the NLDS, this means the Giants are just biding their time, or something like that.

GAMES TODAY:
St. Louis Cardinals (Chris Carpenter) @ San Francisco Giants (Ryan Vogelsong). 8:00 PM, FOX.

Gamingboy Posted: October 15, 2012 at 12:53 AM | 463 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   201. Baldrick Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:33 PM (#4271833)
I do not get how pitchers can be so bad at bunting. These are professional athletes, most of whom were probably fantastic hitters up through college. Bunting is EASY.

Do they just not practice? Or are professional pitchers good enough that they can throw pitches that are deliberately difficult to bunt?
   202. cardsfanboy Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:34 PM (#4271834)
This is approximately the hugest moment of the series, possibly.


Not even remotely the case.
   203. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:34 PM (#4271835)
Don't understand why a sports rule should be based upon intent. If it's an illegal action, it's illegal regardless of the intent.

Handballs in soccer are (at least usually) ruled on intent, at least in a fashion. If your arm is at your side and the balls gets kicked into it, it's generally not going to be called a foul. If your arm is extended in the air and the ball hits it, it's probably going to be called a foul, even if you didn't "mean" to handball.
   204. salvomania Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:35 PM (#4271837)
Now Scutaro can honorably exact his revenge.
   205. salvomania Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:36 PM (#4271838)
Joe Kelly??!!??

How bout Shelby Freaking Miller!!!
   206. cardsfanboy Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:36 PM (#4271839)
Handballs in soccer are (at least usually) ruled on intent, at least in a fashion. If your arm is at your side and the balls gets kicked into it, it's generally not going to be called a foul. If your arm is extended in the air and the ball hits it, it's probably going to be called a foul, even if you didn't "mean" to handball.


But that isn't intent, that is separate penalties, even if the call it the same name. Intent would mean that if your hand was extended in the air and hits the ball, that if it was an accident the ref would have the option to not call it a foul.
   207. Guts Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:36 PM (#4271840)
Not even remotely the case.

Yeah, the Cards could lose this game 20-1 and I wouldn't care. The split, which was the goal, is already in hand.
   208. Guts Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:36 PM (#4271842)
How bout Shelby Freaking Miller!!!

Seconded. Especially now.
   209. boteman is not here 'til October Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:37 PM (#4271843)
Grass Monster must have attacked Holliday on that play.

The Timmeh loved it, too!
   210. salvomania Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:37 PM (#4271844)
Birds have their work cut out for them...
   211. Lassus Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:37 PM (#4271845)
BWAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HOLLIDAY YOU STUPID MEATHEAD.
   212. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:37 PM (#4271846)
guts

c'mon, post 207 is a fib. you would be griping and don't deny it

   213. Eric J can SABER all he wants to Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:37 PM (#4271847)
Well that was... hilarious.
   214. cardsfanboy Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:37 PM (#4271848)
There, that is Karma for you.
   215. Baldrick Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:37 PM (#4271849)
Take that Cardinals. Scutaro!!!
   216. Good cripple hitter Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:37 PM (#4271850)
I'm not really cheering for either team, but Scutaro cashing in three runs on a ball that bounces past Holliday's glove is pretty funny.
   217. Hey - you and Tommy Lasorda...I hate Tommy Lasorda Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:37 PM (#4271851)
There is your revenge
   218. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:37 PM (#4271852)
That couldn't have been better for Giant fans I imagine.
   219. PreservedFish Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:38 PM (#4271853)
Man, Marco Scutaro! I remember when he was a Ken Phelps type. The Mets picked him up and he came up and delivered a game winning hit or homerun in one of his frst games. The post headline was "Making his Marco."
   220. cardsfanboy Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:38 PM (#4271854)
Well that was... hilarious.


I was laughing. My gf just woke up and I had to explain to her why it was so funny.
   221. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:38 PM (#4271855)
Is there a Matt Holliday playoff error box for bingo?
   222. Lassus Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:38 PM (#4271856)
I love Marco Scutaro, especially after seeing "A Player to be Named Later" years and years ago.
   223. Baldrick Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:39 PM (#4271858)
There should be a 'delicious payback' box on the checklist.
   224. boteman is not here 'til October Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:39 PM (#4271859)
Is there a Matt Holliday playoff error box for bingo?

Every single post-season game in which he plays, no?
   225. Dr. Vaux Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:39 PM (#4271860)
Surely being 2-0 would be much better for the Cardinals and being 0-2 would be much worse for the Giants than being 1-1 is for either.

I'm amazed by how bad the Gians starting pitching has been in the post-season so far. Vogelsong has been the only effective starter.
   226. Eric J can SABER all he wants to Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:40 PM (#4271861)
Is there a Matt Holliday playoff error box for bingo?

No, the card already has one free space.
   227. salvomania Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:40 PM (#4271862)
Matheny better be pinch-hitting leading off the 5th
   228. Portia Stanke Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:40 PM (#4271863)
Time to start chipping away. And apparently Herzog does radio and tv ads for every business in St. Louis.
   229. cardsfanboy Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:40 PM (#4271864)
From a friend on facebook.

Chris Carpenter's 5 hits in past 2 postseasons are as many as A-Rod has in 27 fewer ABs
   230. Voros McCracken of Pinkus Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:40 PM (#4271865)
But that isn't intent, that is separate penalties, even if the call it the same name. Intent would mean that if your hand was extended in the air and hits the ball, that if it was an accident the ref would have the option to not call it a foul.

He does actually have that option. The rule as it's written involves "deliberate" handling of the ball. Either touching it with any part of the arm on purpose, or positioning your arm such that the only reason to have it there is to touch the ball (IE putting your arms straight out as a means of blocking shots).
   231. Honkie Kong Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:41 PM (#4271866)
Ahh, the reverse jinxing works now! What happened to that power in the wild card game?

And wasn't saying Carpenter is on the same level as Roger as a pitcher. More to the attribute of obviously not liking someone just for their screen presence, while having to acknowledge their superior skills.
Opinions may vary, but I always found Clemens a bit douchey. Not like I know the guy, just what I see on the screen and what quotes I read.

   232. cardsfanboy Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:41 PM (#4271867)
Surely being 2-0 would be much better for the Cardinals and being 0-2 would be much worse for the Giants than being 1-1 is for either.


Yes that is true, but the goal was to hopefully take one out of 2 on the road, anything more than that is a bonus.
   233. boteman is not here 'til October Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:42 PM (#4271868)
Jon Miller back on the radio on KNBR.
   234. cardsfanboy Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:42 PM (#4271869)
He does actually have that option. The rule as it's written involves "deliberate" handling of the ball. Either touching it with any part of the arm on purpose, or positioning your arm such that the only reason to have it there is to touch the ball (IE putting your arms straight out as a means of blocking shots).


Then again, that is a rule I wouldn't like. It should not be left to an official to determine intent.
   235. Guts Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:42 PM (#4271871)
c'mon, post 207 is a fib. you would be griping and don't deny it

I mean, I'm not HAPPY about this, exactly, but it's not crushing my soul in the same way, say, Gm 4 against the Nats did.
   236. Eric J can SABER all he wants to Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:43 PM (#4271872)
I'm amazed by how bad the Gians starting pitching has been in the post-season so far. Vogelsong has been the only effective starter.

Put this on the "it's OK, Orioles fans, Nate McLouth is due up next" list of incredibly bizarre statements that have been made this October.
   237. Dr. Vaux Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:43 PM (#4271873)
In truth, I don't think the Cardinals have to worry much, because the other Giants starters really can't get anybody out.
   238. Honkie Kong Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:44 PM (#4271875)
Put this on the "it's OK, Orioles fans, Nate McLouth is due up next" list of incredibly bizarre statements that have been made this October.


Now pinch hitting for Alex Rodriguez, Eric Chavez.
   239. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:44 PM (#4271876)
Intent would mean that if your hand was extended in the air and hits the ball, that if it was an accident the ref would have the option to not call it a foul.

Well, there are a lot of situations where it's vague and it's really up to the ref's discretion. This incident happened recently and most people did not think it should have been called a handball, as although the defender's arm was extended it was not in reaction to the shot and there was just no way for him to be able to move. However, the ref awarded the penalty.
   240. Voros McCracken of Pinkus Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:45 PM (#4271878)
Then again, that is a rule I wouldn't like. It should not be left to an official to determine intent.

The problem is without the rule, it would be easily abused by attackers purposefully kicking the ball into defender's arms and in the box that would mean a penalty and most likely a goal.
   241. Chip Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:45 PM (#4271879)
McCarver pointing out that Scutaro is limping noticeably.
   242. cardsfanboy Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:45 PM (#4271880)
Future hofer Beltran with another double.
   243. boteman is not here 'til October Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:46 PM (#4271881)
I guess Beltran does care after all.
   244. Chip Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:46 PM (#4271883)
Nice route, Pence.
   245. Eric J can SABER all he wants to Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:46 PM (#4271884)
Now pinch hitting for Alex Rodriguez, Eric Chavez.

You really have to get Cano and Teixeira here, because Raul Ibanez is up next.

Future Hall of Famer Beltran strikes again!
   246. Guts Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:47 PM (#4271885)
That Beltran, padding his stats in blowouts.
   247. cardsfanboy Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:47 PM (#4271886)
In truth, I don't think the Cardinals have to worry much, because the other Giants starters really can't get anybody out.


Those are the pitchers that worry the Cardinals the most. Bud Norris would be a perennial Cy Young candidate if he had to face the Cardinals 30 times a year.
   248. boteman is not here 'til October Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:48 PM (#4271887)
That fat kid pointing to the fences a la The Babe looks like a mini Pablo Sandoval.
   249. Voros McCracken of Pinkus Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:48 PM (#4271888)
{deleted}
   250. Fred Lynn Nolan Ryan Sweeney Agonistes Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:48 PM (#4271889)
I love Marco Scutaro, especially after seeing "A Player to be Named Later" years and years ago.

This was the first baseball game I ever went to with Amazing GF.
I'll always, always, love him for that one.
   251. Guts Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:49 PM (#4271890)
Bud Norris would be a perennial Cy Young candidate the greatest pitcher of all time if he had to face the Cardinals 30 times a year.
   252. Hey - you and Tommy Lasorda...I hate Tommy Lasorda Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:51 PM (#4271892)
That fat kid pointing to the fences a la The Babe looks like a mini Pablo Sandoval.


Mini Pablo Sandoval - that's funny
   253. PreservedFish Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:52 PM (#4271893)
Have the "Marco" "Scutaro" "Marco" "Scutaro" chants (like the game Marco Polo) followed him beyond Oakland?
   254. base ball chick Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:52 PM (#4271894)
BAD day for holliday
that crappy borerline dirty slide
not hitting
not fielding
carp must be really screaming (although he's the one who kept throwing balls down the middle)
   255. cardsfanboy Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:52 PM (#4271895)
Thanks to these extreme close ups, I can conclude positively that Buster Posey hasn't had his 15th birthday yet.
   256. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:52 PM (#4271896)
norris career era against st. louis is 2.74

that's pretty good
   257. Hey - you and Tommy Lasorda...I hate Tommy Lasorda Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:52 PM (#4271897)
Future Hall of Famer Posey finally gets an average this series
   258. Guts Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:53 PM (#4271899)
I think "Failing to mention that Melky actually won the batting title over Posey [ ]" should be on the checklist for the remainder of the Giants' games.
   259. Portia Stanke Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:53 PM (#4271900)
Bud Norris would be a perennial Cy Young candidate the greatest pitcher of all time if he had to face the Cardinals 30 times a year.


Kirk
Rueter
   260. phredbird Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:54 PM (#4271901)
well, think of all those seasons of 100+ wins, hi 90s wins and no cigar. this is getting even


oh, that got hand-waved away in several threads, lisa. it doesn't count for the card haters.
   261. PreservedFish Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:54 PM (#4271902)
Those are the pitchers that worry the Cardinals the most.


Every single baseball team believes that they are unusually susceptible to bad/rookie starters.
   262. Good cripple hitter Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:54 PM (#4271903)
Have the "Marco" "Scutaro" "Marco" "Scutaro" chants (like the game Marco Polo) followed him beyond Oakland?


They were popular when Scutaro was a Blue Jay.
   263. Gamingboy Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:54 PM (#4271904)
I was gone for a bit after the double, what'd I miss?
CHECKLIST:
Conradian Play []
Web Gem [ ]
1-2-3-4-5-6 inning [ ]
Strike Out of Side [ ]
2+ pitching changes in single half-inning [ ]
Dramatic late-inning homer [ ]
Stolen base [ ]
Blown call [ ] (one questionable fair-foul)
Blown call costs game [ ]
Caught stealing []
Idiot runs on the field [ ]
Regular-season starter warms up in bullpen [ ]
Game goes into extras [ ]
Shapeshifting strikezone [ ]
Replay review [ ]
Inning-Ending DP [ ]
Play at the plate [ ]
Baserunning blunder [ ]
Bunt [ ]
THIS TRAIN! [X]
Balk [ ]
Game Goes past midnight []
WILD BRIAN WILSON APPEARS [X ]
Cardinals crazy comeback retrospective [ ]
FREESE! [ ]
Pitcher gets a hit [X ]
Buster Posey does something awesome [ ]
Barry Bonds mentioned [ ]
FOX personality pointed out in crowd [ ]
NFL reference (beyond reference to NFL on FOX commercials) [ X]
Reference to McCarver's singing album [ ]
Mark McGwire mentioned by name [ ]
Willie Mays is in the crowd [ ]
Triples alley mentioned [ ]
Ball goes into McCovey cove [ ]
Pujols mentioned [ X]
"Catching Molina Brother" [ ]
FOX introduces us to a commercial that becomes a meme [ ]
Joe Buck and Tim McCarver spend extended amount of time talking about Jeter [ ]
"Torture" mentioned [ ]
Cardinals are behind at any point [ X]
Carlos Beltran does something awesome [ ]
Mention that Matheny hadn't managed anything above his son's little league team before this year []
Replay of Hunter Pence pumping everyone up [ X]
Game 6 2011 WS flashback [ ]
Leonard/Ozzie Smith era Giants/Cardinals referenced [ ]
All the remaining managers were catchers [ ]
Mention that Tim McCarver was a catcher []
   264. Hey - you and Tommy Lasorda...I hate Tommy Lasorda Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:54 PM (#4271905)
See!!!! - future Hall of Famer Posey slid the right way
   265. Eric J can SABER all he wants to Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:55 PM (#4271907)
Every single baseball team believes that they are unusually susceptible to bad/rookie starters.

Yeah, but the Cubs actually are!

Or maybe it's an artifact of bad major league pitchers still being major league pitchers.
   266. Dr. Vaux Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:56 PM (#4271908)
I think if the Braves had ever gotten even, people would be more okay with the Cardinals getting even.
   267. Eric J can SABER all he wants to Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:56 PM (#4271909)
Ball goes into McCovey cove [ ]

If it's foul, can this still be checked off?
   268. Guts Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:56 PM (#4271910)
Every single baseball team believes that they are unusually susceptible to bad/rookie starters.

We can provided two concrete, verifiable bad pitchers who crushed the Cards repeatedly over several years.
   269. Gamingboy Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:56 PM (#4271911)
Ball goes into McCovey cove [ ]

If it's foul, can this still be checked off?


Was more thinking homers, or, in theory, unusually bouncy ground rule doubles in case somebody slips a superball in there.
   270. phredbird Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:57 PM (#4271912)
oh, fudge. this game is no fun, and i'm avoiding work.
   271. Eric J can SABER all he wants to Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:58 PM (#4271913)
Barry Bonds mentioned [ ]

Speaking of the Cove, Bonds was mentioned as having 36 of the 62 splash hits.

Edit: Vogelsong bunted; is that category limited to non-pitchers?
   272. Fred Lynn Nolan Ryan Sweeney Agonistes Posted: October 15, 2012 at 09:58 PM (#4271914)
Every single baseball team believes that they are unusually susceptible to bad/rookie starters.

The A's proved... um... something related to this, this year.
   273. PreservedFish Posted: October 15, 2012 at 10:00 PM (#4271918)
I used to post on a Mets board all the time, and it was common knowledge that the Mets sucked against rookie pitchers. But I later realized that fans of other teams believed the exact same thing. I think it's a memory trick - you assume that you should beat the shitty pitchers, so when you don't it really sticks in your craw.
   274. salvomania Posted: October 15, 2012 at 10:01 PM (#4271919)
Nice play by Kozma!! That will loom large when the Birds go ahead by 1 later on.
   275. Portia Stanke Posted: October 15, 2012 at 10:01 PM (#4271921)
More warlock magic.
   276. Gamingboy Posted: October 15, 2012 at 10:02 PM (#4271922)
Bonds [X]
Bunt (didn't specify here, and since in the past I had "position player bunts" as sep. category I guess it means everyone) [X]

Got it.
   277. boteman is not here 'til October Posted: October 15, 2012 at 10:03 PM (#4271923)
@Ken_Rosenthal: Scutaro out, Theriot in for #SFGiants.
   278. cardsfanboy Posted: October 15, 2012 at 10:04 PM (#4271925)
I used to post on a Mets board all the time, and it was common knowledge that the Mets sucked against rookie pitchers. But I later realized that fans of other teams believed the exact same thing. I think it's a memory trick - you assume that you should beat the shitty pitchers, so when you don't it really sticks in your craw.


It is. I've been saying that for a while, but still those are the pitchers that worry you as a fan, getting beat by good pitchers happens to everyone, getting beat by a poor pitcher is evidence that your team has flaws.
   279. Hey - you and Tommy Lasorda...I hate Tommy Lasorda Posted: October 15, 2012 at 10:04 PM (#4271926)
The Riot
   280. Guts Posted: October 15, 2012 at 10:04 PM (#4271927)
Scutaro must have broken multiple bones, there's no way the Riot could be an upgrade otherwise.
   281. Eric J can SABER all he wants to Posted: October 15, 2012 at 10:04 PM (#4271928)
@Ken_Rosenthal: Scutaro out, Theriot in for #SFGiants.

Well, there'll be a new most-booed Cardinal for the rest of the series now.
   282. salvomania Posted: October 15, 2012 at 10:05 PM (#4271929)
God, was that just last year that Theriot was a Cardinal?
   283. Guts Posted: October 15, 2012 at 10:05 PM (#4271931)
The best kind of HBP.
   284. cardsfanboy Posted: October 15, 2012 at 10:05 PM (#4271932)
Uggh. I know that there is nothing to do about it, but I hate the hbp that is actually a hbshirt.
   285. Portia Stanke Posted: October 15, 2012 at 10:05 PM (#4271933)
God, was that just last year that Theriot was a Cardinal?


It was what it was.
   286. The Artist Posted: October 15, 2012 at 10:05 PM (#4271934)
Scutaro got hurt because Holliday is a #########. I'd buzz him.
   287. Hey - you and Tommy Lasorda...I hate Tommy Lasorda Posted: October 15, 2012 at 10:06 PM (#4271935)
BTW, does the hot chick do any actual reporting or are we just going to get, "The trainers are looking at him"
   288. Guts Posted: October 15, 2012 at 10:06 PM (#4271936)
God, was that just last year that Theriot was a Cardinal?

I am impressed by your ability to suppress ugly memories.
   289. salvomania Posted: October 15, 2012 at 10:06 PM (#4271937)
It was what it was.


That was classic.
   290. Eric J can SABER all he wants to Posted: October 15, 2012 at 10:07 PM (#4271938)
Uggh. I know that there is nothing to do about it, but I hate the hbp that is actually a hbshirt.

Hit by shirt?

Given the unwritten rules of baseball, I assume Theriot is lucky to still have his legs attached after forcing a Cardinal at second.
   291. boteman is not here 'til October Posted: October 15, 2012 at 10:07 PM (#4271940)
It's Scutaro's abdominal muscles.
   292. Guts Posted: October 15, 2012 at 10:07 PM (#4271941)
Given the unwritten rules of baseball, I assume Theriot is lucky to still have his legs attached after forcing a Cardinal at second.

You're not supposed to do favors for the other team.
   293. cardsfanboy Posted: October 15, 2012 at 10:08 PM (#4271942)
Scutaro got hurt because Holliday is a #########. I'd buzz him.


I'm sure it's precautionary measures, not a real injury, I mean he was so hurt that he was able to play the field for several innings and hit a bases clearing double.
   294. Portia Stanke Posted: October 15, 2012 at 10:08 PM (#4271943)

That was classic.


What a magnificent horse's ass you have to be to say something like that. At least he ripped the Phillies a new one in the NLDS, though.
   295. Gamingboy Posted: October 15, 2012 at 10:08 PM (#4271944)
, I mean he was so hurt that he was able to play the field for several innings and hit a bases clearing double.


And then, satisfied with his vengeance, he rested.
   296. cardsfanboy Posted: October 15, 2012 at 10:09 PM (#4271945)
Hit by shirt?


I was going with a quickie.... I hate that you can wear a loose shirt and get credited with a hbp, Brewers were the worse in baseball about doing that, but there are too many players that do that, that it disgusts me whenever it happens.
   297. The Artist Posted: October 15, 2012 at 10:10 PM (#4271946)

I'm sure it's precautionary measures, not a real injury, I mean he was so hurt that he was able to play the field for several innings and hit a bases clearing double.
'

Man, I'm glad to see Pravda is still around here when it comes to the Cards.
   298. Eric J can SABER all he wants to Posted: October 15, 2012 at 10:10 PM (#4271947)
Upon further reflection, I'm actually very much on board with calling the sort of HBP that put Craig on a "hit by shirt." It sufficiently captures the unimposing nature of the event.
   299. cardsfanboy Posted: October 15, 2012 at 10:11 PM (#4271949)
Man, I'm glad to see Pravda is still around here when it comes to the Cards.


What is pravda?
   300. Honkie Kong Posted: October 15, 2012 at 10:12 PM (#4271951)
What a magnificent horse's ass you have to be to say something like that. At least he ripped the Phillies a new one in the NLDS, though.


What is the context here?
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