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Tuesday, October 16, 2012

LCS Round Chatter Day 4: Yankees at Tigers

Game 3: Will the Tigers take command, or will the Yankees’ bats finally wake up?

New York Yankees (Hughes) @ Detroit Tigers (Verlander), 8 PM, TBS
Tigers lead 2-0

Gamingboy Posted: October 16, 2012 at 12:40 AM | 555 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   501. Moe Greene Posted: October 16, 2012 at 11:36 PM (#4273588)
Should've brought in Rodriguez...
   502. RMc's desperate, often sordid world Posted: October 16, 2012 at 11:36 PM (#4273589)
#### me!
   503. puck Posted: October 16, 2012 at 11:36 PM (#4273590)
I thought the retort was "So's your mom." Not "So's your mother."

He's so respectful.

Hey, Ibanez is out!
   504. DKDC Posted: October 16, 2012 at 11:37 PM (#4273591)
Sweet.

The Yankees can't be saved by their bald-headed false idol.
   505. GregD Posted: October 16, 2012 at 11:37 PM (#4273592)
Wow!
   506. Moe Greene Posted: October 16, 2012 at 11:37 PM (#4273593)
Someone tell Vaux to turn the TV back on.
   507. Bourbon Samurai in Asia Posted: October 16, 2012 at 11:37 PM (#4273594)
I thought the retort was "So's your mom." Not "So's your mother."


so does your dad.
   508. Chip Posted: October 16, 2012 at 11:37 PM (#4273595)
Coke came inside on the first 3-2. I thought Ibañez was sitting on that?

Smoltz is right. Gutsy slider to close him out, which was set up by that inside fastball that Ibañez could only weakly foul off.
   509. Baldrick Posted: October 16, 2012 at 11:37 PM (#4273596)
Not using A-Rod in the 8th or 9th is just absurd.
   510. Moe Greene Posted: October 16, 2012 at 11:37 PM (#4273597)
Whiffey is not your savior!

Raul is not your bald-headed false idol!
   511. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: October 16, 2012 at 11:37 PM (#4273598)
See, anyone can close
   512. Every Inge Counts Posted: October 16, 2012 at 11:37 PM (#4273599)
Someone tell Vaux to turn the TV back on.


Doesn't matter, he is already knows the Tigers are going to lose the next 4 games anyway.
   513. Gamingboy Posted: October 16, 2012 at 11:38 PM (#4273600)
FINAL CHECKLIST OF NIGHT:
Conradian Play []
Web Gem [X]
Stolen Base [X]
Caught Stealing [ ]
1-2-3-4-5-6 [X ]
Strikeout of side [ ] (a 1-2-3 inning strikeout of side [])
Play at the plate [ ]
Replay review [ ]
Baserunning blunder [ ]
Blown call [ ] (Blown call costs game [ ])
THIS TRAIN! [X]
2+ pitching changes in single half-inning [ ]
Dramatic late-inning homer [ ]
Idiot runs on the field [ ]
Regular-season starter warms up in bullpen [ ]
Game goes into extras [ ]
Shapeshifting strikezone [ ]
Inning-Ending DP [ ]
Bunt [X ]
Balk [ ]
They show the Ty Cobb statue in Detroit [ X]
A-Rod strikes out [ ]
A-Rod is PH for or is a PH [ ]
Raul Ibanez is a effing clutch god [ ]
Verlander hits 100 or more after 80+ pitches [ ]
Reference to presidential debate [ ]
Miguel Cabrera does something awesome [ X]
Trout mentioned (player or fish) [ ]
Valverde shows up [ ] (Valverde blows lead [ ])
Girardi seen looking at binder/iPad/whatever [ ]
Prince Fielder goes deep [ ]
Verlander no-hitter flashback(s) [ ]
"Is Miguel Cabrera MVP?" [ ]
Sabathia sitting in dugout [X ]
Verbal Reference to how Ford Field is so close to Comerica [ ]
Discussion of the Holliday-Scutaro slide [ ]
Derek Jeter sighted in ballpark [ ] (Mention that Jeter is actually from Michigan [ ])
DET HOFer* references: Kaline [ ] Harwell [ ] Greenberg [X ] Cobb (other than statue) [ ] Wahoo Sam [ ] H. Jennings [] M. Cochrane [ ] C. Gehringer [ ] Kell [ ] Newhouser [ ] Manush [ ] Heilmann [ ]
Mark "The Bird" Fidrych mentioned [X ]
Cecil Fielder mentioned [ ]
Ichiro does something awesome [ ] (unless you count getting a hit of Verlander awesome, which, come to think of it, I'll come back to this one)
John Smoltz is from Michigan [ ]
John Smoltz was traded by Detroit [ ]
Doyle Alexander mentioned by name [ ]
A-Rod gets a hit [ ]
   514. VoodooR Posted: October 16, 2012 at 11:38 PM (#4273601)
At least we got some late-inning drama. This series hasn't totally ruined the great postseason we've had so far.
   515. DKDC Posted: October 16, 2012 at 11:38 PM (#4273602)
Wow he missed that by a mile (that was ball 4, by the way, Lassus).

The Yankees are so done.

   516. RollingWave Posted: October 16, 2012 at 11:38 PM (#4273603)
How very fitting that the ex-Yankee basically ends their season.
   517. boteman is not here 'til October Posted: October 16, 2012 at 11:39 PM (#4273604)
EVERYBODY QUIET!! SAGER IS ON TV NOW!!!!
   518. Dr. Vaux Posted: October 16, 2012 at 11:39 PM (#4273605)
It feels like both teams are losing the series, yet one leads 3-0. It's the most pitiful 3-0 I've ever seen.
   519. Moe Greene Posted: October 16, 2012 at 11:40 PM (#4273606)
Vaux, you didn't really turn off the TV, did you?
   520. Every Inge Counts Posted: October 16, 2012 at 11:40 PM (#4273608)
3-0 is 3-0. I rather it be pitiful than be down 0-3.
   521. SteveF Posted: October 16, 2012 at 11:41 PM (#4273609)
Yankee fans should think of this as an opportunity to erase the memory of 2004.
   522. Dr. Vaux Posted: October 16, 2012 at 11:42 PM (#4273610)
Yes, I turned it off. I really didn't want to see Ibanez give the Yankees the lead, and I had no doubt it would happen. Ah, well.
   523. fra paolo Posted: October 16, 2012 at 11:42 PM (#4273611)
The octopus only has five tentacles now.
   524. Moe Greene Posted: October 16, 2012 at 11:42 PM (#4273612)
I sense that we Primates are an overly pessimistic lot.
   525. Dr. Vaux Posted: October 16, 2012 at 11:42 PM (#4273613)
3-0 is 3-0. I rather it be pitiful than be down 0-3.


This is certainly true.
   526. JE (Jason) Posted: October 16, 2012 at 11:42 PM (#4273614)
Yeah, so will any reporter ask Joe why A-Rod wasn't brought in to face Coke? Was he certain that Leyland would counter with ...?
   527. Tim D Posted: October 16, 2012 at 11:43 PM (#4273615)
Waiting for Vaux to say the Tigers will drop the next four......

Nice job Phil. Valverde's new job, third back up bullpen catcher.
   528. Every Inge Counts Posted: October 16, 2012 at 11:43 PM (#4273616)
Scherzer got this tomorrow as well.
   529. boteman is not here 'til October Posted: October 16, 2012 at 11:44 PM (#4273617)
I sense that we Primates are an overly pessimistic lot.

If you'd crawl out of mommy's basement full of computers and calculators and go see an actual game sometimes you might improve your outlook.

:-) in case that wasn't clear.
   530. Moe Greene Posted: October 16, 2012 at 11:44 PM (#4273619)
If you'd crawl out of mommy's basement full of computers and calculators and go see an actual game sometimes you might improve your outlook.

So's your mom.

(And yes, it was clear. I recognize we Primates are also a sarcastic lot!)
   531. fra paolo Posted: October 16, 2012 at 11:46 PM (#4273622)
I sense that we Primates are an overly pessimistic lot.

I'm not. The Tigers have good starters, and a lineup that looks solid on paper, but against good teams they really have to depend on scoring five runs to feel confident of winning, if they are going to hand the ball over to Benoit and Valverde to close out the game. Two runs was never enough, especially with 10 LOB. So many missed chances.
   532. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: October 16, 2012 at 11:52 PM (#4273626)
Maybe the yankees should try scoring before the ninth.
   533. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: October 16, 2012 at 11:59 PM (#4273630)
Girardi needs to be shitcanned the second the season ends.
   534. Fat Al Posted: October 17, 2012 at 12:01 AM (#4273634)
Girardi needs to be shitcanned the second the season ends.


This is insane. If you told anyone a week ago that Girardi would have Ibanez in there against a lefty with the game on the line and ARod and Swisher available, people would have looked at you like you have 3 heads.
   535. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: October 17, 2012 at 12:03 AM (#4273638)
He let Gardner hit against coke with arod on the.bench....what a joke.
   536. Jorge Luis Bourjos (Walewander) Posted: October 17, 2012 at 12:06 AM (#4273639)

PHIL COKE AND DELMON YOUNG PEOPLE

LAST CHANCE TO GET YOUR SEATS ABOARD THIS JUGGERNAUT
   537. Jorge Luis Bourjos (Walewander) Posted: October 17, 2012 at 12:07 AM (#4273640)
if they are going to hand the ball over to Benoit and Valverde to close out the game. Two runs was never enough, especially with 10 LOB.

Except they didn't, and it was.
   538. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: October 17, 2012 at 12:12 AM (#4273647)
This is insane. If you told anyone a week ago that Girardi would have Ibanez in there against a lefty with the game on the line and ARod and Swisher available, people would have looked at you like you have 3 heads.


Not using A-Rod I can understand since Benoit would have come in, but yeah, not sure what excuse there is for not PH Swisher there. Worse by far, IMO, is that he constantly goes with crappy relievers in high leverage situations just because it's not the 8th or 9th inning.
   539. Howie Menckel Posted: October 17, 2012 at 12:13 AM (#4273648)

not at all a Yankees fan, but will offer props for being scrappy against a HOF-level pitcher (so far) and a bad spot overall.

as Art Howe would say after another Mets loss, "We battled."

   540. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: October 17, 2012 at 12:26 AM (#4273659)
J still give thr Yankees Bout a 20% chance of getting this back to new york.
   541. Sleepy supports unauthorized rambling Posted: October 17, 2012 at 01:09 AM (#4273687)
So the strike zone plot is up at brookesbaseball.net. Verlander had almost twice as many called strikes, out of the zone, (10) than he had, inside the zone (6).

I'd be amazed if this has ever happened before. Hell, has anyone ever thrown 8.1 innings, with only six called strikes that were thrown over the plate? In his favor, he had one, maybe two, called balls that should have been strikes. So let's call it 8 postseason innings, one called strike per inning, or less.
   542. Howie Menckel Posted: October 17, 2012 at 01:14 AM (#4273691)

I take it you are not a longtime Braves fan and are relatively new to this sport.

   543. Sleepy supports unauthorized rambling Posted: October 17, 2012 at 01:23 AM (#4273696)
I take it you are not a longtime Braves fan and are relatively new to this sport.


Lol. Yeah, the umps may have been worse in the past, but that doens't make it OK, now.

Anyway, cynically, I'm pretty sure Matt Holliday won't get a hit against Verlander, since he's been dealing with that strike zone all year. It's not a point against Holliday; if you swing at that pitch, at best, you foul it off. These umps need to be disciplined, and we finally have the tools to do it. Let's do it.

I hate the yankees, but this game was a travesty.
   544. base ball chick Posted: October 17, 2012 at 01:32 AM (#4273700)
this is the 3rd straight game that verlander was given all KINDS of called strikes that were out of the zone.

i'm the LAST person (non redsox fan persuasion) that you could call a yankee fan but this stuff is not OK and i say it is time for the robot ump strike zone machine.

the rule book strike zone. every batter, every pitcher, lefty, righty.
   545. Voros McCracken of Pinkus Posted: October 17, 2012 at 01:38 AM (#4273705)
So the strike zone plot is up at brookesbaseball.net. Verlander had almost twice as many called strikes, out of the zone, (10) than he had, inside the zone (6).

The power of confirmation bias. They think Verlander is great so they make him so. He struggled (by his standards) with his command all night actually, and got bailed out with the strike zone.

He isn't the first star pitcher to get this treatment and he won't be the last.
   546. Sleepy supports unauthorized rambling Posted: October 17, 2012 at 01:45 AM (#4273709)
Yeah, but it's getting worse.

10/6, vs OAK, 8 out-of-zone called strikes vs 13 IZ
10/11, vs OAK, 6 out of zone called strikes vs 12 IZ
10/16, vs NYY, 10 out of zone called strikes vs 6 IZ

Every one of those is ridiculous, but this last one is embarrassing for MLB. I mean, an argument could maybe be made for the incompetent "human element" if they get it right 2/3 of the time, but 6 times out of 16? Seriously?

FWIW, batters have hit 0.000 against Verlander on pitches out of the zone, this post-season. This is fun?
   547. Voros McCracken of Pinkus Posted: October 17, 2012 at 01:47 AM (#4273711)
Oh I've been calling for the robot strike zone for about four years now. No one seems to listen or care compared to wanting to review everything else via video replay (which I'm against).
   548. Dr. Vaux Posted: October 17, 2012 at 01:51 AM (#4273714)
The last thing baseball needs is fewer called strikes.
   549. Voros McCracken of Pinkus Posted: October 17, 2012 at 01:57 AM (#4273717)
The last thing baseball needs is fewer called strikes.

Wouldn't necessarily be the outcome.

But in any event, it really doesn't need a different strike zone for different pitchers.
   550. Sleepy supports unauthorized rambling Posted: October 17, 2012 at 01:58 AM (#4273718)
The last thing baseball needs is fewer called strikes.


Maybe that was true in 2003.

Right now they need to define a strike zone, call pitches that are thrown within that zone a strike, and let the players play the game. Not make #### up as they go.

As a fan of Baseball, and of neither of the teams that played tonight, I feel cheated. But I'm a Cardinals fan, so I guess you should call me a whiner or something.
   551. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: October 17, 2012 at 07:40 AM (#4273745)
Every one of those is ridiculous, but this last one is embarrassing for MLB. I mean, an argument could maybe be made for the incompetent "human element" if they get it right 2/3 of the time, but 6 times out of 16? Seriously?


It's not 6 out of 16. It's 6 out of however many pitches were in the strike zone. It may be a simple issue of the Yankees swinging aggressively at pitches in the zone.

If they go to robot umps the offensive levels in baseball will make 1998 look like 1968.

Also, there is an assumption of accuracy on the "K zone" type things that I do not share.
   552. just plain joe Posted: October 17, 2012 at 08:50 AM (#4273762)
as Art Howe would say after another Mets loss, "We battled."


Ah, just like the French Army in June, 1940; or, maybe not so much.
   553. ASmitty Posted: October 17, 2012 at 09:02 AM (#4273770)
Pitcher who throws really hard and has tons of movement on his pitches does not get the strike zone called perfectly, film at 11.

In any case, I think the TBS zone has been wonky all postseason, at least to my eyes. In game one of the ALCS it was in love with Fister's breaking ball but neither I nor the home plate umpire shared its enthusiasm. It also seems stingy on the corners. Like most K zones it has been generous with high strikes, but the home plate umps have seemed quite generous with that pitch as well.
   554. spycake Posted: October 17, 2012 at 11:57 AM (#4273966)
10/6, vs OAK, 8 out-of-zone called strikes vs 13 IZ
10/11, vs OAK, 6 out of zone called strikes vs 12 IZ
10/16, vs NYY, 10 out of zone called strikes vs 6 IZ

Every one of those is ridiculous, but this last one is embarrassing for MLB. I mean, an argument could maybe be made for the incompetent "human element" if they get it right 2/3 of the time, but 6 times out of 16? Seriously?


Interesting thesis, but I think you need more data/context. What's normal? How many total pitches were in the zone? Yankees were fouling off a ton last night and had a lot of BIP outs too.
   555. The Chronicles of Reddick Posted: October 17, 2012 at 12:58 PM (#4274074)
I have to say that reading the live chat the day after is always amusing. Especially after how everyone was asking to bring in Arod even though he has been shitty the whole playoff series to pinch hit for someone who has hit some of the most clutch HR's in recent post-season memory.
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