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Wednesday, October 11, 2006

Lidle dies as plane crashes into Manhattan high-rise

This is only baseball news because CNN and SI’s Tom Verducci are reporting that the plane is registered to former Yankee player Cory Lidle.

Regardless, this is not good news.

UPDATE: The link is now ESPN’s more sports-centric story… from that article

A small plane piloted by New York Yankees pitcher Cory Lidle crashed into a 50-story condominium tower Wednesday on Manhattan’s Upper East Side, killing at least four people, authorities said.

Lidle died in the crash.

The twin-engine plane came through a hazy, cloudy sky and hit the 20th floor of The Belaire—a red-brick tower overlooking the East River, about five miles from the World Trade Center—with a loud bang, touching off a raging fire that cast a pillar of black smoke over the city and sent flames shooting from four windows on two adjoining floors.


The plane left New Jersey’s Teterboro Airport, just across the Hudson River from the city, at 2:30 p.m., about 15 minutes before the crash, according to officials at the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which operates the airport. But they said they did not where the aircraft was headed.

Sean McNally Posted: October 11, 2006 at 08:46 PM | 409 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: yankees

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   201. AndrewJ Posted: October 11, 2006 at 11:15 PM (#2207491)
The Yankees released Aaron Boone the offseason after his '03 playoff HR when he got injured in a pickup basketball game; his contract called for him to play no pickup games. I wonder if GMs will demand no-piloting clauses for players who've expressed interest in owning planes...

Ah, jeez, they're saying on ESPN that Lidle's family hasn't even been informed yet, because they're on a commercial flight and can't be contacted.

I wonder how many of her passengers already found out about her husband's death via cellphone/e-mails before she did.
   202. My guest will be Jermaine Allensworth Posted: October 11, 2006 at 11:15 PM (#2207492)
Inge (Detroit) just actually had those dreaded words tumble out of his mouth... "He died doing what he loved most".

I was thinking more about the media, since they're paid to be careful with words.
   203. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: October 11, 2006 at 11:17 PM (#2207494)
You can never say a cruel word to or about anyone because they may someday die.

May?
   204. Padgett Posted: October 11, 2006 at 11:18 PM (#2207496)
Eyewitness Pilots: He was weaving in and out of buildings in Manhattan, against rules established... he was allowed to "skirt" the island by flying up and down the rivers, but was NOT allowed within the city.

If true, that's pretty crazy. Do you have a source for that?
   205. Spahn Insane Posted: October 11, 2006 at 11:18 PM (#2207497)
Lidle was an awesome force to watch for much of 2001, and was positively unhittable in August, 2002: 45+ IP, 1 ER, 8 BB, 3 XBH, 0.20 ERA.

Yeah, I remember that, only because I had him on my fantasy team for much of '02, dropped him after he stunk it up for months, then he immediately was lights out for the rest of the season. Ah well.
   206. haven Posted: October 11, 2006 at 11:19 PM (#2207498)
Sad story in a general sense. Whether one of the people on the plane was a baseball player or not......

Now for something that really should be on a different thread....

Joe Bivens, Irate Consumer Posted: October 11, 2006 at 06:35 PM (#2207425)

Anyway, guild, union, whatever you want to call it, it represents labor vs management. And to the public at large, they're perceived as a union, rightly or wrongly. Union members, like myself, are going to back labor 100% of the time in these situations.


I would guess you are not from Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh is a union town. I would guess 99% of the population has never support the baseball players. Or think of their guild as a union. So to say that 100% of labor would support the players is disengenous at best IMO.
   207. Spahn Insane Posted: October 11, 2006 at 11:22 PM (#2207499)
Ah, jeez, they're saying on ESPN that Lidle's family hasn't even been informed yet, because they're on a commercial flight and can't be contacted.

Well, that's lovely. Obviously, the scoop is far more important than the family's feelings. I can just picture them finding out by seeing their kid's face plastered all over the TV monitors while they're walking to the baggage claim.
   208. Misirlou has S.C.M.O.D.S Posted: October 11, 2006 at 11:22 PM (#2207500)
Eyewitness Pilots: He was weaving in and out of buildings in Manhattan, against rules established... he was allowed to "skirt" the island by flying up and down the rivers, but was NOT allowed within the city.

If true, that's pretty crazy. Do you have a source for that?


I agree. It's monumentally stupid. It isn't that hard to find out who was violating no fly zones, and in a case like this, I imagine the punishment would be more than a simple revocation of license.
   209. Gamingboy Posted: October 11, 2006 at 11:23 PM (#2207501)
God, when I heard this story I wanted to throw up. People have been making such a big deal out of A-Rod and Torre and all that other crap. Really puts things in perspective.
   210. The Bones McCoy of THT Posted: October 11, 2006 at 11:23 PM (#2207502)
Check out the Google ads on the page.

Best Regards

John
   211. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: October 11, 2006 at 11:23 PM (#2207503)
one engine going out could cause it to go more to one direction i think, at least depending on how they are placed and the size of the plane. however from looking at the engine they can establish if it was still spinning when it hit the building, and if it wasnt what caused it to go out
   212. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: October 11, 2006 at 11:24 PM (#2207504)
I'd like to hear Larry Bowa and Bobby Abreu's thoughts.

Bowa seemed pretty shaken up over it on ESPN.
   213. Guapo Posted: October 11, 2006 at 11:25 PM (#2207505)
Yeah, I remember that, only because I had him on my fantasy team for much of '02, dropped him after he stunk it up for months, then he immediately was lights out for the rest of the season. Ah well.

That's a touching memory. Thanks for sharing.
   214. Spahn Insane Posted: October 11, 2006 at 11:27 PM (#2207507)
That's a touching memory. Thanks for sharing.

Oh, jesus, lighten up.
   215. eerbeek Posted: October 11, 2006 at 11:27 PM (#2207508)
I was thinking more about the media, since they're paid to be careful with words.

Sorry. It just still seems trite coming out of ANYONE'S mouth, even if it IS true.

I can't imagine how his wife can't know yet! I am MOST certain that her pilot could have been contacted and she be informed immediately so that when the plane lands at its destination, she could make appropriate arrangements for an immediate return to NY.

At this point, I see her forgetting to turn her cell phone back on right away, going on with her plans, and hearing the news on the car radio or something equally horrific. I hope she isn't traveling alone... a companion would be the best thing in the world for her right now if for nothing else than to think clearly about logistics, child care, or whatever obstacles she now faces.

I can NOT be convinced that with his celebrity and people knowing exactly where she is that she has not yet been informed.
   216. AndrewJ Posted: October 11, 2006 at 11:28 PM (#2207509)
People have been making such a big deal out of A-Rod and Torre and all that other crap. Really puts things in perspective.

A man of my acquaintance whose grade-school age son was killed a car accident once said, "The only real 'matters of life and death' are life and death."
   217. Guapo Posted: October 11, 2006 at 11:29 PM (#2207510)
Oh, jesus, lighten up.

It was tongue in cheek. And that's Mr. Christ to you, buddy.
   218. Los Angeles Waterloo of Black Hawk Posted: October 11, 2006 at 11:29 PM (#2207511)
Obviously, the scoop is far more important than the family's feelings. I can just picture them finding out by seeing their kid's face plastered all over the TV monitors while they're walking to the baggage claim.

I would hope, if this news of the family not yet being informed is true, that there will be someone to meet them in the terminal when the plane lands. Though I would imagine that his wife will have several missed calls on her cell phone once she turns it on.

I had always thought it was policy to not release names of the deceased in situations like this until the family had been informed.
   219. Cabbage Posted: October 11, 2006 at 11:30 PM (#2207513)

This is strange. If a problem is serious enough to report to ATC, you turn around and land. If is not serious enough to warrant landing immediately, you don't bother them.


yeah, that jumped out at me too.

Damn. I just wrote a big long post after reading that it was a twin, but now its reported as an SR-20, so that throws my Vmc spin theory out the window. The SR-20 on wiki (someone already update the site to include this latest tragedy)

Miserlou:
Looks (at least at this point) like one of those regretably common but preventable accident-chain/workload accidents. Just like you were saying about reading the checklist and flying into a mountain.
(mildly related flight instructing note: I had a student try to land in the middle of a munitions depot on a simulated engine out)
   220. My guest will be Jermaine Allensworth Posted: October 11, 2006 at 11:31 PM (#2207514)
Obviously, the scoop is far more important than the family's feelings.

C'mon. A plane crashed into a New York City building.

It's the police who are supposed to withhold the identity, not the media. The police did their jobs, the media did theirs -- providing information to the public -- to find out who it was.
   221. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: October 11, 2006 at 11:32 PM (#2207515)
never mind it wa sa single engine turbo prop. he could have lost his control capabilities....i.e. losing control of rudder and flaps
   222. Spahn Insane Posted: October 11, 2006 at 11:32 PM (#2207516)
It was tongue in cheek. And that's Mr. Christ to you, buddy.

My bad. Are we so formal on this board I can't call you JC?
   223. Spahn Insane Posted: October 11, 2006 at 11:34 PM (#2207517)
C'mon. A plane crashed into a New York City building.

I'm not suggesting the fact of the crash shouldn't have been reported right away. I have an issue with how the identity of the victims (well, one of 'em) was handled.
   224. eerbeek Posted: October 11, 2006 at 11:37 PM (#2207519)
If true, that's pretty crazy. Do you have a source for that?

I don't understand what you mean by "crazy" (the weaving or the report I heard about the rules he was to be flying under?), but it was reported that way on NBC Nightly News (or was it the local news?). Either way, NBC.

Again, I would think ditching in a river is FAR preferable than into buildings or concrete. KNOWING there is trouble, why was he even NEAR buildings? Is steering completely disabled with engine failure?
   225. The Original SJ Posted: October 11, 2006 at 11:40 PM (#2207520)
Either way, NBC.

This is not what NBC national news reported. NBC national had a computer animation up, and it showed him circling the Statue of Liberty, and then making 1 sharp turn directly in the building.
   226. Padgett Posted: October 11, 2006 at 11:42 PM (#2207522)
I don't understand what you mean by "crazy" (the weaving or the report I heard about the rules he was to be flying under?), but it was reported that way on NBC Nightly News (or was it the local news?). Either way, NBC.

I wasn't doubting what you were saying; I was stunned by the idea of a plane playing slaloming along York Avenue.
   227. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: October 11, 2006 at 11:43 PM (#2207523)
So to say that 100% of labor would support the players is disengenous at best IMO.

Not disingenuous. Just wrong, maybe. If union members living in Pittsburgh didn't support the MLBPA during the strike (and I'll take your word for it), that's a sad commentary on the state of labor in Pittsburgh.
   228. Misirlou has S.C.M.O.D.S Posted: October 11, 2006 at 11:47 PM (#2207527)
Is steering completely disabled with engine failure?


No.
   229. eerbeek Posted: October 11, 2006 at 11:50 PM (#2207529)
Must have been the local news... they put up a graphic of the area and explained how he could fly up and down the rivers, but NOT within the city. If you want to do that, I guess you have to file a flight plan, which he did not do. You also have to be at a certain altitude, blah blah blah.

Yeah, I heard eyewitness accounts of one sharp turn as well. But then heard conflicting accounts from other pilots in the area, not people observing from the ground and only at the very last seconds of the flight.

Thanks for not doubting me personally, but we have to be careful... in the early stages of the "news", it was one conflicting report after another.
   230. My guest will be Jermaine Allensworth Posted: October 11, 2006 at 11:50 PM (#2207530)
I'm not suggesting the fact of the crash shouldn't have been reported right away. I have an issue with how the identity of the victims (well, one of 'em) was handled.

I'm aware of that. Let's bypass the fact that he's a public figure for now, for which different rules apply (both in general and legal terms).

The media didn't go to any disturbing lengths to figure out who he was. They didn't spoil evidence or the crime scene or break police tape -- they found the plane identification number. They reported who it belonged to, which is important when a plane crashes into a high-rise building in New York City.

It's the police's job to withhold information, not the media's, and in most cases it works out that the relatives know before the media because the police have control over the entire scene before anybody arrives.

That's not to say the media prints/says anything it gets, because reporters are people, too. But in cases where the scene is very, VERY public and the central person involved is, too, the media has to get information out.
   231. The Original SJ Posted: October 11, 2006 at 11:54 PM (#2207531)
My only point was that it wasn't what NBC National News reported.
   232. RMc is a fine piece of cheese Posted: October 11, 2006 at 11:55 PM (#2207534)
Random thoughts in my brain:
"Geez, he'd be in Oakland right now if my team headn't beaten his team."
"His middle name was Fulton?"
"Now Thurman Munson has somoeone to play catch with."

RIP
   233. haven Posted: October 11, 2006 at 11:57 PM (#2207536)
Joe Bivens, Irate Consumer Posted: October 11, 2006 at 07:43 PM (#2207523)

If union members living in Pittsburgh didn't support the MLBPA during the strike (and I'll take your word for it), that's a sad commentary on the state of labor in Pittsburgh.


You know, I now honestly think that you are a sanctimonious blowhard. And part of everything that is wrong with the labor movement. And I mean that as an insult.
   234. eerbeek Posted: October 11, 2006 at 11:58 PM (#2207538)
Pre-game Tigers vs. A's on right now (FOX). Mood is pretty light and jovial, but I missed a couple of minutes at the beginning if they mentioned the tragedy then.
   235. The Original SJ Posted: October 12, 2006 at 12:01 AM (#2207540)
FOX national broadcast is on now, Byrnes in on, and he looks like he is about to break down and he has not said a word
   236. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: October 12, 2006 at 12:04 AM (#2207542)
RIP Cory. What a horrible loss, I'll keep his loved ones in my thoughts and prayers. Just awful.
   237. Danny Posted: October 12, 2006 at 12:04 AM (#2207543)
Unbelievable. The fact that one of the victims was a baseball player I've never met shouldn't make it more sad, but for some reason it does. RIP.
   238. eerbeek Posted: October 12, 2006 at 12:12 AM (#2207545)
My only point was that it wasn't what NBC National News reported.

I completely understand... no offense taken! I just had the local NBC on followed by the National coverage and wasn't sure which broadcast reported what I was relaying.

They just interviewed some players for tonite's game. Yup... appropriately covering it with reverence and all the "right" words. Interesting... a couple of guys are mentioning his twin and playing with him... I'm not a twin and don't pretend to fully understand the bond, but I understand that losing a twin (especially tragically) is like second only to losing a child.

"Geez, he'd be in Oakland right now if my team headn't beaten his team."


I'm from Detroit and this thought never even occured to me. I have absolutely no feelings of guilt that our team obliterated his team. Nor do I feel he'd be in Oakland right now if the Yankees advanced. Seems if we had to take it to 7 games instead of 4, he'd be either in NY or Detroit or maybe EN ROUTE to Oakland, but I have no idea how all that is scheduled. Seems they get a few days off between series, but if they play to 7 games, maybe that rest is decreased.

Either way... I'm a firm believer that when it's your time to go, it's your time to go. I believe in the Master Plan and that nothing would have changed the circumstances.
   239. Randomly Fluctuating Defensive Metric Posted: October 12, 2006 at 12:15 AM (#2207548)
This is really sad. I don't know if it was his mannerisms or whatever, but he never really "looked" like a Major League pitcher when he was on the mound. He just looked like a regular dude who happened to be grinding his way through another outing. There was something real admirable about that. Keep the other nameless victim of this accident in your thoughts and prayers as well. Really, they are just entertainers on a stage, testing each other's limits. So something like this puts Baseball in perspective, but not in a bad way really, in a positive one.

So R.I.P. Cory.
   240. haven Posted: October 12, 2006 at 12:15 AM (#2207549)
Unbelievable. The fact that one of the victims was a baseball player I've never met shouldn't make it more sad, but for some reason it does. RIP.

"More sad" is a relative concept that is tough for me to grasp. I am sad in any case. I do think a baseball player being involved makes the event "more real" for me in some sense because Lidle was someone that I has some knowledge of, albeit not a truly personal knowledge.
   241. Jose Molina wants a nickname like "A-Rod" Posted: October 12, 2006 at 12:16 AM (#2207551)
"They were a good 6 miles from Brooklyn. They could have turned toward Long Island City, I suppose."

Not even my plane going down could convince me to turn toward Long Island City.
   242. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: October 12, 2006 at 12:22 AM (#2207558)
"More sad" is a relative concept that is tough for me to grasp. I am sad in any case. I do think a baseball player being involved makes the event "more real" for me in some sense because Lidle was someone that I has some knowledge of, albeit not a truly personal knowledge.

Bingo, haven. When I hear tragic news about someone that I don't know, I feel bad but it's not the same as when you "know" the person.

Not even my plane going down could convince me to turn toward Long Island City.

My maternal grandmother was born there, so that's a plus in my book for LIC. :-)
   243. eerbeek Posted: October 12, 2006 at 12:25 AM (#2207566)
That's the thing with "celebrity"... we all kind of feel like we "know" them in some way or another.

Therefore, while we can see the same crash with "unknowns" on board, we will feel sad for the victims (I cried my eyes out on 9/11 and knew NO ONE involved), but when we feel like we "know" them a little, it hits a little harder.

I also think we forget the fragility of ALL people. Being a ball player doesn't make a man immune to tragedy, although sometimes we will forget that.

He was just a guy like any other guy with all the same risks in life (maybe even a few more).

A guy who obviously made a few grave mistakes today, the first being not to abort the flight when he called ATC with the problem only a minute after take off.
   244. Los Angeles Waterloo of Black Hawk Posted: October 12, 2006 at 12:29 AM (#2207572)
And I mean that as an insult.

Wow, are you going to be sad when he dies.
   245. MM1f Posted: October 12, 2006 at 12:30 AM (#2207576)
" I'm no good Samaritan. My instinct (I kid you not) would be to call 911 before trying to anything that I am not trained to do. I'm careful that way"

A lady in Tennessee almost killed a guy by trying a Hollywood snake bite cure on him
   246. MM1f Posted: October 12, 2006 at 12:37 AM (#2207593)
""His middle name was Fulton?""

Robert Fulton was one of his ancestors
   247. Squash Posted: October 12, 2006 at 12:37 AM (#2207594)
RIP, Cory. I always liked you.
   248. Infinite Joost (Voxter) Posted: October 12, 2006 at 12:45 AM (#2207611)
Super perfundo, Cory Lidle. I'll never confuse you with Ted Lilly again.
   249. The Non-Catching Molina (sjs1959) Posted: October 12, 2006 at 12:51 AM (#2207628)
   250. Boots Day Posted: October 12, 2006 at 12:51 AM (#2207629)
I find it interesting that the lecture on decorum was introduced into this thread by someone who uses a personal insult for his handle -- an insult, moreover, directed at something that the target of the insult has absolutely no control over.
   251. phredbird Posted: October 12, 2006 at 01:03 AM (#2207653)
darn, boots. i'm having trouble following the thread -- it's been a long day -- who are you referring to?
   252. The Wilpons Must Go (Tom D) Posted: October 12, 2006 at 01:05 AM (#2207655)
I returned from Shea about a half hour ago. What a gloomy, strange, sad evening.

I had Lidle on my roto team several times. I always liked the K/W ratios. He was a member of the 1997 Mets, which was a special team for me since they had their first winning season that year since 1990.
   253. Spahn Insane Posted: October 12, 2006 at 01:07 AM (#2207666)
Super perfundo, Cory Lidle. I'll never confuse you with Ted Lilly again.

See, *that's* what makes this so weird for me, aside from Cory Lidle being a major league baseball who I had some familiarity with. Voxter was having a crazy game chatter discussion of him just, what--3 days ago? I don't even get into game chatters that much anymore, so that adds to the creepiness.
   254. The Wilpons Must Go (Tom D) Posted: October 12, 2006 at 01:08 AM (#2207667)
I returned from Shea about a half hour ago. What a gloomy, strange, sad evening. I had Lidle on my roto team several times. I always liked the K/W ratios. He was a member of the 1997 Mets, which was a special team for me since they had thier first winning season since 1990.
   255. Boots Day Posted: October 12, 2006 at 01:16 AM (#2207686)
phredbird, it's "David Samson Has Major Altitude Problems." Maybe it's because I'm 5'7, but I've never found it very funny to make fun of someone's height.
   256. Boots Day Posted: October 12, 2006 at 01:17 AM (#2207687)
phredbird, it's "David Samson Has Major Altitude Problems." Maybe it's because I'm 5'7, but I've never found it very funny to make fun of someone's height.
   257. My guest will be Jermaine Allensworth Posted: October 12, 2006 at 01:18 AM (#2207694)
I never have any kind of clue what Craig Monroe is going to do.
   258. My guest will be Jermaine Allensworth Posted: October 12, 2006 at 01:19 AM (#2207699)
Sorry for the Chatter post.
   259. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: October 12, 2006 at 01:21 AM (#2207705)
He should have flown his plane into ESPN headquarters
   260. Old Matt Posted: October 12, 2006 at 01:22 AM (#2207716)
Wow. Read this story from February.

Wow, that came from my hometown paper, The Intelligencer. I know the columnist (a lot of players aren't too fond of him), but I don't recall this specific column.

Real spooky.
   261. sasquatch83 Posted: October 12, 2006 at 01:26 AM (#2207733)
I don't expect the announcers (Brennaman, Lyons and Pinella) to be dwelling on tragedy, but I haven't heard a word from them about Lidle. Did I miss something? I know they talked about it in the pre-game, and I feel bad for Eric Byrnes, but . . . I dunno, I just figured I would hear something from the in-game announcers.
   262. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: October 12, 2006 at 01:27 AM (#2207734)
WNBC-TV was streaming, and they said that this make and model of plane (Cirrus SR-20) had been in 20 fatal crashes over the last five years; however, in almost all of them, the NTSB found that PILOT ERROR was the cause of the crash.

What, the cockpit has a built-in beer cooler?
   263. 'zop sympathizes with the wrong ####### people Posted: October 12, 2006 at 01:31 AM (#2207740)
The Wright Thompson article on ESPN.com says that Lidle's parents unfortunately heard the news from the TV, and that a priest was sent to meet his wife and son's flight at LAX.

It also includes this sentance:

"He found Lidle's parents struggling to accept the loss of their son, a young man who loved flying his new airplane and playing poker."

That has to be an intentional allusion to the Arthur Rhodes comment, right?
   264. Swoboda is freedom Posted: October 12, 2006 at 01:49 AM (#2207774)
"Now Thurman Munson has somoeone to play catch with."

I can imagine it now. Thurman yelling at him for not bearing down and not getting his curve over.
   265. eerbeek Posted: October 12, 2006 at 02:01 AM (#2207804)
It is absolutely SHAMEFUL that his parents saw it on TV. Couldn't SOMEONE have had the decency to make sure they were politely and quietly informed BEFORE broadcasting it all over the place? ESPECIALLY when the initial reports were so fraught with inaccuracies and contradictions! I don't CARE if the media had a "job" to do and that the police should have kept the names confidential. The MEDIA should have made sure the parents knew before the rest of the world did.

I am, however, glad that a priest was sent to the arriving flight at LAX. But how grim would the walk down the jetway be when you see your priest is waiting for you at the other end?

Any explanation as to why wife and son went to LAX without him?
   266. Darren Posted: October 12, 2006 at 02:04 AM (#2207807)
C-Wok,

It took me a long time to learn this, so I'll pass it on to you: not everything is funny.
   267. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: October 12, 2006 at 02:13 AM (#2207825)
I mean, c'mon, the coverage was like "oMG THE TERRORISTS ARE BACK!" to "Corey Lidle flew into a building".

Detectives believe snakes were involved.
   268. eerbeek Posted: October 12, 2006 at 02:23 AM (#2207848)
BTW: In my opinion, the announcers aren't obligated, nor should they feel a need to further discuss the tragedy.

Media addressed it in pre-game and now they have game-game. They have a very specific duty to bring the game to life for those listening, to address statistics, remember other championship teams of the two clubs playing, etc. Alot of people paid alot of money to be entertained not only by the players but by the announcers.

Further, there is a mindset that the game goes on, with or without Lidle. The players are already in a sad state. Should the announcers continue to bring that sadness right to the surface while they are trying to earn their multi-million dollar salaries? There will be plenty of time for eulogizing and remembering Lidle. There is a time and a place for everything. But to continually bring it to the surface when people are trying to enjoy themselves serves no purpose.

I am NOT making light of this awful event. However, I am of the firm opinion that it will be covered in extraordinary ways in the days to come. They addressed it at the top of the broadcast and that is adequate for the time being. Let the boys do their jobs, let the fans enjoy the game, and let the announcers announce the play by play action.

Now, if Lidle was a current member of the A's or Tigers, I would fully expect the game to be post-poned. Lidle's season ended on Saturday. Let the rest of them finish their seasons.
   269. Harold can be a fun sponge Posted: October 12, 2006 at 02:29 AM (#2207863)
"He found Lidle's parents struggling to accept the loss of their son, a young man who loved flying his new airplane and playing poker."

That has to be an intentional allusion to the Arthur Rhodes comment, right?


It could be, but isn't it also possible that Lidle was obsessive over his two hobbies, to the point that it was noticeable to Rhodes?
   270. Sean McNally Posted: October 12, 2006 at 02:48 AM (#2207907)
Peter Abraham has some of the statements from the Yankees on his blog - without permission, I'm snipping those- sorry, Pete.

Jason Giambi
"Right now, I am really in a state of shock, as I am sure the entire MLB family is. My thoughts are with Cory's relatives and the loved ones of the others who were injured or killed in this plane crash. I have known Cory and his wife Melanie for over 18 years and watched his son grow up. We played high school ball together and have remained close throughout our careers. We were excited to be reunited in New York this year and I am just devastated to hear this news."

George Steinbrenner
"This is a terrible and shocking tragedy that has stunned the entire Yankees organization. I offer my deep condolences and prayers to his wife, Melanie, and son, Christopher, on their enormous loss."

Joe Torre
"This is a terrible shock. I was with Ron Guidry and Lee Mazzilli when I heard the news and we were just stunned. Cory's time with the Yankees was short, but he was a good teammate and a great competitor. My heart goes out to his family."

Derek Jeter
"I am shocked by this devastating news. Spending the last few months as Cory's teammate, I came to know him as a great man. While he was known as a baseball player, he was, more importantly, a husband and father and, at a time like this, I want to share my deepest sympathies with his wife Melanie, his son Christopher and all those who know and loved him."

Brian Cashman
"I am deeply saddened by this tragic event and I ask everyone to keep Cory, his family and all those affected by this tragedy in your prayers."

and Phillies President David Montgomery
"The Phillies family is extremely saddened by the tragic news involving Cory Lidle. Our thoughts and prayers are extended to his wife Melanie, son Christopher and those families who were affected by the terrible incident in New York."
   271. Infinite Joost (Voxter) Posted: October 12, 2006 at 02:54 AM (#2207916)
See, *that's* what makes this so weird for me, aside from Cory Lidle being a major league baseball who I had some familiarity with. Voxter was having a crazy game chatter discussion of him just, what--3 days ago? I don't even get into game chatters that much anymore, so that adds to the creepiness.

Yeah, that's bugging me out a little bit, too.
   272. winnipegwhip Posted: October 12, 2006 at 03:08 AM (#2207946)
I pray to God that Cory's wife and son were not informed of the tragedy prior to landing in California on their commercial flight. Kudos to MLB for having a representative there to meet them. Shame on the media which is now staking out the Lidle house in California at this time. (Mrs Lidle and Christopher are at other relatives thank goodness.)
   273. Darren Posted: October 12, 2006 at 03:19 AM (#2207973)
These days, we like to know what the hell is going on when planes crash into our buildings.

There are ways to do this without leaking the names of the victims, I presume.
   274. FJ Posted: October 12, 2006 at 03:26 AM (#2207988)
C-Wok,

It took me a long time to learn this, so I'll pass it on to you: not everything is funny.


Now, that's an interesting thought.

There may be times when human beings think humor is inappropriate.

But that doesn't mean that not everything is funny.

I've been re-reading Campbell's The Hero With a Thousand Faces and he talks about how the change from accepting things as tragic to accepting the comedic and/or joy aspects of life are part of the transformations hinted at by the mythology throughout the world.

In a sense, being able to fully embrace life and it's tragedies (and there will always be tragedies, since as Nieperont pointed out, everyone WILL die) which includes being able to see the humor in tragic situations is part of the life-changing force in life.

Of course, I may be misinterpreting things....

F
   275. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: October 12, 2006 at 03:41 AM (#2208020)
since as Nieperont pointed out, everyone WILL die)

With the notable exception of Derek Jeter, surely.
   276. Francoeur Sans Gages (AlouGoodbye) Posted: October 12, 2006 at 03:53 AM (#2208030)
Jeter will die. How else can he be resurrected on the third day?
   277. outoftownscoreboard Posted: October 12, 2006 at 03:59 AM (#2208034)
here's a game lidle should be remembered for

if someone hasn't mentioned it already. i was there: it was throw back uniform night. good stuff. rip.
   278. PerroX Posted: October 12, 2006 at 04:04 AM (#2208036)
You don't have to like the fact that Lidle scabbed (I don't), but when someone dies in an accident, I feel badly for both that person and his friends and family. I'll still feel badly if it turns out, as is likely, that he made the fatal errors that led to his death.

And while I don't think you should not be critical or even say bad things about other people because they will one day die, I do think it would do us all well to remember our common humanity and to, in fact, remember that we will all one day die. We should treat one another as well as we possibly can in any given circumstance, regardless of whether we like or dislike that person. Circumstances may require harsh or forceful action against a person, but that doesn't erase our shared humanity.
   279. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: October 12, 2006 at 04:51 AM (#2208055)
I feel bad for the dude just chillin' in his apartment, and then some White guy with a plane flies into it and kills him.
   280. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: October 12, 2006 at 04:56 AM (#2208058)
"If union members living in Pittsburgh didn't support the MLBPA during the strike (and I'll take your word for it), that's a sad commentary on the state of labor in Pittsburgh."

Speaking as a Pittsburgher and former union member (3x, left all three by changing industries), I have absolutely no problem with non-members of the MLBPA crossing picket lines. The MLBPA doesn't run an open shop, so they can go suck eggs for not being willing to represent professional baseball players of all stripes. MLBPA members who broke ranks are, of course, a different story.

The news about Lidle just sucks. I was sitting at the hospital watching CNN (and waiting for my grandmother to die, in case the thread isn't depressing enough) when the news about the plane hitting the building broke, but I had no idea until tonight that Lidle was the pilot. Like everyone else, best wishes to the family.
   281. Dr. Vaux Posted: October 12, 2006 at 05:00 AM (#2208059)
See, that's what I have a problem with. Working in an industry that has unionized workers in it, without being a member of a union, encourages shop owners to think that someday they can break the unions. It's an act of unspeakable treachery.
   282. outoftownscoreboard Posted: October 12, 2006 at 05:02 AM (#2208061)
I have absolutely no problem with non-members of the <fill blank> crossing picket lines

just rereading 'Sometimes A Great Notion' and agree.
   283. Best Regards, President of Comfort, Esq. Posted: October 12, 2006 at 05:03 AM (#2208062)
C'mon Vlad, this has been discussed time and time again. The MLBPA CANNOT represent minor leaguers. The labor laws prevent it.
   284. PerroX Posted: October 12, 2006 at 05:19 AM (#2208066)
It's an act of unspeakable treachery.

I'm pro-union, I don't think scabbing is ever justified, but please... Unspeakable, but not unwritable, huh? Scabs are basically scapegoats anyway, easier and often more vilified targets than the true scumbags who hire them.

I feel bad for the dude just chillin' in his apartment

I didn't see that anyone in the building was injured. And any dudes not retired in that building were likely working to pay off the price of living there. We're talking Upper East Side, a dee-luxe apartment in the sky.
   285. Foster Posted: October 12, 2006 at 05:23 AM (#2208067)
I feel bad for the dude just chillin' in his apartment, and then some White guy with a plane flies into it and kills him.


This made me laugh, for better or worse.

I work in a NYC broadcast newsroom, and my day went from la la la bush press conference to PLANE CRASH INTO A BUILDING 9-11 AGAIN to ok it was an accident to YANKEES PITCHER DEAD in the course of 45 minutes.

I've been reading this thread since the accident, and while I feel sorry for the Lidle family, we have no way of knowing what the family knows, when. When we get information, we report it, unless there are compelling security or sensitivity reasons. No one asked us to back off, in this case.
   286. Best Regards, President of Comfort, Esq. Posted: October 12, 2006 at 05:30 AM (#2208068)
Whoever owned that apartment needs a place to stay tonight.

Fortunately, they just met a guy on the plane who makes and sells soap.
   287. John Lowenstein Apathy Club Posted: October 12, 2006 at 05:36 AM (#2208071)
We're talking Upper East Side, a dee-luxe apartment in the sky.

Cory Lidle gave up a lot of killer home runs for my team, but if George and Weezy end up on that death toll I'm gonna be really pissed at him.
   288. cardsfanboy Posted: October 12, 2006 at 05:59 AM (#2208073)
Not disingenuous. Just wrong, maybe. If union members living in Pittsburgh didn't support the MLBPA during the strike (and I'll take your word for it), that's a sad commentary on the state of labor in Pittsburgh.

considering that the players union wouldn't support the umpires union, I have to agree with everyone else that believes the players union should be treated differently than true unions.
   289. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: October 12, 2006 at 06:05 AM (#2208075)
It's too bad that A-Rod wasn't a passenger on the plane. Because then it wouldn't have hit anything.
   290. Orange & Blue Velvet Posted: October 12, 2006 at 06:40 AM (#2208078)
It's too bad that A-Rod wasn't a passenger on the plane. Because then it wouldn't have hit anything.

Nah... it would've hit Jeter's house.
   291. 'zop sympathizes with the wrong ####### people Posted: October 12, 2006 at 06:48 AM (#2208080)
Nah... it would've hit Jeter's house.

And bounced off the window and fell, while Jeter watched silently.
   292. Best Regards, President of Comfort, Esq. Posted: October 12, 2006 at 06:50 AM (#2208081)
   293. Bangkok9 eschews 1 from Column A Posted: October 12, 2006 at 06:57 AM (#2208087)
And bounced off the window and fell, while Jeter watched silently.

You're thinking of Sheffield's glove, I believe.
   294. eerbeek Posted: October 12, 2006 at 09:41 AM (#2208093)
Sorry, you're very wrong. These days, we like to know what the hell is going on when planes crash into our buildings. Seeing as I work a half-block from the World Trade Center, I'd prefer to know whether I should be expecting any more flying projectiles today, at the expense of someone learning their loved one died in the wrong way (as if there's a right way?).

YOU, my friend, are very wrong. Wanting to know "what the hell is going on" is extraordinarily far removed from showing respect to a family who just lost a loved one and doesn't even KNOW yet. How would you like to learn YOUR son died tragically from the f***ing NEWS MEDIA?

You didn't have a "NEED" to know the name of the pilot in even the smallest of ways. Besides that, the media was grossly inaccurate in their reporting and therefore, you weren't really being TOLD "what the hell was going on". You were being told bits and pieces of erroneous, unconfirmed information that were largely untrue. Is that more valuable than waiting a few moments to make sure the facts are correct or that a family has been notified? NOPE!

LONG before his name came out, all sources were confirming that this was NOT thought to be a terrorist incident even to the point of stressing that the plane was of no interest to NORAD before the the crash. It was reported as just a small private plane that crashed into an apt. building. With all the small planes in the NY area, it could almost immediately be surmised that a private pilot had something go terribly wrong. This particular accident had absolutely NO similarities to the terrorist M.O. of maximum damage and loss of life.

In this case, the media also knew EXAcTLY where Lidle's wife was... on a commercial flight (ironic!). I would like to think that America's "desire to know" is NOT outweighed by the family's "RIGHT AND NEED TO KNOW" before America does. I don't care in the least that you work near WTC... in THIS case, your petty little desire to know the name of the pilot does not override the expectation of respect to the family.

How, exactly, does working next to the WTC give you more of a right to have your desires met in knowing the name of a pilot than the right of the family to know their loved one is gone before you do? Frankly, I'm sick to death of New Yorkers still going on about 9/11 FIVE YEARS LATER as though their concerns, their memorial, their compensations, etc. are all more important than those of other Americans. And don't say it doesn't happen, I see it all the time... just look at the nauseating debate over what to erect on the WTC site and how "proper memorials" must be first concern. Get over it. It was FIVE YEARS AGO. If you want a memorial, erect one in your backyard, but don't waste prime NY real estate on something you might visit once a year at this point.

I've been reading this thread since the accident, and while I feel sorry for the Lidle family, we have no way of knowing what the family knows, when. When we get information, we report it, unless there are compelling security or sensitivity reasons. No one asked us to back off, in this case.

How about the "compelling reason" that many of the earliest reports were grossly innaccurate and full of speculation rather than fact?

I don't believe this for one second. A couple of quick phone calls and you know who is where and if they've been told. Certainly, given the media's excitement to report and pass on FALSE information in the early moments after the crash, they COULD have taken the time to make a couple of calls to ensure the family was informed BEFORE releasing something as UNIMPORTANT to the overall story and drama as the name of the pilot.

Because it was Lidle doesn't make the name of the pilot any more important and urgent to get out than if it was Joe Smith of Anywhere, USA. Lidle was a likeable BALL PLAYER. Not a hero in the true sense of the word. Not a life-saving surgeon with a live human organ in a cooler on his lap heading to restore someone's health. He wasn't a head of state who worked diligently to make the world a better place. He wasn't anything more than a guy in his plane and making terrible mistakes in its operation. His life's work, evidently, consisted of playing games (baseball and poker). In the grand scope of things, not a more or less "important" individual than anyone else.

All America "needed" to know at the time was that it was a tragic accident and not an act of terrorism. This can be conveyed any one of a million different ways without releasing the name of the pilot while ensuring the family was not only told, but being taken care of.

Given the absolute FLOOD of inaccurate information conveyed by the media earlier, they obviously don't care about checking the integrity of their facts, either. "Getting information and then reporting on it" to all of America and the world carries with it some responsibility for ACCURACY, SENSITIVITY, and COMMON SENSE. I remember seeing this "eyewitness" insisting it was a helicopter. Ridiculous, now that we know the truth!

Does the media REALLY have so little humanity or concern for those left behind that they need to be "told to back off" for a few minutes while the family is located and told? Shouldn't BASIC HUMAN DECENCY 101 have taught them that reporting a death to America is "insensitive" if the family doesn't even know yet?

That is one of the lamest comments here, especially since you preface it with "unless there is a compelling security or sensitivity" issue. How about sensitivity to those who will be grieving the most for the loss?
   295. eerbeek Posted: October 12, 2006 at 10:16 AM (#2208095)
NBC Local news is reporting this morning that there was actually NO distress call from Lidle's plane before it crashed. Not sure if this just refers to the immediate moments before the crash or if it means that earlier reports that he called ATC like a minute after take off are also false.

SEE? The media made another huge error in reporting. A distress call and its details could have been the whole answer to the crash. Now, it appears the answers will wait for investigation. And even then, we may not get the answers.

Twin brother was remarkably composed in an interview from FL. He's trying to hook up with his family ASAP, of course, but is really dazed by the event.

They also report that it is still unclear as to who was controlling the plane as it crashed. Also, I have NOT SEEN any mention of a name of his (now referred to as) "Flying Companion". Hmmmm.... Lidle's name had to get right out there immediately, regardless of whether the family knew. The Flying Companion's family still has the luxury of anonymity in their grief. Anyone at all see the unfairness of it all?
   296. Bangkok9 eschews 1 from Column A Posted: October 12, 2006 at 10:59 AM (#2208096)
They knew the widow's name, they even knew her seat number and the commercial flight has a radio. I doubt she was uninformed...

And the Flying Companion is not a public figure, most likely. So Lidle's name is the only one that sells papers. Price of fame.

Anyhow, the era of personal privacy ended some years ago. Sorry if you didn't get the memo.
   297. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: October 12, 2006 at 11:06 AM (#2208097)
Eerbeek's take on this is 100% correct. There was absolutely no compelling reason to release Lidle's name to the media until his family was first informed.
   298. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: October 12, 2006 at 11:18 AM (#2208100)
They knew the widow's name, they even knew her seat number and the commercial flight has a radio. I doubt she was uninformed...

Nice assumption, that the authorities wouldn't have waited until the plane landed before informing her. And if your assumption is wrong?

And the Flying Companion is not a public figure, most likely. So Lidle's name is the only one that sells papers. Price of fame.

Anyhow, the era of personal privacy ended some years ago. Sorry if you didn't get the memo.


Perhaps you'd like to tell us if you'd been first to learn of Lidle's identity, would you have spread his name all over the world, on the ground that "it was going to happen anyway"? Or are you just ducking behind someone else's cover and posing as the anonymous cynical observer?

The consequences of this callous mindset go far beyond the grief of one family, and it's a pretty sad commentary that it's so widely accepted in a great part of the media.
   299. baudib Posted: October 12, 2006 at 11:30 AM (#2208104)
Andy, you're a complete idiot.

The public's right to know absolutely overrides any concern for the family. In case you didn't notice, there was, within recent memory, a highly public incident of airplanes flying into tall buildings in New York. Because of that, there were legitimate national security issues involved.

Also, let's not forget that Cory Lidle is not an innocent victim here. He was responsible for killing himself and another person, injured several, and was damned lucky to have not killed more people.
   300. eerbeek Posted: October 12, 2006 at 11:57 AM (#2208109)
Baudib: You are clearly a less than thoughtful person. The public's right to know the name of the pilot is completely lost on me.

All the public had a "right" to know was that this was nothing more or less than a horrible, tragic accident and not terrorist related. That's IT. The public does not have a "right" to know anything more, least of all the name of the pilot before his family has been informed.

IF there are "legitimate national security issues involved", how are they best being served by notifying an entire planet that a baseball pitcher from NY flew into a building without even making a couple of calls to see that the family knew about it and could prepare for the media "coverage", including camping out at the family home?

Further, it has not been determined who had control of the plane at the time, so you don't know if Lidle or the Companion (an instructor?) was responsible for the deaths, injuries or damage. Regardless, the support is not intended to be directed towards him, but towards his grieving family. They did NOTHING wrong.

Today Show reported this morning that while they would like to recognize the death of the Companion, NO DETAILS of his name or anything else were released. Just because Lidle was "famous" is no reason to intrude and trample on his FAMILY (who didn't ask for the attention garnered on him). The companions family is LUCKY to not have his name released. They can grieve in private, as the Lidle's should be allowed to do. THEY were not the public figure.
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