Over those 200+ innings, the position players have posted a 7.64 ERA, and a 7.82 RA/9. That ERA is supported by the peripherals, as the position players have generated 77 strikeouts, 157 walks, and 33 home runs. The home runs aren’t laugh-out-loud horrible, but they’re bad, and the strikeout-to-walk ratio is ghastly. Predictably ghastly, sure, but ghastly nonetheless, as position players possess neither command nor putaway pitches.
But there was one statistic that blew me away. One statistic that caught me so off guard that I double-, triple-, and quadruple-checked it to make sure I didn’t screw up the calculation. I looked at the position players’ collective batting average allowed on balls in play (BABIP). I was expecting something in the mid-.300s or so, figuring that they’d allow a greater rate of solid contact than the typical figure you see with real pitchers. Why wouldn’t they? They aren’t real pitchers.
But I didn’t get a BABIP in the mid-.300s. I got .296.
In other words, I got a BABIP very near the league average. The league average for real pitchers. I think it’s a little higher—the .300 BABIP rule we have in our heads doesn’t apply to the 1970s and ‘80s, when the league BABIP was lower—but it’s not off by much. Over the last few decades, position players have seen a similar number of balls in play find holes as pitchers have.
Reader Comments and Retorts
Go to end of page
Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.
1. Lowry Seasoning Salt Posted: August 04, 2011 at 02:46 AM (#3892349)I think this is notable, even if Voros pointed it out years ago. There were many statheads that could only sanely accept DIPS because of the idea that the minor league system successfully weeded out the bad pitchers that would naturally have higher BABIPs. It was a way of softening the brain-exploding blow... "no, BABIP is definitely a skill, Pedro would have a better BABIP than you or me, it's just that everyone who sticks in the majors is good enough and we don't see differences."
And it's still kind of brain-exploding. Were Glendon Rusch and Steve Woodward really just unlucky 10 years in a row?
That of course, cannot explain Wilson Valdez.
In college, like many of us, I played on an intramural co-ed softball team. There were no umpires and no walks. Some teams employed the terrible but very effective strategy of putting their most inept girl on the pitcher's mound. You would watch about 6 totally unhittable balls go, swing at the first one anywhere near the strike zone, and hit it weakly.
Seems like that's an effect that one could control for though - check the BABIP against real pitchers in the 9th inning of any game with a 12 run lead.
The position players spend all their BP time hitting off coaches with 80 MPH fastballs (or less), so it can't be that surprising.
I also have in my mind's eye things like the eephus pitch and the Folly Floater. Those balls are literally just "lobbed" to the plate, and all the batter has to do is wait and time it -- and hope he doesn't look too much fool when he swings and misses.
Batting is just damn hard.
Well, that it is within the margin of error of all other pitching performances within the time frame IS interesting. Not conclusive, but a useful data point.
For example, if I were on the mound, after I gave up 5 or 6 home runs in a row, and someone finally got under one a little bit, and flew out to the warning track, my BABIP is pretty good, even though I'm not pitching well at all...
Basically all this is measuring is what happens when a baseball player doesn't crush the ball and with position players pitching they crush the ball a lot.
Aside from the assasination Mrs. Lincoln how was the play?
Damn you KJOK for beating me to the punch.
A spot mound appearance changed his life.
Why would this lead to that conclusion? This is an average performance of many different styles of pitcher, combined into one guy. This tells us that BABIP doesn't correspond to QUALITY of pitcher, not to individual pitchers or styles of pitcher.
You can be good or bad at any of those, but all those things could easily influence your expected BABIP.
This article does nothing to show that a specific pitcher is "unlucky" because he has a high BABIP.
I have, too. It's usually around .330. The sample size of position players pitching is getting smaller as teams expand their bullpens (I haven't even seen it yet in the minors this year, usually by now I've seen at least two or three games where a position player pitched). There have been five in the majors this year, four in the AL (McCoy, Maier, Kelly, Cuddyer) and Wilson Valdez in the NL. They've all done pretty well, actually; think Cuddyer's the only one who has allowed a hit.
-- MWE
He bounced a curve ball, it got called a ball and he screamed at the ump, "Don't squeeze me. I need that pitch to be effective." (or something close)
I think there's an element of mercy rules in play (generally speaking) when a position player is in there. Game's out of hand and everybody wants to get home with a minimum of fuss.
It's basically exhibition game stats other than the rare occasions when a position player is forced into a meaningful situation. I'd be very reluctant to draw any conclusions from the stats.
I swear I thought the Cardinals had a position player pitch for them this year...I guess considering the "success" our bullpen has, it just felt like it was not a real pitcher pitching.
It may be obvious to you, but it's the complete opposite of what everyone in baseball believed for a hundred years.
And yet position players give up large numbers of runs, home runs, and walks. The opposing players aren't just getting up and swinging at anything.
No, although I did miss one, Brian Petersen of the Marlins.
Mitch Maier allowed a hit, Cuddyer allowed 2. Overall hitters are 3-19 with 2 walks and a HBP against their fellow non-pitchers this year.
Yep.
-- MWE
Non Pitchers Pitching
That's everyone I could identify since 1946 through 2006 (before that everything gets a little dicey). One difference though is that the league average BABIP for those pitchers is considerably lower because for much of that time period it was considerably lower. So the gap I had as 20 points.
It's also worth noting that if a single season BABIP for a pitcher is unreliable, so is the above since it's only about two seasons worth or pitching.
You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.
<< Back to main