Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Wednesday, April 11, 2018

Lovullo and Molina suspended

I haven’t seen this discussed. It seems off, to me. A manager being suspended is hardly anything as he can manage just as well by text. (I assume he can’t come to the park).

And it looks to me like Lovullo was clearly in the wrong and admits he was in the wrong. But maybe I missed something?

bunyon Posted: April 11, 2018 at 08:17 AM | 32 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: cardinals, diamondbacks, mothers day

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. salvomania Posted: April 11, 2018 at 08:34 AM (#5651277)
Even if someone calls you a name, if you're an adult you shouldn't rush at them and try to attack them. If you're a major-league baseball player, and you do that, and you make contact with an umpire---even if it's "incidental"---and cause benches to clear, then, yes, you shouldn't be surprised to get a suspension.
   2. bunyon Posted: April 11, 2018 at 08:39 AM (#5651286)
Yeah, I wasn't clear in the intro. I would have suspended Molina. I just would've suspended Lovullo more. I'd get it if it were a player. But managers doing that should be well over the line. And, like suspension comparisons between position players and pitchers, suspensions between managers and players aren't equal.

I like that Lovullo confessed to being the bad guy but I'd have given him 3 or 4 games to Molina's one.

And I am neither a Cardinal fan (very much not) nor a Molina fan (though I respect his playing).
   3. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: April 11, 2018 at 11:38 AM (#5651402)
A manager being suspended is hardly anything as he can manage just as well by text. (I assume he can’t come to the park).

I thought that teams weren't allowed to have electronic equipment in the dugout to receive texts. This came up last season with Ariel Prieto wearing an Apple watch in the dugout. (And before that with the Red Sox stealing signs.)
   4. bunyon Posted: April 11, 2018 at 11:42 AM (#5651408)
In the dugout, sure. So, the acting manager has an overactive bladder and has to head to the clubhouse every few minutes. What are you going to do?

Suspending a manager just doesn't hurt that much. I guess it costs them money. It would be better to just levy a massive fine and do away with the pretense that kicking him out of the dugout hurts them.
   5. Man o' Schwar Posted: April 11, 2018 at 11:42 AM (#5651409)
If you're a major-league baseball player, and you do that, and you make contact with an umpire---even if it's "incidental"---and cause benches to clear, then, yes, you shouldn't be surprised to get a suspension.

Yeah, that should be pretty clear. You bump an ump, you get a suspension. It's been that way for as long as I can remember.
   6. Internet Commenter Posted: April 11, 2018 at 02:00 PM (#5651509)
Lovullo deserves a game for his part, but Molina deserves several for pushing the umpire and trying to attack Lovullo. Although unsurprising, it's laughable that he wasn't ejected on the spot. As the punishment for the hacking case demonstrated, the Cardinals are obviously subject to a particularly forgiving set of conduct standards relative to the rest of the league.
   7. bunyon Posted: April 11, 2018 at 02:05 PM (#5651514)
I'd guess he wasn't ejected because the ump knew why he was angry, who he was angry with and felt it was justified.

   8. bunyon Posted: April 11, 2018 at 02:18 PM (#5651519)
I mean that to say: the way I see the video, the ump knows that Molina will be coming for Lovullo and, while the ump does his job to keep Molina from taking Lovullo apart, he clearly isn't angry with Molina. The ump is focused on Lovullo as the bad guy even during the fracas and, afterwards, doesn't eject Molina. It speaks volumes to me that the ump doesn't eject Molina. It's either evidence of a conspiracy to favor the Cardinals or that the guy who was closest to the whole thing didn't view Molina as the bad guy. One of those makes a lot of sense. The other, not so much.
   9. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 11, 2018 at 02:32 PM (#5651527)
I mean that to say: the way I see the video, the ump knows that Molina will be coming for Lovullo and, while the ump does his job to keep Molina from taking Lovullo apart, he clearly isn't angry with Molina. The ump is focused on Lovullo as the bad guy even during the fracas and, afterwards, doesn't eject Molina. It speaks volumes to me that the ump doesn't eject Molina. It's either evidence of a conspiracy to favor the Cardinals or that the guy who was closest to the whole thing didn't view Molina as the bad guy. One of those makes a lot of sense. The other, not so much.

Right. But the ump is wrong. What Lovullo did was bad; what Molina did was worse. You don't get to physically attack a guy for calling you a MFer. If Molina physically got to Lovullo, he would have gotten a very long suspension.

You definitely don't get to touch the ump. Ever. That's the 2nd commandment, only after don't bet on baseball.
   10. shoewizard Posted: April 11, 2018 at 03:21 PM (#5651560)
I'd guess he wasn't ejected because the ump knew why he was angry, who he was angry with and felt it was justified.


The ump feeling that way, even justifiably so, and Molina deserving to get a 1 game suspension are not mutually exclusive.

The Ump was a combatant in this instance as well. He was the one that ###### up in the first place by making terrible calls twice early in the game turning walks into strikeouts. Timmons instigated the entire thing by his incompetence. Then he ejected TL as soon as he came out of the dugout and came towards him. Ok, you can't argue balls and strikes......but Timmons was clearly on adrenaline at this point.

TL stepped over the line verbally. You can't use Mother F----R in baseball. Not if you don't want someone swinging at you. It's an unwritten rule, but that is going to be the response every day.

So from an in the trenches, combatant view, Timmons was simply on Yadi's side .

And guess what....NONE of that mitigates the fact that a player cannot bump an ump twice, and take a swing at an opposing team's manager without being physically threatened himself.

So thats where the commish office comes in. They HAVE to enforce this. Yadi is lucky it's only one game.

Drop the appeal and sit down a game.
   11. John Northey Posted: April 11, 2018 at 03:26 PM (#5651570)
Molina should've got multiple games for that. He was trying to assault Lovullo over a word. What was he called? I've been called everything in the book by my kids over the years (as has every half decent parent) and I know not to go off and physically attack someone over words. The fact the ump had to hold him back was terrible.

Heck, if I was a ML hitter and I knew what set him off I'd use it on him during a game - especially if it is a tight game and the other catcher was already used for his team. Ideally used by a fielder when he is on base with the ump far enough away that he cannot hear it thus skyrocketing the odds of Molina getting ejected.
   12. bunyon Posted: April 11, 2018 at 03:26 PM (#5651571)
Molina has dropped the appeal.
   13. shoewizard Posted: April 11, 2018 at 03:37 PM (#5651593)
and that should end it then.

Until they play next time. Some D Backs pitcher might take a shot at Yadi in retaliation for him swinging at their manager. I hope they don't. It would be childish, stupid, & counter productive, but this IS MLB we are talking about, so you never know.
   14. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: April 11, 2018 at 03:42 PM (#5651602)
TL stepped over the line verbally. You can't use Mother F----R in baseball. Not if you don't want someone swinging at you. It's an unwritten rule, but that is going to be the response every day.


This I find shocking. The stereotype of baseball players as unusually foul-mouthed and constantly heckling each other wtih profanity has existed for well over a century. There's an exception for this word only?
   15. cardsfanboy Posted: April 11, 2018 at 03:51 PM (#5651613)
I flat out stated Molina was going to get suspended, and probably should have been tossed from the game. I don't know what is wrong here at all. It probably should have been a two or three game suspension, not a one game suspension. Touching an ump, even if the ump is trying to keep you from someone else, is not acceptable from any player no(almost) matter what.
   16. shoewizard Posted: April 11, 2018 at 04:09 PM (#5651639)
This I find shocking. The stereotype of baseball players as unusually foul-mouthed and constantly heckling each other wtih profanity has existed for well over a century. There's an exception for this word only?


who knows why.....but this one is especially egregious in their world.
   17. mendozaline Posted: April 11, 2018 at 04:49 PM (#5651677)
Hey Snapper,
F you you MFer. Dont get mad though. At least I know you won't physically attack me.
   18. Walt Davis Posted: April 11, 2018 at 04:51 PM (#5651679)
One of those makes a lot of sense. The other, not so much

True. Molina is a Cardinal and, by definition, the bad guy. So pro-Cards conspiracy it is!

this one is especially egregious in their world.

Should have called him an uncle f----r.
   19. PreservedFish Posted: April 11, 2018 at 04:55 PM (#5651688)
who knows why.....but this one is especially egregious in their world.


I remember, during the Robbie Alomar Spitgate scandal, speculation that the umpire had called Alomar a ############ without knowing that such a curse is much, much worse in Latin cultures than in America.
   20. Leroy Kincaid Posted: April 11, 2018 at 05:10 PM (#5651699)
The announcers of another game (can't recall who) said that the manager got on the ump for allowing Molina to cheat by "framing" pitches and that set Yadier off. If true, then kudos to Louwhatever for calling that crap out. Of course his catchers probably do it as well.
   21. shoewizard Posted: April 11, 2018 at 05:14 PM (#5651701)
His words were "You can't let that Mother ###### turn balls into strikes"
   22. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: April 11, 2018 at 06:09 PM (#5651738)
His words were "You can't let that Mother ###### turn balls into strikes"


And Molina goes off like a methhead bumping into the ump, throwing a swing at the other guy and being overtly threatening...and he only gets one game?

That's rubbish. Civil people don't behave that way. We've all been called names at one time or another but you don't push your wife, kids, strangers, etc out the way and threaten to "beat up" another person. What are we, like 9 years old? This is ridiculous.

You definitely don't get to touch the ump. Ever.


This. Once that line is crossed, the authority of the officiator is lost. No matter how cr*p the guy calling the game is, you have to respect his authority and once the game is done and dusted you approach the matter through the proper channels, this is how civilised people get things done.
   23. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: April 11, 2018 at 06:27 PM (#5651747)
You definitely don't get to touch the ump. Ever.
In principle that's true, and I completely agree that Molina should get a longer suspension, but not based on the ump contact per se. From what I saw, he was going to go after Lovullo, and the ump intervened like a catcher would hold back a pitcher from charging the mound. Of course Molina should have stopped going after Lovullo (and shouldn't have gone after him in the first place), but it was the ump who initiated the contact. At that point, what was Molina supposed to do, react instantly and lunge out of the way of the ump?
   24. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: April 11, 2018 at 07:00 PM (#5651759)
but it was the ump who initiated the contact. At that point, what was Molina supposed to do, react instantly and lunge out of the way of the ump?


Your interpretation of "initiated" is pretty loose here. Watch it again.

The ump sticks out his arm to stop Molina from getting up in Luvollo's face. Molina then starts thrusting forward against the arm at which time the ump puts his whole body in the way. Of course then Molina continues to shove and bump the ump for a spell. Once the umps puts up his arm to stop Molina from advancing, sane people back down at that stage and don't forcibly continue on once the ump has moved in front to prevent a full on confrontation.

Molina's reaction is way over the top and deserved the much longer suspension. Yes, I agree there was no way to avoid the initial contact once the ump put his arm up to stop an advancing Molina but that is where the contact needs to stop and Molina needs to back off immediately.

   25. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 11, 2018 at 07:14 PM (#5651766)
In principle that's true, and I completely agree that Molina should get a longer suspension, but not based on the ump contact per se. From what I saw, he was going to go after Lovullo, and the ump intervened like a catcher would hold back a pitcher from charging the mound. Of course Molina should have stopped going after Lovullo (and shouldn't have gone after him in the first place), but it was the ump who initiated the contact. At that point, what was Molina supposed to do, react instantly and lunge out of the way of the ump?

Well, if he actually hit Lovullo it would have been much worse. I'd give him at least 30 games for that. But, the ump intercede, so Molina gets suspended for bumping him.
   26. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 11, 2018 at 07:15 PM (#5651770)
Hey Snapper,
F you you MFer. Dont get mad though. At least I know you won't physically attack me.


I'd probably just laugh at you. I don't get the idea that MFer is some supreme insult. It's an insult that almost literally is never true. Insults that are patently false are just silly. If you called me stupid, or short, I'd laugh at you too.
   27. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: April 11, 2018 at 07:38 PM (#5651791)
That's 1 back! and things are cookin'


   28. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: April 11, 2018 at 07:38 PM (#5651793)
sh*t, wrong thread...
   29. The Duke Posted: April 11, 2018 at 10:08 PM (#5651940)
9. What do you mean you don’t get to attack someone who calls you a m...f..... I don’t know what kind of place you are from but if you call someone that where I come from you better be prepared to fight. I can hardly think of something more incendiary.

Having said that the umpire shove deserves a game. Lovell I should have gotten five mostly because a manager should not be out screwing with the other team’s players. This world is upside down - if he called him a queer he would have been suspended for six months and ridden out of town on a rail.
   30. Eddo Posted: April 11, 2018 at 11:20 PM (#5652016)
So if a fan in the front row had called Molina that, it would be OK if he had charged the stands?
   31. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: April 11, 2018 at 11:40 PM (#5652031)
Yes, I agree there was no way to avoid the initial contact once the ump put his arm up to stop an advancing Molina but that is where the contact needs to stop and Molina needs to back off immediately.
I think we're pretty much on the same page. I'm just saying a longer suspension should be based on his irrational aggression toward Lovullo, not on any per se rule about contact with the ump.
   32. Omineca Greg Posted: April 12, 2018 at 02:58 AM (#5652057)
I don't get the idea that MFer is some supreme insult. It's an insult that almost literally is never true

Are we having another Classical Greek thread so soon?

Oh man, that might be a little too pithy. Stretch it out...stretch it out, I've got to stay in my lane. Jim Morrison stretched that Οἰδίπους Τύραννος #### out for 12 minutes. I hate ############# Jim Morrison. When I was just 11 years old, all the "cool" older brothers listened to The Doors and Pink Floyd. I haven't really gotten over it, that is to say, I still hate those bands.

"Hall and Oates are lame." the cool older brothers would say. "They don't make cartoons with meat grinders and walking hammers. And Daryl Hall never whipped his dick out on stage in Florida, like a real artist!"

"What's your ####### point (I kind of had a potty-mouth for an 11 year old)? Robby Krieger never dressed up like a penguin. And even wearing penguin flippers, Oates is a better guitarist than Robby Krieger!

And then all the cool older brothers would try to give me noogies and stuff, which is so in keeping with a bunch of Grade 9s trying to show off their Rimbaudian credentials...

Chanson de la plus haute tour

Oisive jeunesse
À tout asservie,
Par délicatesse
J’ai perdu ma vie.
Ah! que le temps vienne
Où les cœurs s’éprennent.

Je me suis dit : laisse,
Et qu’on ne te voie :
Et sans la promesse
De plus hautes joies.
Que rien ne t’arrête
Auguste retraite.

J’ai tant fait patience
Qu’à jamais j’oublie;
Craintes et souffrances
Aux cieux sont parties.
Et la soif malsaine
Obscurcit mes veines.

Ainsi la Prairie
À l’oubli livrée,
Grandie, et fleurie
D’encens et d’ivraies,
Au bourdon farouche
De cent sales mouches.

Ah! Mille veuvages
De la si pauvre âme
Qui n’a que l’image
De la Notre-Dame!
Est-ce que l’on prie
La Vierge Marie ?

Oisive jeunesse
À tout asservie,
Par délicatesse
J’ai perdu ma vie.
Ah! que le temps vienne
Où les cœurs s’éprennent.


Whatever.

"Hello, I Love You" has more in common with Robin Thicke than it does Arthur Rimbaud.

Yeah, you know what I'm saying.

Looks like a good plagiarism to me. Not a great intellectual property theft. Virtually every self-absorbed wanker in the music world could have done it. And would have, had they managed to have so little talent that they copied in a clumsy manner that he did and then happened to have a #1 hit in the gift of the year.

His momentum was carrying him away from an original song, which I guess is why people were fooled into thinking this was a special rip-off job. I see nothing remarkable about it.

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

News

All News | Prime News

Old-School Newsstand


BBTF Partner

Dynasty League Baseball

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogOTP 2018 September 17: How Brett Kavanaugh explains his baseball ticket debt
(1906 - 12:58am, Sep 22)
Last: The Yankee Clapper

NewsblogIt's not the full moon that excites OMNICHATTER! for Sept. 21, 2018
(86 - 12:58am, Sep 22)
Last: Bote Man the walk-off king

NewsblogRed Sox Fan Dies Climbing On Top of Train Leaving Yankee Stadium
(17 - 12:56am, Sep 22)
Last: Howie Menckel

NewsblogOT - 2018 NBA Thread (Pre-Season Edition)
(509 - 12:36am, Sep 22)
Last: Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington

Gonfalon CubsThe Final Push
(157 - 12:32am, Sep 22)
Last: Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington

NewsblogJeff Banister fired as Texas Rangers manager
(9 - 11:39pm, Sep 21)
Last: Walt Davis

NewsblogMarlins CEO Derek Jeter: Don Mattingly 'under contract' for 2019
(13 - 10:49pm, Sep 21)
Last: Ziggy's screen name

Sox TherapyIT’S OVER
(5 - 10:29pm, Sep 21)
Last: Jose is an Absurd Force of Nature

NewsblogAddison Russell’s Ex-Wife Releases Detailed Allegations Of Abuse
(47 - 9:33pm, Sep 21)
Last: Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66)

NewsblogSimon - Why Does Bryce Harper Have -25 Defensive Runs Saved?
(9 - 8:39pm, Sep 21)
Last: RMc Has Bizarre Ideas to Fix Baseball

NewsblogHall of Famer John Smoltz says MLB needs an overhaul and proposes drastic changes
(67 - 8:23pm, Sep 21)
Last: RMc Has Bizarre Ideas to Fix Baseball

NewsblogPrimer Dugout (and link of the day) 9-21-2018
(22 - 8:11pm, Sep 21)
Last: RMc Has Bizarre Ideas to Fix Baseball

NewsblogJoe Maddon is angry with MLB over Cubs weather-impacted schedule
(61 - 6:58pm, Sep 21)
Last: A triple short of the cycle

NewsblogCain stars in Directional Outs Above Average
(15 - 5:16pm, Sep 21)
Last: Batman

NewsblogOT: Soccer Thread (2018-19 season begins!)
(820 - 3:57pm, Sep 21)
Last: I am going to be Frank

Page rendered in 0.3479 seconds
46 querie(s) executed