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Sunday, January 19, 2014

Madden: A-Rod ban may close door on his career while bringing climax to Selig’s crusade vs. PEDs

At least maybe Madden’s still a hero in Branson.

Barry Bonds (“I thought it was flaxseed oil) and Roger Clemens (“This man has never given me HGH, growth hormone or steroids of any kind”) both lost ground in the Baseball Writers Association Hall of Fame ballot and will likely never see their plaques in Cooperstown — certainly not in the near future.

Rafael Palmeiro (“I have never used steroids!”) fell off the Baseball Writers Association Hall of Fame ballot entirely and will never see a statue of himself in any of the ballparks where he accumulated his 3,020 hits and 569 home runs. At least maybe he’s still a hero in Cuba. Sammy Sosa (“I am clean, I have always been clean. There has been a lot of speculation but they don’t have no evidence.”) is about to join Palmeiro (probably after next year’s ballot) officially in baseball’s Hall of Disgrace. At least maybe he’s still a hero in the Dominican Republic. Mark McGwire (“I’m not here to talk about the past.”) is also likely to soon fall off the writers’ ballot, but unlike Palmeiro and Sosa, McGwire since owned up to his cheating and at least regained a measure of respect in the game as an accomplished batting coach.

And then there’s A-Rod (“It was disgusting. . . . the fact that the man from Milwaukee that put this suspension on me without one bit of evidence, something I didn’t do.”), who now proclaims to be looking at his year-long suspension as a “favor” from MLB, affording him a welcome vacation from the 20-year “grind” of mental and physical preparation that included an extensive regimen of testosterone and HGH injections. At a promotional appearance last week for a gym he supports in Mexico, A-Rod said he was looking forward to returning in 2015 and hoped “to play very well and finish my career in New York.” Just like he knew he had cheated, knew baseball, in fact, had the evidence against him, A-Rod knows playing baseball again for the Yankees — or anyone else — is pure fantasy on his part. His skills have eroded, and his body in the last couple of years was betraying him with the drugs. What does he expect to be after a year without them?

Repoz Posted: January 19, 2014 at 01:09 AM | 40 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: yankees

Reader Comments and Retorts

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Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. Bhaakon Posted: January 19, 2014 at 03:09 AM (#4641785)
His skills have eroded, and his body in the last couple of years was betraying him with the drugs. What does he expect to be after a year without them?


Show up, take the field, and cash his checks.
   2. Yastrzemski in left. Posted: January 19, 2014 at 03:10 AM (#4641786)
I'm actually looking forward to seeing A-Rod in pinstripes in 2015. Talk about a riot.
   3. John Northey Posted: January 19, 2014 at 01:09 PM (#4641877)
Yeah, other PED users who confessed and then came back sure flopped.
Pettitte: confessed in 2007/8 offseason, ERA+ of 111 in his age 36-41 seasons (one full year missed, age 39, ERA+ of 117 for age 40/41 over 260 2/3 IP) vs lifetime 117 ERA+
Giambi: confessed in 2004/5 offseason, OPS+ of 124 for age 34-42 seasons, 130 for 34-40 (skipping tail end stuff).
Braun: accused in 2011/12 offseason, OPS+ of 152 since, should be interesting to see now post-suspension how he does.

So I wouldn't say it will kill off A-Rod's career necessarily. Clearly guys can confess and 'move on' (or get caught and keep going).
   4. gehrig97 Posted: January 19, 2014 at 03:05 PM (#4641920)
Just want to once again point out that Clemens never failed a drug test, nor was a single shred of credible evidence ever produced linking him to steroids. He was, of course, named in the Mitchell Report. But. No evidence. Just sayin'.

Why bring this up now? No real reason. I was checking out his B-ref page earlier today. Good god.
   5. Greg Pope thinks the Cubs are reeking havoc Posted: January 19, 2014 at 03:14 PM (#4641925)
He was, of course, named in the Mitchell Report

Wasn't the evidence in the Mitchell Report also from McNamee? Meaning that it was determined not to be credible in the actual trail?
   6. Bob Tufts Posted: January 19, 2014 at 03:35 PM (#4641932)
The crusades were OK at first, but then they went too far.
   7. Benji Gil Gamesh Rises Posted: January 19, 2014 at 03:40 PM (#4641935)
Selig *may* well have climaxed over the ARod decision.
   8. jingoist Posted: January 19, 2014 at 03:47 PM (#4641938)
Yes Bob; just like the religious Crusades some 900 years ago I am afraid this PED version will also not end very well.
   9. Bob Tufts Posted: January 19, 2014 at 04:07 PM (#4641946)
Is "Selig" a modern translation for "Seljuq"?
   10. Publius Publicola Posted: January 19, 2014 at 04:11 PM (#4641948)
John, I'm not sure I'd use Giambi as an example to make your point. After the Balco scandal broke, his OPS+ otherwise inexplicably went from 148 to 90. Sosa also fell off the cliff overnight in the aftermath of his Congressiolal testimony. Melky hit for 157 OPS+, gets nailed, is suspended, and puts up an 88 the following year.

So yeah, they work. Big time.
   11. Bowling Baseball Fan Posted: January 19, 2014 at 04:30 PM (#4641955)
Does anyone have a complete list of everybody that has failed drug tests in the majors and minors since testing began? I do remember some 185 or so minor leaguers failing the first tests before they started punishing. How did their careers pan out after that? Or any of the other ones that failed since?
   12. Bob Tufts Posted: January 19, 2014 at 04:38 PM (#4641961)
BALCO broke in late September 2003. Giambi put up a 90 OPS+ in 2004, but posted a 161 OPS+ in 2005 when testing existed and the House Government Reform Committee was stirring the pot and a 148 OPS+ in 2006.

His lower numbers in 2004 and 2007 were related to a benign tumor and injuries.
   13. Publius Publicola Posted: January 19, 2014 at 04:43 PM (#4641965)
Yeah, he found another way to cheat, just like his teammate A-Rod.

Attributing his performance to a benign tumor is bullshit. He showed up to spring training in 2004 something like 40 pounds lighter. I would also argue that the benign tumors and steroid abuse would likely be steroid related.
   14. Bob Tufts Posted: January 19, 2014 at 04:47 PM (#4641969)
Thanks for the highly intellectual feedback, Publius. Now I can safely sign off.

Time for a vacation from the unattributed madness. Goodbye, BBTF.
   15. Bowling Baseball Fan Posted: January 19, 2014 at 04:52 PM (#4641971)
I feel like I just entered a political debate in Ohio. Which is to say, I feel like I lost some brain cells reading pp's yahoo comments section style ranting.
   16. Publius Publicola Posted: January 19, 2014 at 04:57 PM (#4641978)
Bob, you're the one with your eyes closed. Being a former player, you appear to be too emotionally compromised by the situation and seem incapable of drawing logical inference from the facts at hand.
   17. Bowling Baseball Fan Posted: January 19, 2014 at 05:09 PM (#4641988)
I trust his opinion of things more than anyone that wasn't in the locker rooms. He's shown quite well he's willing to put down players that hurt the team and praise the ones that did great things for his team. I value his insight. I think being a former professional athlete myself gives me a better understanding of his views and experiences.
   18. DJS and the Infinite Sadness Posted: January 19, 2014 at 05:22 PM (#4641997)
Kevin quote. Reposted without comment.

"you appear to be too emotionally compromised by the situation and seem incapable of drawing logical inference from the facts at hand.".
   19. Mike Emeigh Posted: January 19, 2014 at 05:30 PM (#4642002)
Maury Brown maintains a comprehensive list of players on all levels who have failed drug tests.

-- MWE
   20. Greg Pope thinks the Cubs are reeking havoc Posted: January 19, 2014 at 05:49 PM (#4642020)
Time for a vacation from the unattributed madness. Goodbye, BBTF.

Just put him on ignore. I don't, but half the site seems to.
   21. Publius Publicola Posted: January 19, 2014 at 06:06 PM (#4642033)
Balco had an amazing effect on some players (OPS+):

Boone 2003-140, 2004-94, 2005-73
Giambi 2003-148, 2004-90,
Wells 2003-132, 2004-105
Mueller 2003-140, 2004-106
Soriano 2003-126, 2004-100
Nixon 2003-149, 2004-123, 2005-109
Ordonez 2003-139, 2004-114
Huff 2003-145, 2004-124, 2005-94
Dmitri Young 2004-144, 2004-115
Edgar Martinez 2003-141, 2004-92
Garrett Anderson 2003-131, 2004-107, 2005-97
Carl Everett 2003-123, 2004-84





Frank Thomas actually went up 10 points from 146 to 156.
   22. God Posted: January 19, 2014 at 06:12 PM (#4642040)
Did he really call him "the man from Milwaukee?" That's hilarious. It should be a film noir title.
   23. Banta Posted: January 19, 2014 at 07:07 PM (#4642090)
We all see what we want to see and nobody knows who is right. I concur with Russlan's comment from the other day... This PED talk has been going on for over ten years and I'm personally exhausted by it. There's nothing new to say. I love this site and I know that these articles are posted because they seemingly drive traffic*, but... I just wish it wasn't the case. Sigh.

*provided that comments correlate with traffic
   24. Ray K Posted: January 19, 2014 at 07:34 PM (#4642108)
Just want to once again point out that Clemens never failed a drug test, nor was a single shred of credible evidence ever produced linking him to steroids. He was, of course, named in the Mitchell Report. But. No evidence. Just sayin'.


Who was the player whose trainer supplied PEDs to his teammates and also testified that he supplied PEDs to the player in the Mitchell Report, and one of those teammates even said the player once told him he was also taking PEDs. But when publicly confronted, the player said "no, my trainer gave HGH to my wife" even though it was his trainer and he was the professional athlete who would stand to gain millions from using PEDs and not her. Finally, his teammate and friend said, "ok, whatever" and so the whole thing was dropped because they couldn't prove the player had committed perjury.

That is what the experts call "NOT A SINGLE SHRED OF EVIDENCE."
   25. Publius Publicola Posted: January 19, 2014 at 07:36 PM (#4642111)
High five, Ray K.
   26. Dr. Vaux Posted: January 19, 2014 at 07:41 PM (#4642117)
Yes, that's what I'd call not a single shred of evidence. Guilt by association is not evidence.
   27. Publius Publicola Posted: January 19, 2014 at 07:44 PM (#4642123)
How about first hand testimony? McNamee testified under oath he injected Clemens. Now, you may not care for McNamee and you may suspect he's lying but you cannot claim there is no shred of evidence. First hand accounts are certainly evidence.
   28. Mendo Posted: January 19, 2014 at 08:21 PM (#4642165)
Remember when they instituted testing between the 1973 and 1974 seasons...?

Bobby Bonds 1973-143, 1974-119
Cesar Cedeno 1973-152, 1974-127
Darrell Evans 1973-156, 1974-121
Ron Fairly 1973-142, 1974-115
Davey Johnson 1973-143, 1974-107
Greg Luzinski 1973-126, 1974-99
Garry Maddox 1973-120, 1974-97
John Mayberry 1973-146, 1974-120, (1975-168, 1976-94)
Thurman Munson 1973-142, 1974-101
Tony Perez 1973-159, 1974-121
Ken Singleton 1973-148, 1974-110
   29. Publius Publicola Posted: January 19, 2014 at 08:58 PM (#4642202)
They introduced steroids testing in 1973? Who knew?

   30. Best Regards, President of Comfort, Esq. Posted: January 20, 2014 at 12:10 AM (#4642438)
He was, of course, named in the Mitchell Report

Wasn't the evidence in the Mitchell Report also from McNamee? Meaning that it was determined not to be credible in the actual trail?


He was accused by McNamee, and as supporting evidence, he was also accused by McNamee.
   31. vivaelpujols Posted: January 20, 2014 at 01:25 AM (#4642458)
John, I'm not sure I'd use Giambi as an example to make your point. After the Balco scandal broke, his OPS+ otherwise inexplicably went from 148 to 90. Sosa also fell off the cliff overnight in the aftermath of his Congressiolal testimony. Melky hit for 157 OPS+, gets nailed, is suspended, and puts up an 88 the following year.

So yeah, they work. Big time.


My lord this is some stupid ####. Giambi followed that 94 wRC+ year (in 322 PA) with a 165 wRC+ and a 147 wRC+ the next two years (in over 1000 PA). Besides he was 36 years old by then.

   32. Jarrod HypnerotomachiaPoliphili(Teddy F. Ballgame) Posted: January 20, 2014 at 03:06 AM (#4642467)
Edgar Martinez 2003-141, 2004-92


Oh, now you've done it.
   33. Greg Pope thinks the Cubs are reeking havoc Posted: January 20, 2014 at 09:14 AM (#4642493)
He was accused by McNamee, and as supporting evidence, he was also accused by McNamee.

Yes, that's my point.
   34. Publius Publicola Posted: January 20, 2014 at 09:27 AM (#4642496)
The really stupid #### is believing Giambi wouldn't consider getting back on the juice to rescue his otherwise terminal career. Duh.
   35. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: January 20, 2014 at 10:21 AM (#4642504)
Wells 2003-132, 2004-105


96, 132, 105, 104, 129, 85, 123, 86, 125, 84, 90, 72

Yep, model of consistency Wells is.
   36. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: January 20, 2014 at 10:32 AM (#4642507)
The really stupid #### is believing Giambi wouldn't consider getting back on the juice to rescue his otherwise terminal career.


Why, he'd already signed a long-term contract worth an enormous amount of money. Plus he'd be in Bud's crosshairs as both a high-profile slugger with a previous failed test AND a member of the New York Yankees. Maybe you're thinking of one of George Mitchell's boys who may have had some additional leeway until such point as they annoyed management and got shipped out of town before failing tests left and right, a cautionary tale for any remaining players who like their milkshakes leaded.
   37. Random Transaction Generator Posted: January 20, 2014 at 10:55 AM (#4642523)
Why, he'd already signed a long-term contract worth an enormous amount of money. Plus he'd be in Bud's crosshairs as both a high-profile slugger with a previous failed test AND a member of the New York Yankees.


Wait...are you talking about Jason Giambi, or Alex Rodriguez here?
   38. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: January 20, 2014 at 10:58 AM (#4642527)
And how'd that work out for Rodriguez? Even passing every single test wasn't enough to save him from MLB openly bribing witnesses to incriminate him. Thanks for helping bolster my point - if Giambi was using anything more potent than whole milk Bud would move heaven and earth to capture his scalp. Remember, this was back during the wild west days when Bud's slush fund monies (i.e. Yankee Tax dough) was almost entirely unrestricted in use. He could have bribed hundreds of people with impunity.
   39. Publius Publicola Posted: January 20, 2014 at 11:09 AM (#4642538)
YR, your Yankee paranoia is showing again.
   40. Famous Original Joe C Posted: January 21, 2014 at 02:56 PM (#4643408)
Who let kevin back in here anyway? I can put him on ignore but it doesn't stop him from dominating every thread he steps in to. This place was better off when he was banned.

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