I'd also add that it's sheer self serving pap for Shooty to say that his agreement with me wasn't strong. Considering first that I told him my orders, and the orders for a standard Western Triple opening, and considering also how open I left myself to him and England. I mean, clearly I thought it was a strong relationship.

There was some confusion, then. Your moves into Burgundy made me unsure about you from the first move. Honestly, I don't know even what a standard Western Triple Opening is, all I knew is I had a French army right on top of Munich pinning me down there.

I did feel some remorse crossing the Channel like that, but it was fleeting.

And to be clear, it's my own fault for losing. So a fleeting sense of remorse is about right.

There was some confusion, then. Your moves into Burgundy made me unsure about you from the first move. Honestly, I don't know even what a standard Western Triple Opening is, all I knew is I had a French army right on top of Munich pinning me down there.

Well, that's why I sent you both the opening orders. So that there wouldn't be confusion. C'est la vie. I'm far less DeGaulle and far more Lebrun.

I did feel some remorse crossing the Channel like that, but it was fleeting.

I see what you did there.

Game 1 ("BTF Diplomacy Take 2")
http://www.playdiplomacy.com/game_play_details.php?game_id=48277
Austria: Arnett Mead
England: RTsquared (John R)
France: KaiserBrown (scott)
Germany: Petunia
Italy: Adward
Russia: Shooty
Turkey: GregK

Game 2 ("BTF Diplomacy #3")
http://www.playdiplomacy.com/game_play_details.php?game_id=48112
Austria: Juneyell replaced by LangerMonk
England: jigokumimi
France: whitebg
Germany: Gaelan
Italy: alansternberg
Russia: Snapper
Turkey: McCoy

Game 3 ("BTF Diplomacy III") (COMPLETED: 3-way DRAW)
http://www.playdiplomacy.com/game_play_details.php?game_id=48321
Austria: RTsquared
England: Langer Monk (WINNER)
France: KaiserBrown
Germany: Shooty (WINNER)
Italy: McCoy
Russia: Chris P
Turkey: Snapper (WINNER)

Game 4 ("BTF Diplomacy IV")
http://www.playdiplomacy.com/game_play_details.php?game_id=48769
Austria: jigokumimi
England: Petunia
France: McCoy replaced by Shooty
Germany: Snapper
Italy: Langer Monk
Russia: Arnett Mead
Turkey: RTsquared

Game 5 ("BTF V")
http://www.playdiplomacy.com/game_play_details.php?game_id=49099
Austria: RTsquared (again?!)
England: KaiserBrown
France: Shooty
Germany: Gaelan
Italy: wbelfield
Russia: LangerMonk
Turkey: Snapper

as it was my mistake in game 1 to have the same attitude about my alliance with Germany to work together until we finished off England. I've been a sap the past two games, which is frustrating.

I will have more to say about this (I'm the Germany mentioned) when that game is complete.

Well, that's why I sent you both the opening orders. So that there wouldn't be confusion. C'est la vie. I'm far less DeGaulle and far more Lebrun.

I think it was just an odd case of having know-nothings in the game with you working against you. It's all Russia's fault. If they hadn't moved Moscow to St. Pete I wouldn't have gotten paranoid because I figured they wouldn't make that move without an ally and, since I was sure that ally wasn't England, I figured it was France. I then asked Russia to let England have Norway in exchange for my not bouncing him in Sweden and then I bounced him anyway and England was able to slide into Norway.

I will have more to say about this (I'm the Germany mentioned) when that game is complete.

Oh, I will too. You're the Andy Zaltzman of Diplomacy raconteurs.

Initially i planned for a lepanto but Austria's Hemming and hawing with it's fleet nixed that idea.

I'd say "guilty as charged", but it wasn't exactly hemming and hawing. I wasn't sure I could trust Italy, so I was hedging my bets. Come to find out, I really couldn't trust Italy *shrug*

After a few games, it's apparent I'm not much of a Diplomacy player. I'm just working on not taking things too personally *LOL*

I then asked Russia to let England have Norway in exchange for my not bouncing him in Sweden and then I bounced him anyway and England was able to slide into Norway.

This is one of the key moves that actually started a lot of this (again, my own humble amateur opinion). Shooty started it.

And, I'll fully cop to being a conservative player; though that shouldn't be a surprise to anyone who follows the politics threads ;-)

I'm probably less likely to win it all, but also less likely to get crushed early, than more aggressive players.

I NEVER would have been as trusting as Scott was as France.

This is one of the key moves that actually started a lot of this (again, my own humble amateur opinion). Shooty started it.

What was Russia up to? He seemed to make an aggressive move against everyone to start so he didn't get ANY centers...ever.

Oh, I will too. You're the Andy Zaltzman of Diplomacy raconteurs.

I have precisely zero idea what this could possibly mean.

What was Russia up to? He seemed to make an aggressive move against everyone to start so he didn't get ANY centers...ever.

I don't know what happened in the South, maybe snapper can enlighten us - but once he ended 01 with no builds, we turned on him like a zombie horde.

I don't know what happened in the South, maybe snapper can enlighten us - but once he ended 01 with no builds, we turned on him like a zombie horde.

He was definitely the red-headed step child, then. Fewer armies and what ones he had were too scattered to support each other. Going after him was a no-brainer.

I don't know what happened in the South, maybe snapper can enlighten us - but once he ended 01 with no builds, we turned on him like a zombie horde.

The initial plan was a Russia-Turkey Alliance, but Russia failed to secure his northern flank, and when Eng, Ger and Aus came after him, there was nothing I could do to save him, so I picked up some crumbs.

He was definitely the red-headed step child, then. Fewer armies and what ones he had were too scattered to support each other. Going after him was a no-brainer.

Yeah, I never imagined that he hadn't reached a deal with at least one, if not both, of England and Germany. I guess I need to ask more questions of my putative allies.

I thought I was going to be next on the menu, until I was able to strike up a deal with Germany.

What would be wrong with that?

Nothing. Again, I have no problem with alliances. I have issues with a game in which the goal becomes a draw rather quickly. I have no issues with two players declaring a draw after butting heads for a few years to no avail. I do have an issue with three people declaring a draw without even trying to win the game.

Come to find out, I really couldn't trust Italy *shrug*

Well you could have but once the winds changed I had my doubts about you. Plus despite the fact that I did plan on trying to carve you up after the first set of moves I ditched that plan and stayed loyal while you conspired with France to take Naples from me and then eventually Venice in your death throes.

My plan for carving Austria up was a plan I had out there to keep my options open. Russia and Turkey had allied and it was obvious that France and England had come to an agreement and at the very least England and Germany had come to an agreement. I had to pick a side to work with and I chose Russia and Turkey. Unfortunately Russia employed the octopus strategy and then dropped out of the game. A non-vacant Russia could have made things more interesting.

Plus despite the fact that I did plan on trying to carve you up after the first set of moves I ditched that plan and stayed loyal while you conspired with France to take Naples from me and then eventually Venice in your death throes.

You urged me to move to Naples, IIRC. And, when I tried (in vain) to get something together to stave off the 3-way, your response smacked of resignation, so I figured if you didn't care, I'd take what I could get.

In retrospect, I should have formed stronger alliances from the start instead of detentes and growing slowly. Maybe that way I could have survived being squeezed.

More stuff from England in Game III (this may get wordy):

France proposed the DMZ Channel to me first off; then brought Germany and I into a agreement to get two builds each. The German move to Ruhr and French move to Burgundy freaked themselves out (each wrote worried about the other's intentions). Russia and I agreed to split Scandavia, but their army from Moscow to St.Pete also found many messages to me about their intent to attack England. The bounce in Black Sea was the first of Russia's problems.

In the fall, Russia bounced again, and twice - Sweden and Rumania, leaving Austria one build, Turkey two, Russia none. France, Germany, England did what we agreed, and took 2 each. Italy took Tunisia.

Germany and I agreed we needed to go after Russia, the opportunity was too good. I offered Russia support into Sweden to overextend him, but instead Germany and England tried to flank Russia. We hit a snag when Russia bounced my army into Norway. Italy began to request my invasion into Normandy - we discussed that and since Italy could hold out until 03, I said I'd hit northern France by then. In the fall, I broke my agreement with France by dropping into the Channel, and German and English forces were bored and bounced in Holland (we didn't know if anyone would even notice). I took St.Pete and Germany took Sweden - we took a chance that Russia wouldn't support into Norway, but that wasn't the case. Didn't matter much as Germany worked with Austria to get to Warsaw, and Turkey kept Russia bottled up in the south. Italy and France danced, but the all-out assault left Paris entirely undefended. I think is about the time this board was enjoying the show.

Spring of 1903 brought an agreement to give Germany Norway (it was more easily defended) for his support into Brest and Paris (became unnecessary really). In addition, he'd take Marseilles while I moved into Iberia. Germany worked with Austria to move into Moscow, leaving open the later attack on Warsaw. Turkey finished off Russia. Italy and France danced around some more, but the north was caving in on France. Fall finished off those moves, but my start by moving into Mid-Atlantic was bounced by Italy, for some reason. Russia was dead, Austria was exposed, France was exposed, and Italy was fighting both.

The Spring we had co-ordinated a plan to take what was left of France, Italy and Austria. Germany sealed off French support as I moved into the Mid-Atlantic. Turkey took Greece, but otherwise defended as Germany stuck the knife in. The Fall was the biggest move, as Austria collapsed under the joint Turkish-German attack and I got my convoy on. Much of what was left was mopping up, with what I imagine are obvious moves. I wasn't in position to do much of anything else - until the end I was still flexing out my line of units. I messaged Germany about a possible continuation against Turkey, but he was satisfied. My only other option was to attack Germany - but the fronts were balanced and I don't still now see any set of circumstances that would have given me an opening against Germany.

You urged me to move to Naples, IIRC.

Yes, but I didn't urge you to work out a deal with France in which you were guaranteed Naples. I urged you to block France into Naples.

Hey McCoy,

There was a shoutbox question in Game #3 asking if you were still going to be active, given your tech woes.

I don't have tech woes. I have woes.

Game 3 is moving at a Posadaian pace, so if you can get back prior to the start of next week, you shouldn't be kicked. You are going to miss a build though. Any way you can pass your info on to someone else and have a proxy while you're away?

They're putting a truly awesome sub system into place where you can designate a specific player as your sub, the game shows up on their Active list for them to confirm, and they play your position until you click a button to retake the spot. It's oustanding. Should be in place today or tomorrow.

I've been reading Richard Sharpe's book on Diplomacy. It is very funny. This chapter on postal diplomacy is particularly amusing.

V started off interestingly. Either a lot of planned bouncing or a lot of early conflict.

They're putting a truly awesome sub system into place where you can designate a specific player as your sub, the game shows up on their Active list for them to confirm, and they play your position until you click a button to retake the spot. It's oustanding. Should be in place today or tomorrow.

Nice!

Finalize your orders, people!

I just checked out the two games I'm not in (take 2 and IV). Lots of craziness about in those games. I'd like to hear the inside story of what happened once they're over. For instance, how did it happen that Spain is still neutral in 1903?

That's actually quite a simple explanation which will be provided, as you noted, once the game is over.

Take 2 is really incredibly exciting right now.

By the by, the 'Name a substitute' feature is now live. I've paid for Premium now, so if anybody needs to take a week off I'm happy to fill in if desired.

It's funny, I had also just been checking out the two games that I'm not in (the two that you are, Gaelan), and had much the same reaction. It's almost ridiculous how interesting this game is; I'll even read random strangers' after game reports posted in the forum.

I read the order reports so I now know what happened. It would still be interesting to hear an insider perspective on what was happening at the time.

Apparently Germany wishes to be the puppet master.

Ah. I just figured how how Game IV ends.

Can I send someone an email through BBTF explaining what is going to happen, so that afterwards I can be hailed as a genius for having the entire board figured out by F04? Someone not connected to the game, naturally, who can be trusted to keep it to themselves til the game ends. Gaelan?

(this isn't some kind of ploy, everything inside the game itself is fair game, this is separate)

Ends in world domination?

Sure, send me an email. You have my address.

I know how Game IV ends.

With Turkey on the tip of three skewers, at least for me.

Just thinking that it is pretty odd that two of three games I'm not in are going to go right to the deadline today. I'm not sure why that is. Sometime later this week I should be able to start another game if anyone else is interested.

Game #3 is finally getting interesting.

Game #3 is finally getting interesting.

Indeed.

Gents, I'll be heading abroad on Friday and am unsure if I'll be able to access the game. Anyone want to sub for me for a week?

Looks like we had a surrender in BTF V.

Which games are you in, shooty?

Which games are you in, shooty?

Take 2 and BTF V.

Gents, I'll be heading abroad on Friday and am unsure if I'll be able to access the game. Anyone want to sub for me for a week?

I'll sub for you in V, Shooty. I'm dead.

Someone just has to tell me how to surrender as Turkey.

Thanks snapper. I'm just about out the door now but let's work out the kinks tomorrow. I'll feel you in on all the strategeries and such.

Thanks snapper. I'm just about out the door now but let's work out the kinks tomorrow. I'll feel you in on all the strategeries and such.

Sounds like a plan. And we need to plan drinks for Nov, when I can finally get out of the f-ing house.

Someone just has to tell me how to surrender as Turkey.

Under the statistics dropdown.

Anybody want to take over for me as Austria in IV?
I'm just not keeping up with online Diplomacy - which is no fun for me, nor my game-mates, neither.

Took over as England in game V. Don't expect to last long as it appears the world is coming after England. Just gotta say that some people take this game way more personal than I ever expected they should.

Just gotta say that some people take this game way more personally than I ever expected they should.

Really? That's bizarre.

Seriously, though: anybody? Anybody?

Anybody want to take over for me as Austria in IV?
I'm just not keeping up with online Diplomacy

That could explain it.

I'd offer, but seeing as how I'm playing England in that game, might not go over all that well...

Seriously, though: anybody? Anybody?

Maybe you should do a shoutbox message in the 3 other games.

Just gotta say that some people take this game way more personal than I ever expected they should.

I think treating every move against me as a personal attack and responding by threatening everyone in the most belligerent way possible is a big part of the fun. I haven't actually been angry at any of the people I've threatened or insulted (including you, McCoy), and I'd hope the other people playing feel similarly.

Anybody want to take over for me as Austria in IV?
I'm just not keeping up with online Diplomacy - which is no fun for me, nor my game-mates, neither.

I'm willing to do it - I'm user whitebg. Not sure if I have to do anything right now, or if you have to resign or what not.

I think treating every move against me as a personal attack and responding by threatening everyone in the most belligerent way possible is a big part of the fun. I haven't actually been angry at any of the people I've threatened or insulted (including you, McCoy), and I'd hope the other people playing feel similarly.

For what its worth, I haven't been thinking anything of it. In fact, it's lent a certain realism to the proceedings. I kind of think it is fun that each nation I deal with is clearly being run by a different person with a different personality. And if some of those personalities aren't real, well that's fun too.

I'm willing to do it - I'm user whitebg. Not sure if I have to do anything right now, or if you have to resign or what not.

Fred Lynn... has to appoint you as his sub.

I'm willing to do it - I'm user whitebg. Not sure if I have to do anything right now, or if you have to resign or what not.

You are the appointed sub! I'll send you a PM, too, to make sure you see this. Glad to fill you in on whatever I can, if you care.

You are the appointed sub! I'll send you a PM, too, to make sure you see this. Glad to fill you in on whatever I can, if you care.

Sweet, I'm in! Got your PM, too, thanks. Its a lot easier to read a short summary, than to dig through weeks of old messages, in order to figure out who your friends are.

I've proposed a possibly somewhat premature draw in Take 2. Russia and Turkey can't survive (well, barring a massive breakdown in relations between the attacking players), and England has missed a couple of turns recently and may have lost interest. I thought it might be the sporting thing to do to give everyone a way to simply wrap things up rather than drag it out.

Anyway, it's vote-able for those of us still in that game. Germany/Italy/Austria. No pressure, of course, if anyone wants to continue for ANY reason (or no reason at all), that's obviously fine too.

EDIT: Looking in on other games, it seems that RTSquared may need to be replaced. He's missed turns in at least 2 games in the last few days.

Didn't RTSquared give orders in the Take2 Game? He's eliminated in Game IV.

Didn't RTSquared give orders in the Take2 Game? He's eliminated in Game IV.

No, he missed the build phase and has NMR'd 2 of the last 3 turns in Take 2 (as England). He's eliminated in Game IV and NMR'd last turn (as Austria) in Game V.

World domination through absenteeism! I guess it really is true, half the battle is just showing up.

You guys have been playing Diplomacy here? And here I thought you were arguing about the death penalty or gun control or Pavement.

We do that inside the game.

Can someone who hasn't brutally stabbed him send RTsquared an email to see what his deal is?

Yep, a build of all things is being dragged out until Monday because he hasn't finalized his orders. I don't know what the reason is in #3.