Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Monday, August 23, 2010

Manley: Does Good Pitching “Always” Beat Good Hitting?

Dan Plesac rethinks lifelong stance. Shifts weight to other leg. Resumes yammering.

Barring some sort of nuclear science analysis, the obvious way to look at it is to say this. The midpoint between the two is .787. If the hitters are above .787 versus these pitchers, then good hitting beats good pitching. If they are below .787, then it is the other way around.

Naturally, there is only one way to find out – monotonous work! There is no easy way to do this. I did it with the least amount of pain possible, but it still requires looking at each player and his stats against each pitcher. That’s 400 potential match-ups.

It’s also true that it represents 1,753 plate appearances. That’s a healthy number and goes a long ways toward eliminating any sample-size issues. It’s roughly equivalent to three seasons for a player if he went to the plate every time against the same pitcher.

...The point here is not so much whether 2.16% could just as easily be -2.16%, it’s about whether or not good pitching beats good hitting. As I said already, this doesn’t prove it one way or the other. It’s just a study. But, in lieu of any other objective evidence known to man, one would say the adage is false.

In theory, I would have the top-20 hitters versus the top-20 pitchers every year. That would tend to prove it one way or the other. But, it’s also a month of work and that’s not going to happen. Therefore, I am going to try to determine another way to evaluate it. I have an idea.

Repoz Posted: August 23, 2010 at 11:58 AM | 9 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: history, sabermetrics

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. Pat Rapper's Delight Posted: August 23, 2010 at 01:05 PM (#3623199)
Good pitching will always beat good hitting. And vice versa.
   2. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: August 23, 2010 at 01:40 PM (#3623226)
I like Manley's Cool Factoid sidebars, especially this one:

Cubs manager, Lou Piniella, lost his last game 16-5 to Atlanta. His first game this season was a 16-5 loss to Atlanta.
   3. TomH Posted: August 23, 2010 at 02:15 PM (#3623257)
This has been studied extensively before. When I get to my home I can send at least two links to published analyses, both with large sample sizes. They both concluded that results of good pitching vs good hitting are exactly what the predictive math esxpects.
   4. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: August 23, 2010 at 02:15 PM (#3623260)
Cubs manager, Lou Piniella, lost his last game 16-5 to Atlanta. His first game this season was a 16-5 loss to Atlanta.

Now that's a steady hand.
   5. hokieneer Posted: August 23, 2010 at 02:36 PM (#3623280)
Isn't this myth derived from great starters shutting down playoff caliber lineups in October? I believe the weather plays a part in that; it's harder to swing a bat in colder temperatures.
   6. TomH Posted: August 23, 2010 at 02:58 PM (#3623299)
EGGS actly!
   7. TomH Posted: August 23, 2010 at 02:59 PM (#3623301)
AND the fact that if your lineup is 1 r/g better than avg, you won't be 1 r/g better vs Mariano and Pedro; it's proportional, not additive.
   8. Karl from NY Posted: August 23, 2010 at 06:30 PM (#3623636)
The top ERA+ team went 385-395.

The top ERA+ team had a collective OPS+ of 100.8. The top OPS+ team had a collective ERA+ of 101.1.


Is the 10-win difference explainable by that, that the best hitting team had slightly better pitching than the best pitching team had hitting?

Also, which way does the causation go? Maybe the top OPS+ team has a slightly above average ERA+ because they have a lead more often, so pitch more innings with the closer, and fewer garbage innings by the back end of the staff?

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Shooty Is Disappointed With His Midstream Urine
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogOT: Politics - December 2014: Baseball & Politics Collide in New Thriller
(5218 - 7:41am, Dec 22)
Last: Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip

NewsblogThe right — and wrong — way for Mets to get Tulowitzki | New York Post
(15 - 7:40am, Dec 22)
Last: Lassus

NewsblogThe 2015 HOF Ballot Collecting Gizmo!
(180 - 7:38am, Dec 22)
Last: Chris Fluit

Hall of Merit2015 Hall of Merit Ballot
(97 - 7:24am, Dec 22)
Last: adarowski

NewsblogOT: NFL/NHL thread
(9272 - 7:19am, Dec 22)
Last: Russ

NewsblogRuben Amaro Jr. says it would be best if Phillies move on from Ryan Howard
(47 - 3:26am, Dec 22)
Last:     Hey Gurl

NewsblogA Salute to Sy Berger, From a Card-Carrying Fan - NYTimes.com
(5 - 3:26am, Dec 22)
Last: vortex of dissipation

NewsblogDetermining Hall vote is no easy task | New York Post
(29 - 11:40pm, Dec 21)
Last: SoSHially Unacceptable

NewsblogJUNICHI TAZAWA & CULTURE OF DENIAL
(4 - 11:37pm, Dec 21)
Last: Steve Parris, Je t'aime

NewsblogOT: Monthly NBA Thread - December 2014
(776 - 11:33pm, Dec 21)
Last: The District Attorney

NewsblogMarty Noble's HOF Ballot
(45 - 11:32pm, Dec 21)
Last: bobm

NewsblogThe Yankees’ plan in case A-Rod can’t play at all
(25 - 10:12pm, Dec 21)
Last: Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site

NewsblogOT: Soccer December 2014
(344 - 9:50pm, Dec 21)
Last: Mefisto

Hall of MeritHerman Long
(11 - 9:22pm, Dec 21)
Last: Joey Numbaz (Scruff)

NewsblogThe Jeff Jacobs HOF Ballot: Keep The Voting Serious And Fair
(55 - 9:14pm, Dec 21)
Last: Ron J

Page rendered in 0.1717 seconds
48 querie(s) executed