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Monday, September 23, 2013

Manny Machado carted off field with left knee injury

Orioles third baseman Manny Machado was carted off the field with an apparent left knee injury after running through the first base bag awkwardly on Monday afternoon.

Machado was in obvious pain and spent several minutes on the ground with the trainer. He was eventually carted off the field.

Since breaking into the big leagues last August, the 21-year-old Machado has started all 207 of the team’s games at third base. He’s been an ironman.

In 155 games coming into Monday, Machado has hit .282/.313/.431 (99 OPS+) with 14 home runs and a league-leading 51 doubles.

Repoz Posted: September 23, 2013 at 06:54 PM | 102 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: orioles

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   1. Best Regards, President of Comfort, Esq. Posted: September 23, 2013 at 06:57 PM (#4548696)
This is awful, awful, awful.
   2. jdennis Posted: September 23, 2013 at 07:00 PM (#4548707)
hopefully this won't affect his defense going forward
   3. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: September 23, 2013 at 07:02 PM (#4548711)
Well, that sucks. Hope he can make a full recovery.
   4. Shooty Is Disappointed With His Midstream Urine Posted: September 23, 2013 at 07:05 PM (#4548715)
Just crossing my fingers it's not as bad as it looked.
   5. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 23, 2013 at 07:26 PM (#4548724)
How bad did it look?

   6. President of the David Eckstein Fan Club Posted: September 23, 2013 at 07:27 PM (#4548728)
It looked really bad (and MASN helpfully replayed it several times)
   7. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: September 23, 2013 at 07:31 PM (#4548729)
Never like to see a young kid go down like this. Barring Bryce Harper, of course. This looks something like what happened to Chipper Jones in the last game of spring training, 1994. He missed all of 1994 but came back in 1995 and put together a reasonably good career.
   8. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: September 23, 2013 at 07:31 PM (#4548730)
There's a gif in the link ...
   9. Best Regards, President of Comfort, Esq. Posted: September 23, 2013 at 07:32 PM (#4548736)
Stay classy, Sam.
   10. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 23, 2013 at 07:33 PM (#4548737)
Thanks #8. Looked at the gif. But it seems hard to tell what happened from the gif.
   11. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: September 23, 2013 at 07:34 PM (#4548739)
That was classy! I'm feeling your Oriole pain! I'm empathizing. I'm telling you he should be back and still have a great career. Jesus.
   12. Bhaakon Posted: September 23, 2013 at 07:36 PM (#4548740)
From the gif, it looks like the enormous protective piece immobilized his ankle and transferred all the force to his knee.
   13. President of the David Eckstein Fan Club Posted: September 23, 2013 at 07:37 PM (#4548741)

Thanks #8. Looked at the gif. But it seems hard to tell what happened from the gif.


Low quality video (if you really want to see it) here.
   14. Best Regards, President of Comfort, Esq. Posted: September 23, 2013 at 08:08 PM (#4548762)
From the gif, it looks like the enormous protective piece immobilized his ankle and transferred all the force to his knee.
Is this ironic?
   15. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: September 23, 2013 at 08:10 PM (#4548764)
holy crap, this is awful. One of the truly exciting young players in the game (he terrorized the Yanks!)

let's just hope it's not as bad as it seems.
   16. Depressoteric feels Royally blue these days Posted: September 23, 2013 at 08:14 PM (#4548765)
Just crap. Baseball will break your heart like this. Here's hoping Machado isn't seriously hurt, or that he comes back better than ever if he is.
   17. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: September 23, 2013 at 08:17 PM (#4548767)
Since breaking into the big leagues last August, the 21-year-old Machado has started all 207 of the team’s games at third base. He’s been an ironman.


Here's something about Machado I just realized: Before his injury this afternoon, he hadn't missed a single inning since he first came up on August 9, 2012. We may have been looking at the new Cal in more ways than one.
   18. DKDC Posted: September 23, 2013 at 08:22 PM (#4548770)
Man, this is just a dagger-twisting way to end a really disappointing season.
   19. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: September 23, 2013 at 08:26 PM (#4548773)
Well this sucks. Hopefully he'll be OK at some point.
   20. AROM Posted: September 23, 2013 at 08:28 PM (#4548774)
Manny hasn't played every inning, he got ejected in one game. He's played every game though. Seeing young Ripken in him is easy. Just goes to show how improbable Cal's streak was.
   21. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: September 23, 2013 at 08:39 PM (#4548780)
Huge bummer, hopes for a full recovery.

However, this is precisely why after just 2 seasons you don't ever suggest a player can be the greatest anything...it's like they jinxed the poor guy.
   22. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: September 23, 2013 at 08:45 PM (#4548784)
Manny hasn't played every inning, he got ejected in one game. He's played every game though. Seeing young Ripken in him is easy. Just goes to show how improbable Cal's streak was.

You're right, my bad. All those CGs in his game logs just ran together in one big blur and the GSs got hidden in the mix. And in fact he was also removed in the 9th inning of two lopsided losses.
   23. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: September 23, 2013 at 09:45 PM (#4548824)
Thanks #8. Looked at the gif. But it seems hard to tell what happened from the gif.

I'd put money on a torn ACL. Every time I've seen somebody's knee go sideways like that mid-run, that's always been the result.
   24. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: September 23, 2013 at 09:56 PM (#4548834)

I don't know what it was, but it looked very painful. Your knee is not supposed to bend that way.
   25. Everybody Loves Tyrus Raymond Posted: September 23, 2013 at 10:21 PM (#4548851)
The injury wasn't that impressive. Any competent Major League third baseman could blow his knee out like that.
   26. Bourbon Samurai Posted: September 23, 2013 at 10:36 PM (#4548890)
I'd put money on a torn ACL. Every time I've seen somebody's knee go sideways like that mid-run, that's always been the result.


Yeah, that's what it looked like to me. Yeesh. I was having some sushi and I saw people freaking out in the gamechatter thread, so I popped over to a sports bar. The little crowd watching the O's game looked shellshocked.

Fortunately, MASN made sure to replay the injury right after the Loney walk-off just to really twist the knife good.
   27. Enrico Pallazzo Posted: September 23, 2013 at 10:54 PM (#4548927)
Yeah, that's gotta be an ACL tear. You can kiss the otherworldly range goodbye, and possibly the entire 2014 season as well. I'm gonna bet he never returns to SS after this, either.

What a devastating injury. He's still only 21, so we'll be seeing him again, but this season will be one for the history books in more ways than one.
   28. Depressoteric feels Royally blue these days Posted: September 23, 2013 at 11:00 PM (#4548944)
MLB.com now saying he's done for the season. I fear the worst. Dammit, the baseball gods are fickle.
   29. Depressoteric feels Royally blue these days Posted: September 23, 2013 at 11:01 PM (#4548946)
Yeah, that's gotta be an ACL tear. You can kiss the otherworldly range goodbye, and possibly the entire 2014 season as well.
I know this almost certainly wasn't your intention, but this can't help but come off as far too conclusory and thus a little jerky. And I'm not even really an Orioles fan. Why don't you give it some time?
   30. Enrico Pallazzo Posted: September 23, 2013 at 11:15 PM (#4548975)
I know this almost certainly wasn't your intention, but this can't help but come off as far too conclusory and thus a little jerky. And I'm not even really an Orioles fan. Why don't you give it some time?


'Cause I'm grieving, damn it!
   31. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: September 23, 2013 at 11:26 PM (#4548981)
Yeah, that's gotta be an ACL tear. You can kiss the otherworldly range goodbye, and possibly the entire 2014 season as well. I'm gonna bet he never returns to SS after this, either.

What a devastating injury. He's still only 21, so we'll be seeing him again, but this season will be one for the history books in more ways than one.


I just hope they don't try to rush him back like Griffin was rushed back by the Redskins, and I don't mean just in last year's playoff game. Let the knee get fully healed before putting him out there again, even if it takes a year.
   32. McCoy Posted: September 23, 2013 at 11:29 PM (#4548983)
Orioles, meet your new first baseman.
   33. Gamingboy Posted: September 24, 2013 at 12:19 AM (#4548999)
Why Why Why Why Why Why Why Why Why Why Why Why Why Why Why Why Why Why
   34. Rafael Bellylard: Built like a Panda. Posted: September 24, 2013 at 12:23 AM (#4549001)
Let's all hang on a bit before we declare Machado, and his range, dead and gone for 2014 and points beyond. We don't know for sure if it's his ACL (although it seems like a reasonable conclusion). We also don't know if it's torn, shredded or merely sprained.

As far as being out for the season; big deal. What's left? 5 games? 6? A badly ingrown toenail could be season-ending at this point.

I'm going through some ACL trauma right now. Injured it last Sunday. Saw the doc last week, had an MRI Friday and will get the results Thursday. When he did the initial exam, he used the dreaded "s" word after manipulating my knee, but fact is until we see the MRI, we don't know.
   35. SoSH U at work Posted: September 24, 2013 at 12:44 AM (#4549007)
Adrian Peterson's 2012 makes it clear that a player can return to full health from a torn ACL.*

* Spoken by the father of young SoSHette, currently on the mend from ACL surgery that took away her freshman year of varsity soccer, and a man who desperately has to believe she'll be fully recovered for the 2014 campaign. I hope the same for Mr. Machado.
   36. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 24, 2013 at 01:25 AM (#4549014)
Will Carroll, writing in November, 2004:

Over the last few weeks, baseball has instead had a rash of anterior cruciate ligament injuries. Torn ligaments are certainly not new in baseball, yet the clustering of these injuries is new. Since the start of September, Adam Kennedy, Jason Kubel, Carlos Guillen, Jody Gerut, and now Rocco Baldelli and Lance Berkman have fallen victim. As with most injuries, the surgery to repair a torn ACL has gotten less invasive with a shorter rehab period. However, this is still a procedure that is done "open"--with a scalpel rather than an arthroscope--and that has significant short- and long-term consequences. Depending on the severity of the tear and the complexities of the repair, a player can come back in six to 12 months. Giving hope to some of these players are the recent cases of Corey Patterson, Javy Lopez, and Mike Lieberthal. Patterson's return from a June Grade II tear in just eight months is most encouraging for a "speed player" like Baldelli.

The recovery of these players depends on many factors--degree of tearing, condition of the knee and surrounding muscles, general physical conditioning, work ethic in rehab, and the type of player and skill set they possessed before the injury. It is also important to note if there is other ligament or cartilage damage, a common collateral injury. Kubel seems to have the most extensive damage, involving at least one other ligament and his patellar tendon. Speed players, as well as those who rely on lateral motion, will be more likely to take longer to recover function. For those of you setting fantasy keepers, expecting a full season from any of these players is pure folly. Expecting normal production from them once they return is reasonable.


Scanning that list of players, all of them seemed to return to normal, although I haven't checked their speed/defense numbers.

Two more names to add to the list are Jason Castro (2009, still catching) and Gallardo (2008).
   37. Sunday silence Posted: September 24, 2013 at 01:30 AM (#4549015)
It was hard to tell from the GIF, but it didnt seem to twist all that much. I think a mere sprain is also possible. Hopefully.

EDIT: he did go down hard though. gee.
   38. boteman Posted: September 24, 2013 at 01:36 AM (#4549022)
As a side note, my personal emphasis on "natural" body building is that accelerants like HGH and anabolic steroids grow the muscle more rapidly, but the tendons and ligaments attaching those muscles to the bone don't come along for the speed run. I would guess that this makes tearing ligaments more likely from the regular motions of play on account of the greater forces exerted by the disproportionately massive muscle.*

Manny is a joy to watch at 3B so I hope he makes a full recovery to his proven level of play.

* I fully appreciate that in this case Manny's leg was apparently injured by the freak action of his cleat twisting his foot or just poor placement of his foot fall crossing the bag.
   39. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: September 24, 2013 at 01:37 AM (#4549023)
In spring training 1994, Chipper Jones tore his left ACL.

And he was never heard from again. :(
   40. CFBF Is A Golden Spider Duck Posted: September 24, 2013 at 01:46 AM (#4549029)
Hell, you don't have to go back to Chipper's early days for this. He tore his ACL in a late season game against Houston in 2010, as a 38-year-old, and was ready for opening day in 2011.

Granted, Chipper didn't have much range or mobility to lose by that point.
   41. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 24, 2013 at 01:47 AM (#4549030)
And he was never heard from again. :(


I see the sarcasm, but the question is not whether Machado will return. It's:

1. Can he return to play SS or 3B? (I think yes)
2. Can he return to be a grade A fielder? (Questionable)
3. Can he return without losing speed? (Doubtful)

Chipper was lousy defensively at 3B, IIRC, though I'm not sure how good he was pre-1994.
   42. Barnaby Jones Posted: September 24, 2013 at 02:58 AM (#4549044)
Chipper was not lousy at 3B. He was basically the definition of cromulent, putting up -15 runs (b-ref) over 16 seasons at 3B.

Before the injury he was a SS.
   43. Robert in Manhattan Beach Posted: September 24, 2013 at 03:01 AM (#4549045)
This is obviously bad, but guys recover from stuff like this all the time these days. He's got a good chance to pick up where he left off.

14 HR and 51 doubles and still under 100 OPS+? I would have thought that impossible outside Coors. He really hates Ball 4.
   44. Dr. Vaux Posted: September 24, 2013 at 03:11 AM (#4549050)
Has UZR been accounting for the Orioles shift where Machado played shallow right field? If not, that "otherwordly range" might be slightly more worldly.

Obviously he has to do the recovering and rehab, but signs point to him coming back at full strength. Even RGIII will eventually, or would if he wasn't going to get re-injured. The problem there is that he should be still rehabbing for the first few weeks of the season, but the team, him, and the media insist he play. That wouldn't happen with Machado. If he's not ready at the start of next season, he won't step on the field till he is.
   45. Everybody Loves Tyrus Raymond Posted: September 24, 2013 at 03:12 AM (#4549051)
He'll be fine. It's 2013, they aren't going to operate on him with leeches. Adrian Peterson ran for over 2,000 yards on a surgically repaired knee last year. That's harder than trying to be Graig Nettles.
   46. DKDC Posted: September 24, 2013 at 07:29 AM (#4549066)
I'm not that worried about his immediate recovery - odds are good that by 2015 he'll have the same quickness and range of motion, although he could easily miss the start of 2014 and show some lingering effects all season.

I'm more worried about the fact that the injury happened so easily - it didn't look like he really landed all that awkwardly or put that much sideways force on his knee. It was actually pretty similar to the final RGIII injury where the play where he finally tore his ligament was pretty innocuous, but he had obviously done some serious damage previously.

So had Machado already injured that knee and was still playing in a meaningless September game? Or does he have a propensity for this type of thing due to bone or ligament structure. Or am I wrong and it was just a freak thing where there was just enough force at just the right angle to topple the whole jenga tower of his knee?
   47. bunyon Posted: September 24, 2013 at 07:54 AM (#4549072)
He'll be fine. It's 2013, they aren't going to operate on him with leeches. Adrian Peterson ran for over 2,000 yards on a surgically repaired knee last year. That's harder than trying to be Graig Nettles.

It's worth pointing out that Peterson is a better comp than Chipper. Different sports and position demands but close in time. Chipper's surgery and rehab was 20 years ago. We've come a long way in treating ACL tears in the last 20 years.

Anyway, he is 21, of course he's going to lose speed. Speed peaks early.
   48. Rants Mulliniks Posted: September 24, 2013 at 08:05 AM (#4549076)
Looking at that its hard to tell how it even happened. I'm not one to subject myself to those kinds of sequences over and over, but it didn't even look like he mis-planted his foot. It like his knee just came unhinged out of the blue.

Overall he had a decent year with the bat, but his second half was brutal - .240/.277/.370.
   49. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: September 24, 2013 at 09:39 AM (#4549133)
Looking at that its hard to tell how it even happened. I'm not one to subject myself to those kinds of sequences over and over, but it didn't even look like he mis-planted his foot. It like his knee just came unhinged out of the blue.

I think that the MASN announcer said that his shin protector got stuck under the base and his whole body kind of fell on his knee. I couldn't bear to watch the replay.
   50. Bitter Mouse Posted: September 24, 2013 at 09:49 AM (#4549145)
It's worth pointing out that Peterson is a better comp than Chipper.


As a Vikings fan I may be a homer, but AP is such a freak I am not sure he is a good comp for anyone.
   51. RMc is a fine piece of cheese Posted: September 24, 2013 at 10:06 AM (#4549159)
I saw that and I grabbed my knee. Yeowch!
   52. bunyon Posted: September 24, 2013 at 10:13 AM (#4549167)
Mouse, sure. I just mean drawing conclusions based on chipper really isn't medically relevant. I wouldn't expect many people to recover as quickly as AP but I would expect most to recover as completely.

Young elite athletes, that is. I tear my acl, I'll hope to walk again.
   53. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: September 24, 2013 at 10:14 AM (#4549170)
If this was caused by a shin protector, that's a pretty poor tradeoff.
   54. Squash Posted: September 24, 2013 at 10:43 AM (#4549193)
It looks like a knee dislocation, which probably means ACL/MCL. That being said, this isn't the 90s anymore (or the 80s, or 70s). Athletes can come back pretty darn effectively from ligament injuries - it's like Tommy John in baseball. Big deal in 1992, not quite the same in 2013.
   55. Tom T Posted: September 24, 2013 at 10:56 AM (#4549209)
We've come a long way in treating ACL tears in the last 20 years.


Anybody know which surgeon the Orioles are likely to use? If you see the name "Shelbourne" coming up, RUN AWAY! (He's the guy who does an autograft rather than the ex-plant. There really is no evidence this approach is better, but it is touted as "allowing" a more rapid return to play (we argue that this is due to having both knees a bit weak, so there is no favoring a "weak" leg...not that it actually leads to stronger knees; cf. Robbie Hummel of Purdue basketball).
   56. Enrico Pallazzo Posted: September 24, 2013 at 11:12 AM (#4549229)
Someone save this thread. I'd love to be proven wrong, I really would.
   57. boteman Posted: September 24, 2013 at 11:32 AM (#4549253)
Notwithstanding the superior medical attention that MLB money can bring to bear on repairing and rehabbing Manny's knee, a friend of a friend just went back in the hospital a month after his knee surgical site became badly infected. He must not have known anything was up because he went in for a routine post-operative checkup and they admitted him emergency-style. Scared the crap out of me how it went from nothing to life-threatening in a heartbeat.

Conclusion: surgery is never "routine".
   58. Publius Publicola Posted: September 24, 2013 at 11:34 AM (#4549257)
Re:#36. I just had my right ACL reconstructed. It was done arthroscopic ally. However, because of my age, my surgeon used a cadaver replacement tendon. In Machado's case, I suspect he will opt to use a portion of his patellar tendon to reconstruct. That will lengthen his recovery some. I think the injury will rob a little of his speed but I doubt it will affect his quickness much, if the rehab goes well. I expect to see him play next year.
   59. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: September 24, 2013 at 11:54 AM (#4549277)
Hell, you don't have to go back to Chipper's early days for this. He tore his ACL in a late season game against Houston in 2010, as a 38-year-old, and was ready for opening day in 2011.


This is notable because in 1994 you had to have a live ligament from the same body, more or less. In 2010 they replaced Chipper's blown up ligament with the ligament of a cadaver. Which is why we referred to him as Zombie Chipper that year.

Chipper was not lousy at 3B. He was basically the definition of cromulent, putting up -15 runs (b-ref) over 16 seasons at 3B.

Before the injury he was a SS.


You are right that he was never that bad at 3B. Not a lot of range, but good coverage to his right and excellent on coming in on balls on the grass. Needed coverage by rangey SS up the middle, which the Braves were happy to provide. Chipper's defense is universally underrated because BPro's (terrible, no good, very bad) first generation defensive metrics said he was the worst defensive 3B in history (because Tom Glavine and Greg Maddux induced ground balls to SS and 2B rather than 3B.)

You are off a little on the "was a SS" before the injury. He was, technically, but he was going to make the Majors as a LF in 1994. His late spring ACL tear gave Ryan Klesko a spot in Atlanta instead. He had been moved off of SS prior to the injury, not because of a bad knee, but because he made throwing errors by the boatload.
   60. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: September 24, 2013 at 12:04 PM (#4549286)
Re:#36. I just had my right ACL reconstructed. It was done arthroscopic ally. However, because of my age, my surgeon used a cadaver replacement tendon.

That's a nice way of putting it. Makes me wonder whether some of those zombies in The Night of the Living Dead might have made out better if they'd had access to modern surgery.
   61. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: September 24, 2013 at 12:07 PM (#4549293)
If this was caused by a shin protector, that's a pretty poor tradeoff.

Yeah, definitely in this case, but God knows how many injuries those things may prevent. The real cause seems to have been that he changed his stride when he saw the second baseman muff the ball, and that slight slowdown caused his foot to hit the base in an awkward manner, on the front of it instead of on the top.
   62. SteveF Posted: September 24, 2013 at 12:11 PM (#4549299)
The MRI is reportedly being done at 1pm eastern.
   63. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 24, 2013 at 12:14 PM (#4549302)
This is notable because in 1994 you had to have a live ligament from the same body, more or less. In 2010 they replaced Chipper's blown up ligament with the ligament of a cadaver.


And this differs in any meaningful way from PED use... how? If it were his own ligament it would have been one thing. But the ligament from the cadaver meant that he needed outside help.
   64. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: September 24, 2013 at 12:17 PM (#4549304)
And this differs in any meaningful way from PED use... how? If it were his own ligament it would have been one thing. But the ligament from the cadaver meant that he needed outside help.


Preaching to the choir, here. We're not that far away from synthetic replacement ligaments, rather than harvesting the ligaments of dead men. So in a decade or so, when some pitcher is throwing after "Tommy John surgery" but where they replace the blown up elbow ligament with a lab-grown synthetic, or someone has that in their knee...

But you know, "steroids are unnatural, man."
   65. SandyRiver Posted: September 24, 2013 at 12:23 PM (#4549310)
As a Vikings fan I may be a homer, but AP is such a freak I am not sure he is a good comp for anyone.


How about Wes Welker? (As a Pats homer, I can say this now that he's moved west.) His late December ACL/MCL tear came without his being hit, and he was at training camp the next July and on the field for the regular season opener.
   66. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: September 24, 2013 at 12:25 PM (#4549312)
As a Vikings fan I may be a homer, but AP is such a freak I am not sure he is a good comp for anyone.


How about Wes Welker?


Neither of those guys are good comps, because the NFL turns a blind eye to certain rehab options that MLB seems to be really hung up on these days.
   67. SoSH U at work Posted: September 24, 2013 at 12:28 PM (#4549316)
And this differs in any meaningful way from PED use... how?


The one way I can think is that people with healthy knees don't call up the underground cadaver clinic to have the surgery performed on the sly. The use being restricted to already damaged players is one way it differs from amp use.


   68. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 24, 2013 at 12:40 PM (#4549321)
A snippet from Joe Sheehan's newsletter:

All we can do is hope that Manny Machado, in a second, in less than a second, did not have the course of his career changed forever.

...Losing him at the end of a devastating weekend for the Orioles in Florida is the bookend to a season that saw Bundy throw zero competitive pitches and undergo Tommy John surgery.

Let's be clear about what Machado is, however. After a first half that established him as an AL MVP candidate, the flaws in his game showed up in the second half. Since the All-Star break, Machado has hit .240/.277/.370. His poor OBP -- while batting first or second for the Orioles every single day -- was a significant contributor to the team's problems on offense. His pursuit of the doubles record, a story for about ten minutes in June, dwindled as he hit just 12 two-baggers after the break. He drew just 13 walks in 285 plate appearances, a rate you can't get away with unless you're hitting for average and power. Machado's September was going poorly: .194/.225/.306 with three walks in 103 PAs. A complete player in the first half, Machado was little more than a glove in the second. For a 21-year-old, though, Machado is a very good player. His .283/.314/.432 line marks him as a league-average hitter, and he's one of the best defensive players in baseball. Absent the injury, he would have been projected to take a step forward in 2014. Now, all we can do is wait.


   69. Publius Publicola Posted: September 24, 2013 at 12:42 PM (#4549322)
Surgery to repair an injury is therapeutic. PEDS taken by a perfectly healthy human being is not.
   70. Best Regards, President of Comfort, Esq. Posted: September 24, 2013 at 12:49 PM (#4549326)
Has UZR been accounting for the Orioles shift where Machado played shallow right field? If not, that "otherwordly range" might be slightly more worldly.


You can see the otherworldly range with your eyes. When it's that obvious, you know it's special.
   71. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 24, 2013 at 12:55 PM (#4549334)
Surgery to repair an injury is therapeutic. PEDS taken by a perfectly healthy human being is not.


Well, that leaves McGwire in the clear. He said he took them to help his recovery from injuries, so that he could take the field.

The sainted Pettitte as well.

   72. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: September 24, 2013 at 01:00 PM (#4549343)
Surgery to repair an injury is therapeutic. PEDS taken by a perfectly healthy human being is not.


Mmmmm. Arbitrary lines between "therapy" and "not." Can you read my Tarot next?
   73. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: September 24, 2013 at 01:07 PM (#4549348)
How about people with healthy eyeballs using lasers on them?
   74. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: September 24, 2013 at 01:08 PM (#4549351)
He said he took them to help his recovery from injuries, so that he could take the field.

Yeah. He lied. (*)

He could have gotten them from a doctor if he really needed them to recover from injuries.

(*) Why did he lie? He lied because there always has been, and remains, a cultural stigma within the sport affixed to roiders. Cf. amps, where the difference is obvious -- open use, use by several dozen MLBers in 2013. This is really simple stuff. It's only complicated by those with an interest in complicating it.
   75. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 24, 2013 at 01:17 PM (#4549361)
It's only complicated by those with an interest in complicating it.


I fully agree, Physician.
   76. Fred Lynn Nolan Ryan Sweeney Agonistes Posted: September 24, 2013 at 01:35 PM (#4549379)
However, because of my age, my surgeon used a cadaver replacement tendon.

Barely on-topic, excuse the brief soapboxing: please consider donating your body after you're done with it ("dead"). Yes, it's a little icky to think about, but it's a genuine last chance to make a stranger's life better (maybe a whole bunch of strangers). Whether your body goes to a med school, or a research institute, or a body farm (my favorite), at least make this a conscious decision.
Basically, if you don't have a will, make a will. And if this isn't part of your will, please give it some thought.
OK, that's it.
   77. Shooty Is Disappointed With His Midstream Urine Posted: September 24, 2013 at 01:38 PM (#4549385)
Like most people, I'm donating my body to Arby's whether I want to or not...
   78. Lassus Posted: September 24, 2013 at 01:41 PM (#4549389)
Barely on-topic, excuse the brief soapboxing: please consider donating your body after you're done with it ("dead"). Yes, it's a little icky to think about, but it's a genuine last chance to make a stranger's life better (maybe a whole bunch of strangers). Whether your body goes to a med school, or a research institute, or a body farm (my favorite), at least make this a conscious decision.

Are you saying it isn't athical for me to shoot myself into space in order to have someone Duncan Idaho me in 15 millenia or so?
   79. Fred Lynn Nolan Ryan Sweeney Agonistes Posted: September 24, 2013 at 01:49 PM (#4549396)
Are you saying it isn't athical for me to shoot myself into space in order to have someone Duncan Idaho me in 15 millenia or so?

can't tell if Jack Keefe-ing, or.... no, that last bit would be "Millwoodia" or something.

All I'm saying is, definitely make a decision about what's going to happen to your body after you're dead, and write that decision down, legally-wise.
And then I encourage everyone to look in to donating their bodies to medicine or research, somehow without making a single Gary Gilmore reference.
   80. RJ in TO Posted: September 24, 2013 at 01:49 PM (#4549397)
Like most people, I'm donating my body to Arby's whether I want to or not...

As the roast beef?
   81. vortex of dissipation Posted: September 24, 2013 at 01:50 PM (#4549398)
Barely on-topic, excuse the brief soapboxing: please consider donating your body after you're done with it ("dead"). Yes, it's a little icky to think about, but it's a genuine last chance to make a stranger's life better (maybe a whole bunch of strangers). Whether your body goes to a med school, or a research institute, or a body farm (my favorite), at least make this a conscious decision.
Basically, if you don't have a will, make a will. And if this isn't part of your will, please give it some thought.
OK, that's it.


I'm leaving my body to science; not medical but physics
Drag my corpse through the airport and lay me limp on the left wing
Drop me at the highest point and trace a line around the dent I leave in the ground:
That'll be the initial of the one you'll marry now I'm not around
I flew for seven hours
The sky didn't once turn black
   82. Fernigal McGunnigle has become a merry hat Posted: September 24, 2013 at 01:51 PM (#4549400)
Barely on-topic, excuse the brief soapboxing: please consider donating your body after you're done with it ("dead"). Yes, it's a little icky to think about, but it's a genuine last chance to make a stranger's life better (maybe a whole bunch of strangers). Whether your body goes to a med school, or a research institute, or a body farm (my favorite), at least make this a conscious decision.
Basically, if you don't have a will, make a will. And if this isn't part of your will, please give it some thought.
OK, that's it.


A woman I supervise just came back to work after getting a kidney transplant. (Lupus wrecked the pair she was born with.) She's not that far removed from her surgery, and she already seems hugely healthier and livelier than she was beforehand. Some stranger made a decision that greatly helped my co-worker. So, yeah, what FLNRSA said.
   83. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: September 24, 2013 at 01:53 PM (#4549402)
And this differs in any meaningful way from PED use... how? If it were his own ligament it would have been one thing. But the ligament from the cadaver meant that he needed outside help.

And what's the deal with casts? You want your arm to not move, hold it with your other arm, smart guy.
   84. dlf Posted: September 24, 2013 at 02:07 PM (#4549413)
#82 - I don't know how long it has been for your subordinate, but I received a kidney transplant on June 21st and within just a couple days went from constantly tired, in dull pain, swollen, and miserable to feeling roughly three hundred and seventy two quadrillion times better. I wake up feeling good, I have energy, I'm not in pain (except when dealing with my teenaged daughters), and I count myself as tremendously lucky. Pass along to your colleague the best wishes from some random guy you know on the internet who has been there.

#76 - As the proud owner of a previously used kidney, I strongly, strongly agree. Whatever happens to us after here, we don't need the full compliment of organs wherever we may go. Leave them to someone who can use them.
   85. Bitter Mouse Posted: September 24, 2013 at 02:22 PM (#4549430)
Yeah I have donor on my DL checked, it is in my will, and the family all know I do not care what happens to my body after I am dead so have at, part me out, whatever - do some final good.

Note: Wasn't someone here convinced that hospitals were more likely to let you die if you were a donor, or something ... um ... unusual like that?
   86. SoSH U at work Posted: September 24, 2013 at 02:23 PM (#4549432)
#76 - As the proud owner of a previously used kidney, I strongly, strongly agree. Whatever happens to us after here, we don't need the full compliment of organs wherever we may go. Leave them to someone who can use them.


Now let's hear the opposing viewpoint. Mr. RDP, the floor is yours...
   87. Dr. Vaux Posted: September 24, 2013 at 02:27 PM (#4549443)
You can see the otherworldly range with your eyes. When it's that obvious, you know it's special.


Yes, I can see that it's pretty special. I've watched a lot of Orioles games this year. It's funny, in real life I'm not nearly as skeptical as I am on the internet. That's perhaps not uncommon, though, I suppose.
   88. Fred Lynn Nolan Ryan Sweeney Agonistes Posted: September 24, 2013 at 02:28 PM (#4549445)
It's funny, both parents have strongly discouraged me from donating a kidney. I think they're imagining that I go into the OR, complications ensue, I die, and the next day Science announces that a 3-D printer has been invented which will allow people to "re-create" their organs using their own DNA, and then the day after that the person I donated to has complications and dies also.
Something like that.

(I can see the technology moving in this direction, but it doesn't feel like something to plan anybody's life around)
   89. boteman Posted: September 24, 2013 at 02:32 PM (#4549448)
Knowing how profit motivates the suits running the big money health care system, is it inconceivable that my lightly used body parts will become chips in a bidding war? Meaning that they might not go to the most deserving patient, but to the one with the best insurance?

Anyway, check me off as a donor. Although I'm quite sure one part of me will instead be enshrined in a hall of fame for all the pleasure it brought to the world. :-)
   90. Barnaby Jones Posted: September 24, 2013 at 02:35 PM (#4549455)
You are off a little on the "was a SS" before the injury. He was, technically, but he was going to make the Majors as a LF in 1994. His late spring ACL tear gave Ryan Klesko a spot in Atlanta instead. He had been moved off of SS prior to the injury, not because of a bad knee, but because he made throwing errors by the boatload.


Well, considering that up until the spring training where he got injured he had played 0 games at any level at any position other than SS, I feel comfortable with my statement that he had been a SS before the injury. In 1994, the Braves had Blauser (coming off a 5.7 WAR season) at SS and a Gant-stupidity void in LF. They wanted his bat in the lineup, so that's where they were gonna put him. You are correct that he wasn't a particularly good SS, so that wasn't going to be his long term home, but if it had been Blauser (who also wasn't much of a defender) on that ATV I think it's pretty likely Chipper would have been penciled into the lineup at 6. At least until Bobby got fed up and went all Belliard all the time.
   91. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 24, 2013 at 02:38 PM (#4549459)
Like most people, I'm donating my body to Arby's whether I want to or not...


Nice.
   92. Bitter Mouse Posted: September 24, 2013 at 04:04 PM (#4549523)
is it inconceivable that my lightly used body parts will become chips in a bidding war?


Inconceivable? No. Expected? Also no.

And even if that is the case, even if it goes to Mr. Moneybags, still someone is alive who would otherwise be dead. And as much as I want to tax the rich, especially with a yummy DEATH TAX (cue the scary music), still I would rather even rich people not die for lack of organ donors. And if there are enough organs then even in the worst case everyone gets one.
   93. boteman Posted: September 24, 2013 at 04:11 PM (#4549531)
Mr. Vargas: They sold their bodies to medicine for money. About $30, I think.
Dr. Miller: Twenty-five.
Jeff Spicoli: Righteous bucks!
   94. ursus arctos Posted: September 24, 2013 at 06:48 PM (#4549626)
Per Dan Szymborski on Twitter:

Machado diagnosis is a ligament in his thigh, not one of the scary knee ones. No surgery and can run in 6-8 weeks.


Please, please, please be true.
   95. Shooty Is Disappointed With His Midstream Urine Posted: September 24, 2013 at 07:16 PM (#4549639)
That is great, great news.
   96. smileyy Posted: September 24, 2013 at 07:32 PM (#4549646)
Barely on-topic, excuse the brief soapboxing: please consider donating your body after you're done with it ("dead").


When I'm the benevolent tyrant who starts out good but loses his way, organ donation will be opt-out, not opt-in.
   97. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: September 24, 2013 at 07:33 PM (#4549648)
From ESPN:


BALTIMORE -- The Baltimore Orioles and Manny Machado couldn't have asked for a much better diagnosis on his injured left knee: The third baseman avoided tearing any major ligaments and could be running in six to eight weeks without surgery.

An MRI on Tuesday revealed Machado has a torn medial patellofemoral ligament. He will rest the knee until the swelling subsides and then go through a light rehabilitative program.

"The MCL is fine, the ACL is fine," Orioles head trainer Richie Bancells said. "All those major ligaments are fine. This is a smaller ligament."

...

"I was relieved because it's a good report," said Dan Duquette, executive vice president of baseball operations. "If everything falls into place like we think, this is something he could recover from with rest. Of course, he's out for the rest of the season, but he will be able to come back and play next year."
   98. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 24, 2013 at 07:35 PM (#4549652)
That is great, great news.


Yeah, it apparently is the best case scenario.

As I said last night after watching the video, I couldn't really tell what I was watching. I didn't really ever see his knee buckle. He did go down hard and he did tear something but it was not like I saw his knee completely jackknife the wrong way.
   99. DKDC Posted: September 24, 2013 at 07:39 PM (#4549655)
Awesome news!

I wonder if this injury will have any impact on his gold glove chances. For some odd reason I think it helps.
   100. boteman Posted: September 24, 2013 at 07:39 PM (#4549656)
I just hope he lets the thing heal completely. No need to rush back into sports activities and tear it doing something pointless. Like washing his truck.
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