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Thursday, December 07, 2017

Mariners Acquire Gordon As Marlins Pick Up Trio Of Prospects | BaseballAmerica.com

Mariners acquire:

Dee Gordon, 2B/CF

Age: 29

A two-time all-star with the Dodgers and Marlins, Gordon will move to the outfield for the first time in his eight-year big league career in 2018. Gordon’s plus speed, which helped him to a major league-best 60 stolen bases last season, should help ease the transition, however. As long as Gordon proves he is capable of playing an average centerfield, his bat should help the Mariners immediately. Last season, the Mariners’ primary centerfielder was Jarrod Dyson, who hit .251/.324/.350 in 111 games––all numbers in which Gordon should be able to match, and surpass, with a repeat of his offensive production from a year ago.

Jim Furtado Posted: December 07, 2017 at 07:55 PM | 58 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: dee gordon, mariners, marlins, trades

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   1. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: December 07, 2017 at 08:16 PM (#5588404)
Seems odd to just assume a guy who has never played a single game in the OF can just go ahead and become an acceptable CF at 30.
   2. Khrushin it bro Posted: December 07, 2017 at 08:27 PM (#5588414)
It also seems odd to say that
Gordon should be able to match, and surpass, with a repeat of his offensive production from a year ago.


Gordon 2017 hit .308/.341/.375 (and hit .268/.305/.335 in 2016)
Dyson 2017 hit .251/.324/.350

Those are very similar but Gordon has to switch leagues.

I'll give it to Gordon for hitting very well in 2015 in his age 27 breakout season at (.333/.359/.418) but he's still a batting average dependent hitter who is going into his age 30 season at a position he's never played. Good luck Seattle.
   3. PreservedFish Posted: December 07, 2017 at 08:44 PM (#5588424)
Dyson is always heavily platooned. Not really fair to compare his slash lines with Gordon's.

But I agree with "Good luck Seattle." This seems like a round peg, square hole type of move. Check this out from the Washington Post write up:

For his part, Gordon said he was “shocked” to learn of the trade and the Mariners desire to move him from second base to center field. Gordon’s agent, Nate Heisler, released a statement saying the Mariners did not receive Gordon’s approval for the position switch prior to the trade being finalized.

Gordon said he’ll accept the position switch, but maybe not with the most enthusiasm.

“I had honestly never heard of a situation where a guy who was a Gold Glove-caliber player at his position turning over to a new positon,” Gordon said. “I was definitely shocked, but at the end of the day I’m a team player and if that’s what I have to do for the Seattle Mariners, if that’s what is best for them then that’s what I’ve got to do.”

   4. shoewizard Posted: December 07, 2017 at 08:53 PM (#5588432)
Players since integration that have played at least 20% of career at BOTH 2b and CF, miniumum 1000 PA

Dee Gordon, with 93 Career OPS+, and 10.4 Career WAR better than all of them. So there's that. But this is a short list. Unusual position combination.

Player               PA OPSWAR/pos From   To    G HR  BB  SO SH GDP  SB CS   BA  OBP  SLG  OPS        Pos
Derrel Thomas      5268   84     6.6 1971 1985 1597 43 456 593 81  73 140 92 .249 .317 .332 .649 486H5
/7932
Emilio Bonifacio   2894   75     4.4 2007 2017  831 13 215 603 43  23 166 48 .256 .313 .333 .645  48H56
/79D
Willie Harris      2816   79     3.4 2001 2012 1046 39 306 500 28  33 107 40 .238 .327 .346 .673  H784
/95D6
Vic Harris         1806   66    
-6.2 1972 1980  579 13 160 281 19  26  36 22 .217 .287 .295 .582  48H/5697D
Jolbert Cabrera    1531   76     0.1 1998 2008  609 18  73 241  9  35  38 16 .257 .306 .365 .670 74H8
/5963D 


Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 12/7/2017.
   5. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: December 07, 2017 at 08:54 PM (#5588434)
If you are serious about winning, then Dee Gordon is not your answer for CF.

If I was Ohtani I'd be thinking, holy cr*p that Seattle FO is really stupid, I'm not going there!
   6. madvillain Posted: December 07, 2017 at 08:55 PM (#5588438)
Dipoto is going rogue. This feels like it's going to backfire spectacularly.
   7. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: December 07, 2017 at 08:57 PM (#5588440)
But this is a short list. Unusual position combination.


Indeed. However the Red Sox had a young prospect once who was a 2B, they switched him to CF for a season and now plays a pretty good RF. So I guess it can happen. Then again Mookie was like 22 when all this happened...
   8. Bote Man Posted: December 07, 2017 at 09:00 PM (#5588445)
Word from smarter guys is that Gordon's arm won't hack it in CF.
   9. PreservedFish Posted: December 07, 2017 at 09:05 PM (#5588450)
What are the worst and best moves to the outfield? On the one hand you have Todd Hundley and Hanley Ramirez. On the other, a guy like Alex Gordon, who didn't seem to be a spectacular athlete or anything, and went overnight from inept 3B to world's greatest LF.

Dee's got the speed for the position. But it's still a huge unknown. Really strange move. And I bet he's a better 2B fielder than Cano is at this point.
   10. shoewizard Posted: December 07, 2017 at 09:32 PM (#5588459)
Gordon’s agent, Nate Heisler, released a statement saying the Mariners did not receive Gordon’s approval for the position switch prior to the trade being finalized.


Approval ? Uh....thats not how it works. Not if you don't have no trade privileges. I mean I get it, but still, agent seems a bit off base here.

And Gordon should not be so obtuse. He has the chance to join an up and coming team, and he's not going to unseat Robinson Cano, and he should realize that. For a guy that had an 80 game suspension for PED abuse, he would do well to not take such a recalcitrant response.
   11. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: December 07, 2017 at 09:33 PM (#5588460)
Word from smarter guys is that Gordon's arm won't hack it in CF.


I can't imagine that 45 foot toss to 1B prepares your arm for the regular 200+ foot throws you'll need to make in CF.

And I bet he's a better 2B fielder than Cano is at this point.


Do they have a 1B? They should just move Cano to 1B. But yeah, then they still need a CF.
   12. Renegade (((JE))) Posted: December 07, 2017 at 09:40 PM (#5588464)
Seems odd to just assume a guy who has never played a single game in the OF can just go ahead and become an acceptable CF at 30.
Come on, doesn't anyone remember all of the NL East titles the Mets won after trading for Juan Samuel?
   13. shoewizard Posted: December 07, 2017 at 09:40 PM (#5588465)
Chris Owings, who like Gordon is extremely fast and athletic, played mostly 2b in 2015, (came up as a SS, but moved to 2b in 15 as Ahmed got most of playing time at SS.)

In 2016, Owings played a lot of CF, mostly in earlier in the year, as AJ Pollock was out. He looked rough and inexperienced on some plays, but his athleticism allowed him to improve quickly and he started making plays. Ended up +2 rDRS, but -1.7 UZR in 49 games, 403 innings there. So it came out about average I guess. Owings has a good arm though, and according to UZR small sample sizes, it was his arm that was a plus and range a minus.

But if Gordon's arm sucks, as Bote Man mentions, that is going to be a big drag.





   14. madvillain Posted: December 07, 2017 at 09:44 PM (#5588468)
Approval ? Uh....thats not how it works. Not if you don't have no trade privileges. I mean I get it, but still, agent seems a bit off base here.


Sure but you'd think the team trading for the guy would ask him about a position switch before trading for him. It seems kinda dumb to alienate a guy you're trading for.

This is a very high risk strategy to say the least.
   15. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: December 07, 2017 at 09:48 PM (#5588471)
Ian Happ was only a rookie this year, but he played 54 games in CF and 44 at 2b, with cameos in LF, Rf, and even 3b. It's definitely an interesting mix.
   16. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: December 07, 2017 at 09:51 PM (#5588473)
And I bet he's a better 2B fielder than Cano is at this point.

True, but I'm positive he's a better CF than Cano.
   17. shoewizard Posted: December 07, 2017 at 09:54 PM (#5588476)
Sure but you'd think the team trading for the guy would ask him about a position switch before trading for him. It seems kinda dumb to alienate a guy you're trading for.

This is a very high risk strategy to say the least.



I agree that this is high risk, medium reward move.

However now sure about asking Gordon for his agreement first. That would require the Marlins to give permission to the Mariners to talk to him during trade negotiations, otherwise it would be some form of tampering, right ?

I guess the Mariners could have requested permission, I'm not sure what would be the protocol here, but I don't think that is SOP. The vast majority of trades go down without communication between the team trading for the player and the player.
   18. cardsfanboy Posted: December 07, 2017 at 10:05 PM (#5588485)
Billy Hamilton was a shortstop in the minors, and the team decided it would make sense to utilize his primary asset, speed, and move him to center, he's gone from being a likely second baseman, to a plus centerfielder. The primary skill for a centerfielder is speed, (batted ball recognition also figures strongly, but I'm not sure that a quality second baseman is missing that skill, just has to be retrained)
   19. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: December 07, 2017 at 10:08 PM (#5588486)
“I had honestly never heard of a situation where a guy who was a Gold Glove-caliber player at his position turning over to a new positon,” Gordon said.

Talk to your former Owner/CEO. He can clue you in.
   20. cardsfanboy Posted: December 07, 2017 at 10:08 PM (#5588487)
However now sure about asking Gordon for his agreement first. That would require the Marlins to give permission to the Mariners to talk to him during trade negotiations, otherwise it would be some form of tampering, right


I don't think the issue is really about asking permission before the trade, but the announcing of the position switch before you talk to the guy seems like a cart before the horse type of thing. And there is also the possibility that this trade was for the international money, and not Dee Gordon and that he'll be flipped before any of this becomes a real deal.
   21. shoewizard Posted: December 07, 2017 at 10:29 PM (#5588508)
I don't think the issue is really about asking permission before the trade, but the announcing of the position switch before you talk to the guy seems like a cart before the horse type of thing. And there is also the possibility that this trade was for the international money, and not Dee Gordon and that he'll be flipped before any of this becomes a real deal.


We don't know exactly that they didn't talk to Gordon or agent before announcing the intention to switch positions. The agent complained that

the Mariners did not receive Gordon’s approval for the position switch prior to the trade being finalized.


It very well could be that they made the trade, called Gordon's agent, said they were moving him to CF, and then announced it.
   22. Walt Davis Posted: December 07, 2017 at 11:10 PM (#5588525)
A few SS have made the transition -- Yount, Stanley ... I think Bill Russell was moved to CF then moved back ... Jose Hernandez did it for a while I think; vaguely recall the White Sox tried Jose Valentin out there but he got moved back. Worth a shot I suppose and, if it fails, then you can move DG to 2B and Cano to 1B/DH next year. But it is odd to want Gordon when you don't need a 2B. He's been perfectly solid from a WAA perspective the last 3 years but a lot of that comes from Rdef + Rpos. Even if he's a reasonably solid CF (say -5), you could be reducing his value by about 1 win relative to 2B. Gordon as a below-average CF just isn't valuable ... not that 3/$30 (or whatever) is a lot of money.

Any opinions on the prospects?
   23. madvillain Posted: December 07, 2017 at 11:11 PM (#5588526)
I don't think the arm issue is anything at all. You're still firing the ball at high velocity at 2B. It's a different motion granted but a strong arm is a strong arm in baseball. He'll just have to do some footwork drills. The bigger question is does he have any instincts for positioning, tracking, and when to pull up and when to go all out with vastly more space around him. I kinda think CF are born and made at the MLB level. He can pull it off, but I don't think it's given that he'll be above average. I'd think median case he settles in around run neutral and there's a 20% or so chance he'll just be awful.

Spitballing, but #### the dead of winter is starting what else is there to talk about.

A few SS have made the transition -- Yount, Stanley ... I think Bill Russell was moved to CF then moved back ... Jose Hernandez did it for a while I think; vaguely recall the White Sox tried Jose Valentin out there but he got moved back.


The Sox have a guy now Leury Garcia that did it and at times made it look rather simple (well mostly). He had a lot of boneheaded mental mistakes (as you'd expect from a transition such as infield to OF) but the tools played fine and the "go track it down" instinct was there. What Dee has going against him that Leury doesn't is that he's at the twilight of his athletic prime. CF is a demanding position athletically in ways even 2B isn't.
   24. Baldrick Posted: December 07, 2017 at 11:44 PM (#5588537)
Gordon is VERY fast. Don't know if he can necessarily translate speed into good outfield defense, but he's absolutely got the wheels to play the position.
   25. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: December 08, 2017 at 12:31 AM (#5588548)
Not too familiar with the other two guys, but Nick Neidert is a pretty good prospect. Struggled a bit moving up to AA, but he's still just 22 and probably a top 100/certainly on the final cut list.

That would probably be a fair price to pay for Gordon.... if you needed a 2B.

I'm not sure how this makes sense for the Mariners.... and I'm especially not sure how it makes sense if Gordon isn't keen on the idea of moving elsewhere on the diamond.

Seems to me that the Rays might have at least considered this same package for Kevin Kiermaier... and with Acuna coming fast, might the Braves have listened on Inciarte?

Or hey - there's guys like Lorenzo Cain or Carlos Gomez that just cost money. Or just resign Dyson, who - offensive limitations aside - isn't a terrible option either.

Or, you know, Jason Heyward is available and he can play CF.
   26. stevegamer Posted: December 08, 2017 at 12:48 AM (#5588556)
it pretty common to move, but not so late. The Phillies did that with Herrera.

Biggio went C -> 2B -> CF during his career, and CF is vastly different from catching.
   27. John Reynard Posted: December 08, 2017 at 05:18 AM (#5588565)
FP Santangelo missed the list by a weeks worth of starts at 2B. CF/2B really isn't that rare. In fact, one of 2B or CF is where a lot of SS who can't quite hack it or whose bats are ahead of their glove at SS end up. Mookie Betts is an example here. Santangelo of course was just a filler guy who got more PA than expected cause the Expos always needed warm bodies in the middle infield who could hit a bit and not embarrass themselves with the glove (Lansing, Grudzielanek, Santangelo) during that time period.
   28. Rally Posted: December 08, 2017 at 07:26 AM (#5588578)
I think Bill Russell was moved to CF then moved back


Maybe Russell played short in high school, but as a pro he started out as an outfielder at age 17, and never played shortstop until after he had reached the big leagues. Looks like he played all of 16 games as a shortstop in the majors and minors before 1972, when he became the Dodgers' starting shortstop.
   29. Kiguchi Posted: December 08, 2017 at 07:56 AM (#5588584)
@zonk - That package is nowhere near enough for Inciarte, much less Kiermaier. If you add Kyle Lewis, may be the Braves will listen for Inciarte.

Remember when primates were calling for Jeter to move to CF? Fun times.
   30. Greg Pope Posted: December 08, 2017 at 09:16 AM (#5588619)
Players since integration that have played at least 20% of career at BOTH 2b and CF, miniumum 1000 PA

Why isn't Biggio on this list?
   31. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: December 08, 2017 at 09:20 AM (#5588622)
Word from smarter guys is that Gordon's arm won't hack it in CF.


Maybe, but it's hard for me to imagine that his arm is much worse than Juan Pierre's, and Pierre still spent a hell of a lot of time in center.

Not too familiar with the other two guys, but Nick Neidert is a pretty good prospect. Struggled a bit moving up to AA, but he's still just 22 and probably a top 100/certainly on the final cut list.


Maybe, but AA is usually the level that sorts the sheep from the goats when it comes to an underpowered SP who relies on command, so it's not a great sign that he struggled there. Maybe he'll make adjustments and keep moving, and maybe he won't.
   32. villageidiom Posted: December 08, 2017 at 09:28 AM (#5588632)
Remember when primates were calling for Jeter to move to CF? Fun times.
Yes. It was 2007, and the Yankees were starting to regret the Johnny Damon CF Experience. I said at the time, moving Jeter didn't make sense with the existing roster because they didn't have any switch they could make (without a trade) that would be a net negative on defense:
After looking at the regulars's defensive rankings, I've reached the conclusion that Jeter being at SS is not the problem. The whole defense is the problem, because the defense was built for offense. Moving Jeter elsewhere to make room for a good fielder makes sense because Jeter plays one of the most important defensive positions. But moving him because he'd be better in another position... well, the case could be made for just about anyone out there except Mientkiewicz.

To improve the defense, the offense must be made less potent. And thus you need to weigh how much defense matters relative to offense. Or they need to find someone who excels at both.
The above was through looking at the Fans Scouting Report rankings.

If I try a similar exercise with Dee Gordon (with his FSR ratings through 2016), he fares well in CF. The skills he needs to excel in CF, he has. He's not a top-10 CF defender but he's good enough.
   33. villageidiom Posted: December 08, 2017 at 09:30 AM (#5588635)
What are the worst and best moves to the outfield? On the one hand you have Todd Hundley and Hanley Ramirez. On the other, a guy like Alex Gordon, who didn't seem to be a spectacular athlete or anything, and went overnight from inept 3B to world's greatest LF.
The move of Mookie Betts to the outfield seems to have worked well.
   34. puck Posted: December 08, 2017 at 10:13 AM (#5588670)

Why isn't Biggio on this list?


20% of a long career is a lot of games? He didn't even meet the 20% standard for catcher.
   35. catomi01 Posted: December 08, 2017 at 10:27 AM (#5588680)
I advocated Jeter to the OF earlier than that - I think the natural time would have been when they got AROD or the couple of years after. Jeter to CF, Bernie to a corner/DH, and find a third baseman...who knows if it would have worked, but those mid-2000's teams were rough defensively, and I have to think that combo (with matsui in right and sheffield DH'ing instead of Ruben Sierra and the bad version of Giambi) would have let to a better all-around team.
   36. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: December 08, 2017 at 10:45 AM (#5588706)
BTW -

I suppose people paying attention and knowing the Fish were shopping Dee knew the Gordon was Dee all along.... but my first thought was still "wow - so the Royals parted with Alex? AND got someone to give up actual prospects for him?"
   37. Tom Nawrocki Posted: December 08, 2017 at 11:18 AM (#5588730)
What are the worst and best moves to the outfield?


Alfonso Soriano's example is available.
   38. Rally Posted: December 08, 2017 at 11:29 AM (#5588735)
I can't argue with the results of moving Willie Mays, Hank Aaron, and Mickey Mantle to the outfield.
   39. DL from MN Posted: December 08, 2017 at 11:44 AM (#5588750)
Moving Miguel Sano to RF didn't work out very well
   40. shoewizard Posted: December 08, 2017 at 12:10 PM (#5588777)
for # 30 & 34

So I had to drop the % requirement under 10% to bring in Biggio. Since i was there, went a smidge lower to 7% to bring in Gant. Also upped the PA requirement to 5000.

Probably a more interesting, but not necessarily relevant list actually.

Current search:
Spanning Multiple Seasons or entire Careers, From 1947 to 2017, Played at least 7% of games at 2B and CF, (requiring At least 5000 plate appearances), sorted by greatest Plate Appearances

Rk          Player    PA From   To    G  HR  RBI   BB   SO HBP GDP  SB  CS   BA  OBP  SLG  OPS          Pos
1     Craig Biggio 12504 1988 2007 2850 291 1175 1160 1753 285 150 414 124 .281 .363 .433 .796    
*4287/HD9
2         Ron Gant  7320 1987 2003 1832 321 1008  770 1411  32  98 243 102 .256 .336 .468 .803    
*78H4/5D9
3      Juan Samuel  6664 1983 1998 1720 161  703  440 1442  74  81 396 143 .259 .315 .420 .735   
*48H/D3975
4      Cesar Tovar  6177 1965 1976 1488  46  435  413  410  88  58 226 108 .278 .335 .368 .703 87549H
/D6321
5    Chone Figgins  5360 2002 2014 1282  35  403  540  832  10  73 341 119 .276 .349 .363 .712    548
/7H69D
6    Derrel Thomas  5268 1971 1985 1597  43  370  456  593  25  73 140  92 .249 .317 .332 .649   486H5
/7932 


Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 12/8/2017.
   41. Jesse Barfield's Right Arm Posted: December 08, 2017 at 12:11 PM (#5588778)
I don't think anyone has mentioned it, but Odubel Herrera was a successful move from minor league 2B to CF (though obviously younger than Gordon).

Advanced defensive stats like him, even if he looks pretty awkward out there.
   42. Greg Pope Posted: December 08, 2017 at 12:19 PM (#5588788)
OK, Biggio played way less OF than I thought he did.
   43. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: December 08, 2017 at 12:20 PM (#5588791)
Tom Tresh moved from SS to CF and back to SS. Unfortunately, he went from hitting like Al Kaline to hitting like Ray Oyler in the process.
   44. PepTech Posted: December 08, 2017 at 01:12 PM (#5588825)
Gordon called in to Seattle sports radio yesterday, seemed fine with it. Surprised, but gave all the right answers as to doing whatever the team needed, etc. It was somewhat humorous when his Call Waiting went off and he checked the ID - it was Ken Griffey. The host told him to take the call and the interview ended prematurely :)

There's still several years left on Cano's contract, and it's unlikely he'll be a 2B the whole time. Assuming Gordon's arm isn't total trash, it's not unreasonable to posit that his plus speed will offset a minus arm for a season or two, after which Cano could end up at 1B pretty easily. In the meantime Gordon's offense and leadoff/basepath skills will be welcome in the lineup. Also, Segura has been rickety, and it's nice to have options up the middle beyond Taylor Motter.

Given the likely fire sale incipient in Miami, Gordon's probably pleased to be leaving town.

   45. DCA Posted: December 08, 2017 at 01:20 PM (#5588828)
Yeah, I could see Gordon having some utility if he is the effective backup at 2B and SS. Otherwise, this is a lot to pay (in $ and talent) to replace Dyson at a similar level of performance.
   46. aberg Posted: December 08, 2017 at 01:59 PM (#5588871)
Yeah, I could see Gordon having some utility if he is the effective backup at 2B and SS. Otherwise, this is a lot to pay (in $ and talent) to replace Dyson at a similar level of performance.


Dyson had a career high 390 PAs last year. Gordon has gone over 650 in each season since he has been up full time, with the exception of his suspension. He's really replacing 60% of a season of Dyson and 40% of something like Heredia.
   47. TimeWarner Sucks Posted: December 08, 2017 at 02:03 PM (#5588875)
You don't have to look back very far to see a successful move from IF to CF. Watching Chris Taylor during the World Series might have put that idea in the Mariners' heads.
   48. DCA Posted: December 08, 2017 at 02:11 PM (#5588886)
Dyson had a career high 390 PAs last year.

Which was his only season with the Mariners. And that was in just 3/4 of season (his season basically ended due to injury in mid-August).

M's certainly were willing to give him 500+ PA.
   49. madvillain Posted: December 08, 2017 at 02:12 PM (#5588887)
ohtani to the angels, I'm sorry, but lmao at Dipoto's desperation. Most Mariners thing ever. Totally played themselves.
   50. Blastin Posted: December 08, 2017 at 02:14 PM (#5588888)
Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha Mariners.

Good on the Angels. If they could only send Albert to the glue factory they'd be great. As of now they're, what, mid to high 80s projected?
   51. Nasty Nate Posted: December 08, 2017 at 02:18 PM (#5588889)
I wonder where he'll play in the field until Pujols is gone? Their OF seems full.
   52. Baldrick Posted: December 08, 2017 at 02:52 PM (#5588918)
Oh Seattle, how I both love and hate you.
   53. Sunday silence Posted: December 08, 2017 at 04:59 PM (#5589034)
Going strictly from the stat point of view, it seems that he should be able to play passable CF.

The one thing Ive noted is that it seems if you have a high SB rate you have the quickness to play that position. there's a lot of players who have the range to play OF but still dont steal bases at a good rate. So we know he's fast, and by all indications he should have the quickness.

The one caveat is that I cant recall studying any Cf who was able to maintain his numbers after age 29, maybe Willie Mays did and I forget but it would be a really rare thing to find an age 30 CF as effective as he was at a younger age. So I would say Gordon's likely to be quite passable in the role, but I cant see him being exceptional.
   54. ReggieThomasLives Posted: December 08, 2017 at 09:59 PM (#5589136)
I think Bill Russell was moved to CF then moved back


They should have kept him in CF, remembering his games against the Knicks, nothing could get over him.
   55. Walt Davis Posted: December 09, 2017 at 05:23 PM (#5589398)
Little did we know, this trade now looks like a complement to the Stanton deal. Gordon makes about the same AAV as Castro. Marlins knew they'd have to eat Castro's salary in Stanton deal, swap out Gordon and the Marlins still have a roughly comparable 2B and Castro doesn't increase their non-Stanton payroll. Castro even has one less year.
   56. bookbook Posted: December 09, 2017 at 06:44 PM (#5589414)
I do not think Castro starts a single game in the Marlins uniform.
   57. Greg K Posted: December 10, 2017 at 06:50 AM (#5589490)
The one caveat is that I cant recall studying any Cf who was able to maintain his numbers after age 29, maybe Willie Mays did and I forget but it would be a really rare thing to find an age 30 CF as effective as he was at a younger age.


How did Steve Finley hold up? I recall that he famously won a Gold Glove at 39. Or was that more of a "it's impressive he's still able to play CF at 39 at all" award than a "he's still a great CF" one
   58. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: December 10, 2017 at 09:16 AM (#5589500)
I do not think Castro starts a single game in the Marlins uniform.

Concur. He would have the least popular jersey in the history of Miami.

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