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Friday, December 06, 2013

Mariners break off talks with Robinson Cano after Jay Z “overplayed his hand”

Just when it looked like Robinson Cano was ready to say goodbye to the Yankees and sign a massive long-term contract with the Mariners talks have broken down and Mark Feinsand of the New York Daily News reports that “Cano’s chances of landing in Seattle have apparently ended on a sour note.”

According to Feinsand the contract talks “collapsed after Jay Z apparently overplayed his hand in a negotiating session with the Mariners” by asking for a 10-year, $252 million deal following “assurances” that Seattle would do $225 million over nine years. Mariners chief executive officer Howard Lincoln reportedly “exploded” after Jay Z upped the demands mid-meeting.

Thanks to Kidd.

Repoz Posted: December 06, 2013 at 10:17 AM | 260 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: mariners, yankees

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   1. Best Regards, President of Comfort Posted: December 06, 2013 at 10:27 AM (#4611755)
Hmm.
   2. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: December 06, 2013 at 10:34 AM (#4611763)
Sounds like a potential east coast/west coast rivalry.

So Jay Z is personally handling negotiations? I thought he was just heading the agency, not actually being the agent.
   3. LargeBill Posted: December 06, 2013 at 10:38 AM (#4611764)
Huh, who could have imagined that hiring a rookie to negotiate the free agency process for ya wouldn't work out as well as promised?
   4. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: December 06, 2013 at 10:40 AM (#4611766)
Kuroda back to the Yanks on a 1 year deal
   5. Best Regards, President of Comfort Posted: December 06, 2013 at 10:41 AM (#4611767)
I remember when Gary Sheffield represented himself and almost blew it with George Steinbrenner by pulling this move. The Yankees came thisclose to signing Vlad instead.
   6. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: December 06, 2013 at 10:48 AM (#4611769)
You mean Cano might wind up back with the Yankees? I'm shocked.
   7. NJ in DC Posted: December 06, 2013 at 10:51 AM (#4611773)
Call me crazy, but I somehow doubt CAA Sports has Jay-Z in the room by himself independently making up negotiation demands. But hey, gotta move papers and generate clicks.
   8. SteveF Posted: December 06, 2013 at 10:54 AM (#4611775)
You are crazy.
   9. McCoy Posted: December 06, 2013 at 10:59 AM (#4611780)
If I had to guess I would guess that Seattle wasn't really thrilled at 9 years/225 million and wanted something south of that and then CAA floated a 10th year and 27 million more and that made Seattle realize that Cano was going to cost them more than they could actually spend so they walked away. Emotion sells newspapers so I doubt anyone really exploded.

Either that or they tried a Boras move and told the Mariners they had another bidder and if they went to 10years they could get the deal done.
   10. Gamingboy Posted: December 06, 2013 at 11:08 AM (#4611790)
You know somebody is going to say Jay-Z personally botched it so that Cano could end up back in NYC. So I guess I'll say it now.
   11. Fanshawe Posted: December 06, 2013 at 11:13 AM (#4611796)
If I had to guess I would guess that Seattle wasn't really thrilled at 9 years/225 million and wanted something south of that and then CAA floated a 10th year and 27 million more and that made Seattle realize that Cano was going to cost them more than they could actually spend so they walked away. Emotion sells newspapers so I doubt anyone really exploded.


Hopefully. It would be pretty unfortunate for the Mariners if they're run by a person who blows up nearly completed deals because someone hurt his feelings.
   12. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: December 06, 2013 at 11:15 AM (#4611797)
Call me crazy, but I somehow doubt CAA Sports has Jay-Z in the room by himself independently making up negotiation demands. But hey, gotta move papers and generate clicks.


Call me crazy, but I doubt Jay Z surrounds himself with people willing to say "Jay Z, you're being foolish."
   13. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: December 06, 2013 at 11:15 AM (#4611798)
Emotion sells newspapers so I doubt anyone really exploded.

I wouldn't be surprised in the Yankees are calling in some favors and trying to make things seem more dramatic than they really are. That doesn't mean Cano's agents aren't overplaying their hand. He's easily the best player available, but he's not Bonds in 1993 or Maddux in '92 or A-Rod when he signed with Texas.
   14. Ray (RDP) Posted: December 06, 2013 at 11:16 AM (#4611803)
So Jay Z is personally handling negotiations? I thought he was just heading the agency, not actually being the agent.


That was my immediate question.
   15. zonk Posted: December 06, 2013 at 11:18 AM (#4611805)
This is something that has always puzzled me -- not just in negotiations like this, but just generally in professional situations...

I understand grudges and all, and sometimes things get testy and emotional... but do people really, truly "walk away" or completely cut off negotiations over stuff like this?

I mean, I've been told I'm a real pain in the ass to deal with when it comes to roto trades... and I know I've also tossed out a few "You've got to be ####### KIDDING ME!" in response to offers. But I have never, ever come close to a situation where an hour later, I would be willing to get back to the table and get things done if we found ourselves closer to a deal.

I've honestly been puzzled by the same things professionally -- I keep a much tighter leash on my tongue, but I never understood why I need to... I know one can't be a constant screaming #######, but sometimes discussions get heated. Sometimes I think cutting through the BS and clearly enunciating issues -- even if someone's fee-fees get hurt -- has to happen. No need to take it personal - so long as the yelling occurs over actions, courses of actions, or whatnot rather than the underlying individual, what's the problem?

If I ever found myself on one side of the table and facing down a ridiculous offer -- I'd probably say that it was ridiculous... but I cannot fathom being unwilling to discuss it further if my counterpart came back with a non-ridiculous counter-proposal on the matter, nor would I ever see myself being unable to talk to the party again on another matter. Is that weird?
   16. zonk Posted: December 06, 2013 at 11:18 AM (#4611807)

Call me crazy, but I doubt Jay Z surrounds himself with people willing to say "Jay Z, you're being foolish."


Then he's an idiot.
   17. Non-Youkilidian Geometry Posted: December 06, 2013 at 11:23 AM (#4611813)
If I ever found myself on one side of the table and facing down a ridiculous offer -- I'd probably say that it was ridiculous... but I cannot fathom being unwilling to discuss it further if my counterpart came back with a non-ridiculous counter-proposal on the matter, nor would I ever see myself being unable to talk to the party again on another matter.

Maybe Howard Lincoln "exploded" literally rather than just figuratively. It's hard to return to the negotiating table when you are distributed in small fragments around the boardroom.
   18. spike Posted: December 06, 2013 at 11:27 AM (#4611816)
Then he's an idiot.

And I guess a really lucky one to have made all that money and closed all those other deals despite this handicap.
   19. dejarouehg Posted: December 06, 2013 at 11:29 AM (#4611824)
I have no idea why but if the headline is correct, I am bathing in the warmth that is the feeling of schadenfreude.

Then again, the idea of the Yankees losing Cano was also particularly appealing.
   20. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: December 06, 2013 at 11:30 AM (#4611826)
I understand grudges and all, and sometimes things get testy and emotional... but do people really, truly "walk away" or completely cut off negotiations over stuff like this?



I agree with other posters who say the emotion and "exploded" parts are exaggerated, but sure, talks get cut off. You get to an impasse where you say "this is my final offer" and the other side still doesn't meet your price, then what else do you have to talk about? Or if the counter-proposal is ridiculous, its clear you're too far apart, what is there to discuss? Also, "walk away" can be temporary. This is probably just a time for both parties to reassess the offer and the rest of the market and determine where they want to go from here.
   21. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: December 06, 2013 at 11:32 AM (#4611828)
I understand grudges and all, and sometimes things get testy and emotional... but do people really, truly "walk away" or completely cut off negotiations over stuff like this?


It happens. I've been involved in stuff both ways. Sometimes things get contentious and you walk away, take a deep breath and then come back and work your way toward a deal. Other times there is a point where you just say \"#### this, I'm out of here."

It's really a cost/benefit thing where your time is the cost. For example, about 7-8 years ago I was negotiating a site for a conference my company was having. We were working with this hotel and we had the structure of an agreement in place then when they gave us a contract to look at it included additional costs that would have added 50% to our expenses. I was pissed because I felt they had negotiated in bad faith (that's a pretty meaningful change at a relatively late stage of negotiations) and the cost was so dramatic that I could not envision a way that working with them would get us to a middle ground both parties would be satisfied with. Within two days we had a new site for much less cost.

This is obviously different because we still had a conference site but the Mariners won't still have a Robinson Cano (there ain't many of those). But sometimes there is a straw that breaks a camels back. As you clearly understand negotiations sometimes get heated and I can pretty easily understand someone saying \"#### this" where the trigger seems minor enough but there was more to it.
   22. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: December 06, 2013 at 11:32 AM (#4611829)
If I ever found myself on one side of the table and facing down a ridiculous offer -- I'd probably say that it was ridiculous... but I cannot fathom being unwilling to discuss it further if my counterpart came back with a non-ridiculous counter-proposal on the matter, nor would I ever see myself being unable to talk to the party again on another matter.

Well it would make me think they didn't know what they were doing though. I may or may not want to deal with them in the future, but my inclination would be that further dealings are probably a waste of my time.
   23. The Good Face Posted: December 06, 2013 at 11:33 AM (#4611830)
I understand grudges and all, and sometimes things get testy and emotional... but do people really, truly "walk away" or completely cut off negotiations over stuff like this?


Yes. I've personally never done it, but I've had it done to me (and I was being so reasonable too!). That said, they'll often come back to the table hours, days or perhaps weeks later, but not always. It depends on bargaining power and alternatives to a negotiated agreement. Often such outbursts occur when a party quite literally (almost) can't live without the other party, the other party knows it, and is twisting their balls. Those outbursts arise out of frustration, but are usually smoothed over.

The Cano situation? It's plausible. Cano's a great player, but he comes with risks and it's not like the Seattle franchise will crumble into dust (or even lose value) if they let Cano walk.
   24. Pat Rapper's Delight Posted: December 06, 2013 at 11:33 AM (#4611831)
Maybe Howard Lincoln "exploded" literally rather than just figuratively. It's hard to return to the negotiating table when you are distributed in small fragments around the boardroom.

All that was left was a little green globule on his seat. Like a stain, really.
   25. Commissioner Bud Black Beltre Hillman Posted: December 06, 2013 at 11:34 AM (#4611833)
Is that weird?
Nah, explaining how amazingly rational you are and expressing disbelief at how other people so silly things based on emotion is pretty normal for the stat geek set.
   26. SteveF Posted: December 06, 2013 at 11:35 AM (#4611834)
Jay Z isn't actually at the negotiating table. Brodie Van Wagenen is actually the one doing the negotiating (at least when he's not surfing or hanging out with his frat brothers) but Jay Z is 'intimately involved,' whatever the #### that means.
   27. JJ1986 Posted: December 06, 2013 at 11:36 AM (#4611836)
   28. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: December 06, 2013 at 11:50 AM (#4611858)
Heyman now says a Mariner deal is close

That's a twitter link. The entirety of the tweet is "mariners are close to a deal with Robinson Cano" but I figured I'd give him the link.
   29. TerpNats Posted: December 06, 2013 at 11:51 AM (#4611861)
10 years, $252 million...where have we heard those numbers before?

Unless Cano believes his 2009 ring is sufficient for his collection, I'd still be shocked if he wound up with a non-contender.
   30. Howie Menckel Posted: December 06, 2013 at 11:57 AM (#4611865)

"I'd still be shocked if he wound up with a non-contender."

I'd be shocked if he took an offer that's 5 cents less than a competing offer.

   31. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: December 06, 2013 at 11:59 AM (#4611870)

I'd be shocked if he took an offer that's 5 cents less than a competing offer.



This. The amount of guys that have taken less money to play for a contender < the amount of guys that have taken top dollar to play for a perceived "non-contender."
   32. Esoteric Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:00 PM (#4611873)
10yrs/240 million. It's official.
   33. JJ1986 Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:02 PM (#4611878)
Jay-Z really overplayed that one.
   34. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:04 PM (#4611879)
Holy ####.
   35. Esoteric Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:05 PM (#4611882)
As a Mariners fan, I'm really left gasping for breath on this one.

A horrifying overpay in any rational sense. And yet...
   36. SteveF Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:05 PM (#4611883)
I'm looking forward to Dave Cameron's figurative aneurysm.
   37. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:05 PM (#4611884)
Jay-Z really overplayed that one.

Ha! The Mariners are nuts, but good for them.
   38. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:08 PM (#4611886)
Robinson Cano got $240 million from Jack Z to play baseball for the Mariners.

I don't think Jay Z orchestrated this deal. I think 'dzop did.
   39. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:09 PM (#4611887)
This is fun news on so many levels:

Great seeing the Yankees get outbid.
Great seeing the Mariners make yet another awful move (sorry Mariners fans).
Great to see Robbie get paid
Hilarious seeing the NY media get apopleptic at a player choosing podunk hinterlands Seattle over the only city that matters
Hilarious that Jay Z was involved in this.
   40. Esoteric Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:09 PM (#4611888)
The Mariners just Texas Ranger-ed the Yankees, but the crazy thing is that they did it with eyes wide open.

Hey, you know what? #### it - it ain't my money and Seattle's got a ton to spend.
   41. Textbook Editor Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:12 PM (#4611896)
This truly is funny. And now Ellsbury has 7 years to deal with the "we signed you and let a true Yankee leave" shitstorm. Hysterical.
   42. Best Regards, President of Comfort Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:12 PM (#4611897)
Short-term, this kills the Yankees. But in five years they'll be happy they didn't top it.
   43. JJ1986 Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:12 PM (#4611898)
Random question, but who actually owns the Mariners right now? Their majority owner (55%) died in September.
   44. Sonic Youk Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:12 PM (#4611899)
so right after they sign ellsbury, the Yankees lose their best player for a deal that not even the mouthbreathingest Yankee fan would want them to sign.
   45. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:12 PM (#4611900)
Considering this contract and the Royals trading Myers for Shields, is overpaying for relevancy now A Thing?
   46. 'zop sympathizes with the wrong ####### people Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:13 PM (#4611901)
I don't think Jay Z orchestrated this deal. I think 'dzop did.


I am experiencing glee, yes.
   47. 'zop sympathizes with the wrong ####### people Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:14 PM (#4611902)
Short-term, this kills the Yankees. But in five years they'll be happy they didn't top it.


Does inspire some faith that the Yankees are not being run by total idiots. Granted that smarter than Jack Z is a low bar, but still.
   48. Yastrzemski in left. Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:14 PM (#4611904)
This is hilarious. Can't wait to see Mariners beat out the Yankees for the wild card spot.
   49. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:14 PM (#4611905)
After two years the Mariners will eat half the contract and trade him to the Rangers, where he will become the world's least popular athlete and six years later be given a groundless 211-game suspension.
   50. Nasty Nate Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:16 PM (#4611912)
I'd guess a Mariners' fan response might be similar to a Sox' fan response when they signed Manny: pumped up at getting the player, but slightly shuddering at the contract. I hope Cano stays as healthy and productive as Manny did.
   51. Ray (RDP) Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:17 PM (#4611913)
This is fun news on so many levels:

Great seeing the Yankees get outbid.


As I said immediately after the Ellsbury signing, I think they simply chose Ellsbury over Cano.

I think they'd rather have Ellsbury at 7/150 than Cano at 10/250 or whatever. They apparently went up to $200 million for Cano but that was as high as they were willing to go.

So I don't see it really as they "got outbid," as if they were going red hot after him and the Mariners won. (Assuming of course that the Mariners will sign him.)
   52. AROM Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:18 PM (#4611914)
In the last 5 years of this contract, I can see Cano hitting .280/.320/.400 while playing awful defense. Yipee.

Coke's on me, 'zop.
   53. BrianBrianson Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:18 PM (#4611915)
I'd be shocked if he took an offer that's 5 cents less than a competing offer.


Meh. There's value in playing for certain teams, which can include winners, and big markets, that comes from improved outlets for endorsement deals and the like. If the Yankees offer you a nickel less than some independent team in Uranium City, North-West Territories, take the Yankees deal and make up the difference, and then some, in TV ads & whatnot.
   54. NJ in DC Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:18 PM (#4611916)
It's gonna be really funny when Cano is a .280/.320/.400 1B towards the end of the deal. Truly sad to see my favorite player go though.
   55. NJ in DC Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:20 PM (#4611920)
Also, I just thought about what kind of contract Mike Trout is going to get in 4 years. Jesus.
   56. Howie Menckel Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:20 PM (#4611921)
"now Ellsbury has 7 years to deal with the "we signed you and let a true Yankee leave" shitstorm. Hysterical."

Lots of Yankees fans don't consider Cano a "true Yankee" - doesn't hustle, they say, and went 3 for 40 last postseason. If Ellsbury runs out ground outs, he'll be more popular than Cano hitting doubles but barely making it to second base off a slow start out of the box.

   57. Textbook Editor Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:20 PM (#4611922)
The question really is where does Cano go once 2B isn't a viable position for him? Can he shift to 3B on the back end of the contract period? If so, you'd think his bat wouldn't be bad there, even with a normal decline, but if the move is 2B-->DH in 6 years, all of a sudden you have your DH slot tied up for 4 years at $24 million per year and you may not even get league-average production out of the DH slot.

Of course, the chances of him being in Seattle on the last day of his 10-year deal is basically 0%.
   58. tfbg9 Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:21 PM (#4611924)
LOL WUT

This is the 1st time this kind of thing has ever happened. Wow.
   59. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:22 PM (#4611925)
Random question, but who actually owns the Mariners right now? Their majority owner (55%) died in September.


Yamauchi transferred his ownership to "Nintendo of America" which is the controlling owner right now, represented by Howard Lincoln.
   60. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:22 PM (#4611926)
but if the move is 2B-->DH in 6 years, all of a sudden you have your DH slot tied up for 4 years at $24 million per year and you may not even get league-average production out of the DH slot.

Still better than Jose Vidro.
   61. Textbook Editor Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:24 PM (#4611930)
Lots of Yankees fans don't consider Cano a "true Yankee" - doesn't hustle, they say, and went 3 for 40 last postseason. If Ellsbury runs out grounders, he'll be more popular than Cano hitting doubles but barely making it to second base off a slow start out of the box.


Duly noted. But Cano is about 100% more true Yankee than Ellsbury could ever hope to be. And once Jeter retires, who is left to carry the "true Yankee" mantle? Gardner? From Yankee fans I know, the homegrown angle matters, but the Yankee fans I know may not be in the mainstream...
   62. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:24 PM (#4611931)
The question really is where does Cano go once 2B isn't a viable position for him? Can he shift to 3B on the back end of the contract period? If so, you'd think his bat wouldn't be bad there, even with a normal decline, but if the move is 2B-->DH in 6 years, all of a sudden you have your DH slot tied up for 4 years at $24 million per year and you may not even get league-average production out of the DH slot.


I think 3rd base could work and I don't see any reason he couldn't follow the Carew path of moving to 1st if his bat is still playing. I think Cano is more likely to be able to shift positions and be productive than Ellsbury though I'd rather have Ellsbury on the contracts they both signed.
   63. Ray (RDP) Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:25 PM (#4611932)
He's already 31, and the track record for top 2B as they approach their mid 30s is not good.

Maybe he will be an exception.
   64. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:26 PM (#4611933)
 'zop sympathizes with the wrong ####### people


Ok, this change of handle made me smile
   65. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:27 PM (#4611934)
The Winter Meetings are going to be so anti-climactic. What a Hot Stove!
   66. tfbg9 Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:27 PM (#4611935)
Cano in Safeco: 163 PA's: .309/.350/.487
   67. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:28 PM (#4611939)
Looking over the M's team, what they really need now are a couple of starting pitchers and I think they've got a team. The offense looks ok taking into account the ballpark. Tanaka, if he gets posted, and Bartolo Colon and there you go. The AL West will be a freaking bear of a division.
   68. Esoteric Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:28 PM (#4611940)
By the way, I just want to point out that it seems like EVERY SINGLE TIME an article with "Team breaks of talks with [Free Agent X]" gets posted, it is immediately followed-up in the comments section with "oh wait, Team just agrees to redonkulous deal with [Free Agent X]." Reliable negative indicator! And I suspect it isn't coincidental.
   69. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:29 PM (#4611941)
If the Mariners get Price or someone like that (Samardzija, Scherzer), a couple of real OF they could be a real contender. I wouldn't discount their chances. They now have a puncher's chance.
   70. Howie Menckel Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:29 PM (#4611942)

darren rovell ?@darrenrovell 5m

Difference between income tax savings in Seattle vs NY is about $25M for Cano, per @SportsTaxMan

   71. Nasty Nate Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:29 PM (#4611943)
all of a sudden you have your DH slot tied up for 4 years at $24 million per year


For a long contract, it doesn't really matter if the value provided in any individual year matches up with that year's salary.
   72. Esoteric Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:30 PM (#4611944)
Cano in Safeco: 163 PA's: .309/.350/.487
Not too shabby, and they also brought the fences in significantly last season so the park is now playing neutral for the first time its history.

Boy I sure hope we don't get 2008-vintage Cano next year. That's going to be even more painful for me than 2011-vintage Werth was for the Nationals.
   73. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:31 PM (#4611949)
The Winter Meetings are going to be so anti-climactic. What a Hot Stove!

Nah we'll see a 14 team trade involving Brett Anderson, David Price and 42 other people where the A's somehow end up with Erubiel Durazo.
   74. Esoteric Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:32 PM (#4611951)
The Mariners already have two of the best SPs in the American League with Felix and Iwakuma (who continues to be comically underrated by everyone not living within 30 miles of the Space Needle). If they trade Tajuan Walker for David Price -- a move which horrifies people like Dave Cameron but which I'm actually okay with -- then they suddenly have an incredible top three.

The problem is the offense. Cano, plus Kyle Seager and the corpse of Willie Bloomquist ain't makin' it in any division, much less the AL West.
   75. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:33 PM (#4611953)
The Mariners already have two of the best SPs in the American League with Felix and Iwakuma (who continues to be comically underrated by everyone not living within 30 miles of the Space Needle).

Who together made up about 2/3 of their payroll, until this happened.
   76. Brian Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:33 PM (#4611955)
Random question, but who actually owns the Mariners right now? Their majority owner (55%) died in September.


Cano.
   77. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:35 PM (#4611958)
FWIW, ZIPS has Cano's worth at $221.4MM over 10.
Yearly WAR breakdown of Cano projection - 5.5, 5.2, 5.0, 4.6, 4.0, 3.3, 2.8, 2.2, 1.6, 1.1
   78. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:35 PM (#4611959)
The problem is the offense. Cano, plus Kyle Seager and the corpse of Willie Bloomquist ain't makin' it in any division, much less the AL West.
True, but they also have Brad Miller and Mike Zunino. They do have a sprawling chasm in the OF, 1B, and DH, but getting cromulent people there isn't impossible.
   79. Textbook Editor Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:37 PM (#4611962)
Looking over the M's team, what they really need now are a couple of starting pitchers and I think they've got a team.


I know where you get pick up a slightly used Ryan Dempster for around $12 million...
   80. Ephus Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:37 PM (#4611964)
I do not know whether Boras would also have gotten this deal, but I guarantee you that Jay-Z will use it effectively to attract other MLB players to his agency.
   81. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:38 PM (#4611965)
They do have a sprawling chasm in the OF, 1B, and DH, but getting cromulent people there isn't impossible.
Might the M's have any interest in Andre Ethier?
   82. tfbg9 Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:39 PM (#4611967)
This thing totally needs its own thread, no?
   83. TVerik, the gum-snappin' hairdresser Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:39 PM (#4611970)
Robbie's a hell of a player. But there are times that he looks like he's never going to hit a baseball again. I've never seen an elite player who slumps like that, and then inexplicably gets white-hot. To his vast credit, he has improved the ratio between these two things and learned to take a few walks in the last few years.

Also, I don't know if it's related, but when he gets a "take" sign at the plate, he visibly relaxes at the plate, leaving him in no position to hit the ball. Again, I've never seen another elite player do that.
   84. Esmailyn Gonzalez Sr. Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:39 PM (#4611971)
"New York. Concrete bunghole where dreams are made up. There's nothing you can do." Liz Lemon
   85. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:40 PM (#4611972)
"Robinson Cano cared about winning and the Yankee way before he was seduced by a rapper like Jay Z who is only about money." #hotsportstake
   86. Dale Sams Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:40 PM (#4611973)
So in the last week, the Yankees signed "Can't hold a candle to Melky Jacoby Ellsbury" to a bajillion dollars, and they lost "Pedey can't hold his jock strap Robinson Cano"
   87. JJ1986 Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:41 PM (#4611976)
Might the M's have any interest in Andre Ethier?


They've been rumored to want Kemp all offseason. If they add Morales and an outfielder, it's not a terrible offense.

Miller, (Kemp), Cano, Morales, Seager, Smoak, Saunders, Zunino, Ackley.
   88. Eric Ferguson Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:41 PM (#4611977)
So Beltran to Royals and then Butler-for-Franklin?
   89. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:42 PM (#4611979)
And once Jeter retires, who is left to carry the "true Yankee" mantle?


Cervelli? Or maybe they'll bring Pettitte out of retirement again?
   90. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:43 PM (#4611983)
I just hired Jay Z to negotiate my holiday bonus.
   91. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:43 PM (#4611984)
I've never seen an elite player who slumps like that, and then inexplicably gets white-hot.


Reggie Sanders?
   92. tfbg9 Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:43 PM (#4611985)
Let the smearing begin!
   93. tfbg9 Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:45 PM (#4611990)
Mets got Grandy. 4 years.
   94. tfbg9 Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:45 PM (#4611991)
4 years 60 mil.
   95. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:46 PM (#4611993)
Let the smearing begin!


Robinson Cano never really liked New York. There are two ways to go - show you want to be here, or get out of here as soon as you get the chance. The Yanks will be better off with Kelly Johnson who will provide 75% of the production at a fraction of the cost.
   96. Nasty Nate Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:47 PM (#4611997)
I just hired Jay Z to negotiate my holiday bonus.


"A year's subscription to the jelly-of-the-month club"

"Clark, that's the gift that keeps on giving throughout the entire year. "
   97. Chip Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:47 PM (#4612000)
If Ellsbury runs out ground outs, he'll be more popular than Cano hitting doubles but barely making it to second base off a slow start out of the box.


Ellsbury is weirdly slow out of the box for a guy with his speed, because the natural momentum of his swing kills his first step. You won't see it on doubles - he more than makes up for it by the time he's rounding first - but on potential infield hits and the back end of double plays. He hits a surprising number of the latter where you're sure there's no way they're going to turn it against a guy with wheels, and suddenly he's barely out and the rally has been killed. He's not jogging like Cano does, though, so the fans don't notice it for booing purposes.
   98. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:48 PM (#4612001)
Miller, (Kemp), Cano, Morales, Seager, Smoak, Saunders, Zunino, Ackley.

Ackley still has some upside I guess but Smoak and Saunders are terrible. The good news is it's not that hard to improve upon them.

So Beltran to Royals and then Butler-for-Franklin?

This might make sense if they didn't sign Morales, but if they do, then Franklin probably goes for an OF.
   99. JJ1986 Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:48 PM (#4612003)
Big fan of Granderson, and he gives the Mets a real corner outfielder for the first time in 3 years. Seems like they could have stuck to 3 years, but he definitely makes the team better.
   100. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: December 06, 2013 at 12:49 PM (#4612005)
Mets got Grandy. 4 years.

I have no idea what the Mets are doing. Do they have any hope?
Big fan of Granderson, and he gives the Mets a real corner outfielder for the first time in 3 years. Seems like they could have stuck to 3 years, but he definitely makes the team better.

Sure by a couple of wins but they're still not a contender
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