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Monday, July 25, 2011

Mariners lose 15th straight

Tim Wakefield also got his 2000th K as a member of the Red Sox.

rr Posted: July 25, 2011 at 01:30 AM | 49 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: general

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   1. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: July 25, 2011 at 03:36 AM (#3884540)
King Felix will look good on the Yankees. Hughes, Laird, and Cervelli should be enough.
   2. Voros McCracken of Pinkus Posted: July 25, 2011 at 03:43 AM (#3884543)
Franklin Gutierrez is having a shocker of a season. Makes Adam Dunn's look like Bonds. 28 OPS+ Figgins has been nearly as bad and has been more healthy.
   3. Jim (jimmuscomp) Posted: July 25, 2011 at 03:45 AM (#3884545)
It's almost sad how awful they are doing....

Almost.
   4. Ray (RDP) Posted: July 25, 2011 at 03:54 AM (#3884546)
Smoak hasn't gotten a hit in about a month.

.118/.188/.145 over the last 28 days.

WTF is going on over there.
   5. RJ in TO Posted: July 25, 2011 at 04:03 AM (#3884550)
Currently, the WAR leader among Mariners' position players in Brendan Ryan. Incredibly enough, he is also their team leader in oWAR.
   6. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: July 25, 2011 at 04:05 AM (#3884552)
All I can think of now is this ####### game. An 18 game winning streak collided with a 14 games losing streak in the first team's park, with the first team's undefeated starting pitcher having won the first 17 starts of his career, and the first team's future HoF first baseman primed to get his 2000th hit. And of course anyone can guess what happened.
   7. Random Transaction Generator Posted: July 25, 2011 at 04:51 AM (#3884566)
They were at .500 when the losing streak started, and only 2.5 games back of the division lead.

They are now 14.5 games back.
   8. steagles Posted: July 25, 2011 at 05:02 AM (#3884570)
All I can think of now is this ####### game. An 18 game winning streak collided with a 14 games losing streak in the first team's park, with the first team's undefeated starting pitcher having won the first 17 starts of his career, and the first team's future HoF first baseman primed to get his 2000th hit. And of course anyone can guess what happened.
i'd just like to say ad-block plus is absolutely awesome. i've had problems for months with BR's boxscores bogging down firefox to the point where the computer would cease functioning for minutes.


anyway, with adblock plus, i just set up a filter to block anything off this url (http://www.baseball-reference.com/js/*), and the issue is completely gone. i'm not too sure how vital the javascript was to the implementation of the website, but my experience has been significantly better without it.
   9. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: July 25, 2011 at 05:03 AM (#3884572)
It certainly didn't help that the Rangers decided to reel off a dozen consecutive victories during this Mariners losing streak.
   10. Infinite Joost (Voxter) Posted: July 25, 2011 at 05:49 AM (#3884577)
The M's are so ####### depressing.
   11. Walt Davis Posted: July 25, 2011 at 06:21 AM (#3884580)
Looking on the bright side, Ms pitchers have a 200 BA.

Looking on the dark side, that's higher than 10 of their position players.
   12. Spahn Insane Posted: July 25, 2011 at 08:03 AM (#3884591)
I'm less shocked by the 15-game losing streak than I am by the fact that they were at .500 when it started. That's a pretty bad team.
   13. TVerik, the gum-snappin' hairdresser Posted: July 25, 2011 at 11:38 AM (#3884605)
I really hate when a team on a long losing streak plays my team, particularly when my team is home. If you beat them 2/3, they still snapped their streak against you. In no other series is less than 3/3 a failure.
   14. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: July 25, 2011 at 12:02 PM (#3884611)
I feel for Jack Z. He's good people

The fanbase, not so much
   15. Mike Emeigh Posted: July 25, 2011 at 12:41 PM (#3884620)
It certainly didn't help that the Rangers decided to reel off a dozen consecutive victories during this Mariners losing streak.


Of course, four of those were AGAINST the Mariners. Seattle scored two runs in those four games.

It's a team with no offense playing in a pitchers' park - more to the point, it's a relatively *old* team (offensively, anyway) with no offense playing in a pitchers' park. They don't have a lot of younger options available - the best ones they have (Smoak and Ackley) are already playing, and the other ones that they have aren't nearly ready to contribute on a regular basis (if they will ever be). The rebuilding road is going to be long and painful.

-- MWE
   16. Der Komminsk-sar Posted: July 25, 2011 at 01:04 PM (#3884631)
Currently, the WAR leader among Mariners' position players in Brendan Ryan. Incredibly enough, he is also their team leader in oWAR.

The other day I saw a bit on the M's by Christina Kahrl, who wrote:

The Mariners picked up light-hitting Brendan Ryan to add his slick fielding up the middle in their infield, figuring that they could afford the bat that had already cost him his job with the Cardinals -- and they were wrong. If any lineup can’t afford Ryan, it’s the Mariners, not when they’re not getting offense from anywhere in the lineup.

...which struck me as curious. As many things as have gone wrong for or were tactical errors by them, the Ryan pickup has not been one of them. (Also, I think it was clubhouse/off-field stuff, more than the bat, that cost him his job.)
   17. TVerik, the gum-snappin' hairdresser Posted: July 25, 2011 at 01:05 PM (#3884633)
I haven't watched the Mariners recently, but I have access to bb-ref:

2011 Mariners

With that sort of pitching, even a team of popgun hitters should be able to win at least a game each week or so. The odds of them losing fifteen in a row must be completely off the charts.
   18. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 25, 2011 at 01:10 PM (#3884636)
I haven't watched the Mariners recently, but I have access to bb-ref:

2011 Mariners

With that sort of pitching, even a team of popgun hitters should be able to win at least a game each week or so. The odds of them losing fifteen in a row must be completely off the charts.


Did you stroll by the batting section?

The 78 OPS+ more than offsets the 108 ERA+. The ERAs look gaudy, but a lot of that is Safeco.
   19. base ball chick Posted: July 25, 2011 at 01:12 PM (#3884638)
Mike Emeigh Posted: July 25, 2011 at 08:41 AM (#3884620)

It's a team with no offense playing in a pitchers' park - more to the point, it's a relatively *old* team (offensively, anyway) with no offense playing in a pitchers' park. They don't have a lot of younger options available - the best ones they have (Smoak and Ackley) are already playing, and the other ones that they have aren't nearly ready to contribute on a regular basis (if they will ever be). The rebuilding road is going to be long and painful.

-- MWE


- this sounds horribly like the astros
- i don't understand why the mariners can't seem to get any ballplayers who can hit
   20. TVerik, the gum-snappin' hairdresser Posted: July 25, 2011 at 01:14 PM (#3884642)
Did you stroll by the batting section?

The 78 OPS+ more than offsets the 108 ERA+. The ERAs look gaudy, but a lot of that is Safeco.


I did. I don't contend that they're worldbeaters, or even on the fringes of the "race to suck the least" that the playoffs have become.
   21. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: July 25, 2011 at 01:17 PM (#3884643)
Mike

Um, they trade them away?
   22. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: July 25, 2011 at 01:17 PM (#3884644)
I'm with Erik. With that staff you'd think you'd stumble into a 2-1 win somewhere along the way.
   23. RJ in TO Posted: July 25, 2011 at 01:20 PM (#3884646)
I'm with Erik. With that staff you'd think you'd stumble into a 2-1 win somewhere along the way.

What makes you think they can score 2? Did you miss the part about Brendan Ryan being their most valuable offensive contributor this year?
   24. zack Posted: July 25, 2011 at 01:43 PM (#3884660)
Those numbers just make me think the park factor for Safeco is off this year. I think the same about the Mets.
   25. formerly dp Posted: July 25, 2011 at 01:46 PM (#3884661)
Mike Carp finally looks like he's putting it together. That's...something. 17 K in 64 AB isn't very promising though.
   26. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: July 25, 2011 at 01:59 PM (#3884676)
I really hate when a team on a long losing streak plays my team, particularly when my team is home. If you beat them 2/3, they still snapped their streak against you. In no other series is less than 3/3 a failure.


The very first baseball game I ever attended at Royals Stadium was like the 14th or 15th game of the Orioles 21 game losing streak. Us Royals fans were on pins and needles as we were losing much of the game. But the O's came through in the end, losing in the eighth.
   27. Baldrick Posted: July 25, 2011 at 02:01 PM (#3884677)
It's astonishing how bad the M's offense is this year. Even worse than last year, maybe.

I know we don't put much stock in batting average, but think about this: the highest BA on the team is Ackley at .297 in 121 plate appearances. The next highest is Ichiro at .268.

That includes all players (except for P Doug Fister who is 2/6). You'd think one guy with 20 PAs would stumble into a .300, but no.

Adam Moore, 6 PAs: .167
Kyle Seager, 25, .136
Mike Wilson, 28, .148
Josh Bard, 37, .222
Chris Gimenez, 50, .171

3 guys listed as starters on BB-Ref are under .200, and four more are under .230.

They have no power. They draw few walks. They don't steal bases. They don't even get hit by pitches. The team OBP is .289. The only thing they're good at is striking out.
   28. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: July 25, 2011 at 02:07 PM (#3884683)
Those numbers just make me think the park factor for Safeco is off this year. I think the same about the Mets.


BBREF doesn't update their park factors until near the end of the year

but in case you were wondering they are dead last in run scoring both home and away
They score 3.04/g at home and 3.46/g on the road

they give up 3.46 at home and 4.12 on the road
   29. The Essex Snead Posted: July 25, 2011 at 02:28 PM (#3884699)
On the plus side, they only owe Chone Figgins another $17 million over the next 2 years. Assuming they don't let him get 600 PAs in 2013; if they do that, a $9 million option kicks in for 2014.
   30. Dave Spiwak Posted: July 25, 2011 at 03:38 PM (#3884753)
And of course anyone can guess what happened.


That a 46-year-old Satchel Paige would get the save would not have been my guess!
   31. bunyon Posted: July 25, 2011 at 04:19 PM (#3884773)
- i don't understand why the mariners can't seem to get any ballplayers who can hit

They could hit if they wanted to.
   32. The Ghost is getting a Woody Posted: July 25, 2011 at 05:54 PM (#3884803)
Franklin Gutierrez has been having intestinal problems for a couple years. Little has been said about it lately, but I am hoping that it is the root cause of his slump and that he will be well by next spring. I think I heard that Smoak has a thumb problem, but not much out there about that, either.

Up through their last win, the pitching was incredible, the hitting lousy.
Then there were several games of very good pitching and sub-Mendoza hitting.
Then the bats woke up - but the pitching slumped.
And here we are.
   33. DCW3 Posted: July 25, 2011 at 06:18 PM (#3884817)
BBREF doesn't update their park factors until near the end of the year

This used to be the case, but now they update throughout the year.
   34. cardsfanboy Posted: July 25, 2011 at 06:48 PM (#3884836)
Tim Wakefield also got his 2000th K as a member of the Red Sox.


Some people might be surprised at how rare that actually is. On my Cardinal board someone was pointing out that it's kinda sad for a franchise as old as the Cardinals that Carpenter will probably finish the year second in strikeouts in his career as a Cardinal(which is 1095 to pass Dizzy Dean) so I was wondering how rare it was to get high strikeout totals with one franchise... From memory I think only Bob Gibson(Cardinals), Walter Johnson(Senators), Carlton(Phillies) and Smoltz(Braves) have recorded 3000 strikeouts with one franchise. (25 players have done it) Looking it up, pitchers with 2000 strikeouts for a franchise(current franchises)

Angels--Ryan, Finley.
Orioles--Palmer
Red Sox--Clemens, Wakefield
Indians-Feller, McDowell
Tigers--Lolich
Twins-Walter Johnson, Blyleven
Mariners-Randy
Diamondbacks-Randy
Braves-Smoltz, Niekro, Spahn, Glavine
Cubs-Fergie Jenkins
Dodgers- Sutton, Drysdale, Koufax.
Mets-Seaver
Phillies-Carlton
Giants-Mathewson, Marichal
Cardinal-Gibson
   35. The George Sherrill Selection Posted: July 26, 2011 at 04:15 AM (#3885349)
16!

How long until Howard and Chuck talk about how Z is "their guy" and they are "100% committed to him as GM of the club"?
   36. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: July 26, 2011 at 04:46 AM (#3885377)
2006: Traded Asdrubal Cabrera

2006; Traded Shin-Soo Choo

2008: Traded Adam Jones

2009: Traded Mike Morse

None of these guys is all world but that's real offense that would come in mighty handy about now
   37. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: July 26, 2011 at 04:47 AM (#3885379)
Not looking to take any cheap shots. It's a tough time in Seattle. But I wanted to provide the background to my earlier post.
   38. asinwreck Posted: July 26, 2011 at 05:00 AM (#3885391)
Does Zduriencik survive this? In the middle of a second straight year without any offense, has ownership given him the dreaded vote of confidence?
   39. Norcan Posted: July 26, 2011 at 05:12 AM (#3885403)
2006: Traded Asdrubal Cabrera

2006; Traded Shin-Soo Choo

2008: Traded Adam Jones

2009: Traded Mike Morse


And what about the players they traded for in expense of these players, who have two all-star games to their credit. Talk about incompetence. Eduardo Perez for Absdrubal?!!!! Then because Perez had been so successful, they went to the well again with Cleveland, trading Shin-Choo for Broussard. I can't blame them entirely for Bedard because at least he was coming off a dominant season and they had visions of creating a dominant front pairing in their rotation. They've been unlucky with him. And not many thought Morse could do what he's been doing.

Speaking of Morse, what has gone on with him? He must be on some serious horse steroids, which isn't too much of a stretch since he's been caught once already for PEDs. He went from playing a below average shortstop to maybe being the biggest position player in the game. He's got to be 6'5 and at least 265-270 and a lot of it is muscle.
   40. Infinite Joost (Voxter) Posted: July 26, 2011 at 05:29 AM (#3885446)
i don't understand why the mariners can't seem to get any ballplayers who can hit


The problem, in no uncertain terms, is that the Mariners' front office was bamboozled by cutting edge defensive metrics into thinking they could win with a shitty offense. Add in to that some bad risks and an aging star, and this is what you get.

The really incredible thing is that this was actually somewhat predictable. Look at that offense. Who could you really expect to be meaningfully better than they are? Ichiro? Figgins & Gutierrez -- kind of? This was the worst offense in baseball last year, and it was obviously the worst offense in baseball coming into this season. Losing 16 in a row (as it is now) is a shock, but so was being within shouting distance of .500 halfway through the season.

It's my considered opinion that Jack Z is obviously incompetent and ought to be shitcanned.
   41. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: July 26, 2011 at 05:35 AM (#3885457)
In Milwaukee Jack was the driving force in drafting offense

Crazy how things play out
   42. The George Sherrill Selection Posted: July 26, 2011 at 05:46 AM (#3885476)
You can't accuse Jack of drafting based on need this year, at least for the M's top pick.
   43. The Ghost is getting a Woody Posted: July 26, 2011 at 05:46 AM (#3885479)
16 tonight, and more Yankees tomorrow.

They have to do something to shake this up. Fire somebody. DFA somebody. Change uniforms. Anything.
   44. cabintwelve Posted: July 26, 2011 at 05:59 AM (#3885503)
In Milwaukee Jack was the driving force in drafting offense

I was in WI when Braun, Fielder, Weeks, Hart were up and something like 8 players were AA all-stars. I was so high on them and on Jack when he got the SEA job. Damn....

You can't accuse Jack of drafting based on need this year, at least for the M's top pick.

Really? Seamed to me he drafted the guy he could get to the majors the quickest to try show something...
   45. Norcan Posted: July 26, 2011 at 06:06 AM (#3885513)
The problem, in no uncertain terms, is that the Mariners' front office was bamboozled by cutting edge defensive metrics into thinking they could win with a shitty offense. Add in to that some bad risks and an aging star, and this is what you get.


I don't know that I necessarily agree. If they were playing someone like mientkiewicz at first and Fuld at left, then yeah, they'd purposely be sacrificing offense in an attempt to build an all-world defense. But Smoak is supposed to be a masher who has been horrible for months now and some of the guys they've tried in left (Peguero and Carp) are all-bat, bad-glove guys. Their hitters have just underperformed. Ichiro's been bad, Guttierez's season has been upended by his stomach problem, Figgins didn't rebound. I don't think the bad offense was by design.
   46. The George Sherrill Selection Posted: July 26, 2011 at 06:07 AM (#3885514)
Really? Seamed to me he drafted the guy he could get to the majors the quickest to try show something...


Except the Ms problem isn't (well, wasn't) pitching, it was hitting. Top pick was a pitcher.
   47. cabintwelve Posted: July 26, 2011 at 06:21 AM (#3885519)
I know. Not sure Hultzen qualified as the best available though....
   48.     Hey Gurl Posted: July 26, 2011 at 06:35 AM (#3885526)
So Chone Figgins has now hit .236./308/.286 in almost 1,000 PA as a Mariner. I didn't expect that to be a terrific signing but holy ####.

Edit: Huh. 702+299 is 1001 but BB-Ref's addition tool has it as 991. Something buggered there.
   49. Something Other Posted: July 26, 2011 at 06:50 AM (#3885530)
It's astonishing how bad the M's offense is this year. Even worse than last year, maybe.

I know we don't put much stock in batting average, but think about this: the highest BA on the team is Ackley at .297 in 121 plate appearances. The next highest is Ichiro at .268.
You want bad? Adam Kennedy has the third highest OPS+ among Mariners with more than 125 PAs. That's bad.

I know range factor/9 is ewwy, but I'm still surprised Kennedy's RF/9 is a hair below average at 2B for his career (4.90 v 4.91). 3B too. Odd.

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