I never saw a guy go so ice cold in his last 6 at-bats. Hit the bricks, choker.

Awww....Raul's like a loyal puppy-dog to the Mariners. No matter how many times he goes away, he just keeps on coming back.

Good god, the Mariners suck. What a ####### joke. Ibanez? Are you ####### kidding me? It's like they're not even trying. After yet another crap season, they haven't done one thing that makes me think they'll be anything but crap again this year. Is Morales supposed to be their big acquisition that gets fans excited? I assume they're just hoping that having the Astros in the division will be them look better by default. They've got plenty of money but won't spend on anything but the least interesting players possible.

EDIT: Sorry for the rant. The Mariners are just so boring it hurts.

2013 Mariners lineup:

2B Ackley
CF Gutierrez
3B Seager
DH Montero
DH Morales
DH Ibanez
DH Smoak
C Jaso
SS Ryan

2013 Mariners lineup:

2B Ackley
CF Gutierrez
3B Seager
DH Montero
DH Morales
DH Ibanez
DH Smoak
C Jaso
SS Ryan

I think Smoak might be sent down to Tacoma and maybe Carp is in there somewhere, but your point still stands.

Jaso played more games at DH than C last year too. I think they go with a five-DH lineup and call up that Zunino guy to play the entire right half of the field. Gutierrez can catch anything hit between shortstop and the right field bleachers.

Pretty amazing that they split C between three players, two of them actually played more DH than C, and the one who didn't was legendary defensive whiz Miguel Olivo.

Wow, this is a dumb signing for a well-regarded GM. It probably won't hurt too much, as long as they don't give him a glove or play him in front of the four better options at DH...

Ugh.

Wow, this is a dumb signing for a well-regarded GM.

Is it though? The money has to be tiny, the M's have no real chance next season. Bringing back a fan favorite(is he?) at the end of his career for a back-up roll on a non-contender for little money makes fine sense to me.

This team is going to be AWFUL defensively. And the payoff is - THEY CAN'T HIT.

I don't get this at all. This is one team that might make Blanton look decent.

Bringing back a fan favorite(is he?) at the end of his career for a back-up roll on a non-contender for little money makes fine sense to me.

Not really. I mean, he was well-liked, but it's not like anyone was clamoring for him to come back. There's no reason for Ibanez to be taking PA away from the many other DHs already crowding the M's roster. It's just depressingly pointless.

this is a dumb signing for a well-regarded GM

There are still people who regard Jack Z well?

The good news is the Ms have no money committed beyond 2014. The bad news is that means Felix is gone after 2014 if not earlier.

In fairness, they'll have potentially 16 arb-eligible players in 2015. In unfairness, 5 of those players will be 30 or older.

Whoa, hold on, currently on the Ms roster with guaranteed deals for 2013:

Ibanez
Jason Bay
Oliver Perez

Ibanez
Jason Bay
Oliver Perez

Players who were much much much better in 2006 are the new thing.

The M's under Z have drafted well and have generally traded well, except for batsp. Figgins was an unforeseeable mistake. Most of the bad moves have been little ones: Griffey, Olivo, Peguero, Liddi in the OF, etc.
I suppose Bay, Bonderman, Ibanez are little ones, too. But yuck

I never saw a guy go so ice cold in his last 6 at-bats. Hit the bricks, choker.

Clearly you never watched the 2002 playoffs. Tom Goodwin went 0-9 with 6 strikeouts in the NLCS and WS. His bat barely ever touched the ball and when it did and he managed to move the ball in a forward direction it didn't leave the infield. Naturally the Cubs sign him the next year.

Oh goody, we can add to this list of funny animated GIFs of Raul Ibanez playing the outfield for the Seattle Mariners.

Exhibit A

Exhibit B

Exhibit C

My personal favorite

The Standard Bearer

The M's under Z have drafted well and have generally traded well, except for batsp. Figgins was an unforeseeable mistake. Most of the bad moves have been little ones: Griffey, Olivo, Peguero, Liddi in the OF, etc.

Doesn't seem like they handled the Cliff Lee trades very well. Seems foolish of them to have acquired him in the first place, and it doesn't seam like they got a great haul for him once they cut bait. He also dealt a very useful pitcher in Doug Fister for basically nothing.

Milton Bradley for Carlos Silva was a terrible and pointless trade.

Bringing back a fan favorite(is he?) at the end of his career for a back-up roll on a non-contender for little money makes fine sense to me.

Seems like the Mariners went down this road a couple of season's ago with a different lefthanded OF.

#16 - I still laugh uncontrollably at "the standard bearer"....

Doesn't seem like they handled the Cliff Lee trades very well. Seems foolish of them to have acquired him in the first place, and it doesn't seam like they got a great haul for him once they cut bait. He also dealt a very useful pitcher in Doug Fister for basically nothing.

Agree on Fister, but Smoak and Beavan were considered a lot better than Aumont and whatever else they traded to the Phillies. Smoak sucking since then has made the whole thing pretty much a wash. Smoak and Montero were considered by many to be two of the best minor league hitters around. They might still reclaim that accolade..

Figgins was an unforeseeable mistake.

If so, then why did so many people complain about it when it happened?

Because speed, defense, and OBP are generally undervalued?

At one year and $2.75 million, why are so many folks bummed out? Has Raul been guaranteed a starting job?

EDIT: I guess this means goodbye to Mike Carp?

Holy ####! The Mariners signed the Yankees' cleanup hitter! This is huge, people!!!

What astounds me about Figgins is that the Mariners gave him 29 starts in left field last year! Plus 1 start in right, so 30 starts in the corner outfield for a guy coming off a 2011 with an OPS+ of 40. I guess he was in the middle of his bounceback 2012 - 54 OPS+

There are still people who regard Jack Z well?

Yeah, hard to see him as better than mediocre at this point.

A good GM should be able to avoid 283 losses inn his 2nd-4th seasons. Hell, his first season (when he had mostly Bavasi's talent) is still his best by 10 wins.

Because speed, defense, and OBP are generally undervalued?

No one around here undervalues OBP. As for defense, the M's took a guy over 30 who'd been a 3B/OF for the previous 5 years and and made him a 2B, with predictably terrible results.

Figgins was no more than an averageish utility defensive player in his 20s. He had two big seasons at ages 29 and 31 where his BABIP spiked (.393 and .356 respectively). He was a useful complementary piece, and Zduriencik paid him $36M for his age 32-35 seasons.

Oh goody, we can add to this list of funny animated GIFs of Raul Ibanez playing the outfield for the Seattle Mariners.

Exhibit A

Exhibit B

"Exhibit B" is hard to see--does he dive for the ball, only for the ball to hit him on the head or shoulder?

i see the mariners are doing their best to beat the astros to last place

NO CHANCE!!!

which reminds me - can someone please explain why over the past 7 or so years suddenly nobody can hit in a mariners' uniform at safeco when they hadn't done anything to the stadium? even raul ibanez hit well there his second go round. but no one after him and i don't understand why.

I never saw a guy go so ice cold in his last 6 at-bats. Hit the bricks, choker.

Clearly you never watched the 2002 playoffs. Tom Goodwin went 0-9 with 6 strikeouts in the NLCS and WS. His bat barely ever touched the ball and when it did and he managed to move the ball in a forward direction it didn't leave the infield. Naturally the Cubs sign him the next year.

Your post has made me begin to question the sincerity of my own words.

Seattle signs Jason Bay and Raul Ibanez. Sounds like satire. Ticks me off because I wanted to see Casper Wells get his chance. Don't give me numbers, this is simply because I grew up with his Dad and uncles and they are great guys.

There are still people who regard Jack Z well?

My immediate thought to that comment! Why should we be anything but skeptical of him at this point? Maybe he'll turn things around and become better (he has yet to do anything nearly as moronic as Jon Daniels making the Adam Eaton trade and Daniels turned things around nicely) but so far he has shown no ability to build a good team. Three losing records in a row (and as Snapper pointed out his only winning team was the one he had the least influence over) and absolutely no reason to believe that this season will be any different. It's nice that he supposedly has drafted well but you can say the same about Chuck Lamar and Dayton Moore.

The Jack Z files:

Ken Griffey
Chone Figgins
Corey Patterson
Chris Seddon
Jack Wilson
Josh Wilson
Kanekoa Teixeira
Eliezer Alfonso
Mike Koplove
Cliff Lee (good trade, Phils were idiots)
Ryan Langerhans
Milton Bradley
Brandon League (for Brandon Morrow)
Josh Bard
Chris Woodward
Casey Kotchmann (for Bill Hall)
Eric Byrnes
Ryan Garko
Erik Bedard
Jesus Colome
Mike Sweeney
Ramon Vazquez
Billy Traber
Russ Branyan (for two mlers)
Justin Smoak et al (for Cliff Lee, bad trade)
Jamey Wright
traded away Jack Hannahan for nothing
Tug Hulett
Ian Snell
Erik Bedard again
traded away Jose Lopez (finally!)
Jack Cust
Brendan Ryan (good trade, Cards were idiots)
Ryan Langerhans again
Denny Bautista
Chris Gimenez
Royce Ring
Miguel Olivo
Josh Bard again
Adam Kennedy
Nate Robertson
Jody Gerut
Jamey Wright again
Manny Delcarmen
Aaron Laffey
Garrett Olson
Wily Mo Pena!!!!
traded away Doug Fister (bad trade)
traded away Bedard (anybody any good come back?)
John Jaso (for Josh Lueke ... probably a good trade)
Chris Gimenez again
George Sherrill
Hiroshi Iwakuma (good signing)
Aaron Heilman (no really)
Oliver Perez (so far so good actually)
Jesus Montero (for Michael Pineda)
Kevin Millwood
Carlos Guillen
Shawn Camp
Hong-Chih Kuo
traded Brandon League (doesn't look like much)
Eric Thames (for Steve Delabar)
Robert Andino
Jason Bay
Kendrys Morales (for Jason Vargas)
Jeremy Bonderman

Now any GM will have a long list of fliers like that ... but have any of those fliers worked out for the M's? Look at how few good players there are in that list. You've got Cliff Lee, Brendan Ryan, Russ Branyan, John Jaso and Kendrys Morales. Lee was soon traded away for players who don't seem to be paying off. Both Lee and Ryan are the result of their old teams being morons and deciding they had to trade them -- still credit to Jack Z to volunteer to take those guys off their hands but he really benefited from other teams' largesse. For Lee and Morales (and Montero) he gave up real talent in return plus he traded away Fister for not very much.

Anyway, like I say, any GM would have a long list but where's the stud reliever nobody was expecting or the league-average starter or the guy who's a 115 OPS+ corner OF for three years? Even the good moves he's made -- Ryan, Branyan, Jaso, maybe Morales -- are of the "league-average" variety.

A good GM is somehow supposed to tell the difference. Even when he picks up respected talent (Smoak and Montero are really the only examples), it hasn't paid off (still time for Montero).

Where are the genuinely good players he's added?

Ahh, Iwakuma. There's the one real feather in his cap over the last 4 seasons.

Maybe he's hamstrung by ownership, he inherited something of an empty farm system as I recall. But so did Dayton Moore and Neal Huntington and he hasn't out-GM'd those guys that I can see (and hasn't out-drafted them either from what folks here say). He's shown no eye for ML talent, no eye for picking minor-league talent off of other teams and seems to give away as much talent in trade as he gets in.

If Jack Z is well-regarded then they all are -- which is probably true but doesn't tell us anything.

Well, when you put it that way...

And certainly, anyone who sticks with Eric Wedge as manager can't be accused of excessively good judgement.

The M's farm system will be ranked top-10 this year, but of course they have benefited from strong draft position. Some SABR oriented folks have generally been supportive of his regime. Maybe the lack of performance by Ackley, Smoak, Montero, etc. hasn't been held against him, and maybe it should be? In two years, the M's will be above .500 or he'll be out, deservedly or otherwise, I suspect.

Some SABR oriented folks have generally been supportive of his regime.

Paging Dave Cameron ... there's a call for you on line 6.

Merry Christmas!

Figgins was no more than an averageish utility defensive player in his 20s. He had two big seasons at ages 29 and 31 where his BABIP spiked (.393 and .356 respectively). He was a useful complementary piece, and Zduriencik paid him $36M for his age 32-35 seasons.

A player with over 2 WAR in five of his first six full seasons (and 1.1 in his first half season) is not an average utility player. He's an average starter. With one or two all-star type seasons, driven by high BA, sure. But he was an average to average+ player. Who apparently had several of his major limbs removed during the off season that he signed with Seattle.

Tug Hulett?

Also, I wonder if this thread differs from the one that happened with last year's signing?

Yeah, but Tug Hulett was signed to play in Tacoma, wasn't he?

Sure, but how many Tug Hulett shout-outs do you see? :-)

I was just naming everybody with a recognizable name. There were a good many more even more obscure than Hulett. Of course Hulett wasn't expected to do anything but be emergency callup ... but you still expect some of that random filler to actually break through and do something. It's usually not Tug Hulett but you don't really expect it to be AJ Ellis or Bryan LaHair either.

At least he didn't sign Tim Hulett (deep into his decline phase).

He traded somebody for Hulett.

YOu have to give him credit for getting Gutierrez and Vargas. That was a great trade.