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Wednesday, April 11, 2018

Marlins argue they’re from a Caribbean Island

The Marlins are claiming corporate citizenship in the foreign territory in order to have an arbitrator take over a lawsuit filed by Miami and Miami-Dade County in a dispute over the profits from the team’s sale last year, according to the Miami Herald.

But could Marlins Teamco (a subsidiary of Marlins Funding, a subsidiary of Marlins Holdings LLC) win the Caribbean World Series?

Walt Davis Posted: April 11, 2018 at 08:18 AM | 38 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: loria, marlins

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   1. bunyon Posted: April 11, 2018 at 08:31 AM (#5651275)
No.
   2. McCoy Posted: April 11, 2018 at 08:35 AM (#5651279)
Is Cohen giving them legal advice?
   3. Shredder Posted: April 11, 2018 at 08:55 AM (#5651301)
Explains their low attendance. Miami is a long way to travel for the local fan base.
   4. villageidiom Posted: April 11, 2018 at 09:01 AM (#5651308)
They... they're literally saying their baseball business is interstate commerce? (blinking gif)

OK, let's have fun with this. If the Marlins business is interstate commerce, then:

1. Teams should be allowed to relocate to Miami. They might not be able to relocate to anywhere else, but the Marlins have said their business is interstate commerce. Thus it is not subject to the exemption from Federal Baseball Club v. National League, and the Sherman Act applies. The Marlins cannot act as a monopoly to restrict competition.

2. Congress can enact laws to regulate ticket and concession prices for baseball in Miami. It's interstate commerce. Charging far above cost for these things is monopolistic behavior. Nope.

What else?
   5. Rally Posted: April 11, 2018 at 09:18 AM (#5651326)
It shouldn't take more than a few big storms flooding central Florida to separate southern Florida from the mainland.
   6. RickA. Posted: April 11, 2018 at 09:28 AM (#5651339)
Thought this was an Onion headline at first.
   7. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: April 11, 2018 at 09:55 AM (#5651360)
Alan Dershowitz wants you to know he is NOT giving the Marlins legal advice.
   8. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: April 11, 2018 at 10:02 AM (#5651362)
What else?


Potentially subject to tariffs if a trade war breaks out?
   9. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: April 11, 2018 at 10:13 AM (#5651368)
It shouldn't take more than a few big storms flooding central Florida to separate southern Florida from the mainland.


That makes no sense. Central Florida is the highest elevation in the state. Granted, it's not very high, but the western suburbs of Orlando are ~300 feet higher than Miami.
   10. Golfing Great Mitch Cumstein Posted: April 11, 2018 at 10:32 AM (#5651376)
They... they're literally saying their baseball business is interstate commerce? (blinking gif)

They are not arguing that at all.
The original article explains the issue much better.
   11. Nasty Nate Posted: April 11, 2018 at 10:37 AM (#5651379)
Yeah, wouldn't being from a Caribbean island be International ... not Interstate?
   12. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: April 11, 2018 at 10:50 AM (#5651383)
It shouldn't take more than a few big storms flooding central Florida to separate southern Florida from the mainland.


I say why take any risks.
   13. Yonder Alonso in misguided trousers (cardinal) Posted: April 11, 2018 at 11:37 AM (#5651401)
More importantly, from the article linked in post 10:

and the Gimenez administration is trying to accommodate Jeter's request to move the ballpark's county-owned "Homer" home-run sculpture off the property.


Come on, that garish monstrosity is almost the only likable thing about the Marlins.
   14. Jose is an Absurd Force of Nature Posted: April 11, 2018 at 11:49 AM (#5651416)
I am from a Cuban family. Not surprisingly we have a lot of family members in Miami. When my aunt got engaged to a guy from Maine we all went to Miami for Christmas. As we were getting ready to board the flight back he looked at the wine he had been given as a gift and said “how will I get this through customs?” The immersion in a different culture in Miami was so complete he genuinely forgot he hadn’t left the country.
   15. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: April 11, 2018 at 11:57 AM (#5651422)
The most dispicably run franchise ever?

From Fangraphs the other day:

The Marlins Will Sue Almost Anyone
   16. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: April 11, 2018 at 12:09 PM (#5651433)
YEAH TAX CHEETS
   17. jmurph Posted: April 11, 2018 at 01:19 PM (#5651490)
The British Virgin Islands entity, Abernue Ltd., is a part owner of Marlins Holdings LLC, which owns Marlins Funding, which owns Marlins Teamco, the company that owns the team

America. Hoo boy.
   18. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: April 11, 2018 at 01:54 PM (#5651506)
Nothing specifically American about having holding companies holding other holding companies holding other holding companies for tax evasion. The elite do it worldwide. Check out the Panama Papers.
   19. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: April 11, 2018 at 02:21 PM (#5651521)
Nothing specifically American about having holding companies holding other holding companies holding other holding companies for tax evasion. The elite do it worldwide. Check out the Panama Papers.


Doug Wesley: Alan Brady works for Alan Brady Productions.
Rob Petrie: Yeah, but he owns it.
Doug Wesley: Ah, but Alan Brady Productions is a subsidiary of Reliance Industries.
Rob Petrie: [clears throat] What, uh... what's a Reliance Industries?
Doug Wesley: Reliance Industries owns The Cliff Barnett Show and they run a fleet of shrimp boats in the Gulf of Mexico.
Doug Wesley: You see, you and Sally and Buddy are not employed by the same firm.
Rob Petrie: We're not?
Doug Wesley: No, no, no. You, Rob, as head writer, are an executive, and all our executives are paid by Alan's Japanese company, Ishimoru.
Rob Petrie: Ishimoru, is that Japanese?
Doug Wesley: Oh, yes, yes.
Rob Petrie: You know, I always thought that was a combination of Alan's kids' names.
Doug Wesley: No. No. No, they make motorcycles, Rob.
Rob Petrie: And, and, they, uh, they pay me. Well, then, who... who pays Buddy and Sally?
Doug Wesley: Tam O'Shanter Ltd. of Scotland.
Rob Petrie: Why can't Tam O'Shanter Ltd. of Scotland give them a raise, then?
Doug Wesley: They're not doing too well right now, Rob.
Rob Petrie: [looking at their sizable corporate binder] They're not? With a book that thick, they're not? What, uh... what do THEY make?
Doug Wesley: Mm, right now, very bad investments, but a few years ago they were doing very well.
Rob Petrie: Well, what... what did they make then?
Doug Wesley: The Martin and Lewis coloring book.
   20. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: April 11, 2018 at 02:22 PM (#5651522)
America. Hoo boy.
Corporations are people, my friend. Better people, with more rights.
   21. bunyon Posted: April 11, 2018 at 02:26 PM (#5651524)
If corporations are people, then it should be impossible for one to own another.
   22. jmurph Posted: April 11, 2018 at 02:50 PM (#5651535)
Nothing specifically American about having holding companies holding other holding companies holding other holding companies for tax evasion. The elite do it worldwide. Check out the Panama Papers.

Fair. I almost went with "Lawyers. Hoo boy." But you know how that can get around here...
   23. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: April 11, 2018 at 02:55 PM (#5651542)
Shooty Inc from now on. I'll let you losers pay for all my services.
   24. The Yankee Clapper Posted: April 11, 2018 at 04:04 PM (#5651632)
From the link in #10:
Lawyers representing the Marlins told a federal judge that at least one corporation that owns part of Marlins Teamco — the company Jeter and majority owner Bruce Sherman formed last year to buy the franchise — is based in the Caribbean. As a result, team lawyers argued, the dispute with Miami-Dade should be governed by jurisdictional rules that apply to international disputes.

Don't know if the argument will be successful, but that is the issue.
   25. Rennie's Tenet Posted: April 11, 2018 at 04:07 PM (#5651637)
the dispute with Miami-Dade should be governed by jurisdictional rules that apply to international disputes.


This is why you really do need gunboats from time to time.
   26. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: April 11, 2018 at 04:34 PM (#5651657)
I don't know if this article was posted here, but the Marlins are so petty:

After the Marlins rejected [Laurence Leavy aka Marlins Man's] most recent offer to renew his season tickets — $200,000 over three years — he declared himself a free agent and is expected to “sign” with, of all teams, the Detroit Tigers.

...

Here’s Leavy discussing it in a piece by Darren Rovell at ESPN:

“They said that I did nothing for the team, I don’t promote the Marlins, nobody buys season tickets because of me, nobody buys advertising because of me, and they don’t care what I do.”


I don't know if that's true, but the Marlins should not be turning away ANY fans.
   27. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: April 11, 2018 at 04:53 PM (#5651682)
Kudos to any organist who plays "Kokomo" while the Marlins are taking the field at a visiting ballpark.
   28. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: April 11, 2018 at 05:02 PM (#5651693)
I don't know if that's true, but the Marlins should not be turning away ANY fans.
Is there an advantage to be gained by the Marlins keeping attendance down? Did it allow them some sort of spreadsheet manipulation to have fewer people come in?
   29. Stevis Posted: April 11, 2018 at 08:32 PM (#5651841)
Is there an advantage to be gained by the Marlins keeping attendance down? Did it allow them some sort of spreadsheet manipulation to have fewer people come in?

If attendance is low enough they can move to Cleveland
   30. crict Posted: April 11, 2018 at 09:27 PM (#5651909)
Quick Marlins attendance question: in 2002, Jeffrey Loria's Marlins barely beat the Montreal Expos at the box office: 813,118 to 812,545. Or did they? That was only after an "unnamed fan" bought 18,000 tickets for the last game. Should that count? Should the 2002 Expos be, forever, listed as last in attendance in 2002? Should there be some sort of asterisk? Any other manipulations like this?
   31. Buck Coats Posted: April 12, 2018 at 04:33 AM (#5652059)
Loved post 19
   32. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: April 12, 2018 at 08:00 AM (#5652070)
What happens to the Marlins if John Henry never purchases the Red Sox? He's an excellent owner and pretty savvy with local media and politics, he won over both the Boston and Liverpool media, both of which are pretty insular and critical of outsiders. And the core of the team he built from the post-1997 firesale won the 2003 WS. If he stays in FL, does this mean Loria never gets the team, and the Marlins have a fairly savvy owner who has the resources to make them a normal franchise and build fan loyalty?
   33. Dr. Vaux Posted: April 12, 2018 at 08:54 AM (#5652086)
Meanwhile, Jeffery Loria buys the Red Sox and . . . they still win three World Series.
   34. Nasty Nate Posted: April 12, 2018 at 09:20 AM (#5652092)
In alternate timelines, Loria was eaten by wasps and never owned any MLB teams.
   35. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: April 12, 2018 at 12:54 PM (#5652297)

After the Marlins rejected [Laurence Leavy aka Marlins Man's] most recent offer to renew his season tickets — $200,000 over three years — he declared himself a free agent and is expected to “sign” with, of all teams, the Detroit Tigers.

Not sure I understand. Was he asking the Marlins to pay him $200,000 to attend, or was he offering to buy the tickets at below list price?
   36. Walt Davis Posted: April 12, 2018 at 04:17 PM (#5652489)
And the core of the team he built from the post-1997 firesale won the 2003 WS.

FWIW, the 97 firesale didn't form a core. Alou, Nenn, Conine, Devon White (I always forget he was there) brought back nothing that ever had value. Kevin Brown did bring back Derrek Lee, Leiter brought back Burnett and the Sheffield-Piazza shuffle turned into Preston Wilson. That's 2 solid players (Lee didn't really peak until the Cubs) plus an excellent pitcher so it wasn't nothing but most of the 2003 team came post-fire sale or through the draft.
   37. ReggieThomasLives Posted: April 12, 2018 at 06:04 PM (#5652582)
Not sure I understand. Was he asking the Marlins to pay him $200,000 to attend, or was he offering to buy the tickets at below list price?


I think face value of the tickets was $270,000 IIRC, and he wanted to pay only $200,000. They were arguing over the discount he should get for a three year commitment, and he brought up his public persona as a benefit to the team. So they decided to insult him.

And I will deny it if it is ever repeated claimed that I defended Jeter, but in his defense, the seller, Loria, is the one who owes the city a proceeds of the sale, not the buyer. They first need to establish the amount of the liability, and try to collect it from Loria, and failing that go after the team. I'd also be shocked if the new owners weren't indemnified by Loria for this.
   38. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: April 12, 2018 at 06:21 PM (#5652590)
I think face value of the tickets was $270,000 IIRC
How much money does one have to have before "$270k for three seasons of Marlins tickets" starts to seem like a reasonable idea?

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