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Tuesday, November 13, 2012

Marlins trade Jose Reyes, Josh Johnson, Mark Buehrle, others to Toronto Blue Jays

Get the ballpark built, then dump payroll. Got to love Loria and Samson:

An industry source has confirmed that the Marlins have traded five players to the Toronto Blue Jays — right-handed starter Josh Johnson, left-handed starter Mark Buehrle, shortstop Jose Reyes, outfielder Emilio Bonifacio and catcher John Buck.

The Marlins will get shortstop Yunel Escobar and infielder Adeiny Hechavarria along with pitchers Henderson Alvarez and Justin Nicolino, according to FoxSports.com.

 

Mike Emeigh Posted: November 13, 2012 at 08:06 PM | 317 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: blue jays, business, marlins

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   201. Nasty Nate Posted: November 14, 2012 at 12:04 PM (#4302332)
I have a weird feeling the Marlins will win more games than the Blue Jays in 2013.
   202. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: November 14, 2012 at 12:07 PM (#4302336)
Yes. What's he take home at the end of a hard day of grafting and crying poor?

I assume it's a pretty similar amount to that of all the other teams who recently whined their way to a publicly funded new stadium.


What a curious assumption.
   203. Paul D(uda) Posted: November 14, 2012 at 12:11 PM (#4302349)
I have a weird feeling the Marlins will win more games than the Blue Jays in 2013.

This is insanity.
   204. Tom Nawrocki Posted: November 14, 2012 at 12:19 PM (#4302361)
What a curious assumption.


Yeah, I would assume Young Masters Steinbrenner make a lot more money every year than Loria.

And at least Loria has to work to keep his grift going; YMS have just been handed everything they've ever gotten in life.
   205. Rants Mulliniks Posted: November 14, 2012 at 12:21 PM (#4302366)
This is insanity.


I learned this year to never be too sure in your assumptions. Back in March, I told a friend I'd give him a gold watch if the Jays won more games than the Red Sox. If you'd told me then that they Jays were about to have their worst season since 2004, I'd have thrown in a gold necklace and earrings for his wife. Then the 2012 season happened.
   206. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: November 14, 2012 at 12:25 PM (#4302375)
Yeah, I would assume Young Masters Steinbrenner make a lot more money every year than Loria.


You'd like to think running a popular, successful, iconic franchise would be more rewarding that running a welfare scheme in the same business, but all we seem to have is assumptions, yes?

And at least Loria has to work to keep his grift going


Sucking up to Bud Selig may be many things, but I doubt it qualifies as work.

YMS have just been handed everything they've ever gotten in life.


I don't think you really want to defend the welfare Marlins on the basis of who is beholden to unearned handouts. If you'd like to talk about how much of a refund the Yankees are entitled to from the years prior to Mr. Steinbrenner's sad demise I might be willing to accept your sincerity on the topic.
   207. Tom Nawrocki Posted: November 14, 2012 at 12:27 PM (#4302379)

You'd like to think <strikethrough>running</strikethrough> being given a popular, successful, iconic franchise would be more rewarding


FTFY.

If you'd like to talk about how much of a refund the Yankees are entitled to from the years prior to Mr. Steinbrenner's sad demise I might be willing to accept your sincerity on the topic.


The Yankees are entitled to a refund of whatever Mr. Steinbrenner didn't freely agree to share with his business partners.
   208. Voros McCracken of Pinkus Posted: November 14, 2012 at 12:34 PM (#4302387)
Back in March, I told a friend I'd give him a gold watch if the Jays won more games than the Red Sox.

That was your first mistake, the Red Sox are really good at handing out watches.
   209. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: November 14, 2012 at 12:37 PM (#4302393)
I have a weird feeling the Marlins will win more games than the Blue Jays in 2013.


I'm not willing to go that far but I think there is a good chance the Jays are still fourth in the east. Reyes and Johnson are injury risks and Buehrle is a mid 30s soft tosser with a low k rate. There is every reason to believe this trade will improve Toronto but I'm not sold. The cost was minimal enough that I wish my Red Sox had done it but I wouldn't be stashing playoff ticket money if they had and I don't think the Jays should be either.
   210. Randy Jones Posted: November 14, 2012 at 12:38 PM (#4302395)
The Yankees are entitled to a refund of whatever Mr. Steinbrenner didn't freely agree to share with his business partners.


Actually, wasn't Steinbrenner the only owner to vote against revenue sharing?
   211. Spahn Insane Posted: November 14, 2012 at 12:46 PM (#4302405)
Haven't read the whole thread yet, but: anyone have any thoughts on how Reyes might fare playing half his games on turf? Seems a little dicey for a guy with a history of leg problems.
   212. dlf Posted: November 14, 2012 at 12:58 PM (#4302424)
Well played Voros!
   213. Paul D(uda) Posted: November 14, 2012 at 01:07 PM (#4302435)
I'm not willing to go that far but I think there is a good chance the Jays are still fourth in the east. Reyes and Johnson are injury risks and Buehrle is a mid 30s soft tosser with a low k rate. There is every reason to believe this trade will improve Toronto but I'm not sold.

You can question the trade, but the idea that it won't improve the Jays seems a bit nuts. Johnson and Buehrle are taking the rotation spots of Henderson Alvarez and Aaron Laffey. They will outperform those guys.
   214. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: November 14, 2012 at 01:08 PM (#4302436)
The ultimate workhorse Mark Buehrle joins a team that averages 7.5 season-ending starting pitcher injuries per year. Something's gotta give.
   215. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: November 14, 2012 at 01:13 PM (#4302441)
You can question the trade, but the idea that it won't improve the Jays seems a bit nuts. Johnson and Buehrle are taking the rotation spots of Henderson Alvarez and Aaron Laffey. They will outperform those guys.


Yeah I worded that badly. It will improve them but I don't think it's a slam dunk to vault them into contention.
   216. DiPoto Cabengo Posted: November 14, 2012 at 01:15 PM (#4302445)
If I didn't know any better, I'd say the Jays were the MLB version of the Lakers, getting sucker deals constantly thrown their way. The Jays are in a good situation in that they can expand payroll (as they now have!), so they can probe for these kinds of deals -- most small market teams can't even go there.
   217. formerly dp Posted: November 14, 2012 at 01:22 PM (#4302454)
Yeah I worded that badly. It will improve them but I don't think it's a slam dunk to vault them into contention.

Agreed. But the wreckage that was 2012 left the team in a weird position-- they had some surprise good years, balanced by a boatload of bad breaks. So many things went poorly that I'd forgotten all about the Santos injury.

Anyone want to give a quick capsule summary on why Romero imploded?
   218. Matthew E Posted: November 14, 2012 at 01:37 PM (#4302486)
they had some surprise good years


One. They had one surprise good year: Encarnacion. Well, I guess you could argue for Janssen, even if what he did was more a function of his role than of a big improvement.

Romero was pitching through pain all year, it turns out. He denied it at the time but just recently had some kind of surgery to clean out his elbow. There had also been some speculation that his changeup had gotten too good, to the point where nobody would swing at it, and that cramped his style. If you don't like either of those as explanations, I can't help you, because nobody's come up with anything else. There is room for some optimism that he'll be his old self in 2013. But who knows.
   219. formerly dp Posted: November 14, 2012 at 01:43 PM (#4302490)
Thanks for the summary-- sounds like room for optimism. No where to go but up after a year like that...
   220. Greg K Posted: November 14, 2012 at 01:45 PM (#4302492)
Romero was pitching through pain all year, it turns out. He denied it at the time but just recently had some kind of surgery to clean out his elbow.

I hadn't heard that one. If true that doesn't make me like Romero very much. You would have figured at some point during the six straight months of sucking and frenzied attempts to figure out what was wrong he would have come clean.
   221. Rants Mulliniks Posted: November 14, 2012 at 01:47 PM (#4302493)
I'm hopeful about 2013 now, but that's as far as I'm willing to go. If they can stay healthy, which is a huge if, they'll be a great team.
   222. Greg K Posted: November 14, 2012 at 01:49 PM (#4302495)
Weird, reports that the Jays checked on Bobby Cox's availability to manage.
   223. zack Posted: November 14, 2012 at 01:50 PM (#4302496)
Haven't read the whole thread yet, but: anyone have any thoughts on how Reyes might fare playing half his games on turf? Seems a little dicey for a guy with a history of leg problems.


Reyes' leg problems were muscular, not joints or ligaments/tendons as I recall. Early on he had reoccuring hamstring problems, then the big one was a calf strain.
   224. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: November 14, 2012 at 01:51 PM (#4302497)
Thanks for the free stadium, suckers!!!
   225. Greg K Posted: November 14, 2012 at 01:51 PM (#4302498)
Yeah I think the "contenders" word being bandied about on the internet may be a bit presumptuous, but there's room for optimism. I'd phrase it as, I can envision a scenario in which the Jays are competitive in 2013. That wasn't true 48 hours ago.
   226. I am Ted F'ing Williams Posted: November 14, 2012 at 01:52 PM (#4302501)
Doesn't this #### the Athletics chances of landing a new stadium? What city would ever trust a team ever again? Bud should act in the best interests of the game on that point alone.


In Selig fashion, he'll probably let the Oakland owners take over the Miami franchise and MLB will operate the A's until they can find a legislative body full of suckers.
   227. DJS and the Infinite Sadness Posted: November 14, 2012 at 01:55 PM (#4302503)
Reyes' leg problems were muscular, not joints or ligaments/tendons as I recall. Early on he had reoccuring hamstring problems, then the big one was a calf strain.

Would it be a really big deal anyway? The Jays switched to more modern types of artificial turf years ago.
   228. Matthew E Posted: November 14, 2012 at 01:57 PM (#4302508)
You would have figured at some point during the six straight months of sucking and frenzied attempts to figure out what was wrong he would have come clean.
Yeah. Not to take any of the responsibility away from him, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Jays had expressed a preference that Romero power through it since they had just about run out of starting pitchers at one point.
   229. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: November 14, 2012 at 01:58 PM (#4302509)
The Selig bashing is overkill. He has no obligation to do anything other than what's best for his business. If the people and government of Miami and other locales where MLB is asking for public funding don't read the reams of data demonstrating what a bad idea it is that's on them, not on Selig.
   230. SoSH U at work Posted: November 14, 2012 at 01:58 PM (#4302510)
Weird, reports that the Jays checked on Bobby Cox's availability to manage.


I don't know, I think that sounds like a pretty good idea.
   231. Greg K Posted: November 14, 2012 at 02:01 PM (#4302513)
I don't know, I think that sounds like a pretty good idea.

Oh yeah, I agree, and it certainly can't hurt to check. It just never would have occurred to me to ask.
   232. zack Posted: November 14, 2012 at 02:03 PM (#4302516)
The Selig bashing is overkill. He has no obligation to do anything other than what's best for his business. If the people and government of Miami and other locales where MLB is asking for public funding don't read the reams of data demonstrating what a bad idea it is that's on them, not on Selig.


His replacement is going to look at the NBA, NFL and NHL and start thinking salary cap and we're going to lose a season, so I hope Selig reigns forever.

Which seems quite possible. How long-lived are Skeksis?
   233. Nasty Nate Posted: November 14, 2012 at 02:05 PM (#4302517)
The Selig bashing is overkill. He has no obligation to do anything other than what's best for his business. If the people and government of Miami and other locales where MLB is asking for public funding don't read the reams of data demonstrating what a bad idea it is that's on them, not on Selig.


But if he, or his people, are involved in bribing those government decision-makers, it is on him.
   234. Harmon "Thread Killer" Microbrew Posted: November 14, 2012 at 02:14 PM (#4302526)
What with Roy Hartsfield and Bobby Mattick no longer of this world, Cox was deemed the next best thing for 2013's "Flashback Fridays"?
   235. Shrike Posted: November 14, 2012 at 02:18 PM (#4302528)
[221] is where I'm at, too. It's November. Things will change between now and when the games actually get played.
   236. depletion Posted: November 14, 2012 at 02:20 PM (#4302531)
The Selig bashing is overkill. He has no obligation to do anything other than what's best for his business. If the people and government of Miami and other locales where MLB is asking for public funding don't read the reams of data demonstrating what a bad idea it is that's on them, not on Selig.

This is true on face value. However, they are in the entertainment business, where public perception is very important. Just as baseball personnel are forbidden to bet on games, lest the apparant integrity of the game is diminished, similarly if team owners stack the roster with A-ballers just to put a nominal team on the field and collect revenue sharing, it gives the public perception that MLB teams are not good community partners. Your point that the public officials are to blame is true; Bridge to Nowhere, Solyidra, Marlins Stadium... it just never ends.
I actually think the Marlins will be good again in 2 years or so. Every time they've had fire sales in the past it hasn't taken very long for them to improve.
   237. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: November 14, 2012 at 02:23 PM (#4302533)
The Selig bashing is overkill. He has no obligation to do anything other than what's best for his business. If the people and government of Miami and other locales where MLB is asking for public funding don't read the reams of data demonstrating what a bad idea it is that's on them, not on Selig.

This is partly true. Selig and Loria are in the 1% because they've mastered the art of taking the 99%'s money and making it theirs. I guess if the 99% is just going to sit there and let it happen, there isn't much that can be done about it, but at some point somebody needs to shake some sense into people.

Two-point-four billion in debt for Jeffrey Loria's and Bud Selig's private business? What possibly could have convinced you this was a good idea? Wake the #### up, people.

Wake the #### up.
   238. Petunia inquires about ponies Posted: November 14, 2012 at 02:24 PM (#4302534)
[167]: You can fudge the numbers all you like. For one, in Loria's first year, the Marlins only won 79 games. It wasn't till his second year that they won 91 games and the WS. Weird way for holdover effect to manifest itself, eh?

2003 Marlins had six players record more than 1.0 bbref batting WAR (the next two guys on the list included as a bonus):
Luis Castillo 4.2 - Amateur FA signed 1992
Ivan Rodriguez 4.2 - FA signed Jan 2003
Juan Pierre 3.4 - Acquired via trade w Rockies Nov 2002
Derrek Lee 2.6 - Acquired via trade w Padres Dec 1997
Mike Lowell 2.5 - Acquired via trade w Yankees Feb 1999
Alex Gonzalez 1.1 - Amateur FA signed 1994
Jeff Conine 0.8 - Acquired via trade w Orioles Aug 2003 (midseason acquisition)
Miguel Cabrera 0.5 - Amateur FA signed 1999

2003 Marlins had eight players record 1.0 or more bbref pitching WAR:
Dontrelle Willis 3.7 - Acquired via trade w Cubs Mar 2002
Josh Beckett 3.6 - Acquired via Amateur draft (1st round) 1999
Mark Redman 3.6 - Acquired via trade w Tigers Jan 2003
Brad Penny 2.6 - Acquired via trade w D'Backs July 1999
Carl Pavano 2.1 - Acquired via trade w Expos Jul 2002
Ugueth Urbina 2.0 - Acquired via trade w Rangers Jul 2003 (midseason acquisition) (Adrian Gonzalez deal)
Braden Looper 1.1 - Acquired via trade w Cardinals Dec 1998
Chad Fox 1.0 - FA signed Aug 2003 (midseason signing, released by Red Sox Jul 30)

So, 16 most valuable players to that year's team, 39 WAR, give or take. 20.8 acquired during Loria's tenure.

Thought I'd take a look. Sorry for the poor methodology.
   239. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: November 14, 2012 at 02:25 PM (#4302537)
Who cheated baseball fans more? Jeffrey Loria, or Pete Rose?

Not even close.

Wake the #### up, people. Wake the #### up.
   240. Rants Mulliniks Posted: November 14, 2012 at 02:27 PM (#4302541)
Two-point-four billion in debt for Jeffrey Loria's and Bud Selig's private business? What possibly could have convinced you this was a good idea? Wake the #### up, people.

Wake the #### up.


Careful, SBB, you're treading dangerously close to getting accused of wearing a tinfoil hat.
   241. Tripon Posted: November 14, 2012 at 03:30 PM (#4302610)

Two-point-four billion in debt for Jeffrey Loria's and Bud Selig's private business? What possibly could have convinced you this was a good idea? Wake the #### up, people.

Wake the #### up.


Miami recalled the mayor who pushed the stadium deal and got it approved. The city still has to live with the repercussions of it though.
   242. valuearbitrageur Posted: November 14, 2012 at 04:33 PM (#4302730)
So, 16 most valuable players to that year's team, 39 WAR, give or take. 20.8 acquired during Loria's tenure.



Nope, only 4.2 WAR "acquired" during Loria's tenure through the signing of Pudge.

All of those trades were only made possible by the massive amount of talent Loria inherited when the MLB traded him the Marlins for the Expos. Here is a list of players they traded his first two years.

Antonio Alfonseca
Matt Clement
Ryan Dempster
Cliff Floyd
Wilton Guerrero
Claudio Vargas
Charles Johnson
Preston Wilson
Nate Robertson
Kevin Millar
Adrian Gonzalez
Denny Bautista

Here is players on the 2001 roster kept through 2003 (about 25 WAR that year)
Luis Castillo
Josh Beckett
Derrek Lee
Mike Lowell
Brad Penny
Braden Looper
Alex Gonzalez
Rick Helling
Miquel Cabrera
Ramon Castro
AJ Burnett
Mike Redmond

Loria started with a super deep organization (as well as substantial MLB subsidies), and used that organizational depth instead of revenues to keep his team competitive. But as that original bank of talent has been spent, their average results have declined. Since their last WS championship they are averaging 79 wins, 77 wins since he went to rock bottom payroll in 2006, 71 wins the last two years.

The bank is empty. This trade ain't gonna replenish it. The trend is clear, Beinfest is good, but he won't be able to stop them from averaging less than 70 wins over the next decade.
   243. Nats-Homer-in-DC Posted: November 14, 2012 at 06:04 PM (#4302860)
206.
Sucking up to Bud Selig may be many things, but I doubt it qualifies as work.


If there was any sucking up, it's because Loria desperately needed extra pressure on Dade County to threaten into a stadium deal.
What makes you think they're friends? Just because both are enemies of the disgruntled Expos' fans or public-financed stadium critics or revenue sharing critics doesn't mean they're allied. You seem to forget that Selig and Loria had a rather public fight over Loria's insistence he retain one of MLB's 30 franchises and Selig's plans to contract 2 of them. Friends don't normally threaten to sue each other.
   244. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: November 14, 2012 at 06:09 PM (#4302867)
The Selig bashing is overkill. He has no obligation to do anything other than what's best for his business.
Disagree. He's a human being, and he is bound by ethical norms like the rest of us. Cheating and lying and swindling are wrong. Profitable, but wrong.
   245. bunyon Posted: November 14, 2012 at 06:32 PM (#4302896)
Weird, reports that the Jays checked on Bobby Cox's availability to manage.

I saw Maddux and Glavine in line to get their passports renewed.
   246. bunyon Posted: November 14, 2012 at 06:33 PM (#4302897)
Careful, SBB, you're treading dangerously close to getting accused of wearing a tinfoil hat.

Hat? He looks like a baking potato.
   247. with Glavinesque control and Madduxian poise Posted: November 14, 2012 at 06:57 PM (#4302913)
Side note: do not wrap baking potatoes in foil. Oil and salt on the outside, couple holes poked in it, 350 for an hour (or whatever); time will vary based on your oven and the size of the potatoes; you can also vary the temperature successfully depending on how much time you have or what else you're baking. But wrapping in foil will actually steam rather than bake and it will #### the texture right up, as well as getting dumb soft skin instead of awesome crispy skin.
   248. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: November 14, 2012 at 07:04 PM (#4302918)
Reports are Logan Morrison is now on the trading block as is Ricky Nolasco. What would be the asking price for either of them?
   249. The Yankee Clapper Posted: November 14, 2012 at 07:06 PM (#4302920)
Microwave directions, too?
   250. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: November 14, 2012 at 07:07 PM (#4302922)
   251. Petunia inquires about ponies Posted: November 14, 2012 at 07:41 PM (#4302942)
They asked for that from Boston, and took THAT from Toronto?
   252. with Glavinesque control and Madduxian poise Posted: November 14, 2012 at 07:46 PM (#4302946)
I am not one for microwave baked potatoes, but these directions look pretty good.
   253. Snowboy Posted: November 14, 2012 at 08:02 PM (#4302953)
Tremendous trade by Anthopolous. Improves the Jays with five useful MLB players, and it only cost him one MLB player and some prospects. Yes, he'll be paying market price to those players, but he probably couldn't have signed a similar group of FA this winter and there were some genuine holes in the roster that needed to be filled (esp in the rotation.)

me today: I can't believe the Jays didn't have to give up Gose?
my American friend: what's gose, French for "anything?"

Oh here's a link about the tax implications for the players.

Traded Marlins Players Will Take $2 Million Tax Hit In Canada
   254. Gamingboy Posted: November 14, 2012 at 09:04 PM (#4302984)
And apparently Buehrle's dog is screwed: it's breed is banned in the whole province of Ontario.
   255. formerly dp Posted: November 14, 2012 at 09:36 PM (#4303000)
Reports are Logan Morrison is now on the trading block as is Ricky Nolasco. What would be the asking price for either of them?
Could the Jays have gotten him thrown in? Is Plan A really David Cooper?

Am I the only one that can't eyeball the Las Vegas league/park factor? I know all the numbers are inflated, but I still get hopeful when I see a guy like Cooper had a .900+ OPS there the last two years...the Jays can't bolt from that place fast enough.
   256. Good cripple hitter Posted: November 14, 2012 at 09:46 PM (#4303003)
Am I the only one that can't eyeball the Las Vegas league/park factor? I know all the numbers are inflated, but I still get hopeful when I see a guy like Cooper had a .900+ OPS there the last two years...the Jays can't bolt from that place fast enough.


I can't do that either. Luckily the Jays' AAA team is going to be in Buffalo next year with the Mets affiliate moving to Vegas.
   257. Snowboy Posted: November 14, 2012 at 09:53 PM (#4303007)
And apparently Buehrle's dog is screwed: it's breed is banned in the whole province of Ontario.

Yes, he has a pit bull. Not allowed.

I wonder about things like this, how off-field stuff will affect a player's performance? How will it affect Buehrle when he comes home and his dog isn't there? How will Jose Reyes react, moving from a warm climate and a city full of Latinos, to whitebread Toronto? He made the choice to go to Miami a year ago as a Free Agent - maybe he was aware, without a no-trade clause, that this could happen - but did he think it would be within a year? How will they all react to the purple money, and the blue money, and all the coins, and all the Pakistanis and the Sikhs, and the different education system (if they even bring their kids to Canada)? Etc.
   258. Jack Carter, calling Beleaguered Castle Posted: November 14, 2012 at 09:56 PM (#4303008)
Reyes projects as about a 4 win player. That's easily worth a contract in that range, given the money in the game and the excellent young-player skills that Reyes brings.

Per bbref, he's been above 2.8 once since '08; while fangraphs thinks he's about a 4 WAR player, that's based on much rosier defensive ratings (a 24 run (2.4 win) difference over the past 2 seasons, for instance) and defense is the first thing to go.
I too was a little startled at the 4 win claim, particularly as Matt didn't mention including age related decline therein. Despite his 160 games in 2012, Reyes played something like 133, 126, and 40 games the three years before that. My guess is Reyes will come up around 20m short on the return for his salary. The practical low end is probably around 10 wins in the next 5 years; with the high end around 18. A 6 win season isn't far-fetched, but Reyes is also more than capable of missing much of a season and being ineffective when he does play. Something like 5-4-3-2-1 (and not in that order) looks right. He'll be 34 when the contract ends, and it wouldn't really surprise me if he was done by the end of 2017. His career doesn't scream 'likely to age well', and by 2018 his bat won't play in a corner...

The Selig bashing is overkill. He has no obligation to do anything other than what's best for his business.
So if I can get away with dumping hexavalent chromium in your kids' drinking water because it increases my profit margin, that's okay?
   259. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: November 14, 2012 at 09:59 PM (#4303010)
Whitebread Toronto? Half of Toronto's population is foreign-born. Although not many are from Latin America compared to Asia, over 100,000 have Spanish as their native language.
   260. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: November 14, 2012 at 10:28 PM (#4303027)
Over 24 hours and no one here has asked if this is even legal?
   261. base ball chick Posted: November 14, 2012 at 10:47 PM (#4303037)
196. dlf Posted: November 14, 2012 at 11:33 AM (#4302294)

What I wouldn't give to be able to read John Brattain's take on this.


- what i wouldn't give to read his take on anything at all. i still miss him soooo much - and it will be 4 years come march



John and Doug Pappas are probably sharing a laugh over this right about now.


- funny, both my Dogss are named after them - Dog Pappas and Jana Brattain Dog.
I've taught them to growl/snarl when i say "jim crane" and "designated hitter"
now i'll hafta teach them to howl when i say "jeffrey loria"
   262. Lassus Posted: November 14, 2012 at 10:51 PM (#4303042)
What I wouldn't give to be able to read John Brattain's take on this.

Truth.


I wonder how Reyes is going to do on the turf. That stadium is so, so sad. Sorry, RJ.
   263. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: November 14, 2012 at 11:01 PM (#4303045)
RJ? Rosé Jeyes?
   264. Paul D(uda) Posted: November 14, 2012 at 11:04 PM (#4303046)

Toronto's one of (if not the) most diverse city in the world.
   265. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: November 14, 2012 at 11:05 PM (#4303047)
The Yankees are entitled to a refund of whatever Mr. Steinbrenner didn't freely agree to share with his business partners.

Actually, wasn't Steinbrenner the only owner to vote against revenue sharing?


Shhhh, he's on a roll.
   266.     Hey Gurl Posted: November 14, 2012 at 11:12 PM (#4303052)
The turf isnt what it used to be.
   267. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: November 15, 2012 at 07:38 AM (#4303190)
Reyes projects as about a 4 win player. That's easily worth a contract in that range, given the money in the game and the excellent young-player skills that Reyes brings.

(a) Per bbref, he's been above 2.8 once since '08; while fangraphs thinks he's about a 4 WAR player, that's based on much rosier defensive ratings (a 24 run (2.4 win) difference over the past 2 seasons, for instance) and defense is the first thing to go.

(b) I too was a little startled at the 4 win claim, particularly as Matt didn't mention including age related decline therein. Despite his 160 games in 2012, Reyes played something like 133, 126, and 40 games the three years before that.
'm just looking at a baseline here - this is a regressed, weighted average of Reyes' value over the last three years:

+14 Bat + 3 Run + 20 Rep + 6 Pos - 5 Def = +38 RAR

In the current offensive environment, it takes a little less that 10 runs created to contribute a full win, so that's about four wins. It's true that a lot of the value comes from 2011, but I know of no systematic evidence that players whose value is distributed unevenly over recent years are either worse or better bets to produce value in the future. (MGL's study of career years found that treating them as you would any other year, weighting and regressing, was the best approach.) And Reyes has already had a good season following his career year, just like the projections expected.

He's going to be 30, which really isn't particularly old for a free agent. He has all the classic young player skills that project a better aging curve. If you project 5% inflation, a current cost of $5.5M per win, and a half-win decline per year, Reyes projects to be worth a contract around 5/90 or 6/100.
   268. Lassus Posted: November 15, 2012 at 09:05 AM (#4303202)
RJ? Rosé Jeyes?

RJ in TO


The turf isnt what it used to be.

This is true. Still, turf is turf. Regardless, I hope at this revives Reyes a bit from last year. His last year in NY was awesome to watch, and I would like a few more years of that player in baseball.
   269. formerly dp Posted: November 15, 2012 at 10:40 AM (#4303248)
Regardless, I hope at this revives Reyes a bit from last year. His last year in NY was awesome to watch, and I would like a few more years of that player in baseball.
Plus, if that happens, Met fans will get the added benefit of seeing have a lot of great games against the Yankees. Did not heart having to root against Reyes last year when he came back to Citi.
   270. RJ in TO Posted: November 15, 2012 at 10:50 AM (#4303256)
I wonder how Reyes is going to do on the turf. That stadium is so, so sad. Sorry, RJ.

Meh. It's not as bad as people say, although it's certainly not wonderful. The upgrades from a couple years back have helped.

As for the turf, it's not the old-school cementish turf. He should be fine.
   271. Lassus Posted: November 15, 2012 at 12:08 PM (#4303325)
The upgrades from a couple years back have helped. As for the turf, it's not the old-school cementish turf. He should be fine.

I will admit I haven't been in the stadium since - gulp - 2001. The time, it scurries away like a pissed-off scorpion.
   272. villageidiom Posted: November 15, 2012 at 12:39 PM (#4303339)
Side note: do not wrap baking potatoes in foil. Oil and salt on the outside, couple holes poked in it, 350 for an hour (or whatever); time will vary based on your oven and the size of the potatoes; you can also vary the temperature successfully depending on how much time you have or what else you're baking. But wrapping in foil will actually steam rather than bake and it will #### the texture right up, as well as getting dumb soft skin instead of awesome crispy skin.
Wash the potatoes. While they're still damp, rub them generously with salt. Poke holes. Bake. If people want steamed potato skin, wrap in foil for 5-10 minutes after baking.
   273. Matthew E Posted: November 15, 2012 at 12:46 PM (#4303344)
Meh. It's not as bad as people say, although it's certainly not wonderful.
I agree. I think the place gets a bad rap. Things I like about it:

- no rainouts
- centrally located and convenient to transit
- clean
- CN Tower
- not like anywhere else

I don't claim it's a great ballpark. But Toronto could do a lot worse.
   274. Random Transaction Generator Posted: November 15, 2012 at 12:54 PM (#4303351)
whitebread Toronto


As someone else already said, Toronto is one of the most diverse cities in the world.

And when Caribana starts up in July, the place is just hopping.

How will they all react to the purple money, and the blue money, and all the coins,


purple money = $10 bills
blue money = $5 bills
coins = $1 and $2

I'm not sure how many of those they'll have on them.

   275. Random Transaction Generator Posted: November 15, 2012 at 12:58 PM (#4303352)
- no rainouts


I can not stress enough how important those two things are to Blue Jays fans.
When you considered the terrible situation before (Exhibition Place), SkyDome/Rogers Center is amazing.

My mom has said that they have a share of season tickets only because they are guaranteed to play the game that is scheduled AND the climate will be good for baseball (especially at night). If she had to worry about games getting cancelled, or it being too cold to go (in April/September), then she wouldn't be willing to shell out money in advance.
   276. AROM Posted: November 15, 2012 at 01:01 PM (#4303354)
Having 2 small children, there is no better way to watch baseball than from your hotel room inside the stadium. You can't do that anywhere else.
   277. Rants Mulliniks Posted: November 15, 2012 at 01:04 PM (#4303358)

purple money = $10 bills
blue money = $5 bills
coins = $1 and $2


Red money $50
Brown money $100
Burgundy money $1000 (no longer printed, but still in circulation)
   278. Random Transaction Generator Posted: November 15, 2012 at 01:08 PM (#4303362)
Red money $50
Brown money $100
Burgundy money $1000 (no longer printed, but still in circulation)


Have you seen the cool new $100 bills in Canada? See-through section and made of polymer?
Even though I can spend them anywhere, I think they are pretty damn cool.

   279. Fernigal McGunnigle has become a merry hat Posted: November 15, 2012 at 01:36 PM (#4303383)
As someone else already said, Toronto is one of the most diverse cities in the world.


Just to beat a dead horse, in 2006 there were 31 languages spoken as the primary "at home language" by 10,000 or more Toronto residents. The diversity of Toronto's diversity is what's so impressive about it. We tend to call a city "diverse" if it has big white, black, and Latino populations, but Toronto is made up half of white Canadians and half of a sampling of about everyone else on the planet. That's diverse diversity.
   280. Matthew E Posted: November 15, 2012 at 01:45 PM (#4303390)
As someone else already said, Toronto is one of the most diverse cities in the world.
The high school in Toronto that my brother and I went to was particularly diverse. My brother's geography class did a thing once where each kid wrote down the countries of birth of his or her four grandparents, and they put together a bar graph of which countries were most represented. The final bar graph had like a hundred and twenty countries on it and the bar for Canada was nowhere near the tallest one.
   281. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: November 15, 2012 at 02:01 PM (#4303401)
purple money = $10 bills
blue money = $5 bills
coins = $1 and $2


Wait, I thought $50 bills were blue. $10 bills are yellow, $5 are pink.
   282. The Yankee Clapper Posted: November 15, 2012 at 02:01 PM (#4303403)
I don't claim it's a great ballpark. But Toronto could do a lot worse.

How bad can it be - the Blue Jays drew over 4 million fans for three straight years. You'd think the word would have gotten around pretty quickly if it was a real problem.
   283. Papa Squid Posted: November 15, 2012 at 02:13 PM (#4303410)
Have you seen the cool new $100 bills in Canada? See-through section and made of polymer?


They unveiled the new $20s this week. Pretty cool...
   284. Bitter Mouse Posted: November 15, 2012 at 02:45 PM (#4303435)
The Selig bashing is overkill.


This is not, was not, and will never be true. Even when he does something good bashing is always appropriate. Now back to what this thread is really about ... potato recipes and currency.
   285. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: November 15, 2012 at 02:52 PM (#4303443)
The ultimate workhorse Mark Buehrle joins a team that averages 7.5 season-ending starting pitcher injuries per year. Something's gotta give.

Buerhle is being sent to a Toronto chop shop, where he will be broken down, and his parts distributed to the rest of the Blue Jays pitching staff.
   286. Rants Mulliniks Posted: November 15, 2012 at 03:01 PM (#4303450)
I still don't get how anyone successfully counterfeited the old ones. They have a hologram, a metallic stip partially imbedded/woven into the paper, braille, and a watermark of the Queen visible only when held up to the light. And of course microprinting and a special paper stock.
   287.     Hey Gurl Posted: November 15, 2012 at 03:46 PM (#4303485)
Buerhle is being sent to a Toronto chop shop, where he will be broken down, and his parts distributed to the rest of the Blue Jays pitching staff.


Or fed to his pitbull.
   288. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: November 15, 2012 at 04:51 PM (#4303583)
Yunel Escobar to play third base?

Surely he's getting flipped, right?
   289. ColonelTom Posted: November 15, 2012 at 06:08 PM (#4303679)
No way they're going to pay Yunel $5M next year. They're just saying he will play third to expand his market. The Phils would have to be interested.
   290. canadian shield Posted: November 15, 2012 at 07:22 PM (#4303738)
Wait, I thought $50 bills were blue. $10 bills are yellow, $5 are pink.


Negative, the 5 is green, 10 is red, 25 is purple.
   291. Paul D(uda) Posted: November 16, 2012 at 03:09 PM (#4304419)

And now Toronto's signed Melky!
   292. Papa Squid Posted: November 16, 2012 at 03:12 PM (#4304421)
And now Toronto's signed Melky!


AA, making it rain!!
   293. Rants Mulliniks Posted: November 16, 2012 at 03:14 PM (#4304423)
Woohoo!! I still can't help but think there are more deals to come. Do they keep Davis now? What about a platoon partner for 1b?
   294. formerly dp Posted: November 16, 2012 at 03:29 PM (#4304444)
Wow, that was a) cheap, and b) unexpected. They are really going for the throat right now. That lineup's starting to look tasty.
   295. JJ1986 Posted: November 16, 2012 at 03:39 PM (#4304462)
So, what's the Jays lineup?

SS Reyes
LF Melky
RF Bautista
DH Encarnacion
1B ???
3B Lawrie
2B Bonifacio
CF Rasmus
C Arencibia
   296. formerly dp Posted: November 16, 2012 at 03:42 PM (#4304470)
I think Plan A is Maicer Izturis at 2B, with Bonifacio as the backup. Cooper and Lind at 1B? Seems like it wouldn't be hard to find a better option than that...

For some reason, I thought Bonifacio was older than he is. Came up young and never got any better...
   297. Rants Mulliniks Posted: November 16, 2012 at 03:49 PM (#4304488)
I think I'd rather see Bonifacio start, with Izturis as the backup. Lawrie and Reyes are gonna need some days off. Plus, Bonifacio is a superior baserunner and probably an equal defender, while being basically the same hitter.
   298. vivaelpujols Posted: November 16, 2012 at 04:16 PM (#4304522)
Beinfest is good, but he won't be able to stop them from averaging less than 70 wins over the next decade.


I will be you like 5,000 dollars the Marlins average more than 70 wins the next decade. You game?
   299. DL from MN Posted: November 16, 2012 at 04:49 PM (#4304552)
The Twins will give you Morneau for one of those new shiny Marlins pitchers.
   300. spycake Posted: November 16, 2012 at 05:08 PM (#4304567)
Bump
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