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Tuesday, April 22, 2014

Martin Maldonado suspended

Milwaukee Brewers catcher Martin Maldonado has been suspended five games by Major League Baseball for his role in Sunday’s benches-clearing incident with the Pittsburgh Pirates, a source told ESPN’s Buster Olney.

Maldonado also was fined $2,500, according to the source.

The scuffle began when Milwaukee’s Carlos Gomez and Pittsburgh pitcher Gerrit Cole yelled at each other following the Brewers outfielder’s triple in Sunday’s contest.

...The benches then emptied, and as the teams converged, Maldonado threw a punch that left a cut and bruise around the eye of Pirates outfielder Travis Snider.

Thanks to Danny.

Repoz Posted: April 22, 2014 at 01:25 PM | 34 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: brewers

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   1. Man o' Schwar Posted: April 22, 2014 at 01:39 PM (#4691196)
This must only be part of the story. I would find it hard to believe he's the only one who gets suspended and/or fined.
   2. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: April 22, 2014 at 02:03 PM (#4691242)
He's the only one who gets suspended and/or fined--the other participants will be drawn and quartered
   3. That was some weird (((JE))) Posted: April 22, 2014 at 02:11 PM (#4691252)
Would Maldonado still have received a five-game suspension had his fist not connected with Snider's face?
   4. Barnaby Jones Posted: April 22, 2014 at 02:21 PM (#4691261)
This must only be part of the story. I would find it hard to believe he's the only one who gets suspended and/or fined.


He's really the only person who actually did any real fisticuffs. Gomez was flailing wildly but he didn't really hit anything. Snider charged Gomez, but the latter tripped and fell over as soon as he got near.

Would Maldonado still have received a five-game suspension had his fist not connected with Snider's face?


I... what? That's what he's being suspended for. So... no?
   5. Danny Posted: April 22, 2014 at 02:33 PM (#4691273)
Snider charged Gomez, but the latter tripped and fell over as soon as he got near.

Snider pretty clearly shoved Gomez down.
   6. That was some weird (((JE))) Posted: April 22, 2014 at 02:40 PM (#4691279)
I was suggesting that intent should determine the suspension length, Barnaby, not the result.
   7. Khrushin it bro Posted: April 22, 2014 at 02:43 PM (#4691281)
Candy is pissed.
   8. Nasty Nate Posted: April 22, 2014 at 02:43 PM (#4691282)
I was suggesting that intent should determine the suspension length, Barnaby, not the result.


Players who are held back by coaches et al, preventing them from actually committing any violence aren't typically punished for their intentions.
   9. Khrushin it bro Posted: April 22, 2014 at 02:50 PM (#4691290)
Ya these are professional athletes if they want to punch a guy on the field they probably can whether or not the coaches are trying to stop them.
   10. That was some weird (((JE))) Posted: April 22, 2014 at 02:51 PM (#4691292)
Read what I wrote above, NN. I was clearly talking about throwing a punch and connecting vs. not connecting.
   11. Nasty Nate Posted: April 22, 2014 at 02:55 PM (#4691296)
Gotcha, your word "intent" threw me off (because "intent to X" is almost always punished less than "X").

Your question is whether throwing a punch is the crime (whether landed or not). In terms of baseball brawls, I think it is is - with exceptions for severely harmful landed punches.
   12. Rob_Wood Posted: April 22, 2014 at 02:59 PM (#4691299)

For sure in hockey the sanctions are "results-oriented" meaning that how injured the guy you injured definitely is taken into account.
   13. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: April 22, 2014 at 03:04 PM (#4691304)
Would Maldonado still have received a five-game suspension had his fist not connected with Snider's face?

no

and it's pretty clear mlb is testing reaction to see what to do with snider and gomez

I remain firm in my stance that gomez merits 3-5 games and the same for snider. if gomez gets some whacky 10 game suspension then mlb is being ridiculously punitive.

and yes, even though snider is sporting the shiner if he doesn't come flying out of the dugout none of this happens. by every account (brewer and pirate) things between cole and gomez was just jawing until snider stuck his nose into things. and then gomez went off his gourd
   14. That was some weird (((JE))) Posted: April 22, 2014 at 03:05 PM (#4691309)
FYI: Cole didn't get suspended. Gomez got three games, Snider two, and Martin one.
   15. Random Transaction Generator Posted: April 22, 2014 at 03:05 PM (#4691310)
I thought the headline was that he was suspended for PED use, and figured that if you hit the cover off the ball (literally) then maybe you get an extra round of testing and that's why he got caught.
   16. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: April 22, 2014 at 03:05 PM (#4691311)
I was suggesting that intent should determine the suspension length, Barnaby, not the result.


Isn't that fairly routine in all matters of jurisprudence, both civic and private? I don't think the sentences for attempted murder and murder are the same, even if the only thing standing between the two crimes is the competence of the accused.

   17. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: April 22, 2014 at 03:09 PM (#4691318)
update:

Brewers' Maldonado suspended 5 games by MLB and Gomez gets 3 games. Pirates' Snider got 2 games and Martin 1.

I have no immediate issue with this

edit

credit to Jason

   18. Jose is El Absurd Pollo Posted: April 22, 2014 at 03:10 PM (#4691320)
Isn't that fairly routine in all matters of jurisprudence, both civic and private? I don't think the sentences for attempted murder and murder are the same, even if the only thing standing between the two crimes is level of competence.


That's true but it has never made any sense to me. If I take a shot at you the fact that I missed doesn't really change what happened. I'm sure there is some historical reason within the law that makes the distinction logical but I have never understood it.
   19. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: April 22, 2014 at 03:11 PM (#4691321)
if I am a pitcher I now work to instigate with batters regularly knowing that I am unlikely to be suspended as long as I am not using a baseball to incite a reaction.
   20. Random Transaction Generator Posted: April 22, 2014 at 03:14 PM (#4691324)
if I am a pitcher I now work to instigate with batters regularly knowing that I am unlikely to be suspended as long as I am not using a baseball to incite a reaction.


You have to work with your catcher.

If a player hits a long fly ball but doesn't hit it out of the park, then yell at him and try to get him suspended for retaliating/reacting.
If a player hits a long fly ball and does hit it out of the park, then have your catcher stand in the basepath near home and yell at him and try to get him suspended for retaliating/reacting.
   21. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: April 22, 2014 at 03:15 PM (#4691326)
That's true but it has never made any sense to me. If I take a shot at you the fact that I missed doesn't really change what happened. I'm sure there is some historical reason within the law that makes the distinction logical but I have never understood it.


I'm not necessarily* defending it, just noting that it's pretty much the way things are done. I wouldn't expect baseball to differ from any other system in that regard.

* To be fair, there is an argument for it, which I think becomes more sensible if you think of crimes where there no specific intent to harm. If you shoot a gun up in the air in your neighborhood and it falls harmlessly to the ground, you'll get (I assume) charged with reckless endangerment or something similar. If it kills someone you'll get charged with manslaughter or reckless homicide or something more serious. You can certainly make a case that by engaging in the act, you have assumed the consequences of the outcome, and the punishment will be meted out according to those consequences.
   22. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 22, 2014 at 03:23 PM (#4691336)
That's true but it has never made any sense to me. If I take a shot at you the fact that I missed doesn't really change what happened. I'm sure there is some historical reason within the law that makes the distinction logical but I have never understood it.

Typically, it's to reduce the perp's incentive to finish the victim off. If, in a fit of rage, I hit you with a bat, or shoot and wound you, at some point I may calm down, and stop the assault. If the punishment is exactly the same whether you die or not, I have every incentive to make sure you are dead, and eliminate at least one witness.
   23. 6 - 4 - 3 Posted: April 22, 2014 at 03:30 PM (#4691344)
All of those seem about right, although I'm a little surprised that Gomez get more than Snider. In my mind, Snider charging onto the field was the catalyst and without him going after Gomez physically, there probably is no brawl. What Gomez did after jawing at Cole was more about defending himself physically than escalating it any further, so I see Snider as deserving of a longer sentence than Gomez on account of Snider's role in escalating the situation despite not being any part of the play on the field that precipitated it.

My guess is that Gomez will get it reduced to 1 or 2 games on appeal. I definitely agree that Cole shouldn't be suspended, since he extricated himself completely from the situation after just yelling something that didn't warrant an ejection.
   24. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: April 22, 2014 at 03:40 PM (#4691360)
6-4-3

I think mlb gave snider a break for being a punching bag for Maldonado

   25. mrmacro Posted: April 22, 2014 at 03:43 PM (#4691364)
Gomez took off his helmet and left the bag, walking towards Cole and requiring restraint to 'defend himself physically?' He also appears to throw his helmet at Snider, though in fairness the video is inconclusive.
   26. mrmacro Posted: April 22, 2014 at 03:49 PM (#4691371)
@24, well that and the fact that Gomez threw the first punch
   27. Sunday silence Posted: April 22, 2014 at 04:47 PM (#4691431)
If I take a shot at you the fact that I missed doesn't really change what happened.


Well that's your first leap of logic right there.
   28. valuearbitrageur Posted: April 22, 2014 at 06:49 PM (#4691504)
Gomez took off his helmet and left the bag, walking towards Cole and requiring restraint to 'defend himself physically?' He also appears to throw his helmet at Snider, though in fairness the video is inconclusive.


Cole yelled obscenities at Gomez, then ran like a #####, and got no punishments. Neither of them did anything but yell till Snider initiated physical violence, so what's your point?
   29. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: April 22, 2014 at 07:25 PM (#4691526)
Cole yelled obscenities at Gomez, then ran like a #####, and got no punishments


I don't really get what you're saying here. MLB doesn't usually punish guys for walking away from fights.

Also, "ran like a #####"? You're better than that.
   30. mrmacro Posted: April 22, 2014 at 08:41 PM (#4691574)
#28 is factually incorrect in every possible way, other than the yelling obscenities bit. The Brewers 3rd base coach ushered Cole away from Gomez, who resisted attempts to restrain him. Snider interposed himself between Gomez and Cole (with a few other players in between)...and then Gomez lunged at him and threw a punch, after which Snider tackled him. I guess my point is that the Gomez apologists, like their boy, are in the wrong.
   31. Bug Selig Posted: April 22, 2014 at 09:06 PM (#4691589)
Also, "ran like a #####"? You're better than that.

You'd think so, wouldn't you?
   32. zachtoma Posted: April 22, 2014 at 09:41 PM (#4691611)
A lot of the talk I've been hearing on this site and others has made Gomez out to be relatively blameless in this incident ("oh, that's just his style, that's just the way he plays the game, if you have a problem with it, it's probably because you're racist" - that's referring to the bat flip I assume, and fine, OK, but it doesn't deal with what happened next). I just watched the video for the first time, and I gotta say, this incident is 90% on Gomez. Jawing between players doesn't usually provoke an ejection or any kind of scuffle, but Gomez came off the bag towards Cole, was clearly being aggressive/threatening though Cole was walking away, was restrained by umpires and tried to lunge away from them & throw his helmet. 3 games seems light if anything.

For example this,

What Gomez did after jawing at Cole was more about defending himself physically than escalating it any further,


Are you out of your mind? Did you see the video? And this,

Neither of them did anything but yell till Snider initiated physical violence, so what's your point?


Gomez threw his helmet and the first punch, well before Snider took him down. This isn't subjective, it's very clearly shown in the video.

I couldn't tell for sure but it also looked like Russell Martin may have gotten involved before Snider or Maldonado did, surprised he's only at 1 game.
   33. Sunday silence Posted: April 23, 2014 at 12:11 AM (#4691670)

My guess is that Gomez will get it reduced to 1 or 2 games on appeal.


this is also crazy talk.
   34. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: April 23, 2014 at 05:19 AM (#4691714)
Neither of them did anything but yell till Snider initiated physical violence, so what's your point?


That's a funny way of misspelling Gomez.

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