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Monday, August 31, 2009

MASN: Theoharis: Young O’s Need to Learn to Win

For many years I was as lost as Doc Sportello on an bad assid trip trying to figure out what “learn how to win” means. Thankfully, Amber Theoharis and Dave Trembley are here to talk me down and learn me.

The Orioles are going to have to figure out how to win some of these close games. I’m a bit worried the young players are missing out on the opportunity to learn how to win. It’s easier said than done, but they have to learn the value of finding ways to come up with that big hit, key play or put away pitch.

The ability to win the close ones separates the winning teams from the losing teams. It really is a skill that good teams and good players have. Unfortunately for the Orioles there’s nobody to teach that skill.

...‘Learn how to win’—-it’s a phrase we hear all the time in baseball and no one knows exactly how to teach a group of young players to do that. I asked Dave Trembley today how a team can learn to win.

He said you look at teams that win and see what they do right—-most of the time it’s playing fundamentally sound and playing team ball.

Trembley pointed to Thursday’s Athletics-Angels game. The Angels were down two runs with two outs in the ninth. Torii Hunter got on base with a bunt single. He did it so the tying run could come to the plate in the form of the Halos best hitter Vladimir Guerrero. That’s playing to win the game.

(For the record Guerrero grounded out to second base to end the game—-Angels lose.)

Repoz Posted: August 31, 2009 at 12:25 PM | 12 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: fantasy baseball, orioles, sabermetrics

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   1. TomH Posted: August 31, 2009 at 12:51 PM (#3309561)
The ability to win the close ones separates the winning teams from the losing teams. It really is a skill that good teams and good players have. Unfortunately for the Orioles there's nobody to teach that skill.

My head hurtz.

You are factually incorrect. You would realize this if you had done the research required to back your claim, and, finding that the hard facts disagreed with the thesis, you could have retracted your statements before making them publicly.

And then the problem is compounded by the incorrect assumption that the "skill" can only be taught by some ill-defined elite person who, I suppose, has acquired it by his involvement in winning games. Which must be someone old, to teach these "young" Orioles.

NEWSFLASH: The O's HAVE NO PITCHING. ALMOST THE WORST ERA IN THE LEAGUE. THAT IS WHY THEY ARE LOSING A LOT.
   2. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: August 31, 2009 at 02:12 PM (#3309625)
The Orioles do have pitching. It's just young and, dare I say it, inexperienced. Of course, those young pitchers don't need to "learn how to win," and they certainly don't need a vet to teach them how to win, they just need time at the ML level to make the necessary adjustments. (although adding a guy like Lackey wouldn't hurt of course.)
   3. Golfing Great Mitch Cumstein Posted: August 31, 2009 at 02:21 PM (#3309635)
The Angels were down two runs with two outs in the ninth. Torii Hunter got on base with a bunt single. He did it so the tying run could come to the plate in the form of the Halos best hitter Vladimir Guerrero. That’s playing to win the game.

So with two outs in the ninth, you want to get on base? OK, I think I got it.

I guess he is trying to say that Hunter wasn't focused on the home run, but most players understand that situation and the bunt base hit wouldn't work for every player.
   4. DKDC Posted: August 31, 2009 at 02:33 PM (#3309652)
To be fair, Theoharis is correct that the Orioles have been losing a lot of close games lately. The Orioles have been outscored 224 to 202 in the second half, but their record is just 14-29 over that span, which is about 6 games less than their pythag.

I'd chalk it up to chance rather than young players now knowing how to win, but to each his/her own.
   5. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: August 31, 2009 at 02:44 PM (#3309665)
I agree that it's mostly bad luck, but I can't help but feel that Trembley and Samuel are also partly responsible. I'm just not a Trembley fan and don't want him back.
   6. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: August 31, 2009 at 03:02 PM (#3309678)
To be fair, Theoharis is correct that the Orioles have been losing a lot of close games lately. The Orioles have been outscored 224 to 202 in the second half, but their record is just 14-29 over that span, which is about 6 games less than their pythag.

I'd chalk it up to chance rather than young players now knowing how to win, but to each his/her own.
That's because "knowing how to win" is one of those silly baseball cliches that only makes sense if one doesn't bother to think about it. It would actually make sense if it were generally used to refer to situations such as the Torri Hunter one: i.e., knowing the best tactics to use. Certainly better teams and better players presumably make smarter plays. The problem is, that's not really what the phrase means, as evidenced by the rest of her comments:
It’s easier said than done, but they have to learn the value of finding ways to come up with that big hit, key play or put away pitch.
Really? You mean, the Orioles don't know the value of big hits, key plays, and put away pitches? They're sitting around in the 9th inning saying, "Hmm. Should I try to get a hit here, or just strike out? Which is more valuable?" I like, too, the notion of "finding ways" to get hits. As if it were an issue of strategy rather than ability. If the former, why not, you know, get them all the time?
The ability to win the close ones separates the winning teams from the losing teams. It really is a skill that good teams and good players have. Unfortunately for the Orioles there’s nobody to teach that skill.
Really? There's a special "win the close ones" skill?


Of course, I have now put more thought into the phrase than she ever did.
   7. Dingbat_Charlie Posted: August 31, 2009 at 03:16 PM (#3309688)
clicking on TFA will only distract me from daydreaming about 30+ starts from Matusz.
   8. Moloka'i Three-Finger Brown (Declino DeShields) Posted: August 31, 2009 at 03:21 PM (#3309696)
You mean, the Orioles don't know the value of big hits, key plays, and put away pitches? They're sitting around in the 9th inning saying, "Hmm. Should I try to get a hit here, or just strike out? Which is more valuable?" I like, too, the notion of "finding ways" to get hits. As if it were an issue of strategy rather than ability.


I guess, in the context of a young team, it could be that "learning how to win" is just really imprecise way of saying that the players lack savvy gained through experience and can be schooled by more experienced pros when the game is on the line. On the other hand, plenty of veteran teams don't "know how to win," either.
   9. The Lovesong of J. Alfredo Griffin Posted: August 31, 2009 at 03:52 PM (#3309732)
I know how to win -- score more runs than the other team. If the Orioles really don't know how to win, they need some serious help. I'm available, and my price is modest.
   10. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: August 31, 2009 at 03:56 PM (#3309734)
Being a vet and having experience certainly helps, but not in any strategic sense. Typically, an experienced batter will have a better sense of the strike zone and what pitches he's likely to see in a particular count (old player skills), an experienced pitcher knows how to set up a hitter more effectively, and an experienced fielder will be better positioned, but all of those examples apply regardless of the game situation. An experienced hitter doesn't suddenly decide to use his knowledge of the strike zone in the bottom of the 9th.
   11. Designated Sitter (GGC) Posted: August 31, 2009 at 03:59 PM (#3309737)
Nice legs!
   12. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: August 31, 2009 at 05:09 PM (#3309813)
Being a vet and having experience certainly helps, but not in any strategic sense. Typically, an experienced batter will have a better sense of the strike zone and what pitches he's likely to see in a particular count (old player skills), an experienced pitcher knows how to set up a hitter more effectively, and an experienced fielder will be better positioned, but all of those examples apply regardless of the game situation. An experienced hitter doesn't suddenly decide to use his knowledge of the strike zone in the bottom of the 9th.
Exactly. All of those things go into making the player a better player; nobody on earth would deny that. But not better players in close games; better players, generally. But obviously, "Young Orioles need to be better players" would not exactly be the most insightful headline.

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