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Wednesday, May 04, 2011

Matthews: Posada’s baserunning gaffe steams Girardi

The Yankees made three huge, and potentially fatal, baserunning errors in tonight’s 4-2 loss to the Tigers but Jorge Posada’s ill-fated decision to try to steal second with two out in the sixth inning and Andruw Jones at the plate particularly irked the manager, a reaction Joe Girardi didn’t even attempt to conceal.

“Jorgie’s play? It just can’t happen,’’ Girardi said. “It just can’t happen. How does it affect the game? None of us will really know. But you hate to make foolish outs.’‘

Posada decided to take off on a 1-2 pitch to Jones, but Tigers starter Brad Penny spotted his move, stepped off the rubber and easily threw him out about 20 feet short of second base. “They weren’t paying attention to me and I was just trying to get into scoring position for Andruw,’’ Posada said. “I thought I could sneak in there. I messed up, you know? Completely. I messed up. What can I tell you?’’

Asked if he had spoken to Posada about the mistake, Girardi tersely said, “We talked about it. Just leave it at that. You can’t go there. Bottom line is, you can’t go there.’‘

Thanks to Fern.

Repoz Posted: May 04, 2011 at 10:48 AM | 49 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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1. xdog Posted: May 04, 2011 at 11:24 AM (#3817619)

<“They weren’t paying attention to me. . .">

Wrong.

2. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: May 04, 2011 at 11:26 AM (#3817622)

Well, Penny wasn't paying attention to him. The problem is that Posada broke so early that Avila was able to stand up from his crouch and point at second base, and Penny was just standing there in the set, so he could easily step off and catch Posada between first and second.

The article says "Penny spotted his move", which is incorrect except in a very generous reading. Penny spotted Posada after his catcher stood up and yelled at him that Posada was stealing second.

3. Walt Davis Posted: May 04, 2011 at 11:40 AM (#3817626)

Also 1-2 on Andruw with a RHP on the mound and two outs ... not exactly like the run expectancy there is too high. Seems like a perfectly decent time to try to grab a base, worst case scenario Andruw gets to start over next inning.

4. Non-Youkilidian Geometry Posted: May 04, 2011 at 12:30 PM (#3817644)

Yeah, I'm not sure the concept was flawed, just the execution.

5. TVerik Posted: May 04, 2011 at 12:43 PM (#3817650)

That was a painful, painful game to watch. Has Penny always worked that slowly?

6. Cowboy Popup Posted: May 04, 2011 at 12:57 PM (#3817657)

The Yanks have given away something like 6 outs in the series so far on the basepaths. They are usually pretty good at stealing and not notably bad at baserunning. I don't know what's going on this year, but they aren't running the bases well as a team.

According to what I've read, Cano also did something extremely stupid right before Posada got thrown out, although I'm not entirely sure what that was.

7. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: May 04, 2011 at 01:01 PM (#3817659)

According to what I've read, Cano also did something extremely stupid right before Posada got thrown out, although I'm not entirely sure what that was.

He misread a pitch in the dirt and ran halfway to second before he realized the ball hadn't gotten by the catcher.

Video here (mlb.com)

8. JE

Posted: May 04, 2011 at 01:13 PM (#3817667)

It is a bit easier for Girardi to get steamed at a player sporting a .283 wOBA.

9. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: May 04, 2011 at 01:19 PM (#3817672)

It was cold last night, very unpleasant May evening that was saved for me by the Yankees running into all sorts of outs against Brad Penny. This Tigers fan thanks you, Jorge!

10. RB in NYC (Now with New iPhone!) Posted: May 04, 2011 at 01:22 PM (#3817673)

Also 1-2 on Andruw with a RHP on the mound and two outs ... not exactly like the run expectancy there is too high. Seems like a perfectly decent time to try to grab a base, worst case scenario Andruw gets to start over next inning.

There is never, ever, a perfectly decent time for 39-year old Jorge Posada to try to grab a base. Well, I take that back, I suppose if the pitch is thrown, and the catcher drops dead from a heart attack, that would be a decent time.

EDIT: Weirdly, Posada has stolen 4 bases since 2008-2011. One of them was the back end of a double steal, so that doesn't really count. Of the remaining three, two were off the Tigers. I wonder if Jorge has it in his head that's a team he can run on.

11. The Good Face Posted: May 04, 2011 at 02:00 PM (#3817701)

You would think at this stage in their relationship, Girardi would be familiar with the fact that Posada runs the bases like a man with a serious brain injury. Yeah, he's slow, but that's nowhere near his main problem.

12. aleskel

Posted: May 04, 2011 at 02:02 PM (#3817705)

He misread a pitch in the dirt and ran halfway to second before he realized the ball hadn't gotten by the catcher.

I actually thought that was (partially) Posada's fault as well - it looked like he was waving Cano over even though the ball didn't get very far. I can't watch the replay here, so someone tell me if I'm wrong.

13. Melo's Love Handles (NJ) Posted: May 04, 2011 at 02:13 PM (#3817714)

[12] Yeah, Cano said as much in the papers. Jorge Posada is the rare combination of breathtaking lack of speed and overabundant stupidity when it comes to baserunning.

14. TVerik Posted: May 04, 2011 at 02:19 PM (#3817719)

Longtime Yankee fans will agree with me on this: Posada's intensely strange baserunning doesn't hold a candle to the master - Bernie Williams would sometimes drift into "Bernieland" and make insane decisions (or, more likely, not make any decision at all) on the bases. The crazy thing is that Bernie was fleet of foot; he may be the fastest non-base-stealer in modern baseball.

15. Melo's Love Handles (NJ) Posted: May 04, 2011 at 02:21 PM (#3817721)

I don't remember thinking Bernie made "crazy" decisions a la Posada. He was just intensely frustrating because his first step was awful despite great overall speed.

16. SoSH U at work Posted: May 04, 2011 at 02:22 PM (#3817722)

You would think at this stage in their relationship, Girardi would be familiar with the fact that Posada runs the bases like a man with a serious brain injury. Yeah, he's slow, but that's nowhere near his main problem.

When I saw this in the Hot Topics, I wondered if it was a bumped thread, because it seems like this same story is written virtually every year. You and NJ have confirmed my suspicions.

Was Posada part of the baserunning merriment during the blown call in the ALCS?

17. TVerik Posted: May 04, 2011 at 02:33 PM (#3817730)

I remember a time in particular that Bernie was standing on second when the next hitter got a hit to the outfield. Immediately, it was a "will the Yankees score the run" question, and when they switched the camera shot to the field, Bernie was still on second! He had never moved. No one was able to explain why, and Torre actually laughed about it in the postgame presser.

18. RB in NYC (Now with New iPhone!) Posted: May 04, 2011 at 02:33 PM (#3817731)

Was Posada part of the baserunning merriment during the blown call in the ALCS?

He was, although if I remember correctly that one was more Cano's fault. I believe Posada has also had his nose broken a couple of times when he's been hit in the face by a thrown ball after failing to slide soon enough on a double play. The man is a terrible baserunner.

I have to disagree with Erik, Bernie had his moments, but he could also go first-to-third as well as anyone I've ever seen, and did a huge majority of the time. Posada runs the bases like he just did five shots and never really understood the rules that well to begin with.

19. The Good Face Posted: May 04, 2011 at 02:39 PM (#3817734)

I don't remember thinking Bernie made "crazy" decisions a la Posada. He was just intensely frustrating because his first step was awful despite great overall speed.

I don't remember too many "crazy" decisions, but Bernie did have pretty bad instincts on the bases. He was tentative, and like you said, it took him a few steps to get up to speed.

20. Buzzkill Posted: May 04, 2011 at 02:50 PM (#3817740)

Wow 1996 seems like a long time ago. Makes the alien that is Mariano Rivera and his one pitch that much more incredible.

21. Karl from NY Posted: May 04, 2011 at 02:53 PM (#3817746)

“Jorgie’s play? It just can’t happen,’’ Girardi said.

How do you pronounce "Jorgie" and how could it differ from the actual Spanish pronounciation of "Jorge" ?

22. Cowboy Popup Posted: May 04, 2011 at 02:54 PM (#3817747)

The man is a terrible baserunner.

The man must believe he's actually a decent runner, that's the only way to explain his otherwise inexplicable aggressiveness on the bases. Only complete self delusion could generate the decisions he's made.

Speaking of self delusion, is Andruw Jones always that stupid or was he just itching to make contact with someone in catcher's gear?

23. Melo's Love Handles (NJ) Posted: May 04, 2011 at 02:57 PM (#3817749)

How do you pronounce "Jorgie" and how could it differ from the actual Spanish pronounciation of "Jorge" ?

Whore-gee. Kind of like orgy with an h sound in front of it.

24. TVerik Posted: May 04, 2011 at 03:17 PM (#3817765)

Hmmm... I believe I've heard Girardi say "Jorgie" like "Georgie" with a hard, non-hispanic G sound.

25. Melo's Love Handles (NJ) Posted: May 04, 2011 at 03:29 PM (#3817773)

Yeah, I was just screwing around.

26. Kurt Posted: May 04, 2011 at 03:32 PM (#3817778)

Wouldn't that be a soft G? It's not "gorge-ee"

27. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: May 04, 2011 at 03:32 PM (#3817780)

I do remember one game against the Red Sox last year I believe. Posada was on secnod with no outs. The Yanekees then got two hits and a deep fly ball in their next three at bats, and Posada still had not scored.

However, I would point out that since the "Posada is toast" article, he has been hitting the ball well.

28. TVerik Posted: May 04, 2011 at 03:37 PM (#3817787)

I think that a hard "g" = a "j" sound, like "geronimo!"
a soft "g" = like in "gurgle".

29. Kurt Posted: May 04, 2011 at 03:40 PM (#3817789)

TVe, the ultimate authority on everything disagrees with you.

30. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: May 04, 2011 at 03:42 PM (#3817793)

Here it is...maybe not exactly how I remembered, and he did eventually score on a bases loaded walk...

YANKEES 8TH: OKAJIMA REPLACED BARD (PITCHING); Posada doubled;
Swisher grounded out (shortstop to first); Gardner singled to
left [Posada stayed at second]; Granderson flied to left; Jeter
reached on an error by Scutaro [Posada to third, Gardner to
second]; Johnson walked [Posada scored (unearned), Gardner to
third, Jeter to second];

31. Obi One Kenobi Nil

Posted: May 04, 2011 at 03:46 PM (#3817797)

Whore-gee. Kind of like orgy with an h sound in front of it.

This is particularly amusing if you know what 'Gee' is slang for in Ireland.

32. TVerik Posted: May 04, 2011 at 03:51 PM (#3817800)

I bow to my Wiki overlords

33. chris h. is a member of Team Keefe! Posted: May 04, 2011 at 03:57 PM (#3817804)

This is particularly amusing if you know what 'Gee' is slang for in Ireland.

Google suggests it's slang for vajayjay; is correct?

34. Styles P. Deadball Posted: May 04, 2011 at 04:01 PM (#3817808)

he may be the fastest non-base-stealer in modern baseball.

Shawon Dunston could run like he was shot out of a gun... and ended lots of innings getting thrown out trying to steal.

But it was a short walk over to his position and then Dwight Smith would bring him his glove and hat.

35. The Yankee Clapper Posted: May 04, 2011 at 04:06 PM (#3817810)

I don't remember thinking Bernie made "crazy" decisions a la Posada. He was just intensely frustrating because his first step was awful despite great overall speed.

I think most of Bernie's "crazy" base running decisions were a matter of not reading the ball well off the bat - not being able to judge whether it was going to be caught. Bernie was pretty good in other situations, and very good on going 1st to 3rd, as noted by #18.

36. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: May 04, 2011 at 04:16 PM (#3817820)

I actually thought that was (partially) Posada's fault as well - it looked like he was waving Cano over even though the ball didn't get very far. I can't watch the replay here, so someone tell me if I'm wrong.

[12] Yeah, Cano said as much in the papers.

Posada very, very clearly holds his hand up in the universally understood 'hold/stop/go no further' position. If Cano actually intimated that he went because Posada waived him over then Cano is an ####### for blaming Posada.

37. Fred Lynn Nolan Ryan Sweeney Agonistes Posted: May 04, 2011 at 04:19 PM (#3817823)

Posada very, very clearly holds his hand up in the universally understood 'hold/stop/go no further' position. If Cano actually intimated that he went because Posada waived him over then Cano is an ####### for blaming Posada.

Somebody should explain this to Don Zimmer. He's been hanging Denny Doyle out to dry for 35 years now.

38. RollingWave Posted: May 04, 2011 at 05:00 PM (#3817863)

funny, you'd figure if there was a position player that's good at reading pitcher / situations it be catchers.

then again, at 39 maybe Posada simply taken one too many pitches to the nuggin over the years.

39. The Yankee Clapper Posted: May 04, 2011 at 05:07 PM (#3817869)

If Cano actually intimated that he went because Posada waived him over then Cano is an ####### for blaming Posada.

It appears that Cano was just explaining his own indecision, at least according to another article that offers this account:

Girardi said Cano’s read was good, but he had to keep going once he committed to second base.

“I was going to go because I saw him going to his left,” Cano said. “But it stayed too close and Posada stopped me. I stopped, but I should have kept running… If I stay on first base, it should be first-and-third and Andruw coming to hit. Those are mistakes you learn from and don’t let them happen again.”[emphasis added]

40. Johnny Chimpo Posted: May 04, 2011 at 05:13 PM (#3817876)

I love Posada, he's by far my favorite player, but he is the worst baserunner I have ever seen.

41. nick swisher hygiene Posted: May 04, 2011 at 05:28 PM (#3817883)

Bernie, IMO, a fine baserunner but a lousy base-stealer: the problem I think was unusual inability to read pitchers...

42. TVerik Posted: May 04, 2011 at 06:36 PM (#3817974)

I'm pretty sure I'm reading this right - ironically, Po's first ML appearance was as a pinch-runner.

43. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: May 04, 2011 at 07:08 PM (#3818014)

I'm pretty sure I'm reading this right - ironically, Po's first ML appearance was as a pinch-runner.

Yup, in one of the greatest baseball games ever played. Alex Rodriguez also made his first playoff appearance as a pinch runner in that game.

44. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: May 04, 2011 at 07:20 PM (#3818034)

Po is the worst, but Giambi used to drive me nuts. Once he was settled on base, he was fine, although obviously horrendously slow. But he is the worst I can remember at getting thrown out trying to stretch a long single into a double.

45. T.J. Posted: May 04, 2011 at 09:20 PM (#3818147)

Shawon Dunston could run like he was shot out of a gun... and ended lots of innings getting thrown out trying to steal.

But it was a short walk over to his position and then Dwight Smith would bring him his glove and hat.

What a frustrating player to watch. So much talent and so little savvy.

He did, however, steal at a relatively decent 72% career rate, which surprises me, including years of 12/15, 30/39, 25/30, 8/8, and 32/40 (and, of course, 3/11, 13/24, 19/30...).

46. Melo's Love Handles (NJ) Posted: May 04, 2011 at 09:29 PM (#3818155)

Once he was settled on base, he was fine, although obviously horrendously slow. But he is the worst I can remember at getting thrown out trying to stretch a long single into a double.

I had forgotten about this but I agree 100%.

47. RB in NYC (Now with New iPhone!) Posted: May 04, 2011 at 09:43 PM (#3818161)

I had forgotten about this but I agree 100%.

I had to, but the minute you said this, I had this very clear memory of my father and I watching Giambi hit a long single and both of us going "Stop, Jason stop!" as he turned first on his way to being thrown out.

48. Alan S Posted: May 04, 2011 at 09:45 PM (#3818163)

I'm pretty sure I'm reading this right - ironically, Po's first ML appearance was as a pinch-runner.

Yup, in one of the greatest baseball games ever played. Alex Rodriguez also made his first playoff appearance as a pinch runner in that game.

Huh? Are you talking about a different game?

49. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: May 04, 2011 at 09:57 PM (#3818169)

Oh, haha. I was talking about Game 2 of the 95 ALDS. retracted

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Matthews: Posada’s baserunning gaffe steams Girardi

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