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Thursday, February 28, 2013

McCoy: Cueto enjoys just standing on the mound

And Brandon Phillips will enjoy just standing around 2B…

BRANDON PHILLIPS made a rare error at second base Wednesday that led to three first-inning runs after he made a comment late last week to a visiting TV guy who supposedly said on the air that Chicago Cubs second baseman Darwin Barney deserved the Gold Glove. Barney won it, although more than a few people thought Phillips deserved it. Barney probably won it for going 141 straight games without an error.

Said Phillips, “If that’s what it takes, I can go a whole season without making an error. I’ll just quit trying to get to balls that other guys can’t get.”

...QUOTE OF THE DAY: “My goal is to get a pension from every Major League team.” — Pete Mackanin, former Reds coach/interim manager, former Phillies bench coach and now a scout for the Yankees.

Repoz Posted: February 28, 2013 at 04:20 AM | 18 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: reds

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Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. smileyy Posted: February 28, 2013 at 01:01 PM (#4377694)
Love the quote from Phillips
   2. Hack Wilson Posted: February 28, 2013 at 01:22 PM (#4377722)
Love the quote from Phillips


Not quite Sheffieldesque, but really dumb. Hey is Brandon Steve's illegitimate kid?
   3. cardsfanboy Posted: February 28, 2013 at 02:39 PM (#4377786)
Love the quote from Phillips


Agreed. This guy is totally awesome.

Not quite Sheffieldesque, but really dumb

Disagree. All he is saying is he could go errorless, if he didn't try for everything.
   4. smileyy Posted: February 28, 2013 at 03:28 PM (#4377834)
Maybe dumb as "likely to be misinterpreted", but its spot on in its critique of Fielding % over range factor (or whatever the defensive metric is called these days). That's what we want from players, right?
   5. SoSH U at work Posted: February 28, 2013 at 03:38 PM (#4377844)
I like Brandon, and think the quote is kind of funny, but let's not pretend it's terribly accurate. Fielding percentage doesn't reflect defensive ability very well because it doesn't include range, which is the most important element of defensive ability. OTOH, FP doesn't punish range either. In fact, the balls at the end of one's range are least likely to be charged as errors.
   6. tfbg9 Posted: February 28, 2013 at 03:48 PM (#4377858)
OTOH, FP doesn't punish range either.


But it does, a little bit. Ozzie Smith dives at a fast one hoppper, pops-up, and fires a hurried throw, the only throw that'll get the runner, and the ball sails into the stands. E6.

Jeter takes two steps at the exact same type of batted ball and pulls up. Hit.
   7. Dan Posted: February 28, 2013 at 03:55 PM (#4377864)
Disagree. All he is saying is he could go errorless, if he didn't try for everything.


Sure, but saying that when the player in question is Darwin Barney is pretty funny, given that Barney has extraordinary range at 2B. It's not like he lost the GG to Jeff Kent due to a higher FP. By saying this, he's implying that Barney's lack of errors is due to him not trying to go for balls at the extremes of his range, which is clearly untrue.
   8. bigglou115 Posted: February 28, 2013 at 03:56 PM (#4377865)
Has Brandon Phillips every actually seen Barney play? If he did, the only thing that would keep him from saying "yeah, he's better than me" is ego.
   9. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: February 28, 2013 at 04:00 PM (#4377868)
bigg

i don't think that's fair. phillips is a tremendous second baseman in his own right. the difference between the two from a distance may seem real but if i am a brandon phillips with a long history of defensive prowess i am not going to immediately acquiesce to the notion that someone is truly better than me based on a single season even if i did see him make some whizbang plays.

players, and rightfully so, put a lot of stock in sustainability. if barney keeps it up phillips will likely become used to the idea of barney being the better defender
   10. SoSH U at work Posted: February 28, 2013 at 04:00 PM (#4377869)
But it does, a little bit. Ozzie Smith dives at a fast one hoppper, pops-up, and fires a hurried throw, the only throw that'll get the runner, and the ball sails into the stands. E6.


Everyone has an end to their range, that place where dives or hurried throws are required to make a play. For Ozzie, that end is much further from where he started than it is for Jeter, but this scenario exists for both players.

FWIW, Ozzie led the league in FP 8 times. Jeter's done it twice.

Another example of this, as Dan notes, is Darwin Barney.
   11. bigglou115 Posted: February 28, 2013 at 04:07 PM (#4377878)
players, and rightfully so, put a lot of stock in sustainability. if barney keeps it up phillips will likely become used to the idea of barney being the better defender


While I see what your saying, Brandon Phillips history tends to cost him the benefit of my doubt. Don't get me wrong, I follow him on twitter, I read his interviews, he's intertwining and probably not a bad guy. But he's always struck me as the kind who let's his ego rule him at times. When Barney won the award Phillips seemed to truly begrudge Barney the recognition.

That said, Phillips has probably been the best defensive second baseman in the league over the course of his career. He will likely continue to be so. I just don't understand why in Phillips mind that means he must have been the best in every single season.
   12. Swedish Chef Posted: February 28, 2013 at 04:08 PM (#4377881)
Everyone has an end to their range, that place where dives or hurried throws are required to make a play. For Ozzie, that end is much further from where he started than it is for Jeter, but this scenario exists for both players.

But the scenario wouldn't exist for a hypothetical Phillips obsessed with playing it safe who simply wouldn't go for plays at the limit.
   13. SoSH U at work Posted: February 28, 2013 at 04:13 PM (#4377886)
But the scenario wouldn't exist for a hypothetical Phillips obsessed with playing it safe who simply wouldn't go for plays at the limit.


Good point. Though I'd wager a guess that the reason Brandon Phillips had more errors in 2012 had nothing to do with plays at the limit and everything to do with the fact that he simply botched more plays than Darwin Barney. You've got to earn your errors with today's official scorers.
   14. tfbg9 Posted: February 28, 2013 at 04:16 PM (#4377890)
FWIW, Ozzie led the league in FP 8 times.


Yeah, I shouldna' used Ozzie. But I think to a degree, my point holds. One reason Jeter was able to twice lead in FP is that he almost never makes a tough
play.
   15. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: February 28, 2013 at 04:25 PM (#4377900)
Phillips has probably been the best defensive second baseman in the league over the course of his career. He will likely continue to be so. I just don't understand why in Phillips mind that means he must have been the best in every single season.

a player like phillips is looking at his resume and going to think that unless a player has completely blown up the league a history of success outweighs someone 'maybe' being better over the course of a season. was barney really several deviations better than phillips last season? was he a mike trout to phillips' cabrera?

i didn't see that and i don't think anyone here can state that emphatically either. the only reason we think it may be the case is because one year's worth of numbers tell us barney is really d8mn good. and he looked good. but he didn't strike me as ozzie good when ozzie came into the leauge playing shortstop and everyone basically said 'holy sh8t'

so i will give brandon a pass for now
   16. SoSH U at work Posted: February 28, 2013 at 04:33 PM (#4377917)


Yeah, I shouldna' used Ozzie. But I think to a degree, my point holds. One reason Jeter was able to twice lead in FP is that he almost never makes a tough
play.


And I don't think it does. As I said, everyone has an extent to his range. It's not just the good ones, but all players. If anything, if the likelihood for error were higher for plays at the extent of one's range, then range should be rewarded by FP, since players with great range would have a higher number of plays they could handle comfortably (low error probability) vs. the player with limited range.

But that's just it. Range doesn't matter. Players make errors (particularly now, in the age of the error-averse scorekeeper) on plays that are obviously errors.* Generally any effort results in a hit from the man in the box.

   17. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: February 28, 2013 at 04:57 PM (#4377944)
Love the quote from Phillips


I concur. So he's got an ego? Big effing deal. What professional athlete doesn't? He clearly sees himself as the best, and from all the metrics and the eye test, he is the best at this stage.

I like the fact that he clearly prides himself on getting to balls other 2B don't.
   18. Walt Davis Posted: February 28, 2013 at 05:36 PM (#4377972)
he's intertwining

Is that even legal?

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