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Friday, December 13, 2013

McCoy: Pete Rose against eliminating collisions

Rigid body motion, if ever.

That’s a great question, so I called Rose. As you might expect, he had more than a few syllables to say about the subject.

“First of all, if they can eliminate concussions, I’m all for that,” said Rose. “But I’ve thought and thought about it. The only concussions I can remember recently in baseball is Justin Morneau, and he got that sliding into second base. I know this is mostly about Buster Posey, but he got hurt when he got his ankle caught and twisted it.”

SO, YES, ROSE is against eliminating home plate collisions.

“I’m a traditionalist,” he said. “I thought the game has always been pretty good. About the only major changes they’ve made to the game since 1869 was when they lowered the mound afrter the 1968 season and the designated hitter. I mean, the game is going pretty good, isn’t it?

“What’s next? Are they going to eliminate the takeout slide on double plays at second base?” Rose asked.

... Said Rose, “Man, you can’t pitch inside any more. Batters come to the plate wearing more protect gear than a soldier in Afghanistan. You know what happens after most home plate collisions? The runner and the catcher get up, pat each other on the ass, and play goes on. Players know when a guy on the other team doesn’t do it right or wrong. If he does it wrong that gets taken care of the next time the guy comes to bat.”

Rose laughed and said, “I saw where Johnny Bench, the greatest catcher in the history of the game, is in favor of eliminating collisions, so maybe he is a better guy to ask.”

Repoz Posted: December 13, 2013 at 06:21 AM | 34 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: history, reds

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   1. LargeBill Posted: December 13, 2013 at 08:34 AM (#4617299)
I was waiting until seeing the specifics of how the new rule was going to be enforced before deciding whether i like it or not, but hearing that Pete opposes it I have a better feeling for it.

The real laugh in the article is this claim by Rose: "About the only major changes they’ve made to the game since 1869 was when they lowered the mound afrter the 1968 season and the designated hitter." Baseball and its rules have been much more stable than the other major sports. However, when Rose uses 1869 as the starting point for that stability he is way over stating the case. There have been many changes which had far greater affect on the game than avoiding concussions at home plate.
   2. frannyzoo Posted: December 13, 2013 at 08:47 AM (#4617300)
Mr. Rose seems to have a conveniently selective memory when it comes to history here. I wonder if he has a similar convenience in regards to other past events?
   3. Random Transaction Generator Posted: December 13, 2013 at 09:09 AM (#4617307)
"About the only major changes they’ve made to the game since 1869 was when they lowered the mound afrter the 1968 season and the designated hitter."


I guess letting EVERYONE play regardless of skin colour doesn't register with Mr. Rose.

And yes, if Pete Rose is against this idea, then I'll bet it's a good idea.
   4. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: December 13, 2013 at 09:39 AM (#4617320)
Rose laughed and said, “I saw where Johnny Bench, the greatest catcher in the history of the game, is in favor of eliminating collisions, so maybe he is a better guy to ask.”

Can't argue with this.
   5. dlf Posted: December 13, 2013 at 09:58 AM (#4617327)
Part of what is so sad about Pete Rose's well deserved suspension is that he so obviously loves baseball. How many former players ~25 years after hanging up the spikes, could have told you that Joe Mauer was injured on a play at 2B? Or for that matter, even be paying enough attention to the collision rule change to know what a former teamate thinks about the issue? Rose, for all his many faults, loves the game at least as much as the most obsessive posters here.
   6. Rennie's Tenet Posted: December 13, 2013 at 10:03 AM (#4617330)
Could there be a more telling contrast than the Rose of today and Seaver,tending his grapes?
   7. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: December 13, 2013 at 10:58 AM (#4617367)
Agree that Rose is obsessive about the game in a way that 99.9% of former players aren't. He can rattle off present day stats with the best of them. His passion is great. It was good at first. But he went too far.
   8. Pat Rapper's Delight Posted: December 13, 2013 at 11:16 AM (#4617384)
Agree that Rose is obsessive about the game in a way that 99.9% of former players aren't. He can rattle off present day stats with the best of them.

Gotta know who's on hot and cold streaks when you've got action riding on every game.
   9. AROM Posted: December 13, 2013 at 11:31 AM (#4617400)
Wonder what Ray Fosse's opinion is.
   10. AROM Posted: December 13, 2013 at 11:33 AM (#4617404)
Gotta know who's on hot and cold streaks when you've got action riding on every game.


If you're betting based on hot an cold streaks, you're a sucker.
   11. Dan The Mediocre Posted: December 13, 2013 at 11:46 AM (#4617415)
If you're betting based on hot an cold streaks, you're a sucker.


Pete Rose is certainly a sucker.
   12. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: December 13, 2013 at 12:18 PM (#4617449)
About the only major changes they’ve made to the game since 1869 was when they lowered the mound afrter the 1968 season and the designated hitter


In 1869, hitters asked pitchers if they wanted a high or low ball, nine called balls was a walk, and foul balls caught after once bounce were "outs".

Even in the 20th century, you have pretty significant rule changes allowing sacrifice flies (1908), banning spitballs (1920), on defensive interference by a fielder (1931), and the addition of instant replay (2008).

Baseball is constantly evolving. Adapt or die.
   13. WSPanic Posted: December 13, 2013 at 12:42 PM (#4617471)
I guess letting EVERYONE play regardless of skin colour doesn't register with Mr. Rose.


That wasn't a rule change.
   14. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: December 13, 2013 at 01:11 PM (#4617490)
Since 1900:
- DH
- Color line
- FA and arbitration
- instant replay
- changing height of mound
- additional rounds of playoffs
- night games
- spitballs
- sac flies
- batting helmet
- changes to gloves
- batting gloves
- sunglasses
- body armor
- saves

All of those changes (rule-based or not) have had an impact on the action on the field.
   15. dr. scott Posted: December 13, 2013 at 01:15 PM (#4617496)
That wasn't a rule change.


It was an unwritten rule change...
   16. Ray (RDP) Posted: December 13, 2013 at 04:22 PM (#4617658)
"About the only major changes they’ve made to the game since 1869 was when they lowered the mound afrter the 1968 season and the designated hitter."

I guess letting EVERYONE play regardless of skin colour doesn't register with Mr. Rose.


Or maybe he was just talking about rules changes.
   17. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: December 13, 2013 at 05:17 PM (#4617697)
“What’s next? Are they going to eliminate the takeout slide on double plays at second base?” Rose asked.

Yes please.
   18. rlc Posted: December 13, 2013 at 05:21 PM (#4617700)
Bert Blyleven says that if you want to reduce collisions, you need a better hashing function. And he's Dutch, so he knows his hash.
   19. Bitter Mouse Posted: December 13, 2013 at 06:23 PM (#4617720)
“What’s next? Are they going to eliminate the takeout slide on double plays at second base?” Rose asked.

Yes please.


I am told the only thing that can do this is an unwritten rule.
   20. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: December 13, 2013 at 06:51 PM (#4617724)
Since 1900:
- DH
- Color line
- FA and arbitration
- instant replay
- changing height of mound
- additional rounds of playoffs
- night games
- spitballs
- sac flies
- batting helmet
- changes to gloves
- batting gloves
- sunglasses
- body armor
- saves



The introduction of turf was bigger than most of them.

I am told the only thing that can do this is an unwritten rule.


Really?

   21. cardsfanboy Posted: December 13, 2013 at 07:08 PM (#4617732)
Since 1900:
- DH
- Color line
- FA and arbitration
- instant replay
- changing height of mound
- additional rounds of playoffs
- night games
- spitballs
- sac flies
- batting helmet
- changes to gloves
- batting gloves
- sunglasses
- body armor
- saves


You forgot the Keith Hernandez rule change.

A lot of that is just changing technology though. Making the spitball illegal along with replacing the ball frequently is probably the single biggest actual rule change in the game, arguably even more than the DH.

I'm not sure that banning collisions is going to actually be feasible to be honest. I don't see much changes resulting from this "rule" change.
   22. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: December 13, 2013 at 07:25 PM (#4617733)
I'm not sure that banning collisions is going to actually be feasible to be honest. I don't see much changes resulting from this "rule" change.


I don't get this. Collisions are banned at almost every level of the sport, and the rule works perfectly fine. Players have to learn to pile drive the catcher when they get to the professional level. It shouldn't be hard for them to unlearn/stop learning it.
   23. Random Transaction Generator Posted: December 13, 2013 at 07:38 PM (#4617736)
"About the only major changes they’ve made to the game since 1869 was when they lowered the mound afrter the 1968 season and the designated hitter."

I guess letting EVERYONE play regardless of skin colour doesn't register with Mr. Rose.

That wasn't a rule change.


He didn't say the word "rule" in his sentence.
   24. asinwreck Posted: December 13, 2013 at 07:48 PM (#4617738)
   25. Everybody Loves Tyrus Raymond Posted: December 13, 2013 at 08:16 PM (#4617743)
Did you even bother to read the excerpt?
   26. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: December 13, 2013 at 10:48 PM (#4617770)
Pete Rose being unaware of changes since 1869 explains a lot. He must not have known about Landis' measures to stop gambling in baseball.
   27. Ray (RDP) Posted: December 14, 2013 at 12:07 AM (#4617798)
He didn't say the word "rule" in his sentence.


Wow, you're doubling down on this? I've never been a fan of Pete Rose but if one wanted to make the most uncharitable, dishonest reading of his statement they'd take your view.
   28. Ray (RDP) Posted: December 14, 2013 at 12:07 AM (#4617800)
This was interesting, from TFA:

“I had nothing against Fosse,” said Rose. “I had him over to my house the night before the game, but to this day he denies that. And he won’t do autographs shows with me and still says I deliberately tried to end his career. If that was my intent, I sure did a terrible job of it.”
   29. Karl from NY Posted: December 14, 2013 at 01:38 AM (#4617829)
You forgot the Keith Hernandez rule change.

This wasn't a change, the rulebook always said that fielders must stand in fair territory. Hernandez was just the first/only player to violate it enough to get noticed and enforced.
   30. Random Transaction Generator Posted: December 14, 2013 at 03:03 AM (#4617845)
He didn't say the word "rule" in his sentence.


Wow, you're doubling down on this?


I find it funny that you (Ray (RDP)) are trying to call someone else out for nit-picking and taking statements literally...
   31. Long Time Listener, First Time Caller Posted: December 14, 2013 at 03:58 AM (#4617849)
“I’m a traditionalist,” he said. “I thought the game has always been pretty good. About the only major changes they’ve made to the game since 1869 was when they lowered the mound afrter the 1968 season and the designated hitter. I mean, the game is going pretty good, isn’t it?



As a White Sox fan, I seem to remember a pretty big change to the game around 1920.
   32. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: December 14, 2013 at 07:12 AM (#4617855)

As a White Sox fan, I seem to remember a pretty big change to the game around 1920.


Outlawed Brain and Nerve Tonic?
   33. calhounite Posted: December 14, 2013 at 08:48 AM (#4617864)
Rose's point about the static nature of the game being one of its greatest attractions is well considered. This is just another chapter in the development of Seligball (which started with the dh rule - Selig's promotion) in the quest for more bucks. Criminalizing inside pitches, the NBAitis of championship eligibles, etc have all served to bastardize the game and increase the danger to the participants. Now this. The catcher knowing he can get steamrailed blocking the plate PREVENTS concussions.
   34. Lassus Posted: December 14, 2013 at 12:06 PM (#4617938)
...and increase the danger to the participants. Now this. The catcher knowing he can get steamrailed blocking the plate PREVENTS concussions.

Have you been hit in the head recently?

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