Ichiro turns 39 in October. Although durability isn’t an issue, he’s lost a step essential for somebody who thrives on beating out infield grounders, and he’s not getting it back. Ichiro’s decline from 2010, his last All-Star season, mirrors Martinez’s decline after his last All-Star season, in 2003.
Martinez retired with the same regal style that distinguished him as a player. Will Ichiro follow Edgar’s cue?
It’s a delicate question for an organization whose majority owner lives in Japan, and rightfully regards Ichiro to be a national treasure. But as the skills of Japan’s national treasure continue to diminish in Seattle, it’s a question that will linger.
...• Ask Edgar to reminisce with Ichiro about the experience of a retirement weekend. During a season-ending series against the Texas Rangers in 2004, the Mariners honored Martinez on a Saturday night, in front of full-house crowd at Safeco Field. Baseball commissioner Bud Selig showed up, informing fans that the annual prize for best designated hitter would henceforth be known as “The Edgar Martinez Award.”
...Edgar isn’t big on talking, and Ichiro isn’t big on listening, but the conversation might turn a thorny conundrum into a classic storybook conclusion.
The one where everybody lives happily ever after.
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1. Esoteric throws a 'hard slider' Posted: June 24, 2012 at 11:43 AM (#4164707)The one thing that concerns me is that Seattle did bring Ken Griffey Jr. back for "one more season" when anyone with a brain could have foreseen that it would be a disaster. And that was on a team that people (incorrectly) thought might do something, as opposed to a team like the '13 Mariners that doesn't figure to contend and figures to draw poorly anyway. (I have no clue whether a crappy, decrepit version of Ichiro actually does continue to draw fans, but the question is whether Mariner management thinks he does.)
Ichiro has gone from leading the AL every year in hits to being 9th last year, and 8th so far in 2012. It's not as if he's holding back Seattle's offensive ugh!-ernaut, or that he's blocking the 25-, 27-, and 29-year-old outfielders playing CF and RF in Triple-A.
He's in the Mike Mussina boat. "Do I want to commit to another three years of this?"
Boy, is there egg on my face.
Other Japanese players from the Mariners have done that - retiring early despite nice MLB contracts. I've suspected under the table dealings with the Japanese owner.
I have noticed that the numbers to make 3,000 in MLB and to "beat" Rose are conveniently close. However, it could become an inexorable crawl through the last hundred hits.
Ichiro is making $18 million this year - they need to get rid of that huge salary, and even half that is too much for what he brings. The young OF's look pretty good lately, those being Guttierez, Saunders and Wells. Ichiro needs to get out of their way. But he could well be back.
It's true that Seattle doesn't exactly have a cavalcade of potential stars to replace Ichiro, but those guys wouldn't make $17 million like he does either. Okay, fine, I'm sure he's not going to make $17M next year. But how much of a paycut do you expect him to take? I guess a lot depends on what exactly he asks for. Again, though, you risk the Griffey situation where the guy is awful and you're damned if you play him and damned if you don't. Maybe you don't mind, because the team will stink anyway... or maybe you figure that there's no point trying to rehabilitate a 39-year-old, because the team will stink anyway.
I suppose it is still early enough in the season that Ichiro can extend his career a couple of years by hitting .350 or something the rest of the way. That might not actually prove "he's back!", but, it will elicit a very different reaction than if he puts up back-to-back bad years. That said, right now his 2011-12 performance is extremely marginal. Please do not cite "hits" as if it means something when a guy who plays every game and hits leadoff is hitting .270 with no walks or power. That's terrible.
If I can attempt to read two peoples' minds simultaneously, I suspect #1 was implying that Ichiro knows he's playing badly and will retire of his own volition, and he seems like a proud enough person to make that quite plausible.
Ah Ray, we always new you'd give us the "told you so's" once Ichiro! declined. However I recall the discussions as being more of the "is Ichiro! a hall of famer" type of variety. And most here thought, not really but the MSM will see it differently and put him in anyway simply because he is, was, and will always be Ichiro!
Not really. Most people thought (and think), "he IS a Hall of Famer, because of his NPB+MLB career."
And basically those same people thought, "Even if you don't count his NPB career, he's ALMOST done enough in MLB anyway, so this will be a moot point before too long." This was the crux of the debate, as these people were sure that he was going to do enough in MLB anyway - and were sure he was almost there. I saw him as being further away, needing to approach 2600 games (Dwight Evans's number) at his then-established level of play.
Some people, like Andy, felt that he had done enough in MLB already.
Some people, like Srul, criticized me for daring to hold the opinion that Ichiro wasn't deserving.
A handful of people, like Chris, basically saw it like I do, more or less.
Ichiro might be done, and he's an excellent-fielding, excellent running, corner OF with 1820 games and a .285 EqA. That's not a Hall of Famer.
Tuque:
Ray:
It's over. It's always been over.
He may not be blocking anyone but he's got to be holding the offense back. Since beginning of last season, he may have 12th most hits in ML but he has the most AB. He's 3rd in PA but 34th in times on base (including ROE). He is, of course, #1 in outs made.
.300 OBP with no power? Yikes! It will be interesting to see the level of offers he receives to play next year.
Edgar didn't retire with "dignity" or "regal style". He spent the last ten years of his career as a DH, and only retired when his body was no longer capable of holding up under even the least-strenuous parts of a professional baseball player's job.
If he'd retired with dignity, it would've been at the point in his career when he was no longer physically robust enough to play in the field.
Have to be a fool to want those six years on your team.
That reminds me, does anyone think Jeter can hit .400 this year?
He only has to hit .500 from here on out.
Bigger question is, can Jeter hit .300 this year?
OTOH, Pujols is back on his feed.
That's more the Mariners' fault for batting him lead off last year and lead off and third this year than it is for Ichiro showing up to work everyday.
And also, when you type "Ichiro" in BR, you get Ichiro and Pablo "Fat Ichiro" Sandoval? That's lame.
And what would Mr. Glass have hit if he'd been playing in the field like a real player?
He was a hothouse flower, thriving only under unnatural conditions that hid his fundamental weakness.
That and the fact that he never walks. seriously, how long does a .646 OPS corner outfielder get to play until someone says "Let's try something else."
If you play the game "the right way" and work hard, Wedge seems unconcerned with performance. Wedge is an extremely likable guy, mind you, but his willingness to stick with veterans who "grind" is maddening.
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