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Sunday, October 25, 2009

McGwire a possibility for Cardinals hitting coach?

According to ESPN.com’s Buster Olney, La Russa has signed a multi-year contract to return. But Hal McRae will not return as the Cardinals hitting coach and will be replaced by McGwire.

“We’re getting closer,” La Russa told ESPN.com on Sunday. “But nothing has been decided yet. I can’t tell you anything yet.”

McGwire’s worked with Schumaker the past couple of offseasons, to apparently good effect. Given that the Cardinals saw about as few pitches per plate appearance as anyone in the league in 2009, I could imagine how McGwire—if he preaches the patience he displayed as a hitter—might really be able to help.

Levi Stahl Posted: October 25, 2009 at 09:06 PM | 47 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
Tags: cardinals

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1. Ray (RDP)

Posted: October 25, 2009 at 09:39 PM (#3365343)

Burn him. At the stake.

And take away his children.

2. Lassus Posted: October 25, 2009 at 09:48 PM (#3365348)

At the point of a gun!

EDIT: I suppose if he's already been immolated, the gun won't really be necessary to take away his children.

3. base ball chick Posted: October 25, 2009 at 09:50 PM (#3365349)

mcgwire?

you mean that horrible evil man who forced helpless children to use steroids????

anyone think that the media won't harrass the man? even if he IS only the hitting coach

4. greenback

Posted: October 25, 2009 at 09:53 PM (#3365353)

At the point of a gun!

Held by an invisible hand?

McGwire was never much of a communicator. I'd be surprised if he makes much of a coach.

5. Steve Sparks Flying Everywhere Posted: October 25, 2009 at 09:54 PM (#3365355)

I'm expecting Joe Thurston to hit 40 home runs next year.

6. cardsfanboy

Posted: October 25, 2009 at 09:56 PM (#3365356)

McGwire was never much of a communicator. I'd be surprised if he makes much of a coach.

Holliday, Ludwick, and Schumaker all have enjoyed success and credit some of that to McGwire, Duncan and Ankiel not quite as much, but still credit McGwire. McGwire has been working out in the off season with anyone who would come to his place for several years now.

7. Justin 'The Cespedobear' T Posted: October 25, 2009 at 10:01 PM (#3365361)

Holliday sucked with the A's because he incorporated McGwire's offseason advice. He ditched it and started getting hot just before the trade.

8. cardsfanboy

Posted: October 25, 2009 at 10:08 PM (#3365364)

Holliday sucked with the A's because he incorporated McGwire's offseason advice. He ditched it and started getting hot just before the trade.

and two years before that McGwire got him to continue with the leg kick.

yahoo 2007 article

9. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader

Posted: October 25, 2009 at 10:19 PM (#3365368)

McGwire was never much of a communicator. I'd be surprised if he makes much of a coach.

You guys have had beers?

10. greenback

Posted: October 25, 2009 at 10:23 PM (#3365369)

You guys have had beers?

No, we swapped steroids way back when. He told me to take the clear when he meant the cream.

More seriously, he was very uncomfortable just talking to the media in 1998. It wasn't a Maris situation as this was not an aggressive group of reporters.

Holliday sucked with the A's because he incorporated McGwire's offseason advice. He ditched it and started getting hot just before the trade.

Yeah, from what I gather, this means the Cardinals either don't know about Holliday's problems with McGwire or they're giving up on Holliday.

11. Tripon Posted: October 25, 2009 at 10:33 PM (#3365374)

Its official.

12. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader

Posted: October 25, 2009 at 10:36 PM (#3365378)

More seriously, he was very uncomfortable just talking to the media in 1998. It wasn't a Maris situation as this was not an aggressive group of reporters.

McGwire doesn't like talking to reporters so he can't talk hitting with MLB players. This is what you're going with?

edit: Good for the Cards. #### all the nannies out there. I guess this mean LaRussa is coming back?

13. Eric P. Posted: October 25, 2009 at 10:39 PM (#3365384)

Can't wait to see what he looks like in a uniform nowadays.

14. Let the bears pay the bear tax, I pay the Homer ta Posted: October 25, 2009 at 11:00 PM (#3365392)

More seriously, he was very uncomfortable just talking to the media in 1998. It wasn't a Maris situation as this was not an aggressive group of reporters.

Just because he's a private person doesn't mean he isn't a good teacher.

15. Walt Davis Posted: October 25, 2009 at 11:09 PM (#3365395)

This will be interesting.

On the one hand, he just sticks with "I'm not here to talk about the past."

Or, quite possibly, this will be followed by some form of mea culpa (maybe at his introductory press conference) and the image rehab to get him into the HoF will have begun.

16. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim

Posted: October 25, 2009 at 11:17 PM (#3365402)

On the one hand, he just sticks with "I'm not here to talk about the past."

Or, quite possibly, this will be followed by some form of mea culpa (maybe at his introductory press conference) and the image rehab to get him into the HoF will have begun.

I don't see how he could stick with the former. You know there's going to be a crush of questions about his (alleged) steroid use, and there's a real possibility that his presence could be a distraction for the team.

I don't doubt McGwire's got something to teach, though. He learned at the feet of Charlie Lau, after all. I'm curious to see what the Cardinal power production looks like with McGwire on board.

17. greenback

Posted: October 25, 2009 at 11:58 PM (#3365418)

Just because he's a private person doesn't mean he isn't a good teacher.

This is a chicken and egg thing. He recognizes that he can't communicate well, so he tends to clam up, to be a private person. That would be a problem for any teacher.

Maybe Shooty's right, that talking with reporters is different from talking with players. But social scientists seem to think that situational extroversion is the exception rather than the rule.

18. Srul Itza At Home Posted: October 26, 2009 at 12:16 AM (#3365432)

social scientists seem to think that situational extroversion is the exception rather than the rule.

Social scientist is a contradiction in terms.

I have known plenty of people who were very good in one-on-ones, but lousy in public speaking situations.

19. Baldrick Posted: October 26, 2009 at 12:19 AM (#3365434)

He recognizes that he can't communicate well, so he tends to clam up, to be a private person. That would be a problem for any teacher.

I'm an extremely private person. I would absolutely detest the media swarm if I were famous enough to warrant it. I actively avoid talking to people that I'm not close friends with if it's unnecessary.

I'm also a pretty good teacher. The difference is that most of the time I find the random chatter to be intimidating an unpleasurable. But the act of teaching is enjoyable, worthwhile, and engaging.

I know a lot of people who are the same way. Those who are at root not very social, but who will open up like nobody's business on issues that they care about. Don't see any reason McGwire couldn't be the same way.

20. sunnyday2 Posted: October 26, 2009 at 12:49 AM (#3365470)

some form of mea culpa (maybe at his introductory press conference) and the image rehab to get him into the HoF will have begun.

One could hope.

21. robinred

Posted: October 26, 2009 at 01:07 AM (#3365503)

This shows, maybe, how much McGwire wanted to be around the game (or maybe he needs money or both). This is going to be a hassle for him.

Also, having worked in education for years, I can say with zero doubt that many introverted people make fine teachers and many chatty extroverts do not. And vice versa.

22. Levi Stahl Posted: October 26, 2009 at 01:12 AM (#3365512)

I have hopes that this will work that are based on McGwire's obvious desire to teach over the past few seasons. He's been unwilling to take an official role, one presumes because of his publicity-shy nature, but it seems he's more or less opened up his house every winter to almost anyone who wants to work--and people have wanted to work with him, over multiple offseasons, so it doesn't seem unreasonable to hope that he'll be effective.

23. Tripon Posted: October 26, 2009 at 01:13 AM (#3365516)

B-Ref has McGwire making $74 million in his career. Unless he was keeping wild Siberian Tigers in his backyard, I can't see how he needs the money.

24. robinred

Posted: October 26, 2009 at 01:18 AM (#3365524)

I can't see how he needs the money.

Highly unlikely, but didn't he get divorced? I just heard that Nicolas Cage is suing an ex-advisor; claims the guy took/cost him tens of millions, and I think Cage also has 25 cars or six houses or something. You never know with these guys. McGwire SEEMS like the type who would invest carefully. Probably McGwire just wants to be around the game again--I think most retired ballplayers do.

25. base ball chick Posted: October 26, 2009 at 01:20 AM (#3365527)

Baldrick Posted: October 25, 2009 at 08:19 PM (#3365434)

I'm an extremely private person. I would absolutely detest the media swarm if I were famous enough to warrant it. I actively avoid talking to people that I'm not close friends with if it's unnecessary.

- same with me
i have always had a very difficult time in any group unless i know everyone in it very very well

26. Levi Stahl Posted: October 26, 2009 at 01:28 AM (#3365544)

- same with me
i have always had a very difficult time in any group unless i know everyone in it very very well

Like all of us Primates?

27. DosRafaels Posted: October 26, 2009 at 01:31 AM (#3365550)

anyone think that the media won't harrass the man? even if he IS only the hitting coach

Unlike the 1st comments hyperbole I don't think that Mcgwire is the worst guy on earth, but I find it funny that many just want to act like he didn't do anything either. There can be a middle ground where the media can try to get him to answer some questions and we allow Derek Jeter to knee cap him.

28. asinwreck Posted: October 26, 2009 at 01:37 AM (#3365567)

I don't doubt McGwire's got something to teach, though. He learned at the feet of Charlie Lau, after all.

When did McGwire work with Lau? Lau died when McGwire was still in college.

29. base ball chick Posted: October 26, 2009 at 01:40 AM (#3365576)

Levi Stahl Posted: October 25, 2009 at 09:28 PM (#3365544)

- same with me
i have always had a very difficult time in any group unless i know everyone in it very very well

Like all of us Primates?

- smile
i lurked for a LONG time before posting
besides, it is MUCH easier to write than actually go face to face and talk
and now all yall boys my friends

but it would still be real hard for me to go into a group of Yew Peeple and not feel uncomfortable/intimidated

30. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: October 26, 2009 at 04:53 AM (#3366217)

In the future, McGwire will not be there to talk about not having been there to talk about the past, nor the past.

31. ValueArbitrageur Posted: October 26, 2009 at 05:42 AM (#3366267)

When did McGwire work with Lau? Lau died when McGwire was still in college.

That didn't stop him from digging up poor Charley's feet, and studying them intently.

32. God Posted: October 26, 2009 at 05:48 AM (#3366271)

What's the big deal? It's not like McGwire is the first steroid guy to be hired as a coach, right? Matt Williams, for one, was sort of a coach for the D-backs this year (wasn't in the dugout during games, but was on the field in uniform before games). Surely there are a few others I'm not thinking of.

33. retro-shiite Posted: October 26, 2009 at 05:56 AM (#3366279)

The NL central contenders' hitting coach hires might end up being the most interesting hot stove action in the division this offseason.

34. retro-shiite Posted: October 26, 2009 at 05:58 AM (#3366281)

i have always had a very difficult time in any group unless i know everyone in it very very well

"Normally I don't usually meet people, unless I already know them."

--David Stephens, "Shallow Grave" (a great movie, btw...)

35. CFiJ Posted: October 26, 2009 at 07:14 AM (#3366302)

"Shallow Grave" (a great movie, btw...)

Starring Ewan McGregor and Chris Eccleston, and directed by Danny Boyle. That's like a perfect storm of good cinema.

36. Curse of the Andino Posted: October 26, 2009 at 08:46 AM (#3366311)

37. Levi Stahl Posted: October 26, 2009 at 01:02 PM (#3366356)

The NL central contenders' hitting coach hires might end up being the most interesting hot stove action in the division this offseason.

I hadn't thought of it that way: an NL Central hitting coach arms race! I'll see your Jaramillo and raise you a HR champ!

38. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: October 26, 2009 at 01:20 PM (#3366371)

This is a chicken and egg thing. He recognizes that he can't communicate well, so he tends to clam up, to be a private person. That would be a problem for any teacher.

Maybe Shooty's right, that talking with reporters is different from talking with players. But social scientists seem to think that situational extroversion is the exception rather than the rule.

I think you're missing the point: it's not that talking with reporters is different than talking to players, but that talking about oneself is different than talking about batting stances.

39. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: October 26, 2009 at 01:23 PM (#3366375)

Like all of us Primates?

All those people living in their mothers' basements?

40. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader

Posted: October 26, 2009 at 01:25 PM (#3366379)

I remember, early/mid-'90s, before the Cards trade, McGwire talked about how he really wanted to be a coach when his playing days were done, said it in the context of, ~'I hit 49 HRs as a rookie, then .201 a couple years later; I've got a lot of insights I can share.~

I think this is the key for Mac. When he first came up, it obviously was easy for him to succeed and then he went into an awful, multi-year funk. He did a lot of work re-inventing his swing and learning to make adjustments. The common criticism of stars not being good coaches I don't think applies to McGwire because he went through a stretch where he was nowhere near a star.

41. GregQ Posted: October 26, 2009 at 01:29 PM (#3366381)

I would think that after a quick initial burst of media coverage it would all blow over, just as it pretty much as for Manny and Arod. The thing I wonder about is would he be a good hitting coach? It always seemed it was a HR or nothing with him during his playing days.

42. Jay Seaver Posted: October 26, 2009 at 01:34 PM (#3366385)

Or, quite possibly, this will be followed by some form of mea culpa (maybe at his introductory press conference) and the image rehab to get him into the HoF will have begun.

I don't know if McGwire will necessarily start opening up and admitting to things, but one possibility I see is the story on him changing - if he's getting nothing but positive marks as a hitting coach, it might serve as a rebuttal to the idea that his stats were entirely a chemical creation.

43. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader

Posted: October 26, 2009 at 01:38 PM (#3366387)

It always seemed it was a HR or nothing with him during his playing days.

Well, that's better results than a lot of other guys who become hitting coaches!

44. ValueArbitrageur Posted: October 26, 2009 at 03:18 PM (#3366486)

The thing I wonder about is would he be a good hitting coach? It always seemed it was a HR or nothing with him during his playing days.

Not exactly "nothing"

All Time Rankings
Mark McGwire
OPS+ 12th
Walks per AB 4th
HR per AB 1st

45. Best Regards, Larry M. Posted: October 26, 2009 at 03:29 PM (#3366494)

"Coach, I want to have your approach at the plate. How did you do it back when you were playing?"

"I'm not here to talk about the past."

46. flournoy Posted: October 26, 2009 at 03:32 PM (#3366499)

"Coach, I want to have your approach at the plate. How did you do it back when you were playing?"

"I know how I did it, but I'm not telling you."

47. bjhanke Posted: October 26, 2009 at 04:46 PM (#3366565)

People - good hitters like Matt Holliday - have been seeking McGwire's hitting coaching for at least four years that I know of. I think it's safe to assume that they weren't asking about which steroids to use, since the witch-hunt media are still obsessing over McGwire. In fact, they had to have known that asking McGwire anything was risking a witch-hunt. With that in mind, I don't see how he can be anything less than an excellent hitting coach. What he most knows, of course, is how to judge a strike zone. His secondary skill was mastering the uppercut mechanics. Several Cardinals (Ankiel, Rasmus, Ludwick, Ryan, Schumacker, maybe even Holliday) could really use them a dose of that judgement. Also, by all accounts, steroids or no, McGwire is widely considered to be one of the most experienced and proficient weight-room guys ever. That is, he has all the credentials to make a fine hitting coach. Whether he will actually work out at the job is another question, but he is an outstanding choice to try. - Brock Hanke

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McGwire a possibility for Cardinals hitting coach?

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