That’s great. Actual physical contract. Now, can you move?
After Dickey called out the Mets for an incredibly low contract offer, the team decided to revisit the playbook they used with Anna Benson, and with various players they’ve disagreed with in recent years; they attacked.
From today’s Post:
The Mets, meanwhile, have mounting concerns whether all of Dickey’s off-the-field endeavors could impact his on-field results or his standing in the clubhouse if the perception is that he has become too absorbed with his new celebrity.
The Mets already were annoyed, The Post has learned, Dickey last week turned down a personal appearance request from owner Fred Wilpon.
Here’s Dickey, meanwhile: “In the context of the market, you want what you think is fair. I feel like we’re asking for less than what’s fair because that’s how it’s been for me. There is a surprise sometimes when things don’t get done quickly and you already think you’re extending the olive branch. At the same time, they have a budget they have to adhere to. I don’t know those numbers. And I try not to take it personally.”
That must be hard, when your team’s management is suggesting anonymously, and on the basis of no apparent real-life evidence, that your ego is having an impact on your ability to play well and be a good teammate.
Repoz
Posted: December 12, 2012 at 03:51 PM |
215 comment(s)
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The Wilpons are pathetic motherfuckers. May they rot in hell for all time.
Carry on.
.
We have a deal. Do you want to call it in, or should I?
==
The thing that bugged me about both of those players is that they at least appeared to love playing in Toronto, in spite of the team being consistently mediocre. Delgado was a class act all around, and JP blamed the team's failures on him. It was terrible. They handled the Halladay situation a lot better.
I think the comparison to RA works for precisely that reason-- no one should want to be a Met right now, not with the team spending like they're the 2013 Marlins. But Dickey really feels a loyalty to them, and they're pretty much saying #### off.
FWIW, if he has to go somewhere, I'll be really glad to see him end up with the Jays. I'm still hoping to some day see a Mets/Jays World Series, but it probably won't happen during RA's tenure.
Me too.
Once they fired JP. When JP was still handling it, he was making as big a mess of it as he did with Delgado.
Beltran, Reyes, KRod and Dickey for Wheeler, nothing, nothing and two bleh prospects. And people still are telling me to trust "the plan".
Maybe the Mets are letting JP handle the Dickey situation?
It's not like RA Dickey on a 1/5 contract will become untradeable any time soon. And if the Mets don't have the money to pay him, then it's not like they need to move on this to get going on the free agent market.
How does this apply here?
Depends on the ruling if this applies to an extension of the contract as well.
And that 78 wins for Boston goes to 76.
The Jays system isn't weak, but the front line talent other than Travis d'Arnaud consists of kid pitchers in the Midwest League. It's hard to see the Mets going for that, which leaves a d'Arnaud package. Which the Jays most likely won't do. The prospect match isn't great.
MCoA: RA at $13M/yr for 3 is worth d'Arnaud, IMO. I don't think RA in "I don't intend to play more than a season for Toronto" is worth him. Beyond that, I agree with you on the prospect fit-- I can't see Toronto giving up both Gose and d'Arnaud.
And now JP is working his magic in New York. Swell.
Is it, though? Maybe it's smoke, but I've read a few comments from GMs and others indicating that Dickey's value in 2014 and 2015 is very unclear, and that it's hardly a mortal lock that 2/26 for those years represents any kind of steal. OTOH, it's much, much easier to predict Dickey for 2013, and his cost is low, and certain.
I guess the proof is in the diligence with which prospective trade partners are pursuing an extension. If the hold up is Dickey declining to sign a 2/26 extension, then clearly that's a fair chunk of what teams are trading for.
It would be weird for Dickey to be negotiating his extension with the Jays, through the Mets. I could be wrong but that's what I've always thought the 3 day window that often accompanies these deals was for, like the time Santana signed with the Mets.
Is this a pathetic state of the franchise? You're damn right it is, but this is where they are.
I was thinking the same thing. If the Rangers can get Dickey with Olt as the primary piece they should be sprinting to the window.
@123--yes they should. And boy, will that suck, on the order of a press conference where Alderson says, 'see? Look at all the magic beans we got!'
You mean the trade proposals Alderson hasn't accepted? Stop wetting your pants.
Why the unwarranted hostility, fuckstain?
You wrote (and then, altered I see) about a trade where Alderson "gets 2 major league starting position players in return, 5-6 years apiece under team control" for Dickey.
If this is your roto league wet dream, why mention it?
If it's a possibility, why not be specific?
Um, good?
I will also say that losing Dickey would blow, but if we get value back, I can't be against a good trade.
Damn, Gose struck out 59 times in 166 ABs after his callup last year. IIRC, he was rushed to the majors due to some injuries, but still, that's not a good number.
Just for fun:
Gose at age 20 in AA:
.253/.349/.415, 154 K/62 BB(587 PA), 70 SB/15 CS
Gomez at age 20 in AA:
.281/.350/.423, 97 K/27 BB (486 PA), 41 SB/9 CS
Both players advanced to the PCL at age 21, then got called after injuries left the major league club short on help, with the league inflating their stats to make them appear ready:
Gose at Las Vegas:
.286/.366/.419
Gomez at New Orleans:
.286/.363/.414
In their callup seasons:
Gose
.223/.303/.319 (189 PA), 15/3 sb/cs
Gomez
.232/.288/.304 (139 PA), 12/3 sb/cs
That's kind of weird.
I wouldn't mind starting the season with Nieuwenhuis in CF if this trade happens. You don't trade your Cy Young winner and try to win. It's a sign you are rebuilding and evaluating players. The Mets need to find out what Kirk's role on this team will be.
I don't really buy the Gomez/Gose comparison. It looks like Gose has shown more patience at the plate.
I wasn't saying the comparison was bad. If last year wasn't a fluke, he's a really good player.
Either way, if the Mets can land both d'Arnaud and Gose, they're banking on d'Arnaud as the real prize of the deal. Gose doesn't have to be an All-Star for them to do well in the trade.
IIRC, he wasn't great defensively in CF. Depending on who they end up with for the corners, the Mets might need a good glove out there. I agree with the more general point though-- 2013 doesn't really matter. Still, getting players this close to being major league ready in return for Dickey is a plus, in that it minimizes their risk of flaming out as they climb the minor league ladder.
I don't think either of them are going to contribute much to the 2013 Mets. Gose's bat is probably at least a year away, if it ever arrives, and if the Mets get him--if he's even fully healed--they should keep D'Arnaud in the minors for awhile to keep his arb clock from ticking.
This sounds right, and it's why the rumors of Gose and Arenciba, a platoon catcher, maybe, with a .275 OBP and no upside, were chilling.
Seems like the Mets have the leverage here, and could just tell them to pound sand? As someone on the site may have mentioned, the AL East seems weaker than normal this coming season, and Toronto could pounce.
Now they're publicly been trashing him the media, let it be known they're not interested in an extension, and have done their best to piss off Dickey to the point where he wouldn't be inclined to sign an extension anyway even if the Mets wanted to change their position.
The leverage the Mets have is limited. and they are not likely to get a better deal from the Blue Jays.
The Jays already have Adam Lind as their 1B/DH who can't hit lefties to save his life. No need for Duda whatsoever.
Lind hasn't even hit RHP especially well for a platoon first baseman with unexceptional defense the last few seasons though. Sub .800 OPS vs RHP in both of the last 2 seasons (in addition to his usual futility against LHP). 2009 was really the last season that he mashed RHP (though he was decent in 2010, his OBP was only .327 vs RHP).
As for Duda, if he's who the Jays want in order to let go of D'Arnaud, I'd catapault Duda to Toronto. Duda's the definition of fungible--a guy with no value on D who might be able to hit a little, but has no chance of becoming anything special. The Jays would be fools to take such a replaceable part as part of a package for a catcher who might play in half a dozen all star games.
That is excellent news.
Espn says D'Arnaud "Was voted as the best defensive catcher by Eastern League Managers in Baseball America’s “Best Tools” edition... " He tore a thumb ligament in October, but that has to be 2011, right? His downside is a guy who gets hurt every year, plays 60 games a season, and makes it impossible to get the catcher situation settled because you're always piecing in around him.
With Wheeler, Harvey, D'Arnaud, and Gose (is that too greedy?), the Mets would have four Top 40 prospects (if you cut Gose and Wheeler slack for playing in the majors in 2012), two of whom got their feet wet last season. As of mid-year they were 4th, 22nd, 37th, and 38th. Fangraphs seems to have had D'Arnaud at #8 until he got hurt. That would be a hell of system at the top end. The Mets are only missing bulk, and we won't know how they're doing with that until the last couple of drafts develop.
I don't quite get the love for Gose, but Marc Hulet at fangraphs says Gose has real value in the majors even if he hits only .230 or .240. I guess he walks enough to make that tolerable, he has a little power, or at least enough to keep OFers honest, and if he's a plus CFer, that covers a lot of sins. Unfortunately, Hulet's still talking about stolen bases as though they'd matter in Gose's case. Going 228 and 80 in the minors didn't help his game.
I still hate this, though.
"As of this morning, the deal had four players coming to the Mets and three to the Blue Jays, according to Mike Puma of the New York Post (Twitter links). Toronto also wants a catcher back in the deal, and that could be Thole. The Mets have discussed getting pitching prospect Noah Syndergaard in the deal as well, Puma tweets."
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#73hGBsmbrK2QgPTd.99
Will anyone miss Thole at this point? He's yet to put up a one win season, acc to bWAR.
More:
Sherman reports (on Twitter) that Gose is not part of the trade talks for Dickey. The Blue Jays are building a package around d'Arnaud.
If that was true, the other player could be anyone and it would still be a good deal for the Mets.
This wouldn't surprise me at all either. I think it's gotta include one of Davis or Duda.
This. I know he didn't have the best year but he did hit 32 homers and drew 66 walks. He's never going to be a guy who hits .300 consistently but I think he's definitely capable of hitting for a good enough average to get to a .350 OBP. One year with a poor BABIP isn't enough to get me down on his potential.
It's going to end up being Dickey/Thole/(Flores?) for D'Arnaud/Syndergaard/Buck or something pretty close to that.
It makes sense because the Jays need a 1B/DH, and they're reportedly sending along a top 50 pitching prospect along with a near-MLB ready top-20 catching prospect. I was trying to figure out what more the Mets might be sending. If they get Sanchez or Syndegaard along with d'Arnaud, without giving up any more real talent, that's a very nice trade for the Mets. Certainly, it could happen.
Great summary, and probably why the rumors sound good for the Mets side of things. The Jays can really use Dickey right now.
Solid, cheap back up catcher coming off a down year; solid, cheap, GG potential starter at 1B coming off a down year; dirt cheap, solid Cy Young winner signable for two more years at a reasonable price, in return for a terrific but often injured catching prospect, a very promising pitching prospect, and filler?
That's not a deal I'd make.
Lefties just killed Davis in 2012 (and 2011), but in 2010 he was fine against them. I remember thinking 2010 meant he turned a corner and had overcome his minor league platoon issues, but maybe not.
Maybe he's just miscast without a platoon partner, and he's an All-Star from the right side, but should sit against lefties.
Davis is .266/.356/.501/.857 against righties for his career, but only .217/.281/.361/.643 versus lefties.
Subtracting at BBRef and a lefthanded reliever can roll the ball to the plate and get him out. Could be he's just being asked to do something he can't (the sign of a poor organization), and after three years it's time to admit that for 120 games a year, he can be star, but not for all 162.
Snydergaard and Sanchez are not both leaving in the same trade. Pure fantasy. Sanchez's name hasn't even been mentioned in print as being involved, only in here by someone. Not that i'm opposed to trading either one of them in the right deal, personally.
And to update on myself, no less, Martino just now is saying what McCullough had indeed said a few hours ago (I have now found), that "Syndergaard and Sanchez have been discussed". McCullough's reporting has not been showing up anywhere in the TO Jays news cycle.
Andy McCullough
@McCulloughSL
"Because I guess this was unclear: The Mets wouldn't get BOTH Syndergaard and Sanchez back. Just one. If at all."
If they can get a young OFer I'd be really happy with the offseason...what is Arizona looking for for Upton?
Provided the unnamed Mets prospect is not a significant piece (and I don't imagine it is), this is a good return for Dickey. I think this is the right move, but as I mentioned the other day, it still kind of makes me sad. The Mets need to do things like this so that they can be good again, but that's only true because the Wilpons lack the decency to sell the team, as they are unable to support it in any respectable manner.
FWIW, Jim Callis of Baseball America, on Twitter less than an hour ago said this in three consecutive Tweets:
"I admire & respect R.A. Dickey, but I wouldn't trade Travis d'Arnaud & Noah Syndergaard to get a 38-year-old knuckleballer.#BlueJays"
"Re responses to my Dickey tweet: Recognize his value, don't want to give up potential all-star C (d'Arnaud) & No. 2 SP (Syndergaard)..."
"...especially when that potential all-star C & No. 2 SP would be under my control for six years each."
Tell him to keep his voice down!
This is why I'm shocked everyone is so high on this gamble.
*Fangraphs, had Sanchez and Syndergaard swap places
I would have preferred a Dickey for Derek Holland deal myself.
I think it's the upside. The more of a sure thing a minor leaguer is, the less upside you get. The Mets could get a better bet, but he'd be a AAA guy who had a good shot at being Dillon Gee, or a hair better; but not a lot better.
Jesus. This is probably true, isn't it? In which case, keep him! That has to be the answer to this riddle!
He'll be going into his age 24 season. For a guy who is essentially fully developed as a hitter (at least, as developed as he's going to get in the minors) and was picked as the top D catcher in the Eastern League, that seems like a perfectly okay age for his rookie season.
I hate it, personally, but D'Arnaud is one hell of a prospect. If he can stay healthy he might have a Piazza lite career, with good defense. I'd still rather the Mets kept Dickey, but if you're going to trade your stars, get young guys with all-star upside, and not a grab bag of fourth OFer, fifth starters, and backup middle infielders.
I don't like some of Alderson's moves, but he's smart, and he's smart enough to go for top quality when he's got top quality to deal.
edit: D'Arnaud doesn't walk enough to have a Piazza lite career, so scratch that. Still, he hits for power, hits for average, and his D is very solid. There's a lot to like.
The Mets don't really need to be looking for guarantees, do they? High potential is a good thing.
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