Mel Hall and Luis Polonia walk into a daycare center...

...and Luis says to Mel, "I hear you're dating a 16 year old now?"

Mel: "Yeah, but she's got the body of a 12 year old!"

Educate me!

The union cleared it, so I sent you an email about the two poets in question so as not to detract from the pedophilia thread.

This is the only line that's a quote from both Beavis and Butthead (it's what Butthead says when subtitles appear during videos) and Hamlet (Act 2, Scene 2, by Hamlet himself).

I'd like to think that you've studied this, Monty.

Or necessarily that the girl is to be trusted. I think we all know some men who would rather fall into a pit of cobras than let a little neighborhood girl come into their home to get a glass of water if they are along there. Guess why? Well, there's the human little girl and there are here parents, heavily represented here on this board in full voice.

Hell, that's not just that scenario. After the one guy coworker (falsely) accused another guy coworker of sexual harassment, when I took over running things a week later, my old boss' boss and new boss said to me "You know what this means?" And I said "Yep, it means I'll never be anywhere with him without someone else there as a witness." He nodded. And he *believed* the charges.

The "for the children" movement and anti-sexual harassment movement have the same benefit as MADD does. It's so easy to twist any disagreement with their statements into "oh, so you're pro-raping children" (No, I'm just an amateur!) that it's a political third rail. Given this basically unfettered landscape, they advance their agenda without mind to anything else. In the case of MADD, so far past their original point that years after going too far even for their founder, they're now going in new directions solely to continue their own existence.

And of course, here is the best use of "for the children" ever

In the case of MADD, so far past their original point that years after going too far even for their founder, they're now going in new directions solely to continue their own existence.

This is true of many, if not most, organizations that become institutions. It's a pretty fascinating process.

It's so easy to twist any disagreement with their statements into "oh, so you're pro-raping children" (No, I'm just an amateur!) that it's a political third rail. Given this basically unfettered landscape, they advance their agenda without mind to anything else.

This is too cynical, even for me. Of course, I'm on record as being just a dupe-ish pawn of the anti-sexual harassment, won't you think about the children, sunshine, peace and harmony movement to abolish capitalism and all things good and true as we know it. That is, if you don't consider me a True Believer (non-Escovedo category).

That last statement was painted with as broad a brush as you're using, Jeff.

kthejoker Posted: June 17, 2009 at 03:10 PM (#3222544)

He means the guy from The Union Gap.

I'm gonna keep saying this till the thread dies:

This site really really could use some women.

- the couple of other women here ain't a gonna touch this with a 10 foot pole

ahem

the word "consent" is not the same thing as "agree"

i don't give a shtt what people did. parents in ancient greece gave their boys to older men to bufu'd

fathers in the Bible wondered how much they should charge to SELL their daughters into slavery

females in all sorts of places were given/sold to old guys as soon as they had a period, sometimes before

like, so?

male humans will put their penises in dead rotting bodies, farm animals, infants, fencepost holes - and this means we should all shrug no matter what/who else they should put their penises in?

children are VERY suggestible. especially when the person doing the suggesting is someone they have been taught to trust, who their parents even admire

we had a 3 year old foster child who had been taught to perform oral sex by its mother's male companion and the poor kid thought that when any man touched its head - even like giving a pat on the head, it was time to unzip the man's pants and go to work. hey, THAT'S consent all right???!!! because there is no difference between a 40 year old deciding to perform oral sex on an adult male and a 3 year old deciding to do that, right????? hey, what IF they 3 year old WANTED to do that because after it was done, it would get a cookie or something. or even praise. or, say, not a beating...

yep

full consent.

please

old guys prey on 11,12,13 year old females because we all feel awkward and ugly at that age, no matter what we look like and they know exactly what to say to get you horizontal. you THINK it is you who makes their life worth living or something really STUPID like that. when it is you who they are laughing at and using. it hits you very VERY hard when you get to be 3-6 years older - you see what really happened and it SERIOUSLY effs you up.

and hate to tell you that the same thing happens to young boys. even when the predator is female and i would bet it happens a lot more than is known because males are ashamed to admit they have been statutory raped and there is no rape crisis center for males and it is a real scarlet letter like it used to be for females

and one of the predator's first and best tricks is to convince the prey that it is a secret between them that the parents wouldn't understand/want them to have any fun/be jealous OR that if the parents are told then the predator will harm the parents. not the child, the PARENTS.

it is absolutely unbelieveable that someone actually believes that there is no difference whatsoever between a 40 year old and a 12 year old's judgement. i don't care WHAT the IQ is there is no 12 year old ANYWHERE who is able to think with the judgement of an adult. i don't care WHAT tasks you teach them to do, they still can NOT think with an adult's judgement or understand consequences of most actions

- i grew up like mccoy
and you best believe that i heard PLENTY about abuse/predators, how to avoid ever being alone with any male, especially an adult, ANY adult male

my daddy he was a little, um, overprotective and i was absolutely NEVER left alone with any male except my own brothers

This is too cynical, even for me. Of course, I'm on record as being just a dupe-ish pawn of the anti-sexual harassment, won't you think about the children, sunshine, peace and harmony movement to abolish capitalism and all things good and true as we know it. That is, if you don't consider me a True Believer (non-Escovedo category).

That last statement was painted with as broad a brush as you're using, Jeff.

Sorry, I wasn't clear in what I meant, and I mixed together some groups I have different feelings about.

MADD - Has way overstepped not only its original goal, but has done things I feel go too far period (though with little actual harm), and I greatly fear is right now moving in a direction that will do actual and potentially great harm.

Anti-sexual harassment - Hard to call this a group per se. Sexual harassment is still a problem. I think some few individual cases have gone too far the other direction, but hardly prevalent.

"For the children" - Have gone way too far in some cases. Obviously a laudable goal, and I do believe that we just have an honest but very real disagreement on what "too far" is. However, others have co-opted this for purely cynical and personal purposes, and real damage has been done to the whole as a result.

In other words, they all have the same benefit, what I said, but I meant to add that this doesn't necessarily mean they use it in the same ways. MADD as of now actively exploits their advantage and I believe they do so for motives that aren't positive and I believe that they're aware of this. "For the children" uses the advantage knowingly but not cynically and with good intentions and my only problem is with the great many who co-opt this advantage for evil purpose without comment from the movement at large.

They have a daughter who when she was 12 was having sex with her ######## uncle (mother's sister's husband) who was 25 at the time. [snip]

Four years later, her hornykid brother was 13 when he knocked up a 12 year old. [snip] hornykid found a nicer girl, and knocked her up his junior year.

Last week we were invited to hornykid's high school graduation party, also attended by his two kids, age 4 and 1. His sister, now 20, was also there with her live-in girlfriend (mom says 'at least she won't be getting pregnant'), as was their ######## uncle, now 34

Is this really your in-laws, or a synopsis of some Jerry Springer Show?

And to note, when I say "harm", I mean actual harm. I don't mean violation of civil or human rights. Those are also very bad, don't mistake me, but MADD going too far "(with little harm)" references pushing for sobriety checkpoints that pull over everyone. That is a gross violation of a number of things I hold dear, but I'm not much actually harmed by it in a tangible way.

- i grew up like mccoy

So how come you are not nearly as offensive as him?

I see Hall got 45 years and must serve a minimum of 22 1/2 years before he is eligible for parole.

Srul Itza Posted: June 17, 2009 at 07:46 PM (#3222863)

- i grew up like mccoy

So how come you are not nearly as offensive as him?

- so i am offensive just not nearly as offensive?

i don't know how to answer your question because, well, it just might could be offensive

I'm late to this discussion, but I just wanted to reiterate a point someone made earlier--leaving your kids with former MLB player Mel Hall and leaving them with a random stranger are two different things. Hall made over $6 million in his career, he's somewhat of a public figure and is likely known in his community--I can understand parents thinking that Hall would be unlikely to sexually abuse their children (he has a lot to lose, he probably doesn't have that hard a time attracting women, etc.). Obviously it was a poor decision and I'm sure they feel terrible about it, but I'm just saying I can understand what might lead to such misplaced trust or poor judgment.

To respond to Morty's point in #57 (and subsequent posts):

It was sex. Why is that bad? Why does it become terrible if it is someone 40 and 12, but not if it is someone 13 and 12. Why is there a range of outrage proportional to the age of the man? It is still the same act.

I don't think there is "a range of outrage proportional to the age of the man". I am not outraged when both parties are below the age of consent, i.e. a 13 and a 12-year-old, because both parties are too young to give consent or be considered completely morally responsible for their actions. They're both just kids; it's not that complicated. However, once you pass a certain age, say 18 or 21 or wherever you want to set the bar, my outrage is high and uniform.

And that may explain why it's looked at now in a way it may not have been in past times and why she feels in a way now she wouldn't have then.

I've never studied these issues, but I find it unlikely that it was ever ok for a 38-year-old man to receive oral sex from his friend's 12-year-old daughter, show her pornography, and then ditch her when she wouldn't sleep with him. I realize there were times when it was legal for men to marry underage women (and it still is legal in some places), but that carried with it obligations as well and it has very little to do with what Hall was convicted of.

Please note that I am not trying to defend the practice of child marriage, just saying that the existence of such a practice should not be used as a defense of Hall, pedophiles, or statutory rapists.

Thanks for the clarification, Jeff. And understand, I know people who take causes too far. I had hoped you'd pick up and comment on the Austin reference, but so it goes.

I had hoped you'd pick up and comment on the Austin reference, but so it goes.

After a search, the guy is very vaguely familiar to me, but even back when I went to shows all the time, he doesn't seem to be my style. Back when he seems to have been big, 1997, I would have been seeing Spoon at Flamingo Cantina or something.

His band, the True Believers, was an Austin legend. His background was in punk, and TB was a three guitar, serious rock and roll band. His later stuff (and by that I mean, post1980's) I can understand not being up your alley.

Unfortunately TB's recorded work didn't nearly live up to what it could do live.

I've said so in the Lounge many a time, but there is a downside to "The Live Music Capital of the World", and that's that every freaking place has it. It's wonderful when you want to go see a show, because there's 50 of them on a Tuesday night. It's not when you just want to have a few beers. When you go out to a small bar with two friends, sit in the side room with one other table of three guys, a hot blonde comes in and sings while everyone alternates between ignoring her and half paying attention and nobody else ever shows up and then you find out it was this chick, you're burned out on "singer-songwriters".

That poor woman, I still feel bad about that show. I kind of felt bad at the time, and I later Google her and find she's got 7 albums, 3 with MCA and 4 with Rykodisc, 4 of those have charted with peaks between 29 and 64. And she played in front of six people who didn't really want her there while the sound guy murdered her setup.

Yeah, that style, what I call neo-classic rock, just not my bag. I don't know why. I'll rock the #### out of actual classic rock without much prodding. Foghat, a little old AC/DC or Sabbath, Skynyrd, fantastic. Give me a band that's doing that sound now (or then, 10 years ago) and I'm disinterested.

And she played in front of six people who didn't really want her there while the sound guy murdered her setup.

Hilarious. To cross threads, I persuaded a group of friends to see this band somewhere I forget down on 6th St. I'd heard they were absolutely smoking live. They were going to be the next Replacements, or maybe the Replacements were going to be the next them. I was looking to impress a girl that was approximately my age, and we were both over 21, and so lobbied strenuously to see this band and not another that was suggested. My POV prevailed.

We were 8 of the 12 people there. The band was so pissed that they did one of the shirtiest shows I've ever seen. That's how I came to be mocked by some friends even more when Soul Asylum hit it big several years later.

I did get the girl, though, for a short while. I miss the Liberty Lunch, where I saw the True Believers, Meat Puppets, Timbuk 3, and many others. Good times.

Foghat, a little old AC/DC or Sabbath, Skynyrd, fantastic. Give me a band that's doing that sound now (or then, 10 years ago) and I'm disinterested.

Not a Drive-by Truckers fan? No wonder we disagree.

308 - yes, that is a very real corner of my wife's family, certainly not the whole family

Yeah, at one point the mic on her guitar kept screwing up, cutting in and out, and after about 90 seconds of this she just stopped. There's like 5 minutes of rustling in the "sound booth" which was laughable even in the context of random restaurants with live music, and this totally stoner voice calls out "Okay, I like...think I have it fixed." There's a pause, and then "Sorry about your song, man." Our entire table burst out into laughter while Ms. Willis looked to us for sympathy and strength not to axe murder that dude.

We were 8 of the 12 people there. The band was so pissed that they did one of the shirtiest shows I've ever seen. That's how I came to be mocked by some friends even more when Soul Asylum hit it big several years later.

Austin's output on the breakouts dipped a little for a while right as I got to town in '96. SA obviously not from here, but you'd hear all these stories about what it was like to hear X or Y before they broke out, and looking around town I didn't get that vibe from many. Fastball got huge nationally for two albums, but meh. Spoon was always good, but I was surprised a bit. American Analog Set, they were never going to be big name even if they're excellent. Explosions in the Sky has, now, years later. I was virtually unaware of And You Will Know Us at the time.

Then you had the years of Grupo Fantasma, and that one band that made it huge whose name inexplicably escapes me, the three dudes. And now all I hear about are Ghostland Observatory and Black Joe Lewis, neither of whom do much at all for me, and I haven't been to a show in 6 months and less than 5 (excepting SXSW dayshows which I binge on every year except this one) in 2 years.

- the couple of other women here ain't a gonna touch this with a 10 foot pole

Good, because I would hope they ask before they start using my junk to touch stuff.

that one band that made it huge whose name inexplicably escapes me, the three dudes

ZZ Top? The Three Amigos? Spoon never did it for me, despite Shredder's advocacy.

I think he means Rush.

308 - yes, that is a very real corner of my wife's family, certainly not the whole family

Okay, but unless there is at least one trailer park involved, I reserve the right to withhold judgment.

- so i am offensive just not nearly as offensive?


Awwww, you know I love you.

Just don't tell your husband. He might not understand, and at my age, I'm a bit fragile.

Former major league outfielder Mel Hall was sentenced to 45 years in prison Wednesday after being convicted of raping a 12-year-old girl he coached on an elite basketball team. Hall was convicted on three counts of aggravated sexual assault and two counts of indecency with a child. Among his accusers during sentencing Wednesday were others who said he carried on inappropriate relationships with them.

. . .


The prosecution's final witness during the punishment phase testified that she was 14 when Hall touched her inappropriately and told her he wanted to have sex with her. Late Tuesday, two women testified Hall sexually assaulted them when they were underage.

On Wednesday, a woman testified that Hall was her softball coach when, during an end-of-season pool party, he made lewd noises and grabbed her around the waist.

"He just grabbed me how I thought was inappropriate," said the woman, now 19. She said Hall also would watch her take batting practice and make crude comments and tell her he wanted to have sex with her.

....

The two women who testified Tuesday told similar stories of how he won their parents' trust and then charmed the young girls.

One said she was 15 and Hall was in his first season with the New York Yankees when the abuse began in 1989. The other testified that she was a 14-year-old basketball teammate of the 12-year-old victim when she was raped in 1999. Hall has been charged in that case.

that one band that made it huge whose name inexplicably escapes me, the three dudes

Wham! had two members.

I think Hall may learn a bit more about inappropriate touching in prison.

Jeff K. Posted: June 17, 2009 at 09:15 PM (#3223004)

- the couple of other women here ain't a gonna touch this with a 10 foot pole

Good, because I would hope they ask before they start using my junk to touch stuff.

- grinning

gives a WHOLE new meaning to pole dancing...

Fastball was from Austin.

I thought Ace of Base had two chicks in it. You maybe thinking of 3rd Bass.

As I understand it, prison is a harsh, harsh place for sexual predators. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

Srul Itza Posted: June 17, 2009 at 09:49 PM (#3223057)

- so i am offensive just not nearly as offensive?


Awwww, you know I love you.

Just don't tell your husband. He might not understand, and at my age, I'm a bit fragile.

- laughing
dontchu worry.
he knows i luuuuvvv u for your brainzzzz

he knows i luuuuvvv u for your brainzzzz

The last person who said that to me turned out to be a zombie, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

flournoy Posted: June 17, 2009 at 11:01 PM (#3223097)

As I understand it, prison is a harsh, harsh place for sexual predators.

- correctamundo
guys who get sent inside for raping 12 year olds - well, they don't do real too good you know what i'm saying

mel is somewhat famous so they will probably isolate him


Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

- yep

Back in the old days they didn't send guys who diddled under age kids to jail. Take for instance Errol Flynn who raped a 15 year old relative of mine and got away with it. His nickname for her was JB and SQQ which stood for jail bait and San Quentin Quail.

Srul Itza Posted: June 17, 2009 at 11:18 PM (#3223111)

he knows i luuuuvvv u for your brainzzzz

The last person who said that to me turned out to be a zombie, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

- grinning
well, watching my baseball team be putrid beyond belief just might could be turning me into a zombie because that is kind of how i feel when i watch ivan effing rodriguez make TWO bad throws and they BOTH lead to runs

McCoy Posted: June 17, 2009 at 11:23 PM (#3223116)

Back in the old days they didn't said guys who diddled under age kids to jail. Take for instance Errol Flynn who raped a 15 year old relative of mine and got away with it.

- amusement
RICH and famous (white) men got away with stuff like that. of course, back then they figured that any post pubertal female of any age deserved any sexual activity that happened to her because she HAD to be asking for it especially from someone rich and famous and she should have shame for getting raped

like harvey said, rapists (guys like mel) in poor communities ended up getting kicked by a horse or having an accident or something

Fastball was from Austin.

I said Fastball. First, actually. :)

Do you got BBD all on your bedroom wall?

I was trying to think of Los Lonely Boys, by the way.

So a big middle finger foam hand that says \"#### you" instead "#1" to scotto, Kurt, Monty, and Dr. Love.

"male humans will put their penises in dead rotting bodies, farm animals, infants, fencepost holes"

Well, ####, I'm 0-for-4. When oh when will I become a real man?

"Take for instance Errol Flynn who raped a 15 year old relative of mine and got away with it."

Not to be insensitive here, but I had absolutely no idea that Errol Flynn was into females.

"You maybe thinking of 3rd Bass."

Prime Minister Pete Nice has a memorabilia store in Cooperstown, as well as a half-share in a Boston sports bar with one of the Dropkick Murphys. He wrote a baseball book, too, I think, though I've never read it. I probably should.

"Prime Minister Pete Nice"

And now that I look, I see that he not only was a successful rapper, but also went to college on a basketball scholarship (to Columbia, but still... wow).

His band, the True Believers, was an Austin legend. His background was in punk

The Nuns, who had descended to mediocrity, more or less, by the time their LP came out circa '80. From there, I think, he wound up in what may've been the first punk-country band (depending on whether the Long Ryders were up & running by then, I guess ... I'm too lazy to find out at the moment, & my stomach is hurting besides), Rank & File.

Also, he's Sheila E's uncle, oddly enough.

In any event, I've got at least a couple of his post-TBs CDs that are pretty good, if memory serves. A couple of great songs -- Castanets & Last to Know -- come to mind.

And now that I look, I see that he not only was a successful rapper, but also went to college on a basketball scholarship (to Columbia, but still... wow).

That can't be right ... Ivy League doesn't have athletic scholarships. Or it's a different Columbia.