How dumb is it that Ramirez "retired" _before_ serving his 50 game suspension?

Act in haste repent in leisure. I think his retirement was the act of someone who either doesn't have good advisors around him or doesn't listen.

I like Manny but he obviously blundered.

It was pointed out in the last Manny thread that players under suspension are still subject to testing and thus Ramirez may have retired to avoid flunking yet another test. Still doesn't make that much sense to me though, since he presumably tested positive in spring training because he didn't time his off-season cycles right and should have been 'clean' given the passage of additional time. So yeah, I'll go with bad advice or bad listening.

How dumb is it that Ramirez "retired" _before_ serving his 50 game suspension?

100 game suspension. Still dumb though.

That is a fair amount of baggage for a guy of uncertain current ability. Whereas Giambi has been on the Rockies' roster the past 3 seasons, and his "grizzled vet" and informal hitting coach reputation has been a big part of that.

He was arrested last September and charged with domestic battery.

I didn't remember that. Quite the year for Manny.

I assume Manny retired because he decided he didn't want to go through all that hassle and thought he was ready to walk away.

Then Manny discovered that not having served his suspension meant that he couldn't even play winter ball. Judging from press reports, this seems to have been a genuine surprise to him and this is where advisers are more likely to have screwed up.

I'm not convinced that he's declared himself eligible for any reason other than a desire to play in the Dominican but it's also possible that he's just changed his mind about walking away -- as it seems about 1 out of every 4 guys who retires does.

he presumably tested positive in spring training because he didn't time his off-season cycles right and should have been 'clean' given the passage of additional time

It's possible that he didn't want to run the risk of another positive test -- offseason cycles or no, if you tested positive in March there's got to be a decent chance you'll test positive in May. (I would have thought there might be a rule about a period of time before the first test of the suspension -- it does seem kind of unfair if they can knock on the door the first day possible in hopes of the guy testing positive again even if he's been clean since (a) before the first test; (b) the first test; (c) the day the results of the first test were announced.

It's possible that he didn't want to run the risk of another positive test -- offseason cycles or no, if you tested positive in March there's got to be a decent chance you'll test positive in May. (I would have thought there might be a rule about a period of time before the first test of the suspension -- it does seem kind of unfair if they can knock on the door the first day possible in hopes of the guy testing positive again even if he's been clean since (a) before the first test; (b) the first test; (c) the day the results of the first test were announced.

See the Mike Morse situation.

I wonder if a creative legal argument can be made that Ramirez in effect already served his suspension.

Wow, I totally forgot Morse was suspended for roids. That was back when he was an anonymous AAAA player. Any suspicions his recent career breakout isn't entirely clean?

I wonder if a creative legal argument can be made that Ramirez in effect already served his suspension.

I think it would be hard in his case. OTOH, I think you can make a pretty good argument if player gets nailed between the end of the regular season/start of next season, then gets cut loose before the season starts, that his time off a roster (but still interested in playing) should count as his suspension. Otherwise, for a marginal type player, the 50-game ban could serve as a de facto lifetime one.

I wonder whether or not if the Rays had simply just designated him for assignment would he still have to serve the suspension?

#12 If the Rays had DFAd him they'd have had to pay for the balance of the contract. But if Ramirez didn't retire -- was simply without a job -- then he'd have been fine as far as his suspension went.

As noted above, it was a serious mistake to formally retire if he had any intention of attempting to come back. But of a nature that wasn't obvious to most of us until he did announce that he'd try and land another MLB job. I just thought he announced his retirement because he was done -- and wanted to be able to spend more time with that baby he was trying to have.

I believe MLB has a rule that says you can only be punished for drug use once. Meaning if you test positive for steroids and then they test you a month later and you test positive again if you can prove it was because of stuff you did before the first test they can't punish you. I know there was a link in one of the previous threads that had the 2007-2011 drug policy and I remember language to that effect.

Incidentally the argument in the article is familiar to any Oriole fan of the late 90s. Signing for talent hasn't worked out, let's try signing character players.

#12 If the Rays had DFAd him they'd have had to pay for the balance of the contract. But if Ramirez didn't retire -- was simply without a job -- then he'd have been fine as far as his suspension went.

I can't find any description of MLB's suspension rules online, but I thought that it was the opposite: suspended players who are released by their team only serve their suspension while they're on a team's roster. I seem to recall people complaining that marginal players who were released after a failed drug test would essentially be banned from baseball because no team would want to sign them if they had to spend first couple months of the season serving their suspension.

I don't know, to me it sounds like a great way to squirrel away a player. Marginal fringy guys are the often times hard to get through waivers and move around on your rosters. Sign a PED player who has to serve a 50 game suspension and you got yourself a major league player sitting on ice while you start the season. After 50 games you'll have a much better idea of which players shouldn't be on the team, which players should be sent down, and some of your players will be dealing with injuries. Poof, here comes a PED guy that didn't cost you a cent over the first 50 games.

See the Mike Morse situation.

For some reason I don't remember this story, but it's pretty crazy. I would imagine he took something like deca, which supposedly can stay in your system for up to 18 months. But they should be able to measure the metabolites and as long as they're trending downward, you shouldn't be considered "positive". At least that's what I was told when I used to get tested.

I assume Manny retired because he decided he didn't want to go through all that hassle and thought he was ready to walk away.

This is my read too. I think he got busted and did a "I'll show these guys, screw them" and retired. Then he sat around the house for a few months, got the retirement blues, and now wants to come back. Does he even really have advisors? I get the impression he does what he wants to do in the moment and then deals with the fallout later.

I don't see what he had to gain by retiring rather than letting the process play out. I see the cost of that decision.

If he had any inkling at all of coming back, he chose the wrong route.

As Barry Fitzgerald said after seeing the broken bed in The Quiet Man, "Impetuous!"

X-Roid User Posted: February 06, 2012 at 10:29 AM (#4054499)

See the Mike Morse situation.


For some reason I don't remember this story, but it's pretty crazy. I would imagine he took something like deca, which supposedly can stay in your system for up to 18 months.

- actually, i DO remember it and that is what he did. and i remember it because i thought and still think that if you can use roids to heal badly torn muscles it sounds like it should be something that team doctors should DO.
- i remember that morse had to apologise a million times and go on this confession binge where he had to say how terrible a mistake he made and what a bad thing he did. like he had years to let the muscle heal on its onw and he could just pick up his career where he left off.

But they should be able to measure the metabolites and as long as they're trending downward, you shouldn't be considered "positive".

- they didn't care

fortunately, morse didn't make the bad mistake of hitting too many home runs so nobody cared any more than they did about alex sanchez