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Baseball Primer Newsblog— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand
Saturday, September 29, 2007
Costen shockley...that’s what the Mets are going through, costen shockley.
“I feel sorry for them; they’ve been in first place the whole year,” Tony Gonzalez, a starting outfielder on the ‘64 Phils, said yesterday from his home in Miami. “And there’s a chance they won’t even get the wild card.”
Gonzalez paused.
“I was through it in ‘64 and wouldn’t want it to happen to anybody else,” he said. “No matter what you do, you keep falling down. The Mets scored nine runs the other day and still lost. Their bullpen was the best in the league earlier in the year, and now they can’t get anybody out. The same funny things happened to us in ‘64.
“[Johnny] Callison hit three homers in a game, and we still lost. Chico Ruiz and Willie Davis stole home to beat us. In another game, Felipe Alou strikes out and reaches first on a passed ball with two outs, and then Hank Aaron hits a homer into the upper deck and beats us. I think ‘64 was worse than what’s happening with the Mets because of the way we lost.”
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1. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: September 29, 2007 at 01:10 PM (#2549700)Ruiz and Davis did have steals of home
Callison did have a 3HR game that they lost
but the Aaron HR never happened, at least, not down the stretch in 64
still, that's pretty good, the way old-time ballplayers often mangle memories
But
I don't get how they can be calling this collapse worse then the Phillies. Just mathematically. Isn't 6.5 in 11 games worse than 7.5 in 17 games? Can someone explain how it's worse? I don't get it.
I don't get how they can be calling this collapse worse then the Phillies. Just mathematically. Isn't 6.5 in 11 games worse than 7.5 in 17 games? Can someone explain how it's worse? I don't get it.
According to Nate Silver's article over on BP, the Phillies faced a very difficult schedule in their last 12 games while the Cardinals schedule was easy, and that made the effective lead smaller than it appeared. IIRC, the 1964 Phillies isn't even in the top 3 on his list.
It's kind of like "was Vicksburg worse for the South than Gettysburg?"
At the risk of a 200-post Civil War History thread :)
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=6764
Part of this is because the Mets will have fallen out of not one but two playoff berths (if!) ... right?
By the same token, the '64 Phillies had a 6.5 game lead with eleven games to play but only needed seven of those games to fall out of first.
I don't suppose an 8-0 lead after three innings today is reviving Met-fan hopes any ...?
****
There is an excellent chance the Mets go 2-0 and the Phillies go 1-1, although I can see why Mets fans wouldn't feel that way.
Um, no. Check out the chatter.
There is an excellent chance the Mets go 2-0 and the Phillies go 1-1, although I can see why Mets fans wouldn't feel that way.
Ha. This is just not going to happen. You haven't been following what's been happening the way we have. It's just not gonna happen.
Keep in mind that a Yankees-Red Sox rivalry didn't really take off until after World War II, with the Bosox hiring Joe McCarthy and becoming competitive. Before then, the Yankees' big rivalries were with the Philadelphia A's in their glory days, and to a lesser extent the Tigers and even the Senators. Yes, the Red Sox improved due to Yawkey's cash, but until the mid-forties they weren't really deemed a threat. The revisionist Red Sox histories would have you believe that this was always the big rivalry; not the case.
Good point. This is why I support the unbalanced schedule as well in spite of its disadvantages.
Ha. This is just not going to happen. You haven't been following what's been happening the way we have. It's just not gonna happen
The Phillies used their ace last night. Any of their other pitchers can give up enough runs for them to lose. The Mets have a big lead today.
The Phillies will score as many runs as they need to to win the next two days. It's not like Washington has Walter Johnson ready to take the ball for them. The division is theirs.
Ever been to a game at the Vets when the Mets are in town?
No, but there is a difference between a rivalry and "Locals hating the New York team." If the Phillies hold on, Mets fans will have a real reason to hate back. Rivalries come largely from geography and hard-fought competition for championships. The two together breed mutual animosity. Mets/Phillies now has both.
Phillies have to win an Adam Eaton start or it's tied after 161.
You're not dead yet.
Best Regards
John
Maine was brilliant. He was beyond brilliant, taking the no-hitter into the top of the 8th, and only losing it on a squibber down the third base line. It was a thrilling thing to hear on WFAN, believe me.
It has nothing to do with that the Phillies are going to do, however.
I think the Phillies lose today but for all of Jamie Moyer's struggles he has had some decent starting assignments. In his last 12 starts he has:
IP ER OPP7.0 0 PIT
6.0 1 FLA
6.1 3 ATL
6.0 2 NYM
7.0 2 NYM
6.0 1 StL
So six pretty good outings over 12 starts where he has posted a 5.40 ERA. I feel he pitches well tomorrow. Today though, I think the days ends with the NL East in a tie. Admit it Sam ... you didn't see today's result coming now did you?
That's why you play the games.
Best Regards
John
I always assumed that Maine would pitch a no-hitter for 7 and a third, but I confess that the 7.2 surprised me. That extra 0.3 really showed me something.
Honestly? The only thing I am truly convinced of is that the Phillies are going to win the next two games. They have played magnificently, they are at home, they are facing a much inferior opponent, and the Nats' starters just cannot hold them. As for the Mets' results, I certainly didn't see Maine's performance coming, but I am not at all shocked that they won. I hadn't entirely given up hope that at some point, the quality of the team could yet emerge.
Edit: 2-0 and Joe Table is in the game.
Like I said, I expect the East to be tied after 161.
Best Regards
John
The only thing that I'm convinced of this I have no idea what's going to happen.
That's why they play 162 games. A lot has happened and a lot will happen. The Mets needed a good game today and got a great one. The Phillies are playing a game today that will decide if they control their fate tomorrow.
I know, I know. Hey, can ya blame me? As I said, I've been through this myself and nothing helps and I hate to see anyone* or anything suffer (and that includes Mets fans). But as a wise Jedi master who looked like the love-child of Bugs Bunny and E.T. once said: "Always in motion the future is."
Best Regards
John
*See amendment 1A "The David Samson Exemption" and amendment 2A "The Stupid Cat" Exemption in the subsection entitled: "Small Things That Really Piss me Off"
EDIT: Nevermind. Didn't even finish the post before Rollins swung at the first pitch for a GIDP. Egads.
Now I feel old. Now get the hell off my lawn!
Best Regards
John
Hey, I resemble that remark! Especially since I'm the same age as you, John.
Sam's about to get into a tux and go to a charity event which pretty much every gay person in Louisville (well, every one with a certain amount of money, anyway) will be attending. Raising money for good causes will remind me what's really important, and that will probably make me feel better. And even if it doesn't, I probably need that reminder these days anyway. Baseball's fun, but it isn't the real deal, now is it? ;-)
Yeah, some day I'll actually believe it, Sam. :-D
Have fun tonight!
Best Regards
John
Best Regards
John
Best Regards
John
Told ya. They control their own destiny. Win tomorrow and if necessary a playoff game. They no longer need another team to "help them out."
Romero, Gordon, and Myers all pitched as well.
Not looking good for the Phils right now. They're going to have to score a lot of runs on Sunday.
Best Regards
John
Remind me to listen to you more often, John. :-)
Glad I could help. I've seen too much crazy stuff in this game to take anything for granted. I've seen the unexpected and impossible occur all too often.
Momentum is one game.
Best Regards
John
So six pretty good outings over 12 starts where he has posted a 5.40 ERA.
Yea, but did you notice only 2 of his last 8 are any good? His last 8 GS: 44 IP, 59 H, 19 W, 32 K, 6.75 ERA
Moyer faces Bergman who is average and thus far better than him. GLavine's had two straight bad starts. Last time he did that he responded by holding Oakland to 1 run in 8 innings. And the Phillie 'pen is worn out and worn out badly. It ain't just today, Manuel's pulled off hte hot streak by running his main relievers into the ground.
It's like people think that becaseu Phillies's ben hot they'll never cool off.
Remember: under Charlie Manuel the Phillies have excelled at exactly just one thing: played just well enough to miss the playoffs.
Tom Glavine needs to be huge tomorrow. Willis isn't gonna roll over.
Actually, Willis has spent most of the year getting rolled.
They're reverse-jinxing rather than overreacting.
Agreed. They asked me on the Mike Gill Show last Wednesday whether Manuel should be canned.
I said yes. Heck, I've been saying yes every time they've asked that question over the last 18 months. If the Phillies make the playoffs--he should still be fired. If they get there it will be in spite of him, not because of him.
Best Regards
John
Should be fun.
I wrote in THT about my recent conversion to Phillie-dom since the Expos were no more and it's kind of funny how I'm feeling right now (giving comfort and aid to the enemy? What am I thinking?). I'm enjoying the experience of watching a rooting interest slug it out to the final day for the first time in 14 years that I'm focusing on enjoying the ride and the anxiety ... the whole works.
Sure, I'll be bummed tomorrow if the Phillies lose out but it will have been worth it just to feel that nervous energy, the uncertainty, the anticipation--the whole deal again. As a 49er/Maple Leafs/Blue Jays fan it's been quite some time since I've been able to do this and I'll enjoy it until the bitter end.
Game 162 and I'm still cheering, biting my nails and drinking too much beer? I'll take that gratefully.
Go Phillies!
Best Regards
John
I resemble that remark!
Sucks to be
youus eh? Yup, been rooting for the Leafs since the late 1960's and the 49ers since the early 1970's. The Expos and Jays from their inception and the Phillies I'm guessing for a little over a year (although it never dawned on me until the Phillies comeback against Wagner at the end of August).Best Regards
John
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