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Monday, April 21, 2014

Mets add Bobby Abreu to roster, send down Andrew Brown

And Kyle Farnsworth is the new closer.  Richard Hidalgo is available…

The Mets have officially brought up Bobby Abreu to their major league roster, optioning down outfielder Andrew Brown as a corresponding move.

Abreu will serve as as a left-handed hitter off the bench…

Abreu hit .395 in 15 games at Triple-A in Las Vegas.

“He’s played very well at Vegas,” [GM Sandy] Alderson said. “And he’s a great hitting role model for our players. He’s a professional hitter and I think our guys can learn something from him.”

The District Attorney Posted: April 21, 2014 at 03:08 PM | 59 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: andrew brown, bobby abreu, mets, transactions

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   1. attaboy Posted: April 21, 2014 at 03:22 PM (#4690451)
I am going to be sick :(
   2. attaboy Posted: April 21, 2014 at 03:27 PM (#4690454)
Tejeda is hitting under .200 and an OBP under .300 but we'll deal with the OF and leave SS alone for the year. Although, I hadn't noticed until now, Granderson is beyond compare (127/222/238/460), maybe they do need Abreu! This is one exciting club!
   3. RJ in TO Posted: April 21, 2014 at 03:37 PM (#4690461)
Abreu hit .395 in 15 games at Triple-A in Las Vegas.


Everyone hits 0.395 at Las Vegas.
   4. They paved Misirlou, put up a parking lot Posted: April 21, 2014 at 03:48 PM (#4690470)
Everyone hits 0.395 at Las Vegas.


You would think. But only one player with a non-trivial number of PAs is within 70 points of Abreu.
   5. Steve Parris, Je t'aime Posted: April 21, 2014 at 03:51 PM (#4690473)
Only 63 hits away from 2,500. Hope he gets it.
   6. Dog on the sidewalk Posted: April 21, 2014 at 03:53 PM (#4690476)
wRC+ of 185 for Abreu, so that's good. Of course, it's only 45 PAs, and he's 40, can't play defense, and didn't play at all last year. So, uh, yeah.
   7. JE (Jason Epstein) Posted: April 21, 2014 at 03:56 PM (#4690478)
“And he’s a great hitting role model for our players. He’s a professional hitter and I think our guys can learn something from him.”

So make him an assistant hitting coach.
   8. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: April 21, 2014 at 03:59 PM (#4690480)
Although, I hadn't noticed until now, Granderson is beyond compare (127/222/238/460), maybe they do need Abreu! This is one exciting club!


I loved Curtis as a Yankee, he's a good player and a good egg overall, but I was absolutely stunned that the Mets made him the offer they did. Coming off a serious hand injury with some concerns about declining power and contact ability, I was actually thinking Granderson might accept the Yankees qualifying offer for 2014. Surely nobody would match that annual value over multiple years given the number of questions and concerns! Man, was I off base.
   9. Arbitol Dijaler Posted: April 21, 2014 at 04:03 PM (#4690481)
Granderson's early-season performance would be consistent with (a) a guy who barely played last year who will take some time to get things going; and (b) a guy who can no longer play baseball. There's also random fluctuwhatevers (though he looks terrible). We shall see.
   10. Pat Rapper's Delight Posted: April 21, 2014 at 04:05 PM (#4690482)
So make him an assistant hitting coach.

I wish the Nats would hire Abreu to serve as Harper's outfield coach.
   11. zonk Posted: April 21, 2014 at 04:05 PM (#4690483)
Only 63 hits away from 2,500. Hope he gets it.


Also just 1 SB away from 400, 13 HRs away from 300, 1 3B away from 60, 59 runs away from 1500, 51 RBI away from 1400, and 35 2Bs away from 600.... His career OBP is also just .004 under .400 and career AVG is .292.

In a perfect world, despite doing it as a Met -- I'd love to see get too all of those right on the nose and enhance his HoF ballot slate.... Probably the just hits, SBs, and 3Bs are within reach though.
   12. attaboy Posted: April 21, 2014 at 04:06 PM (#4690484)
I knew it was a bad signing but the Mets options were/are so poor, even a bad grandy had to be better than what we had last year (I may be wrong)!
   13. AJMcCringleberry Posted: April 21, 2014 at 04:14 PM (#4690489)
As Tejada batted in key spot late in the game the other night I was wishing they had a lefty on the bench. Though I have no idea why they didn't pinch hit with a righty anyway.
   14. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: April 21, 2014 at 04:25 PM (#4690496)
Although, I hadn't noticed until now, Granderson is beyond compare (127/222/238/460)


BJ Upton played baseball just last year. So it's not beyond compare at all.
   15. attaboy Posted: April 21, 2014 at 04:33 PM (#4690501)
BJ Upton played baseball just last year. So it's not beyond compare at all.

Upton: 208/269/306/575
Grandy: 127/222/238/460
Dunn: 159/292/277/569

Its early, I am sure Grandy will do better and Dunn was in a hitter's park and Grandy is in a pitchers park...
   16. Ray (RDP) Posted: April 21, 2014 at 04:49 PM (#4690513)
His last 700 PA from 2011-2012 tell us that he's done, and his 0 PA last year (not even in the minors, if I'm reading b-r right). Did he play at all last year?

Can we finally proclaim Sandy Alderson a flop as a Met, or do people still hold out hope?
   17. zonk Posted: April 21, 2014 at 04:51 PM (#4690515)
I'm really hoping the Granderson thread was eaten by Burstnet...

My recollection is that I thought the deal was a year too long and maybe 5-6-7 million too much, but I didn't think it was an awful deal. I was mildly interested in the Cubs being in on him to hold down CF for a few years if he could be had for around 3/40.

Still early, I guess....
   18. 6 - 4 - 3 Posted: April 21, 2014 at 04:56 PM (#4690521)
If Raul Ibanez can be productive in his early 40s, I don't see why Abreu can't. And it's not like he's taking playing time away from a real prospect. Would love to see him get a shot at reaching as many of those career milestones #11 mentioned as possible.
   19. Ray (RDP) Posted: April 21, 2014 at 04:57 PM (#4690522)
There's no way Granderson is this bad. That said, he's a 33 year old player who has declined three straight years and whose batting average has cratered. But the walks and power can save him.

Tejada, on the other hand, really is this bad. Even if he rebounds to 2011/2012 levels he's a .280 hitter with no walks and power. And that's the _best_ that can be hoped for from him.
   20. Conor Posted: April 21, 2014 at 05:04 PM (#4690530)
I wouldnt't call Sandy a flop yet, but I would have liked to see him put more effort into improving the big league team the last few years. It's also hard to say how much of this is financial constraints (payroll went down again this year), but going into the off-season he basically said they had to find a new SS, and they didn't do that. He spends time talking about how they need payroll flexibility, and all it does is allow them to sign Granderson. That being said, they could have a rotation with Harvey/Wheeler/Syndergard/Niese/Montero or Gee, which could solve a lot of problems. Or not.
   21. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: April 21, 2014 at 05:21 PM (#4690540)
There's no way Granderson is this bad. That said, he's a 33 year old player who has declined three straight years and whose batting average has cratered. But the walks and power can save him.


We call this the "Uggla Stage" of rationalization. Later, you may find yourself entering into the "BJ Upton Stage" of bartering about defensive value and how bad the internal options would be anyway.
   22. formerly dp Posted: April 21, 2014 at 05:47 PM (#4690561)
Tejada, on the other hand, really is this bad. Even if he rebounds to 2011/2012 levels he's a .280 hitter with no walks and power. And that's the _best_ that can be hoped for from him.

I posted this in the Davis thread,, it's worth repeating here-- I don't think Tejada has too much more rope left. Not sure how Flores has looked in the field, but with the other options being Quintanilla and Tejada, his potential deficiencies start to get look-pastable quickly.
And because I know everyone's hot for an update, Flores is back on track at AAA-- .375/.484/.667 in his last 6 games, after a slow start, playing pretty much exclusively at SS.

The Braves announcers made a point of very kindly saying that Granderson has a rep as a particularly streaky hitter-- that he's the type of guy who can go 0-for a series, and then hit .500 in the next one. So as much as I'm pessimistically concerned about him, the team doesn't have double digits in wins or losses yet. This could very well be a twenty game slump while he adjusts to a new league. Or Jason Bay, Part II.
   23. formerly dp Posted: April 21, 2014 at 05:56 PM (#4690574)
That being said, they could have a rotation with Harvey/Wheeler/Syndergard/Niese/Montero or Gee, which could solve a lot of problems. Or not.
The bullpen problems are kind of interesting here, in that one or two of their abundant starters were supposed to be able to hack it in the pen. So for that hasn't come to pass. In spring training, there was talk of easing Montero into the majors via the bullpen, and I think we're not far from that moment. If Harvey comes back to start of 2015, they're going to have Harvey, Wheeler, Colon, Niese, Gee, Mejia, Montero and Syndergaard for 5 spots.
   24. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: April 21, 2014 at 06:08 PM (#4690581)
I posted this in the Davis thread,, it's worth repeating here-- I don't think Tejada has too much more rope left.


The team was publicly abusing him in the press all spring training. Apparently for years no scout has thought Flores' long-term future was at SS, he was basically a 2b/3b in 2012/2013, and yet there he is in LV- playing SS this year (and it's not like Munro or Lutz are prospects, though Lutz is a perfectly cromulent AAAAer)

Is Flores is playing SS in Vegas solely because Tejada/Mets' SS spot is such a train wreck, or do they honestly think now he possibly can play SS? Come on, he didn't play SS for 2 years, this just seems like shortsighted desperation, plus trying to make a prospect do something you don't think he can seems like a set up for failure.

I mean how hard can it be to just find someone who could OPS .600 and not embarrass himself defensively?

Tejada, on the other hand, really is this bad. Even if he rebounds to 2011/2012

Well no, the 2011/12 version was a 2 WAR player, you could easily live with that if the alternative is too much money for too many years to S. Drew- or screwing around with a 22 year old prospect whose need to find a permanent position may be more important than the perceived need to send a message to the incumbent SS. 2013/14 Tejada OTOH is just horrific (actually he's been terrible since about August 2012)
   25. Arbitol Dijaler Posted: April 21, 2014 at 06:13 PM (#4690584)
In the interest of a watchable major league product, shouldn't a Cory Mazzoni or Jacob DeGrom be a bullpen option by now? I can see not wanting to do that with a top prospect who might be derailed by that change, but the second tier guys--aren't these the guys who should be thought of as possible relievers regardless of need?
   26. formerly dp Posted: April 21, 2014 at 06:23 PM (#4690590)
Is Flores is playing SS in Vegas solely because Tejada/Mets' SS spot is such a train wreck, or do they honestly think now he possibly can play SS? Come on, he didn't play SS for 2 years, this just seems like shortsighted desperation, plus trying to make a prospect do something you don't think he can seems like a set up for failure.
I take your point, and I don't know how much stock you put in the "best shape of his life" stuff, but Flores apparently spent the winter working on his mobility specifically so that he could handle the more demanding defensive position. I've followed Flores pretty closely as he's been coming up through the minors; I know no one ever thought much of his chances for sticking at SS (from the time he was 17). But that's his best path forward with the club at this point (he very likely doesn't have the bat for 1B, he's blocked at 2B and 3B), and if they decide he can hack it there after two months of training, it doesn't hurt to try it out.

We went over a lot of this during ST, but I was firmly in the camp of "Murphy will suffer a career-ending injury out there before he becomes a passable 2B" camp. And I was wrong about that one. This decision seems to be in the same zip code (though the question of if you want both your SS and 2B to be sub-par defensively)-- with Murph they had to try him at 2B, or deal him when his value was low. They made the right call there, and maybe they are here as well.
   27. BDC Posted: April 21, 2014 at 07:04 PM (#4690614)
Dang, I was hoping Abreu would get an AB against Francoeur.
   28. Arbitol Dijaler Posted: April 21, 2014 at 08:23 PM (#4690670)
Is Francoeur really trying to pitch or was that a one time thing?
   29. Walt Davis Posted: April 21, 2014 at 08:40 PM (#4690681)
If Raul Ibanez can be productive in his early 40s, I don't see why Abreu can't.

Ya never know but Ibanez has stayed "productive" by hitting for a lot of power. And his "productivity" is just a 107 OPS+ and -.6 WAR over the last 4 years (and not a good start this year). If anything, Abreu saw a power drop in his 30s and it was completely gone in 2011-12. A 350 OBP is always nice but with no power, no baserunning and no defensive value ...

In short, even the Cubs have avoided moves that were this desperate!

I mean how hard can it be to just find someone who could OPS .600 and not embarrass himself defensively?

Well ... kinda amazing but ...

2013, min 300 PA, min 60 games at SS, min Rfield of -5 ... only 20 players topped a 600 OPS. Only 25 players even qualified under those criteria. Who the F played SS last year?

There were only 34 players with even 60 games at SS. I'm starting to wonder if there's something wrong with P-I.

Anyway, even if you look at all players with 300+ PA in 2013, you only turn up 260 with an OPS of 600 or better.

So I'm thinking that, at least in today's offensive environment, it actually is fairly hard to find a SS who will OPS at least 600 and field decently. Or it's incredibly easy in that there are lots of them and it doesn't matter which of them you choose because it's all just a coin flip so you might as well stick with Tejada until a genuinely better option comes along.

   30. bobm Posted: April 21, 2014 at 09:09 PM (#4690706)
21 SS started 100 or more games for one team. 26 started more than 81.

2013 SS by team

                                                      
Rk                       Age  Tm Lg   G  GS  CG    Inn
1            MartinPrado  29 ARI NL   1   0   0    1.0
2             JoshWilson  32 ARI NL   2   0   0    3.0
3       WillieBloomquist  35 ARI NL   9   8   8   74.0
4            ChrisOwings  21 ARI NL  13  10   9   93.0
5        CliffPennington  29 ARI NL  51  47  43  429.1
6          DidiGregorius  23 ARI NL 100  97  89  894.2

7       TylerPastornicky  23 ATL NL   1   1   1    8.0
8          ElliotJohnson  29 ATL NL   2   1   0   10.0
9             PaulJanish  30 ATL NL   6   3   1   24.0
10            RamiroPena  27 ATL NL   7   7   4   56.0
11      AndreltonSimmons  23 ATL NL 156 150 146 1352.1

12          AlexiCasilla  28 BAL AL   2   0   0    3.0
13          RyanFlaherty  26 BAL AL   9   3   3   33.0
14             J.J.Hardy  30 BAL AL 159 159 151 1417.0

15          PedroCiriaco  27 BOS AL   8   7   7   68.0
16        XanderBogaerts  20 BOS AL   8   6   5   52.2
17          JoseIglesias  23 BOS AL  29  27  25  240.0
18           StephenDrew  30 BOS AL 124 122 118 1093.1

19            CodyRansom  37 CHC NL   1   1   1    8.0
20          DonnieMurphy  30 CHC NL   3   2   2   22.0
21         StarlinCastro  23 CHC NL 159 159 158 1418.0

22         GordonBeckham  26 CHW AL   2   0   0    6.0
23          MarcusSemien  22 CHW AL   3   3   2   27.1
24           LeuryGarcia  22 CHW AL   3   2   2   21.0
25         AlexeiRamirez  31 CHW AL 158 157 154 1400.2

26          CesarIzturis  33 CIN NL  29  15  12  165.2
27            ZackCozart  27 CIN NL 150 147 133 1308.0

28           JoseRamirez  20 CLE AL   2   0   0    2.0
29            MikeAviles  32 CLE AL  46  35  33  339.2
30       AsdrubalCabrera  27 CLE AL 129 127 115 1099.2

31            DJLeMahieu  24 COL NL   1   0   0    1.0
32           ReidBrignac  27 COL NL   3   2   0   16.0
33          JoshRutledge  24 COL NL  14  13  13  115.1
34       JonathanHerrera  28 COL NL  42  28  25  274.1
35        TroyTulowitzki  28 COL NL 121 119 105 1029.1

36           HernanPerez  22 DET AL   2   0   0    2.2
37         RamonSantiago  33 DET AL  27  19  15  192.2
38          JoseIglesias  23 DET AL  42  40  31  331.2
39         JhonnyPeralta  31 DET AL 106 103 102  935.2

40            JakeElmore  26 HOU AL  20  18  14  160.0
41           RonnyCedeno  30 HOU AL  41  37  34  330.2
42        MarwinGonzalez  24 HOU AL  53  50  49  450.1
43        JonathanVillar  22 HOU AL  58  57  55  499.0

44          PedroCiriaco  27 KCR AL   3   2   2   22.0
45         ElliotJohnson  29 KCR AL   8   4   2   38.0
46        AlcidesEscobar  26 KCR AL 158 156 151 1388.1

47           LuisJimenez  25 LAA AL   1   0   0    3.0
48           ThomasField  26 LAA AL   5   1   1   20.0
49          AndrewRomine  27 LAA AL  17   6   6   86.2
50         BrendanHarris  32 LAA AL  21  17   7  145.0
51            ErickAybar  29 LAA AL 138 138 130 1203.0

52          MichaelYoung  36 LAD NL   1   1   0    7.0
53              LuisCruz  29 LAD NL  15  10   9   99.0
54         JustinSellers  27 LAD NL  22  20  16  177.1
55             DeeGordon  25 LAD NL  27  23  22  206.2
56             NickPunto  35 LAD NL  49  33  26  309.1
57         HanleyRamirez  29 LAD NL  76  75  61  651.0

58          ChrisValaika  27 MIA NL   6   6   6   53.0
59               EdLucas  31 MIA NL   6   3   0   30.0
60             NickGreen  34 MIA NL   8   8   8   79.2
61     AdeinyHechavarria  24 MIA NL 148 145 142 1297.1

62          AlexGonzalez  36 MIL NL   3   2   2   23.0
63    YunieskyBetancourt  31 MIL NL   3   0   0    5.0
64           JeffBianchi  26 MIL NL  20  17  16  163.2
65            JeanSegura  23 MIL NL 144 143 137 1251.0

66          JameyCarroll  39 MIN AL   3   2   1   17.0
67           DougBernier  33 MIN AL  20  12  10  117.0
68        EduardoEscobar  24 MIN AL  38  21  18  216.2
69         PedroFlorimon  26 MIN AL 133 127 102 1099.2

70      JordanyValdespin  25 NYM NL   1   0   0    2.0
71         WilfredoTovar  21 NYM NL   7   5   5   46.1
72          JustinTurner  28 NYM NL  18  13  10  115.1
73           RubenTejada  23 NYM NL  55  55  54  499.0
74       OmarQuintanilla  31 NYM NL  92  89  82  814.0

75          RobinsonCano  30 NYY AL   1   0   0    1.0
76       AlbertoGonzalez  30 NYY AL   5   5   3   42.2
77              LuisCruz  29 NYY AL   5   5   3   41.0
78            DerekJeter  39 NYY AL  13  13  10  109.2
79           BrendanRyan  31 NYY AL  17  17  16  152.0
80           ReidBrignac  27 NYY AL  17  12  11  112.1
81             JaysonNix  30 NYY AL  48  41  35  380.1
82          EduardoNunez  26 NYY AL  75  69  65  608.1

83         JoshDonaldson  27 OAK AL   1   0   0    1.0
84           AndyParrino  27 OAK AL   7   2   1   28.0
85            EricSogard  27 OAK AL  15  12  11  112.2
86           AdamRosales  30 OAK AL  36  33  28  287.0
87             JedLowrie  29 OAK AL 119 115 106 1023.1

88       MichaelMartinez  30 PHI NL   3   2   2   19.0
89          JohnMcDonald  38 PHI NL   6   3   1   32.0
90          FreddyGalvis  23 PHI NL  11   6   6   67.0
91          JimmyRollins  34 PHI NL 153 151 142 1318.1

92           BrandonInge  36 PIT NL   1   0   0    1.0
93          JoshHarrison  25 PIT NL   4   0   0    5.1
94          JohnMcDonald  38 PIT NL  13   8   3   66.0
95           JordyMercer  26 PIT NL  78  63  50  594.0
96           ClintBarmes  34 PIT NL 106  91  70  804.1

97         LoganForsythe  26 SDP NL  11   9   8   79.0
98         AlexiAmarista  24 SDP NL  13   8   6   83.2
99          PedroCiriaco  27 SDP NL  18  16  15  147.2
100          RonnyCedeno  30 SDP NL  35  34  30  297.0
101        EverthCabrera  26 SDP NL  95  95  94  847.2

102         NickFranklin  22 SEA AL   3   2   2   20.2
103       CarlosTriunfel  23 SEA AL  10   8   7   72.0
104         RobertAndino  29 SEA AL  18  11  11  109.1
105           BradMiller  23 SEA AL  68  62  56  561.0
106          BrendanRyan  31 SEA AL  84  79  65  702.0

107           NickNoonan  24 SFG NL   1   0   0    2.0
108            TonyAbreu  28 SFG NL   3   2   1   18.0
109        EhireAdrianza  23 SFG NL   6   4   4   45.0
110         JoaquinArias  28 SFG NL  24  17  10  156.1
111      BrandonCrawford  26 SFG NL 147 139 128 1226.0

112          RyanJackson  25 STL NL   1   1   0    7.0
113       DanielDescalso  26 STL NL  55  48  22  401.2
114            PeteKozma  25 STL NL 139 113 107 1051.0

115           TimBeckham  23 TBR AL   1   0   0    1.0
116        SeanRodriguez  28 TBR AL   7   3   1   28.0
117           BenZobrist  32 TBR AL  21  11   9  115.0
118         YunelEscobar  30 TBR AL 153 149 134 1320.0

119          AdamRosales  30 TEX AL   3   0   0    6.0
120          LeuryGarcia  22 TEX AL   4   2   2   21.0
121      JuricksonProfar  20 TEX AL  18  16  15  147.2
122          ElvisAndrus  24 TEX AL 146 145 138 1288.2

123      EmilioBonifacio  28 TOR AL   1   0   0    4.0
124            RyanGoins  25 TOR AL   2   1   1   10.0
125        MaicerIzturis  32 TOR AL  28  18  11  174.1
126     MunenoriKawasaki  32 TOR AL  60  51  43  470.2
127            JoseReyes  30 TOR AL  92  92  86  793.0

139        DannyEspinosa  26 WSN NL   1   1   1    8.0
140          ZachWalters  23 WSN NL   2   1   1   10.0
141        AnthonyRendon  23 WSN NL   4   2   2   27.2
142           IanDesmond  27 WSN NL 158 158 155 1400.0
   31. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: April 21, 2014 at 09:41 PM (#4690731)
I just want to say that Mejia could potentially be a stud. He has pitched 50 innings including last year.

50 IP, 2.16 era, 52/18 k/bb ratio, 1.24 whip, 4 homers allowed.

If this team is going to be good in the next few years, it's going to be because of their starting pitching.

I do expect Granderson to stay awful.
   32. JE (Jason Epstein) Posted: April 21, 2014 at 10:27 PM (#4690776)
I just want to say that Mejia could potentially be a stud. He has pitched 50 innings including last year.

50 IP, 2.16 era, 52/18 k/bb ratio, 1.24 whip, 4 homers allowed.

If this team is going to be good in the next few years, it's going to be because of their starting pitching.

Sandy deserves kudos for being über-patient with Mejia after Omar and Jerry had attempted to ruin the kid's livelihood.
   33. Ray (RDP) Posted: April 21, 2014 at 10:29 PM (#4690777)
I'd have gone with Davis at 1B and Duda in a corner, supplanting one of the Youngs or even Granderson.
   34. JJ1986 Posted: April 21, 2014 at 10:32 PM (#4690781)
Duda is a horrible outfielder. Not Dan-Murphy-horrible, but bad enough to counter any value he adds with the bat.
   35. Lassus Posted: April 21, 2014 at 10:36 PM (#4690784)
I'd have gone with Davis at 1B and Duda in a corner, supplanting one of the Youngs or even Granderson.

Duda in the outfield is a non-starter. He is AWFUL. All-caps awful.
   36. Howie Menckel Posted: April 21, 2014 at 10:42 PM (#4690791)

Can confirm.

I'm more likely than most to live with a bat in the corner OF, but Duda is a NON-STARTER there.

he sucks at 1B defense within the realm of sucky guys who might hit HRs.
   37. Ray (RDP) Posted: April 21, 2014 at 10:47 PM (#4690800)
Do any of the systems show him to be adequate defensively, or is he horrible across the board?
   38. Lassus Posted: April 21, 2014 at 11:01 PM (#4690808)
I have no idea what the systems show him as, but if it isn't terrible, it's a collective failure of the systems. He's terrible.
   39. billyshears Posted: April 21, 2014 at 11:38 PM (#4690824)
We went over a lot of this during ST, but I was firmly in the camp of "Murphy will suffer a career-ending injury out there before he becomes a passable 2B" camp. And I was wrong about that one. This decision seems to be in the same zip code (though the question of if you want both your SS and 2B to be sub-par defensively)-- with Murph they had to try him at 2B, or deal him when his value was low. They made the right call there, and maybe they are here as well.


I agree that the Flores at SS experiment is comparable to the Murphy at 2b experiment. Flores can't play 2b or 3b for the Mets as the team is currently constructed, and it sure doesn't seem like other teams are falling all over themselves to pry Flores from the Mets, so it makes sense for the Mets to try to extract value from Flores in low probability ways. My hope is that Mejia's emergence allows the Mets to construct a deal for a major bat (don't know who) centered around some combination of Mejia/Gee/Murphy/Flores. Mejia probably has to pitch well for another couple of months before he has that kind of value though.

   40. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: April 22, 2014 at 01:21 AM (#4690850)
I'd hesitate to trade Mejia. I think the Mets best chance of actually being good in the next few years is because of an excellent pitching staff with just enough hitting. I am really, really high on Mejia. I'd much rather trade Niese than him.
   41. formerly dp Posted: April 22, 2014 at 06:20 AM (#4690870)
I'd hesitate to trade Mejia. I think the Mets best chance of actually being good in the next few years is because of an excellent pitching staff with just enough hitting. I am really, really high on Mejia. I'd much rather trade Niese than him.
I agree with this. If he is as good as he's looked so far, he's someone they should build around rather than deal. It's easy to forget that pre-surgery, Mejia was talked about as having ace potential-- there's not a lot to suggest that's not still the case. Not everyone can come up and be Matt Harvey right away, but Mejia's been closer to Harvey than Wheeler, and no one's proposed moving the latter.

Ray, the Mets tried Davis at 1B and Duda in a corner a year ago. They did not like what they saw. I still don't understand the preference for Duda over Davis at 1B, especially given the difference in their defense and similarities with the bat, but the solution wasn't to push Duda back to the OF. I was hopeful that whoever ended up in LF would be a half-season placeholder for Puello, but he has really struggled at AAA post-suspension. Not that it means anything, but Dykstra's Vegas line is up to a very Vegasy .389/.542/.722.
   42. Lassus Posted: April 22, 2014 at 08:31 AM (#4690896)
I still don't understand the preference for Duda over Davis at 1B, especially given the difference in their defense and similarities with the bat

I really wanted to give this a HUZZAH and agreement, but upon further reflection his time had simply run out with the Mets. I honestly am not convinced that Duda is anything special at this point, and I think Davis will ultimately have the better career. The problem is, that may not be much to write home about anyhow.
   43. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: April 22, 2014 at 08:40 AM (#4690902)
2013, min 300 PA, min 60 games at SS, min Rfield of -5 ... only 20 players topped a 600 OPS. Only 25 players even qualified under those criteria. Who the F played SS last year?

Well, there are an extra 7 guys who had less than -5 Rfield.

It's pretty hard to give more than 1 SS more than 300 PA. But apparently at least 2 teams managed it anyway. So you have 5 teams with a crappy offensive SS, and 7 teams with a crappy defensive one. That doesn't sound unreasonable. Not every team can have an above average (offensive and defensive) SS... pretty much by definition.

On a side note, Eduardo Nunez had -27 Rfield in 336 PA. Holy hell, that is like -50 over a full season. And here I thought the Yanks couldn't find a worse defensive SS than Jeter if they tried.
   44. formerly dp Posted: April 22, 2014 at 08:49 AM (#4690911)
The problem is, that may not be much to write home about anyhow.
How many more grand slams will it take to make you a believer?

The decision-making here just seems weird-- even if we assume they're a wash with the bat, the Mets got nothing substantive in return for Davis (depends on the PTBNL, of course), he's better with the glove, and he's the only one of the two with a 30-homer season under his belt. Maybe it just comes down to salary, which is understandable, but Davis still seems like the better all-around player.

Career lines, can you tell them apart?
.247/.342/.425/.768
.243/.335/.435/.770
   45. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: April 22, 2014 at 09:03 AM (#4690922)
Not Dan-Murphy-horrible


Just for reference, is Dan-Murphy-horrible better or worse than Todd-Hundley-horrible?
   46. Arbitol Dijaler Posted: April 22, 2014 at 09:09 AM (#4690925)
Davis is probably the better player than Duda with more upside, but I can imagine that even while the return for Davis looks meager, the return for Duda might have been zero. Duda has almost no track record of major league success. So some minor prospects, $3M salary relief vs. nothing and nada. So long as you think Duda won't embarrass himself in a platoon role, the choice is defensible. This is a long way of saying they could have gone either way and it wouldn't matter much.

I'm sure Davis will now go on to 400 career HR, but we can be pretty comfortable that never would have happened with the Mets because lolMets.
   47. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: April 22, 2014 at 09:30 AM (#4690941)
Is Francoeur really trying to pitch or was that a one time thing

One time thing - blowout mop-up situation.
   48. Lassus Posted: April 22, 2014 at 09:32 AM (#4690945)
Fdp - listen, I was in Mexico, I can't be blamed for this.
   49. formerly dp Posted: April 22, 2014 at 09:41 AM (#4690952)
Fdp - listen, I was in Mexico, I can't be blamed for this.
Said every guilty person ever.
   50. Ray (RDP) Posted: April 22, 2014 at 11:16 AM (#4691058)
I really wanted to give this a HUZZAH and agreement, but upon further reflection his time had simply run out with the Mets. I honestly am not convinced that Duda is anything special at this point, and I think Davis will ultimately have the better career. The problem is, that may not be much to write home about anyhow.


Davis and Duda look pretty similar, actually. One has been more streaky than the other but when the dust has settled on their stat sheets their careers look similar.
   51. billyshears Posted: April 22, 2014 at 11:21 AM (#4691064)
I would have kept Ike. While I think Duda will be a perfectly cromulent 1b for a couple of seasons and that Davis will be cromulent on the whole but prone to extended slumps, I would much preferred to have taken the chance on Davis's upsize.

On Mejia, while I never want to trade a potential high upside pitcher (i) you have to give up something to get something, (ii) he has 1 TJ surgery under his belt and has had recent elbow problems, (iii) I really do think the Mets need another major bat and (iv) while it's a good problem to have, the Mets may be in a situation very soon where they have more starting pitchers than they can play (who am I kidding - Syndergaard's arm is probably going to blow up in 3 days). While "you can never have too much pitching" is generally a pretty good mantra to live by, it doesn't make much sense to warehouse so much extra pitching while fielding a significantly below average offense.
   52. formerly dp Posted: April 22, 2014 at 11:40 AM (#4691081)
While "you can never have too much pitching" is generally a pretty good mantra to live by, it doesn't make much sense to warehouse so much extra pitching while fielding a significantly below average offense.
I don't think anyone should be untouchable here-- they don't have that luxury-- but the arms with the highest upside and with the most team control left are the ones they should prioritize hanging onto. I would deal Niese/Gee before Mejia, but if other clubs are valuing Mejia highly enough to give something more significant for him than for the other two, then...yeah, pull that trigger and don't look back. But Mejia seems like a guy who has more value to the club right now than he does in trade.

The 2015 rotation has 8 candidates that project to be at minimum solid #4 starters/inning-eaters. I'd expect to see at least one of them gone by the deadline this year, especially given what seems like an avalanche of injuries to quality starters on contending teams.
   53. Ray (RDP) Posted: April 22, 2014 at 12:41 PM (#4691131)
Even if Duda isn't passable in the outfield (I will concede the point that he doesn't hit well enough to justify his bad defense there) I don't see why they couldn't keep both players around. A two-way or three-way platoon at first base is indeed a waste of roster space, but so is the 12th pitcher or Bobby Abreu. And players get hurt or play poorly, so these logjams usually resolve themselves. And the Mets are going nowhere this year, so it's not like having options next year with regard to Davis/Duda would hurt.
   54. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: April 22, 2014 at 01:18 PM (#4691165)
And players get hurt or play poorly, so these logjams usually resolve themselves. And the Mets are going nowhere this year, so it's not like having options next year with regard to Davis/Duda would hurt.

I think the Mets are hoping that Duda is going to prove to be a better hitter if he plays consistently at first base. He's never gotten the opportunity to play first base at the MLB level. Basically, they've tried having the logjam around and they felt it has resolved things.
   55. Hysterical & Useless Posted: April 22, 2014 at 03:56 PM (#4691381)
If only they could've traded Wilpon and kept Davis....
   56. Banta Posted: April 22, 2014 at 07:50 PM (#4691541)
8 starting pitching candidates doesn't really sound like a surplus to me. That sounds around where you would want to be.

Ike's long slumps mean a lot to me. I prefer Dude's variance and the potential that a consistent position and playing time could increase performance. I don't really think there's an obvious answer in Ike vs Lucas.
   57. Arbitol Dijaler Posted: April 22, 2014 at 08:33 PM (#4691567)
Davis pitched in college. Maybe they should have tried him at closer.
   58. Howie Menckel Posted: April 22, 2014 at 08:37 PM (#4691572)

or setup man like his Dad, Ron...

   59. Walt Davis Posted: April 22, 2014 at 10:46 PM (#4691649)
It's pretty hard to give more than 1 SS more than 300 PA.

Just for clarification, I didn't require 300 PA at SS nor 60 starts at SS, just 300 PA overall and 60 games at SS. Not that there's going to be a huge difference between those two criteria.

But recall the remark I was responding to -- that surely a team could find a SS who could put up a 600 OPS with decent defense. Bob's thorough list doesn't change the conclusion that the answer to that question is that it is not easy.

Of the 27 with at least 81 games (not starts) at SS, 6 had a sub-600 OPS. Generally speaking, none of the 21 and not most of the other 6 are going to be freely available since their teams would have to find a new SS. Some of the 6 could have been had pretty cheaply though but one of them is Quintanilla whom the Mets have.

Drop the criterion to 30 games and you pick up a few 600 OPS guys like Ronny Cedeno, Jayson Nix, Nunez and mostly other unavailable guys. Now, fair enough, out of these 45 guys, Tejada is the one with the lowest OPS so maybe even Adam Rosales would be an improvement.

But even on this second list, add the requirement of Rfield of -5 and you're down to just 35 names, only 28 over a 600 OPS. Remember, a lot of these guys had very little SS time so a -5 Rfield (which would also include time at 2B, etc. for some of them) is pretty bad. Anyway, of the 28 over a 600 OPS, the only ones close to freely available were Kawasaki and Nix. In about 650 career innings, Nix is rated as average at SS. Rosales also fits the general bill with a career OPS a smidgen over 600 and about average in 550 career innings at SS. But they have Quintanilla who is a bit under 600 but a bit above average in a nearly full-season's worth of innings at SS. But then Tejada is over 600 for his career but -10 in about 1.5 seasons worth of SS.

There are presumably a ton of guys at AAA playing SS but the ones that are available are probably, on average, a bit worse than Tejada or at least it's unlikely they're substantially better than Quintanilla or Rosales or ...

If you don't have one of the anointed 21 :-) and you don't have a good SS prospect, about all you can do is bring in 2-3 Tejada/Quintanilla types and hope the random role of the dice gives you the 625 OPS with 0 Rfield although you're just as likely to get a 575 and a -5.

Anyway, to quote Bobm:

21 SS started 100 or more games for one team. 26 started more than 81.

That still leaves a ton of starts for the replacement level guys. I get 3656 starts from the team's main starters, leaving about 1200 starts for the other guys. And some of those starters aren't great shakes. Of the 27 with at least 81 games at SS, 6 were below replacement. Of the 45 with at least 30 games at SS, 9 were below replacement and another 8 were under .5 WAR. 28 guys with 30 games at SS and more than .5 WAR. This is why more teams should have been interested in Nick Punto, Brendan Ryan, Mike Aviles and apparently even Jayson Nix.

Like I said, it might be fairly easy to find a replacement-level SS (take those 17 plus the top 13 or so minor league FA SS) but it's gonna be a crap shoot as to where they land on the WAR scale at season's end ... and Tejada and Quintanilla are among those replacement-level guys. Granted, by WAR, they are among the worst of those 45.

Anyway, Ronny Cedeno is currently hitting 140 of the Phils' AAA team, you can give him a try. :-) He's been exactly replacement level for his last 1800 PAs over 5 years. Alex Gonzalez is available again I think (>600 OPS, +7 Rfield, .5 WAR from 11-13). And there's always Yuni!

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