Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Monday, February 11, 2013

Mets’ path to sign Bourn still cloudy

The Mets want this resolved, or else they will issue a Bourn ultimatum.

Maybe the New York Mets can pull the whole thing off and sign free-agent center fielder Michael Bourn without losing their first-round pick.

David Prouty, executive counsel of the players’ union, told The Boston Globe that he is in talks with baseball regarding the Mets’ desire to keep their pick if they sign Bourn.

One source with knowledge of the discussions said the team stands a “decent” chance of winning its argument that its first-round choice should be protected.

(The Mets had the 10th-worst record in the majors last season but fell to No. 11 — the first unprotected pick — when the Pittsburgh Pirates did not sign their first-rounder and, as compensation, moved back into the top 10).

Yet, the Mets’ path to Bourn still might not be clear.

Other clubs might have greater interest in Bourn than is being reported currently — and those clubs could sign Bourn without needing to wait for the union and baseball to resolve the draft-pick question, potentially in arbitration.

RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 11, 2013 at 05:34 PM | 68 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: cubs, draft pick compensation, indians, mariners, mets, michael bourn, rangers

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. Tripon Posted: February 11, 2013 at 08:59 PM (#4367417)
Why do the Mets want to sign Bourne? They're going to be bad regardless.
   2. Lassus Posted: February 11, 2013 at 09:08 PM (#4367421)
I know no one will probably agree, but the appearance of caring might be important. Also, shit in the major leagues, especially for a team with a market that big, is not on the same geologic timescale that the Royals and Pirates are on. It can change fast enough for Bourn's signing to not be a waste.
   3. Arbitol Dijaler Posted: February 11, 2013 at 09:09 PM (#4367422)
PECOTA says 80-82. Add Bourn, you're pretty much replacing a replacement-level outfielder, so add 4 wins. Things break right, add somebody at the deadline ...
   4. JJ1986 Posted: February 11, 2013 at 09:30 PM (#4367431)
   5. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: February 11, 2013 at 09:36 PM (#4367436)
PECOTA says 80-82. Add Bourn, you're pretty much replacing a replacement-level outfielder, so add 4 wins. Things break right, add somebody at the deadline ...


You're looking at two 90+ win teams at the top of the NL East already. Something would have to break very, very right.
   6. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 11, 2013 at 09:40 PM (#4367439)
That was a nice dream for three hours.

If Heyman is right as to terms, 4/48 with $12M vesting option, that's a steal for Cleveland.
   7. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: February 11, 2013 at 09:41 PM (#4367440)
There was no market for Bourn for anyone without a protected pick. This means the Braves will get no first round draft pick.
   8. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 11, 2013 at 09:44 PM (#4367443)
There was no market for Bourn for anyone without a protected pick. This means the Braves will get no first round draft pick.

Don't they still get a sandwich pick? Cle just loses a 2nd rather than a 1st.

I know the Braves don't actually get Cleveland's pick.
   9. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: February 11, 2013 at 09:45 PM (#4367444)
They still get a sandwich, I think. Tampa gets the Braves' first round pick (#30) for Upton the First.
   10. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 11, 2013 at 09:47 PM (#4367447)
They still get a sandwich, I think. Tampa gets the Braves' first round pick (#30) for Upton the First.

No. The Braves' pick just disappears (IIRC). TB also gets a sandwich.
   11. billyshears Posted: February 11, 2013 at 09:48 PM (#4367448)
I know no one will probably agree, but the appearance of caring might be important. Also, #### in the major leagues, especially for a team with a market that big, is not on the same geologic timescale that the Royals and Pirates are on. It can change fast enough for Bourn's signing to not be a waste.


I generally agree. I don't care so much about appearances, but I do think it's generally a good idea to acquire reasonably valued assets that will help your team win. To the point raised in #5, signing Bourn would reduce the amount of crazy #### that would have to happen for the Mets to contend. If you can make a few moves like that, all of the sudden, you're a contender.
   12. JJ1986 Posted: February 11, 2013 at 09:49 PM (#4367450)
I think the Braves pick in exactly the same place they'd pick if the Mariners had signed him. All comp picks are sandwich picks now.
   13. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 11, 2013 at 09:49 PM (#4367451)
I generally agree. I don't care so much about appearances, but I do think it's generally a good idea to acquire reasonably valued assets that will help your team win. To the point raised in #5, signing Bourn would reduce the amount of crazy #### that would have to happen for the Mets to contend. If you can make a few moves like that, all of the sudden, you're a contender.

Not to mention it's a great deal for Cleveland. They're paying for him to average 2 WAR over the contract.
   14. JJ1986 Posted: February 11, 2013 at 09:50 PM (#4367452)
You're looking at two 90+ win teams at the top of the NL East already.


You're that high on the Phillies?
   15. Lassus Posted: February 11, 2013 at 09:52 PM (#4367455)
Well done.
   16. formerly dp Posted: February 11, 2013 at 09:55 PM (#4367458)
Dammit, Walt had me convinced that signing Bourn would have been a good move.

PECOTA says 80-82.
That sounds high to me, and I generally tend toward optimism in February. The infield actually isn't bad, but that OF is horrendous. Didn't the Cubs just DFA Campana to make room for Hairston)? Even that might be an upgrade over what's on hand.
   17. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: February 11, 2013 at 09:59 PM (#4367460)
I don't think it is unreasonable for the Mets to think that they could compete soon. They'll be freeing up some money when Santana and Bay's contracts are over. They have some nice pieces and have some very intriguing young pitching. More importantly, they weren't horrible last year. I don't think it would have been odd to try to add a good outfielder this year even when they don't think they can make the playoffs this year.

That's a reasonable deal for the Indians and I would have been happy had the Mets made that deal. How about someone like Grady Sizemore?

   18. Dog on the sidewalk Posted: February 11, 2013 at 10:02 PM (#4367462)
You're looking at two 90+ win teams at the top of the NL East already. Something would have to break very, very right.


Doesn't mean you don't try. Replacing Colin Cowgill with a guy who has been worth over 14 WAR the past 3 years is a good way to improve the odds.
   19. Dog on the sidewalk Posted: February 11, 2013 at 10:06 PM (#4367467)
That's a reasonable deal for the Indians and I would have been happy had the Mets made that deal. How about someone like Grady Sizemore?


At this point, they should be sending spring training invitations to every available outfielder who's started a game in AAA or higher in the past 3 years.
   20. JJ1986 Posted: February 11, 2013 at 10:11 PM (#4367471)
At this point, they should be sending spring training invitations to every available outfielder who's started a game in AAA or higher in the past 3 years.


Scott Podsednik, come on down.
   21. Darren Posted: February 11, 2013 at 10:15 PM (#4367481)
Even cloudier now.
   22. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: February 11, 2013 at 10:19 PM (#4367483)
Apparently, the Mets matched the 4y/48m part of the contract but did not add the vesting option. That's why they didn't get him.
   23. formerly dp Posted: February 11, 2013 at 10:22 PM (#4367485)
How about someone like Grady Sizemore?
I think he's going to be out for the start of the season.

I'm excited about the steps forward Flores took last year-- I don't know what the scouts said about his gains, but he's finally showing some real power. He's in the F-Mart boat, in that he has been in the system for so long it's easy to forget he'll only be 21 this year.
   24. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 11, 2013 at 10:25 PM (#4367489)
Apparently, the Mets matched the 4y/48m part of the contract but did not add the vesting option. That's why they didn't get him.

Silly. I can see not wanting to lose the #11 pick, but $12M 5 years from now?
   25. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: February 11, 2013 at 10:30 PM (#4367494)
I think he's going to be out for the start of the season.


He's Grady Sizemore, the Nick Johnson of outfielders. He's going to be out to start every season.
   26. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: February 11, 2013 at 10:37 PM (#4367501)
This is the Met outfield. Grady Sizemore could be upgrade if he were playing with one arm.
   27. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: February 11, 2013 at 10:44 PM (#4367509)
This is the Met outfield. Grady Sizemore could be upgrade if he were playing with one arm.


I admittedly ignored the Mets for most of 2012, so I had to look. Which leads me to the obvious question. Who the #### is Mike Baxter?!
   28. Dog on the sidewalk Posted: February 11, 2013 at 10:49 PM (#4367512)
Who the #### is Mike Baxter?!


The Mets best outfielder? You probably heard of him last year when he crashed into a wall to save Johan's no-hitter, injuring himself in the process, then missing a couple months.
   29. Jack Carter, calling Beleaguered Castle Posted: February 11, 2013 at 10:50 PM (#4367514)
I generally agree. I don't care so much about appearances, but I do think it's generally a good idea to acquire reasonably valued assets that will help your team win. To the point raised in #5, signing Bourn would reduce the amount of crazy #### that would have to happen for the Mets to contend. If you can make a few moves like that, all of the sudden, you're a contender.


Problem is, the Mets can't make a few moves like that. No money, no talent it makes sense to trade. They're also in exactly the wrong place to sign a guy whose trajectory is likely to be 4-3-2-1 wins. Adding a guy like Bourn in the 2014-15 offseason will probably make a lot more sense.
   30. JJ1986 Posted: February 11, 2013 at 10:51 PM (#4367515)
Who the #### is Mike Baxter?!


That's Starting Right Fielder Mike Baxter.
   31. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 11, 2013 at 10:52 PM (#4367516)
They're also in exactly the wrong place to sign a guy whose trajectory is likely to be 4-3-2-1 wins.

Why would you expect that rapid of a decline from a 30 y.o.?
   32. Jack Carter, calling Beleaguered Castle Posted: February 11, 2013 at 10:53 PM (#4367517)
Apparently, the Mets matched the 4y/48m part of the contract but did not add the vesting option. That's why they didn't get him.
Silly. I can see not wanting to lose the #11 pick, but $12M 5 years from now?


You're assuming the Mets ever intended to sign Bourn.

edit: why would you not? Anyway, it's not a rapid decline for a good, not great player. It's hard to last into your mid30s in baseball as a regular. Those guys are the exceptions. It's not insult when it's assumed that you won't last past 34 or so. 3.5-4 win players don't typically have nice gentle declines stretching from age 30 to 37.


.
   33. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: February 11, 2013 at 10:55 PM (#4367520)
You probably heard of him last year when he crashed into a wall to save Johan's no-hitter


Not really. Mike Baxter sounds like a lawyer from Connecticut.
   34. billyshears Posted: February 11, 2013 at 10:56 PM (#4367522)
Silly. I can see not wanting to lose the #11 pick, but $12M 5 years from now?


ESPN says that the reluctance to give up the #11 pick was the issue. I think that's a valid reason, so long as the Mets pick somebody with a higher ceiling than Gavin Ceccini this year.
   35. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 11, 2013 at 11:01 PM (#4367527)
edit: why would you not? Anyway, it's not a rapid decline for a good, not great player. It's hard to last into your mid30s in baseball as a regular. Those guys are the exceptions. It's not insult when it's assumed that you won't last past 34 or so. 3.5-4 win players don't typically have nice gentle declines stretching from age 30 to 37.

He averaged almost 5 WAR from 26-29. At this price you're asking him to generate 10 WAR through age 34.

It would require a total collapse for him to be not worth the contract, and then you're out of the deal after 4 years, b/c you bench him and the option doesn't vest.
   36. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: February 11, 2013 at 11:02 PM (#4367528)
I thought the Mets had been told that they wouldn't lose their pick. If that's not true, yeah, I am OK with them not giving up that pick to the Braves, who would have drafted the second coming of Willie Mays.

Rotoworld said that they offered him 4y/48m so it looks like they made him a legit offer.

Who do the Mets have in the mix right now in the OF? Marlon Byrd, Duda, Baxter, Nieuwenhuis, and Cowgill? Is that it? That's going to be awful.


   37. JJ1986 Posted: February 11, 2013 at 11:06 PM (#4367530)
Is that it?


They have Andrew Brown too. He's not very good, but I like him more than Byrd or Cowgill (as a hitter).
   38. Jack Carter, calling Beleaguered Castle Posted: February 11, 2013 at 11:09 PM (#4367532)
@35: If your argument is that he'll be worth 4/48, that's a pretty decent bet. The question of whether he's the right signing this offseason for these Mets is an entirely different one.
   39. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 11, 2013 at 11:12 PM (#4367535)
@35: If your argument is that he'll be worth 4/48, that's a pretty decent bet. The question of whether he's the right signing this offseason for these Mets is an entirely different one.

Well, if he's almost certain to be worth the deal, and might be a good bit better than that, and they have no OF, why wouldn't they sign him?

Only reason is to reline the Wilpons' empty pockets. Assuming the pick wouldn't be lost.
   40. Jack Carter, calling Beleaguered Castle Posted: February 11, 2013 at 11:15 PM (#4367538)
As I wrote, that he's going to not be very good by the time the Mets have a shot at it is why.

Of course, if the only difference between signing and not signing is that the Wilpons keep the money, by all means get him. Still, in that scenario, I would have kept Dickey and used the difference between Bourn and Dickey to fill in starting in 2015.

edit: you seem to be under the impression that the Mets are like other, saner baseball teams. I've taken over the last couple of years to see them instead as practitioners of a kind of performance art, meaning I want to be entertained. Dickey was by far the most entertaining Met, so I would have kept him. Waiting for the Mets to win under the Wilpons is like engaging in eternal foreplay. You keep searching for ways to be tittilated, but there won't be a climax.

   41. Benji Posted: February 11, 2013 at 11:16 PM (#4367539)
I'm seriously asking this: can you name a worse outfield than what the Mets are going to subject us to? I don't mean now, I mean in your entire life of following baseball. I really can't. I Baseball Referenced every first year expansion team and couldn't find one worse. In 50 years of following the Mets I can honestly say I have less enthusiasm for them than I ever had. When bringing in Marlon Byrd, Corey Patterson and Pedro Feliciano are supposed to get me psyched?
   42. Dog on the sidewalk Posted: February 11, 2013 at 11:16 PM (#4367542)

Well, if he's almost certain to be worth the deal, and might be a good bit better than that, and they have no OF, why wouldn't they sign him?


Bourn could be worth 4/48 and still not be a good idea as a signing. If the thinking is that this team has no chance to contend this year or next, all signing Bourn accomplishes is getting the team a worse draft pick the next couple years, then when the team is ready to contend, it's entirely possible they're stuck with an untradeable fourth outfielder who makes $12 million and impedes improvement elsewhere on the roster.

I don't agree with the thinking, as I think this team is closer to contention than the anti-Bourn crowd feels, but it's understandable.
   43. Jack Carter, calling Beleaguered Castle Posted: February 11, 2013 at 11:22 PM (#4367545)
I don't mean now, I mean in your entire life of following baseball.


This cracked me up.
   44. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: February 11, 2013 at 11:24 PM (#4367546)
I don't think you can plan like this but you could sign Bourn and trade him as well as long as you think he will be good over the next year or two. The Marlins did it with Beurhle and Reyes.
   45. PreservedFish Posted: February 11, 2013 at 11:45 PM (#4367557)
In 50 years of following the Mets I can honestly say I have less enthusiasm for them than I ever had. When bringing in Marlon Byrd, Corey Patterson and Pedro Feliciano are supposed to get me psyched?


They have their best run of prospects since the Reyes/Wright/Kazmir/Milledge days, that's something worth watching for.

To answer your question, last year's Astros began the year with Schafer, Martinez and Bogusevic in the outfield. They were all below replacement level last year. That's pretty bad, and of the three Martinez is the only one that looked like he might have underperformed - Schafer and Bogusevic were known to be garbage. Their 4th outfielder Justin Maxwell had a very nice year and eventually won a starting job. So, yeah, they might still be better than the Mets.
   46. formerly dp Posted: February 11, 2013 at 11:46 PM (#4367558)
It looks like they tried to sign him and failed. Not a big conspiracy or anything. It does mean that they're stuck with what's on-hand. If you squint enough, you can see Kirk and Duda being OK. What I don't understand is the decision to not snag Hairston, unless at that point they thought they had a legit shot at Bourn. But even then, what was the fear? Afraid of having 2 full outfielders between the 5 on the roster?

When bringing in Marlon Byrd, Corey Patterson and Pedro Feliciano are supposed to get me psyched?
You left difference-makers LaTroy Hawkins and Brandon Lyon off of your list.

Snagging Marcum was a good move.
   47. PreservedFish Posted: February 11, 2013 at 11:49 PM (#4367560)
I've taken over the last couple of years to see them instead as practitioners of a kind of performance art, meaning I want to be entertained. Dickey was by far the most entertaining Met, so I would have kept him.


Strongly agree with this. And if Alderson concluded the same and began focusing primarily on fun or wacky players, I would support that.
   48. billyshears Posted: February 12, 2013 at 12:15 AM (#4367571)
Problem is, the Mets can't make a few moves like that. No money, no talent it makes sense to trade. They're also in exactly the wrong place to sign a guy whose trajectory is likely to be 4-3-2-1 wins. Adding a guy like Bourn in the 2014-15 offseason will probably make a lot more sense.


I would agree with you if this were a contract that was likely to significantly hamstring the Mets on the back end. But, even if Bourn were just a 1 WAR player in the last year, that's only $7 mil in deficient value (assuming $5 mil/WAR, which is probably low), and Bourn would still be worth the contract at 4-3-2-1 (which is a very pessimistic assumption). This signing would make the Mets better and they would be acquiring an asset that looks to be undervalued at the moment. Those kinds of moves are good moves any time. Maybe Bourn would have helped the Mets accomplish the unexpected or maybe they would have traded him for prospects or maybe he would have just made the Mets a bit more fun to watch. I'd like any of those things.

The other thing is, you can't expect to become a contender all at once. And the market for professional baseball players isn't terribly liquid. Sometimes you have to make a move when a good move is available rather than waiting until the perfect time to make a move - the right move might not be there for the making at the perfect time. So you pick up 5 or so 2014 wins with Bourn now, and maybe a few more with trades in season, and maybe a bunch more this offseason after Santana and Bay come of the books (mostly). But if you don't get the 5 now with Bourn, you have a bigger hill to climb and you still have to find a CF.
   49. PreservedFish Posted: February 12, 2013 at 12:34 AM (#4367583)
If Bourn were a 1 WAR player on the 2013 Mets, he would be known as "by far our best outfielder."
   50. Jack Carter, calling Beleaguered Castle Posted: February 12, 2013 at 12:35 AM (#4367584)
@48: Your points are all cogent or better, given any decently run baseball team.
   51. Honkie Kong Posted: February 12, 2013 at 02:10 AM (#4367621)
2008 Braves : Gregor Blanco / Mark Kotsay / Jeff Francoeur ( Josh Anderson 4th OF )
2009 Braves : Garret Anderson / Nate McLouth / Jeff Francoeur ( Matt Diaz having a miracle season , his last good season, stopped this from being the disaster it seems on paper ).
   52. Sweatpants Posted: February 12, 2013 at 03:11 AM (#4367629)
2008 Braves : Gregor Blanco / Mark Kotsay / Jeff Francoeur ( Josh Anderson 4th OF )
And Kotsay was traded midseason, which meant that utility infielder Omar Infante and pinch-hitter Greg Norton also saw a decent amount of time in the outfield.

Edit: To correct myself, Kotsay wasn't traded until late August, and all of Norton's outfield starts came before then. From then on, it was Anderson in CF, with a mixture of Blanco, Infante, and Brandon Jones (I did not at all remember him getting 27 starts that year) in LF.

Bad times.
   53. Greg K Posted: February 12, 2013 at 07:30 AM (#4367638)
I was trying to find the Jays worst OF, but since Barfield and Moseby teamed up in 1982 they've always had strong outfields.

George Bell, Devon White, Joe Carter, Shawn Green, Shannon Stewart, Vernon Wells, Alex Rios, Jose Bautista. They've always had at least one guy in the outfield, usually two, who was probably a top 25 OF at the time.
   54. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: February 12, 2013 at 08:18 AM (#4367639)
You would think the 1997 Phils OF of Gregg Jeffries, Midre Cummings and 35 yo Darren Daulton would rank down there with the worst but Cummings put up a 110 ERA+ and Daulton a 124, albeit in 234 and 333 PAs. Jeffries clocked in with an 89. That left Tony Barron (96) and Ruben Amaro, Jr. (68) with 200 or more PAs and still left 100+ PAs for Wendell Magee (36), Derrick May (47) and Ricky Otero (74). Even "Free" Billy McMillon (105) got 81 PAs.

What they lacked in quality suck they more than made up for in quality suck.
   55. Fernigal McGunnigle has become a merry hat Posted: February 12, 2013 at 09:34 AM (#4367648)
The 1988 Mariners started the season with an OF rotation of Mickey Brantley (90 OPS+, -0.3 dWAR), Henry Cotto (86, -0.2), Glenn Wilson (75, -0.6), and Mike Kingery (64, -0.2). Brantley had been good in 1987, but the rest were known to suck. Wilson at least had an entertaining arm, I guess.

The Mariners called up Jay Buhner in May, traded Wilson for the mercurial Darnell Coles in July, and called up Griffey in '89. So things turned around pretty quickly.
   56. Fernigal McGunnigle has become a merry hat Posted: February 12, 2013 at 09:46 AM (#4367657)
The '98 Devil Rays had a pretty bad OF rotation for the first half of the season: Mike Kelly, Quentin McCracken, Randy Winn, Dave Martinez, and Paul Sorrento. This is before Winn was any good. Bubba Trammell came up to stay in July and hit well.

The '97 Royals OF Was Bip Roberts (90 OPS+), Tom Goodwin (71), a young Jermaine Dye (69), a young Johnny Damon (88), and Yamil Benitez (88).
   57. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: February 12, 2013 at 10:20 AM (#4367667)
Oh, how could I forget that '97 Royals OF? That was our first full season out there. The best part about that OF is that my wife loved the name Bip Roberts.
   58. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: February 12, 2013 at 11:27 AM (#4367720)
They're also in exactly the wrong place to sign a guy whose trajectory is likely to be 4-3-2-1 wins.

Why would you expect that rapid of a decline from a 30 y.o.?


Ok, I looked at everyone (last 30 years) who had 3.9 to 4.1 WAR in their age 3 seasons

here's what they averaged by age:
30: 4.0
31: 2.5
32: 2.6
33: 1.9

problems:
sample size- just 19 players- age 32 is thrown off slightly by Brett having a monster year

selection bias: the 19 players on average likely had less than 4.0 "true talent" at age 30.

   59. GregD Posted: February 12, 2013 at 11:31 AM (#4367725)
Ok, I looked at everyone (last 30 years) who had 3.9 to 4.1 WAR in their age 3 seasons
Whoa, my kid is an underachiever
   60. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: February 12, 2013 at 11:32 AM (#4367726)
The 2005 Giants outfield looked pretty bad in spring training, when Barry Bonds was forced to sit out nearly the whole season and they were left with Pedro Feliz in LF every day, "prospects" Todd Linden and Jason Ellison, and the assembled corpses of Marquis Grissom and Michael Tucker.

However they also had Moises Alou, who put up another great season at age 38, and they eventually traded for Randy Winn.
   61. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: February 12, 2013 at 11:36 AM (#4367729)
RE: the Braves 2008 OF, when your fan base is begging you to start Brandon Jones more often, you suck.
   62. CFBF Is A Golden Spider Duck Posted: February 12, 2013 at 11:37 AM (#4367731)
Gregor Blanco was fun in a "science experiment gone horribly right" kind of way.
   63. bobm Posted: February 12, 2013 at 11:42 AM (#4367737)
Mets’ path to sign Bourn still-born cloudy


FTFY
   64. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 12, 2013 at 11:50 AM (#4367747)
selection bias: the 19 players on average likely had less than 4.0 "true talent" at age 30.

Yeah, you probably want players who averaged >4 WAR in their 3-4 prior seasons, but then SSS gets even worse.
   65. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: February 12, 2013 at 12:44 PM (#4367843)
I'm seriously asking this: can you name a worse outfield than what the Mets are going to subject us to? I don't mean now, I mean in your entire life of following baseball.


The 1985 Pirates were pretty bad. Left-to-right on opening day, you had Doug Froebel (.189/.301/.258) filling in for an injured Steve Kemp (.250/.317/.347 in his last season as a regular), the worst season of Marvell Wynne's not-particularly-distinguished career (.205/.247/.258), and a could-not-possibly-give-less-of-a-#### George Hendrick (.230/.278/.313).

That said, the reserves (rookie Joe Orsulak, Mike Brown, Sixto Lezcano, and Bill Almon) ended up being at least half-decent, so it wasn't a complete and total wash once the starters played their way out of the lineup.
   66. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 12, 2013 at 12:58 PM (#4367869)
was trying to find the Jays worst OF, but since Barfield and Moseby teamed up in 1982 they've always had strong outfields.


1978 Jays - Bob Bailor (82 OPS+), Rick Bosetti (81), Al Woods (79). Otto Velez was very good off the bench though. That was the same outfield in 1979 with pretty much the same results and Velez being good again off the bench.

How bout them 2011 Mariners? Ichiro (86), Carlos Peguero (76), Franklin Gutierrez (54), with reserves Michael Saunders (23) and Trayvon Robinson (67). Mike Carp (125) also played 27 games in LF and Milton Bradley and Casper Wells were decent in very limited action.
   67. Benji Posted: February 12, 2013 at 03:42 PM (#4368099)
You guys did find some bad OFs! I still think this one is worse, but I'll let that go and comment on something that may actually be good news. With Francisco out, Parnell has been given the closer job. I think he turned a corner in the second half of 2012 and will do an excellent job.
   68. PreservedFish Posted: February 12, 2013 at 05:41 PM (#4368249)
Some of those bad OFs at least have famous players.

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
A triple short of the cycle
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogMadison Bumgarner, World Series legend - McCovey Chronicles
(65 - 1:44pm, Oct 30)
Last: Der-K and the statistical werewolves.

NewsblogOT: Politics, October 2014: Sunshine, Baseball, and Etch A Sketch: How Politicians Use Analogies
(4665 - 1:43pm, Oct 30)
Last: Ron J2

NewsblogOT: Monthly NBA Thread - October 2014
(589 - 1:33pm, Oct 30)
Last: A Fatty Cow That Need Two Seats

NewsblogSan Francisco Giants at Kansas City Royals - October 29, 2014 | MLB.com Box
(68 - 1:33pm, Oct 30)
Last: Booey

NewsblogOT: NBC.news: Valve isn’t making one gaming console, but multiple ‘Steam machines’
(980 - 1:29pm, Oct 30)
Last: madvillain

NewsblogPrimer Dugout (and link of the day) 10-30-2014
(13 - 1:19pm, Oct 30)
Last: JJ1986

NewsblogJoe Maddon is to become Cubs manager, sources say
(98 - 1:19pm, Oct 30)
Last: McCoy

Newsblog2014 WORLD SERIES GAME 7 OMNICHATTER
(1438 - 1:16pm, Oct 30)
Last: Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama

Hall of MeritMost Meritorious Player: 1959 Ballot
(11 - 1:05pm, Oct 30)
Last: neilsen

NewsblogHeyman: Pablo Sandoval is on Boston's 3B wish list, but so is Chase Headley
(30 - 1:05pm, Oct 30)
Last: villageidiom

NewsblogRoad maps to pitching success in Game 7 | FOX Sports
(10 - 12:39pm, Oct 30)
Last: The Chronicles of Reddick

NewsblogVanguard after the Revolution | NBC SportsWorld
(52 - 12:13pm, Oct 30)
Last: McCoy

NewsblogStatcast: Butler chugs home
(1 - 11:38am, Oct 30)
Last: Davo's Favorite Tacos Are Moose Tacos

NewsblogJapan Times: Nakamura belts three-run homer in 10th to put Hawks one win away from Japan Series title
(10 - 11:32am, Oct 30)
Last: RMc is a fine piece of cheese

NewsblogAngell: The World Series is Almost Over
(1 - 9:22am, Oct 30)
Last: sotapop

Page rendered in 0.7305 seconds
52 querie(s) executed