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Monday, February 05, 2018

Mets pull Todd Frazier out of free agency for $17M

The Mets agreed to a deal with the veteran Frazier on Monday night for two years and $17 million, The Post’s Mike Puma confirmed. Frazier played the end of last season in The Bronx, after the Yankees acquired him in a multi-player trade with the White Sox.

The Yankees and Mets had each expressed interest in Frazier this offseason, with depth needed at the third-base position. The addition of Frazier means the Mets can play Asdrubal Cabrera at second, the position he recently told The Post’s Kevin Kernan he prefers.

Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: February 05, 2018 at 09:57 PM | 189 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: mets, todd frazier

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   101. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 06, 2018 at 10:13 PM (#5620848)
The resources available in public schools in wealthy suburbs dwarf those of all but the most elite private schools.

Not really. No.

They spend $20K per student, but after the vast administrative bloat, and special ed, the resources spent on the average student are far less than at a $30K private school.

In our area, Rye is an elite public school, spending $25,000 per student. Lots of parents still send their kids to our parochial school that costs ~$7,000 per student. It's full at 600 student, and these people are all paying $20K+ in taxes to live in Rye.

There is ZERO evidence that the amount of money spent per child makes any difference in educational outcome. NY City and Washington DC are perennially among the highest spending school districts per pupil, and their results are dwarfed by many, many public districts spending half as much, and inner city catholic schools spending 20% as much.
   102. 6 - 4 - 3 Posted: February 06, 2018 at 10:25 PM (#5620852)
See Hanushek, Eric
   103. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: February 06, 2018 at 10:37 PM (#5620855)
I wasn't trying to make a $/student argument. What I'm talking about is the fact that every kid in the Rye public schools has access to numerous programs and services that the kids in your parochial school simply don't (elite private schools are a different story of course). Hence your point that the $7k/yr parochial school investment isn't likely to have much of a return. Sorry I didn't make that clearer.

There are all sorts of perfectly legitimate reasons that people have for sending their kids to middle-of-the pack private schools instead of perfectly good public schools, but more or better resources (as most people define the term) are not high on the list.
   104. dejarouehg Posted: February 06, 2018 at 11:39 PM (#5620890)
If you go to schools in Rye or Chappaqua or Jericho or Syosset/Woodbury (where the school superintendent makes > $500K/yr), then you are fortunate to have schools that are the equivalent of any private school. And the price for that is paying $20-$40 in property taxes, which is still a better option, IMO, then paying $40-60 for private school. (I'll never understand the Manhattanites who spend this money on kindergarten and those schools often have waiting lists!!! So much of this b.s. is for show.)

Bottom line is what's the value of your disposable income, which in a fairer world, income taxes would be indexed to. That said, the reality is that in NYC, $500,000 is a nice income; not filthy rich and not struggling. Nor does it imply that you can afford an apartment in Manhattan that's much bigger than an average suburban living room.

I'll take $300K in NC over $500K in NYC all-day, every day.
   105. Walt Davis Posted: February 06, 2018 at 11:42 PM (#5620894)
I blame Robin Leach! With "Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous", you obviously weren't rich if you didn't own a 20,000 square foot property in downtown Manhattan, another in the Vineyard and either a 3,000-acre ranch in Montana or a private island. But making matters worse, all the stuff he showed was horribly tacky meaning the "real" rich had to out-do all of that and in a classy way.

In the US you're not really rich unless you can spend $400 million on the Congressional mid-terms through your super-PAC.
   106. Walt Davis Posted: February 06, 2018 at 11:56 PM (#5620903)
Now, let's see ...

52 business class round-trips per year = $26,000 (some international, some not)
7 nights in a $1,000/night hotel for 365 nights (no redeye flights) = $365,000 (ouch!)
365 days of restaurant meals at $300 per day = $109,000

So for $500,000 per year (take home), you could do that. But that doesn't make you rich, oh no, certainly not. Why there are pizza delivery boys in Manhattan who wish they could find a broom closet for $7,000 per week! Also you'd need to work which probably means hotel wi-fi which would at least triple that to $1.5 M per year.
   107. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: February 07, 2018 at 01:24 AM (#5620920)
[104] But North Carolina isn’t near any MLB team. Depending where in NC, the closest is either the Nationals or Braves and neither is particularly close. Then again, I lived in Oregon for three years and did just fine. Missed going to baseball games, though.
   108. PreservedFish Posted: February 07, 2018 at 01:35 AM (#5620923)
I love it when zop / ....... gets so nakedly elitist.

I'm sure, absolutely sure, that Todd Frazier started playing baseball so he could one day live on the Upper East Side and own a co-op with a view of the park. That's totally why. Isn't that the yardstick by which we all measure ourselves? Inconceivable that a guy that grew up in the suburbs and still lives in the suburbs might actually see himself, upon retirement, living in the suburbs. That paltry $17 million contract is really holding him back from his true potential - summers in the Hamptons, membership at a gentleman's club, subscription to the opera, a standing reservation at Daniel or Le Grenouille perhaps? Anyone that doesn't want that for themselves is either too stupid or coarse to understand it anyway.

I went to an elite Manhattan private school. I loved it. Made great friends there, and it gave me a nice little head start when I got to college. Now very few of my friends are from that world. I'm happily sending my kids to a public school in a blue collar town.
   109. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: February 07, 2018 at 03:25 AM (#5620924)

I grew up going to public schools in Westchester. Currently own a decent apartment in a nice neighborhood in Manhattan with much less money than Todd Frazier money in the bank. I am much closer to agreeing with snapper than ....... here.

Remember, even though Frazier might have less "income" in retirement than elite working Manhattanites, he also already has the savings that the latter are still trying to build. That $500k is all spending money to him, whereas the guy making $1m per year needs to save a lot of that (after he pays his taxes, of course) if he wants to retire with Todd Frazier money.
   110. stevegamer Posted: February 07, 2018 at 04:31 AM (#5620925)
I grew up going to public schools in Philly. Ended up at an elite private prep HS through an inner-city program. There are plenty of kids of "elites" who fail more spectaculrly than one imagines. Some of them don't even make it out of prep school.

There's no way you can't be set for life with the kind of money Frazier is making, but it entails not living a super-rich "look at me" kind of lifestyle. If you want that, you need to keep making money on top of the big lump you get from your big salary days.
   111. John Reynard Posted: February 07, 2018 at 05:02 AM (#5620926)
The resources available in public schools in wealthy suburbs dwarf those of all but the most elite private schools.

Not really. No.


It may not be typical. But, my cousins went to a "public" HS in suburban Boston where the average property value was $17M. Their down the street neighbor was Belichick, seriously. I know for a fact that that school had a substantial budget despite having maybe 65 kids per HS class. I bet they were way past any but the very most elite private schools for per-student spending. But, I mean it was functionally a private school because no houses in the district were zoned if the property value after construction was going to be less than $6-8M. Buying the house and paying the taxes was the price of getting your kid in. The carriage house at their place was 4600 sq ft so you know....it is what it is.

I'm sure every big genuinely rich city has a place like this. If they don't, they should. There is a market for that and why let a private school get all the dibs when student selection bias is about 95% of student performance differential anyhow?
   112. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: February 07, 2018 at 06:15 AM (#5620928)
I love it when zop / ....... gets so nakedly elitist.

Oh, is that who .......... is? Guess I misplaced my scorecard.

I'm sure, absolutely sure, that Todd Frazier started playing baseball so he could one day live on the Upper East Side and own a co-op with a view of the park. That's totally why. Isn't that the yardstick by which we all measure ourselves? Inconceivable that a guy that grew up in the suburbs and still lives in the suburbs might actually see himself, upon retirement, living in the suburbs. That paltry $17 million contract is really holding him back from his true potential - summers in the Hamptons, membership at a gentleman's club, subscription to the opera, a standing reservation at Daniel or Le Grenouille perhaps? Anyone that doesn't want that for themselves is either too stupid or coarse to understand it anyway.

Thank you, PF. Very well put.

I went to an elite Manhattan private school. I loved it. Made great friends there, and it gave me a nice little head start when I got to college. Now very few of my friends are from that world. I'm happily sending my kids to a public school in a blue collar town.

Hell, I started out life at NYC's New Lincoln School, which at least BITD was where some of the Rockefellers sent their kids.** After moving to DC,I went to what at the time was one of the best public high schools in the country, and then to Duke University, where I managed to make it through in 5 years + Summer school. Had more than a few offspring of cabinet members, military leaders, big businessmen, etc., as classmates and baseball teammates at both of those places. And now most of the people whose friendship I value the most are pool players, many of whom weren't even born in the U.S., and nearly all of whom never saw a college campus. YMMV and all that, but not everyone needs the silly accoutrements of the upper .01% to feel that he's "made it", whatever that's supposed to mean. I get the feeling that Todd Frazier is a lot smarter than to think that, even if he's now a Met.

** I have no idea how my parents could have ever afforded the tuition if we hadn't been living in a rent controlled apartment for $40 a month, but then this was one of those "progressive" schools and they probably weren't paying the full rate.
   113. formerly dp Posted: February 07, 2018 at 08:56 AM (#5620960)
What an absolutely boring and pointless hijack. Some good responses, but starts from a flawed premise. Figures it's zop that's responsible, never misses a chance to dickwave his privilege.
   114. formerly dp Posted: February 07, 2018 at 09:03 AM (#5620965)
And obviously I like this move at the price, but I would have preferred Nunez, all things being equal. Maybe just a concern that Frazier and Bruce are a little too similar and subject to long cold streaks.
   115. Lassus Posted: February 07, 2018 at 09:07 AM (#5620967)
Maybe just a concern that Frazier and Bruce are a little too similar and subject to long cold streaks.

If Bruce starts off like last time, my heart won't take it.
   116. formerly dp Posted: February 07, 2018 at 09:22 AM (#5620977)
This is my beef with the Bruce signing. I know it's not much money, but they were trying with no takers to unload him this time last year. It won't take much of a cliff fall for him to be valueless, and they have Conforto, Nimmo, and Cespedes in the corners beyond 2018. Obviously they still need a proper cf...but if anything Bruce magnifies that need.

Damn Lagares gets expensive in 2019.
   117. Fernigal McGunnigle Posted: February 07, 2018 at 09:30 AM (#5620983)
[104] But North Carolina isn’t near any MLB team. Depending where in NC, the closest is either the Nationals or Braves and neither is particularly close. Then again, I lived in Oregon for three years and did just fine. Missed going to baseball games, though.
North Carolina is a great baseball state. It has very good college baseball (EDIT: oh yeah, #### Oregon State for 2006 and 2007), and I remain firmly convinced that it is the best state in the Union for minor league baseball:

Asheville Tourists - South Atlantic League (A)
Burlington Indians - Appalachian League (Rookie)
Cape Fear Crocs - South Atlantic League (A)
Carolina Mudcats - Southern League (AA)
Charlotte Knights - International League (AAA)
Durham Bulls - International League (AAA)
Greensboro Grasshoppers - South Atlantic League (A)
Hickory Crawdads - South Atlantic League (A)
Kinston Indians - Carolina League (A)
Kannapolis Intimidators - South Atlantic League (A)
Wilmington Waves - South Atlantic League (A)
Winston-Salem Warthogs - Carolina League (A)

Only California, Texas, and Florida have more teams, and NY has the same number. All of those are of course much bigger states, and ten of Florida's teams are in the Rookie-level Gulf Coast League. There's baseball near you everywhere in NC. Durham especially is among the best places on the planet to see baseball (though Asheville and Burlington are my personal favorites.)
   118. manchestermets Posted: February 07, 2018 at 09:32 AM (#5620987)
What an absolutely boring and pointless hijack.


A Mets thread being hijacked. Would never have happened in the old days. Now there's a dozen non-Mets threads in the sidebar, and I'll bet not a single one has been Metsjacked. Where have you gone Sam M, a website turns its lonely eyes to you?
   119. Baldrick Posted: February 07, 2018 at 09:51 AM (#5621001)
I mean, reasonable people can disagree on how much money you need to be rich, but I don't think anyone would be calling $400K pre tax 'rich' in NYC.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
   120. jmurph Posted: February 07, 2018 at 10:00 AM (#5621009)
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

If you think that's funny, wait until, after being shown point by point why he's full of it, he eventually defined "rich in NYC" to mean, basically, rich in like one specific building that he heard about one time from a guy in the locker room at the squash club.

May this thread continue for all of eternity.
   121. jmurph Posted: February 07, 2018 at 10:14 AM (#5621020)
There is ZERO evidence that the amount of money spent per child makes any difference in educational outcome. NY City and Washington DC are perennially among the highest spending school districts per pupil, and their results are dwarfed by many, many public districts spending half as much, and inner city catholic schools spending 20% as much.

This is not the current thinking based on recent research. Here's a decent overview of some relatively recent work, particularly when it comes to spending in schools serving low-income students.

Also I'm definitely here for "large school districts often spend money inefficiently," (seriously, that shouldn't be a controversial position!) but there are also factors that complicate a straight comparison between a district like DC and, say, the Fairfax County schools in suburban Virginia. Infrastructure (decades older, less efficient, etc.) and transportation, just to name two easy ones.

   122. Blastin Posted: February 07, 2018 at 10:44 AM (#5621036)
This is not the current thinking based on recent research. Here's a decent overview of some relatively recent work, particularly when it comes to spending in schools serving low-income students.


Yeah it's definitely way more than ZERO evidence.

I don't know what the answer is. I'm an adult educator (I mean I teach adults, not that I am one, though most of the time that's true), and I am planning to start a doctorate (knock on wood) this fall, during which I hope to research such things for adult learners.

But we definitely can't say we know for sure that money is of little use.
   123. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: February 07, 2018 at 10:45 AM (#5621038)
I mean, reasonable people can disagree on how much money you need to be rich, but I don't think anyone would be calling $400K pre tax 'rich' in NYC.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL


Agree with the response. What the original comment ignores is a guaranteed 6 firgue pension, free health care for life, oh and 15 million in the bank!

edit: And why the assumption he will have only 15 mil left? If he does not get another contract, his career earnings will have been $44 mil. Even at a 50% tax rate, that's $22 mil. Is the assumption that he would have spent the bulk of the rest on a residence? Now you have a guy with a $500,000 income, free health care for life, no mortgage, and $15 mil in he bank!, retired at age 34.
   124. PreservedFish Posted: February 07, 2018 at 10:46 AM (#5621039)
There are certainly many New Yorkers that earn $400k that don't have much in the way of savings because they spend all that moolah on their mortgage, private schools etc and are now miserably trapped in golden handcuffs. So, are they "rich?" The answer to that might be: "No, but they could be."

I left the Bay Area because I didn't want that sort of thing to happen to me. I do miss the perks of living in a major cosmopolitan city, but I'm cool with it.
   125. Blastin Posted: February 07, 2018 at 10:49 AM (#5621045)
Yeah this is why we're pretty aggressive with our investments and such. There isn't a ton in our actual factual savings account, but we're doing well for the long-term future for our age and our social-services professions (education and social work). My dream was always to find a way to help New Yorkers while also not struggling, and we're doing well on both accounts. We should probably not live in our fancy building but, well, my wife wanted to be super close to the subway, so we are.
   126. jmurph Posted: February 07, 2018 at 10:51 AM (#5621049)
There are certainly many New Yorkers that earn $400k that don't have much in the way of savings because they spend all that moolah on their mortgage, private schools etc and are now miserably trapped in golden handcuffs. So, are they "rich?" The answer to that might be: "No, but they could be."

Well even then the answer is still a resounding yes. Owning goods and having access to services paid for with copious amounts of money are part of what makes one rich!
   127. PreservedFish Posted: February 07, 2018 at 10:53 AM (#5621053)
I won't argue that.
   128. . . . . . . Posted: February 07, 2018 at 11:08 AM (#5621081)
If you think that's funny, wait until, after being shown point by point why he's full of it, he eventually defined "rich in NYC" to mean, basically, rich in like one specific building that he heard about one time from a guy in the locker room at the squash club.

May this thread continue for all of eternity.


I'm not full of it. You guys just don't want to engage with the question.

The amount of money we're talking about is flatly not rich in the NYC area. NYC segregates by wealth and it has a shitload of rich people. Frazier's money doesn't move the needle in the rich towns (suburbs) or the rich neighborhoods. It is enough, TBF, to live in a high-tax town or to send his kids to private school. So if that's the cutoff for rich, sure. It's not enough to do that and fly around the world like some kind of gallivanting playboy, which I think is what people have in mind for 'athlete' rich. It makes him as rich as the lawyers and doctors. I don't see that as rich and neither does the entire NYC professional-class or upper-class. Which is like, lest you forget, a million ####### people, literally. Actually more like a million and a half.

snapper's whole catholic schtick revolves around downplaying the advantages of privilege. Oh, you can prepare yourself for Harvard. Whoopie. Of course you can. Being rich doesn't help you if your kid is smart enough and has their #### together enough at age 17 to pull themselves into ####### Harvard. Being rich is about being able to give your kid a good life if your kid ISNT that kind of 17 year old. Will Frazier be in a position to do that? Yeah, but its close. Raising a kid in NYC is hellaciously expensive.

Which brings me to the next point, the value of a good education. I bang the ####### drum on this as hard as possible because a good education was ####### ESSENTIAL to me becoming a successful adult. The problem with the education in this country is that it absolutely sucks and is as much about socialization and lowest-common-denominator, teaching-to-the-test bullshit as it is actually educating people. The skillset that thrives in school is a skillset that also works out in the world as an adult, sure, but it's not the only one. But our education system only rewards one type of student - the student with a fealty to authority and a glee for shoveling ####. Because our high school curricula are deadly and teachers are the bottom of the barrel (through no fault on their own, we systematically underpay and under-respect a difficult profession, so the people who go into it aren't qualified for work that is as hard as being a lawyer or a doctor and probably much more important).

I don't mean to disparage the guy who does well in school. That skillset is super valuable in the real world. Many of the best students from my school are absolute superstars IRL. But the ###### up part is, so are many of the shitty students too. Perhaps not as many, but if you take the A students and the B students, the A students killed it as adults maybe 50% of the time and the B students maybe 30% of the time. There's a difference but its not a gaping chasm.

So what to make of that? It's clearly a result of going to a fancy-pants school that keeps doors open if you aren't at the top of your class. Those doors close at a regular school. There is no path to a good college if you're a #### student at a ordinary school. And because of our country's credentialing fetish, becoming a successful adult from a mediocre college (or from a mediocre job, assuming you get mediocre grades at that mediocre college) is a huge lift, maybe even impossible. But with the good school . . . the doors stay open. And all of a sudden you hit age 25 and the criteria for success change. The deuchebag who never met an assignment where he couldn't cut corners to go hang out has turned into a killer entrepreneur. The girl who barely could show up to class because she was getting high every night and going to concerts ends up a very successful musician. Etc etc.

What's more, being empowered to success without following the usual rules becomes a huge advantage. All of a sudden you're the guy who 'thinks outside of the box', who 'shows leadership potential', crap like that. You were never selected for winning in a teach-to-the-Regents class room so your skillset is totally different from 90% of your colleagues. And it shows. Many, many of the people I went to school with feel the same way. It's like you were taught to play an entirely different game. ####, college was absolutely worthless for me, a total step back from high school in terms of rigor and interest.

And yes, that's privilege and yes, I'm dickwaving it. But for a reason. I think (1) if I were a pro athlete that's what I'd want for my kids, not some 5,000 sqft house in the horse country in Monmouth Co and (2) the social stigma of talking about privilege and what it actually means other than a nice car and a lie-flat seat is ###### up, and there's no reason it should be some off-the-table har-har he's said he can't live on the upper east side topic. I mean, #### it and #### you guys. You all know there's a whole world of people who live like this and work their ass off to achieve this and it seems intellectually crippled to chalk it off as "status seeking and dick waving, #### you, I could get into Harvard myself".

   129. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: February 07, 2018 at 11:11 AM (#5621086)
Yeah this is why we're pretty aggressive with our investments and such. There isn't a ton in our actual factual savings account, but we're doing well for the long-term future for our age and our social-services professions (education and social work). My dream was always to find a way to help New Yorkers while also not struggling, and we're doing well on both accounts. We should probably not live in our fancy building but, well, my wife wanted to be super close to the subway, so we are.

Just before I was born in WWII era Manhattan, my parents also lived within a block of the subway, and in a cheap rent-controlled apartment. They had the best of both worlds, but for one minor detail, which you can see by the view of their building on this postcard. (It's the red building towards the right of the picture.)
   130. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: February 07, 2018 at 11:15 AM (#5621088)
And yes, that's privilege and yes, I'm dickwaving it. But for a reason. I think (1) if I were a pro athlete that's what I'd want for my kids, not some 5,000 sqft house in the horse country in Monmouth Co and (2) the social stigma of talking about privilege and what it actually means other than a nice car and a lie-flat seat is ###### up, and there's no reason it should be some off-the-table har-har he's said he can't live on the upper east side topic. I mean, #### it and #### you guys. You all know there's a whole world of people who live like this and work their ass off to achieve this and it seems intellectually crippled to chalk it off as "status seeking and dick waving, #### you, I could get into Harvard myself".

I love it. You and the Podhoretzes could have a fascinating dinner conversation.
   131. Baldrick Posted: February 07, 2018 at 11:17 AM (#5621091)
It is enough, TBF, to live in a high-tax town or to send his kids to private school. So if that's the cutoff for rich, sure. It's not enough to do that and fly around the world like some kind of gallivanting playboy, which I think is what people have in mind for 'athlete' rich. It makes him as rich as the lawyers and doctors. I don't see that as rich and neither does the entire NYC professional-class or upper-class. Which is like, lest you forget, a million ####### people, literally. Actually more like a million and a half.

HOW ARE YOU A REAL PERSON?
   132. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 07, 2018 at 11:18 AM (#5621092)
Many of the best students from my school are absolute superstars IRL. But the ###### up part is, so are many of the shitty students too. Perhaps not as many, but if you take the A students and the B students, the A students killed it as adults maybe 50% of the time and the B students maybe 30% of the time. There's a difference but its not a gaping chasm.

That's because their parents are rich, not because of anything the school did. The screw kids of rich parents get second and third chance.

If you swapped the enrollments of the worst public HS in Detroit with the best private school in America, the former private school students would do awesome in life, and the former public school students would still struggle.

Ritzy private school kids do well becasue they have 1) good genes, and 2) rich, involved parents.

The reserach is clear on this. Harvard and Yale do nothing to improve the life outcomes of their students. If that true for them, it's true for some prep school.

Also, remember I went to multiple of these elite schools, I'm running down my own credentials.

You're just being an elitist ass.
   133. Blastin Posted: February 07, 2018 at 11:19 AM (#5621095)
They had the best of both worlds, but for one minor detail, which you can see by the view of their building on this postcard. (It's the red building towards the right of the picture.)


We live only a bit farther, farther only because we are stories up above Queensboro Plaza. That turning N/W is very loud. But the noise machine we already used before moving there works fine.

   134. PreservedFish Posted: February 07, 2018 at 11:21 AM (#5621098)
And because of our country's credentialing fetish, becoming a successful adult from a mediocre college (or from a mediocre job, assuming you get mediocre grades at that mediocre college) is a huge lift, maybe even impossible.


You and I have profoundly different definitions of "success."

I mean, #### it and #### you guys. You all know there's a whole world of people who live like this and work their ass off to achieve this and it seems intellectually crippled to chalk it off as "status seeking and dick waving, #### you, I could get into Harvard myself".


Yes, there is a world of people who live like this. Your problem is in the assumption that Todd Frazier wants to be, or should want to be, part of that world.
   135. Blastin Posted: February 07, 2018 at 11:24 AM (#5621104)
You know, as a guy who actually went to Harvard-level undergrad, this conversation is bizarre.

We are too obsessed with credentials indeed, but the credentials aren't everything. Frankly I think my education hurt me when I was scuffling in my mid-20s, because I was seen as a huge disappointment (I don't have a complex about that time period, nope, didn't have an effect on me at all....)

Anyway, you're making up these stats about the millionaires in NYC. My mom actually is a corporate lawyer, and we lived in a house way out in Brooklyn. The number of uberwealthy is not millions. There are barely a million people in Manhattan, and several hundred thousand of them live in poorer areas.

(Yes, there are some in BK heights and whatever. It's not millions. There just aren't that many people making millions of dollars.)
   136. formerly dp Posted: February 07, 2018 at 11:33 AM (#5621110)
I bang the ####### drum on this as hard as possible because a good education was ####### ESSENTIAL to me becoming a successful adult.
Is being emotionally well-adjusted part of the criteria for being a successful adult? Asking for a friend.
   137. PreservedFish Posted: February 07, 2018 at 11:39 AM (#5621114)
the social stigma of talking about privilege and what it actually means other than a nice car and a lie-flat seat is ###### up, and there's no reason it should be some off-the-table har-har he's said he can't live on the upper east side topic.


I mean, this is exactly what you said. After noting that wealth is relative with the Albania comment you went on to assume that Frazier's definition of wealth ought to be exactly the same as your own. Why? I see no justification for it.

Sorry, you deserve the har-har. We're talking about a guy that may have tens of millions in the bank and income of over $500k without lifting a finger. The proper reaction to that is "this guy's got it made!," not "what a shame, his kids will never be invited to play at Ivanka and Jared's house."
   138. . . . . . . Posted: February 07, 2018 at 11:47 AM (#5621120)

Anyway, you're making up these stats about the millionaires in NYC. My mom actually is a corporate lawyer, and we lived in a house way out in Brooklyn. The number of uberwealthy is not millions. There are barely a million people in Manhattan, and several hundred thousand of them live in poorer areas.

Not in NYC proper, but in the whole metro? Recall there are 30 million people in NYC metro. What's the 5th percentile wealth in NYC metro?

Ritzy private school kids do well becasue they have 1) good genes, and 2) rich, involved parents.

The reserach is clear on this. Harvard and Yale do nothing to improve the life outcomes of their students. If that true for them, it's true for some prep school.


Cite? What I've seen is that that the top end outcomes from Harvard and Yale (or more critically top secondary schools, since college as contemporarily constructed with minimal work and grade inflation isn't even trying to teach anything) are not that different from top end outcomes from other places, but the average outcome is different, and that's because you have a tail of bad outcomes from worse schools that is minimized in better schools. Good education insures against bad outcomes - it doesn't create better ones.
   139. jmurph Posted: February 07, 2018 at 11:50 AM (#5621123)
I'm not full of it. You guys just don't want to engage with the question.

No you're just wrong on the merits, you've got your numbers wrong. You said a dumb thing very early on about half a million a year not being a lot of money in NYC (and for the millionth time, that doesn't even include the goddamned pension and health care and future earnings!) and you then vomited over the rest of the page in an attempt to justify the dumb thing you said. But you were wrong about that initially, and you remain wrong about that now.

I'm not even addressing the other stuff, I just think it's hilarious that the guy that is most strident about his positions in this thread seems to have no ####### clue what he's talking about.
   140. PreservedFish Posted: February 07, 2018 at 11:53 AM (#5621125)
but the average outcome is different, and that's because you have a tail of bad outcomes from worse schools that is minimized in better schools. Good education insures against bad outcomes - it doesn't create better ones.


Is this because top secondary schools cut the bottom of the class? My high school did that. Every year a few kids would end up at a lesser school, either because of grades or behavioral issues. There are entire schools that are basically just "rich kid #### up" schools. There's a private school of this sort near me in Maine, for the kids that need 24 hour babysitting, presumably. Wonder what their outcomes are.
   141. jmurph Posted: February 07, 2018 at 11:55 AM (#5621129)
Not in NYC proper, but in the whole metro? Recall there are 30 million people in NYC metro. What's the 5th percentile wealth in NYC metro?

95th percentile for household income in the NY metro is 250K ish. The mean of that top 5% is $472K.

Frazier's passive income (from investments!) in the most conservative estimate of his career earnings places him above the mean of the top 5% for household earnings.
   142. JC in DC Posted: February 07, 2018 at 11:56 AM (#5621130)
I just think it's hilarious that the guy that is most strident about his positions in this thread seems to have no ####### clue what he's talking about


I think this is the BBTF motto, so I'm not sure why you find this funny.
   143. jmurph Posted: February 07, 2018 at 11:57 AM (#5621133)
Ha, fair point JC.
   144. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: February 07, 2018 at 11:57 AM (#5621134)
The revolution is going to be so much fun to watch.
   145. Blastin Posted: February 07, 2018 at 11:58 AM (#5621135)
I dunno, this is a few years old, but even in just the city, only 7% of households were making more than 200k.

Not in NYC proper, but in the whole metro? Recall there are 30 million people in NYC metro. What's the 5th percentile wealth in NYC metro?


So, in 2014 at least, the 94th (that's not how percentiles work) percentile was 200k in the city. If you want to include the entire metro, you'll also be including tons of poorer areas like Bridgeport and Paterson and what have you. You get a Greenwich but you also get a Newark. And it's not 30 million, another number you made up. It's somewhere around 23, and that's if you go all the way up to New Haven.

Stop throwing numbers around wildly. You can make your general point without them.

Coke to jmuprh for the stats coming in earlier. My links will help too.
   146. jmurph Posted: February 07, 2018 at 12:02 PM (#5621140)
Coke to jmuprh for the stats coming in earlier. My links will help too.

I find it more entertaining to not include the links, so Zop can sit in his chair and look at Thad on the bond desk like, Thad and Buffy bring home 7 figures, and they seem middle class, so that must be the median income?

EDIT: I fully cop to being a raging ass right now, and I'll try not to carry that to other threads, but this is just, like, the kind of glorious distillation of elite cluelessness that gets me going.
   147. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: February 07, 2018 at 12:03 PM (#5621142)
There is a huge propensity by some people in this country to proclaim that the rich aren't rich, because there is someone else more rich.
   148. Blastin Posted: February 07, 2018 at 12:04 PM (#5621144)
Yeah I honestly included the links because I was curious what the numbers were.

There isn't a single "30 million metro" city on this side of the planet, though. Populations I know. (I was surprised that Shanghai has risen so much, but I shouldn't be. I should have gone there when I lived in Asia, but I only had a few days and I wanted to see the wall, so Beijing it was)
   149. PreservedFish Posted: February 07, 2018 at 12:12 PM (#5621152)
There is a huge propensity by some people in this country to proclaim that the rich aren't rich, because there is someone else more rich.


That is also my reading of this.
   150. JC in DC Posted: February 07, 2018 at 12:13 PM (#5621154)
The guy is making $17mil/2 years. That's good money. He's not Jeff Bezos. We know that. But $17mil/2 years is more than he ever thought he'd make when he first decided he wanted to play ball. I'm sure he counts himself blessed.
   151. jmurph Posted: February 07, 2018 at 12:19 PM (#5621159)
There is a huge propensity by some people in this country to proclaim that the rich aren't rich, because there is someone else more rich.

My dad (probably like 90ish percentile in household income where he lives) and I were discussing the tax changes a while ago, including the proposed changes to the mortgage interest deduction (the proposal at the time capped it at 500K I think and eliminated it on 2nd, 3rd, etc. mortagages) and he was like "what about the working guy who owns a 2nd home as a rental property, just trying to make a living?" and I was like "that's not a thing! That applies to almost no one!" Most people don't even itemize for crying out loud. Lots of people are very confused about relative wealth.

(I don't mean that literally, obviously a few million people do indeed own second homes as investment properties.)
   152. PreservedFish Posted: February 07, 2018 at 12:30 PM (#5621172)
Don't get me wrong, I love money. Money is fantastic. It's like the fourth or fifth most important thing in life.
   153. manchestermets Posted: February 07, 2018 at 02:16 PM (#5621260)
So what to make of that? It's clearly a result of going to a fancy-pants school that keeps doors open if you aren't at the top of your class. Those doors close at a regular school. There is no path to a good college if you're a #### student at a ordinary school. And because of our country's credentialing fetish, becoming a successful adult from a mediocre college (or from a mediocre job, assuming you get mediocre grades at that mediocre college) is a huge lift, maybe even impossible. But with the good school . . . the doors stay open.


What you're describing here is an old boys club. It is not, in any sense, "a good education".

[The private schools in question may very well provide a good education of course, but that isn't the benefit of them that you're describing.]

[Also, when you said earlier that you can't live the high life in London for $500k a year, you were talking bs there too but everybody else has covered that.]
   154. Rally Posted: February 07, 2018 at 02:27 PM (#5621266)
Anyway, you're making up these stats about the millionaires in NYC. My mom actually is a corporate lawyer, and we lived in a house way out in Brooklyn. The number of uberwealthy is not millions. There are barely a million people in Manhattan, and several hundred thousand of them live in poorer areas.


My guess is the categories of inhabitants is something like this:

Uber-wealthy

older middle class people who have been there a long time and either bought cheap or live in rent control apts

younger middle class people who could have a nice house in a cheaper area, but choose to share a 300 sq foot studio with two roommates

poor getting public assistance

   155. Swoboda is freedom Posted: February 07, 2018 at 02:47 PM (#5621289)
Don't get me wrong, I love money. Money is fantastic. It's like the fourth or fifth most important thing in life.

I would say third. My wife and kids are 4 and 5. ;)
   156. Walt Davis Posted: February 07, 2018 at 03:43 PM (#5621342)
The guy who owns the investment property is (hopefully) declaring that as business income and probably bringing in less rent than the mortgage interest, maintenance, etc. costs and deducting his business loss. If he gets whacked, it will be when he sells the property.
   157. Blastin Posted: February 07, 2018 at 04:05 PM (#5621360)
My guess is the categories of inhabitants is something like this:

Uber-wealthy

older middle class people who have been there a long time and either bought cheap or live in rent control apts

younger middle class people who could have a nice house in a cheaper area, but choose to share a 300 sq foot studio with two roommates

poor getting public assistance


I would add a class between middle and uber-wealthy. Professional, below "elite." I'm in that group. Top 10% in household income and no kids in an expensive neighborhood but we certainly won't have the money to buy for a while.
   158. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: February 07, 2018 at 04:22 PM (#5621379)
What you're describing here is an old boys club. It is not, in any sense, "a good education".

[The private schools in question may very well provide a good education of course, but that isn't the benefit of them that you're describing.]


Well, if you want to get appointed to the Supreme Court, it sure doesn't hurt to have gone to Harvard or Yale Law School. 6 of the current Justices went to Harvard, and 3 went to Yale. Somehow I suspect that the quality of those law schools isn't the entire explanation for this.
   159. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: February 07, 2018 at 05:12 PM (#5621426)
The guy who owns the investment property is (hopefully) declaring that as business income and probably bringing in less rent than the mortgage interest, maintenance, etc. costs and deducting his business loss.


Is that somehow better than actually making money off your rental?
   160. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: February 07, 2018 at 05:23 PM (#5621432)
The guy who owns the investment property is (hopefully) declaring that as business income and probably bringing in less rent than the mortgage interest, maintenance, etc. costs and deducting his business loss.


Is that somehow better than actually making money off your rental?


I think the point is, the deduction for mortgage interest is not capped for business property.
   161. Zach Posted: February 07, 2018 at 06:29 PM (#5621506)
But making matters worse, all the stuff he showed was horribly tacky meaning the "real" rich had to out-do all of that and in a classy way.

I will put in a word for snobs here. If every single activity you enjoy and every single possession you own has to signal that you have more money than other people, you might be a little tacky.
   162. Zach Posted: February 07, 2018 at 06:29 PM (#5621507)
Then again, you might be President.

(Not an OTP comment! Just a joke! Please do not start a flame war!)
   163. Zach Posted: February 07, 2018 at 06:46 PM (#5621519)
There are certainly many New Yorkers that earn $400k that don't have much in the way of savings because they spend all that moolah on their mortgage, private schools etc and are now miserably trapped in golden handcuffs. So, are they "rich?" The answer to that might be: "No, but they could be."

This is the plot to The Bonfire of the Vanities.
   164. Endless Trash Posted: February 08, 2018 at 12:11 AM (#5621647)
This thread has been a fascinating perspective into the bizarre demographic that bbtf has cultivated.

By the way, the us median household income is $59,039. No, there are no missing digits. There are only five of them. Five! And that is household income not personal income.

I guess everyone below that mark should pretty much just kill themselves, based on this thread.
   165. Tin Angel Posted: February 08, 2018 at 01:05 AM (#5621652)
I guess everyone below that mark should pretty much just kill themselves, based on this thread.


That's a bit much. They should just devote their lives to serving the top 5%.
   166. Ben Broussard Ramjet Posted: February 08, 2018 at 05:15 AM (#5621659)
Lots of people are very confused about relative wealth.


Yes. Because for a lot of people, "rich" = "I no longer have to worry about money." And almost everyone worries about money, no matter how much they have.
   167. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: February 08, 2018 at 08:37 AM (#5621685)

If you swapped the enrollments of the worst public HS in Detroit with the best private school in America, the former private school students would do awesome in life, and the former public school students would still struggle.
I'm pretty sure I saw a documentary about this..
   168. bookbook Posted: February 08, 2018 at 08:50 AM (#5621689)
By the time you get to high school, it’s too late. The advantages that my children and their friends enjoy are so massive, from literate adults who engage with them, to books and food security, to safe streets and lower stress, that by the time the kids are 5 many of the preferential advantages are baked in for life.
   169. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: February 08, 2018 at 09:25 AM (#5621695)
I guess everyone below that mark should pretty much just kill themselves, based on this thread.

That's a bit much. They should just devote their lives to serving the top 5%.


Well not their entire lives. If I need a spare organ I only need the untermenschen to serve me for a few months, really. They're free to go about their profligate ways after that, blowing their money on refrigerators and ceiling fans and whatever luxuries they amuse themselves with.
   170. Omineca Greg Posted: February 08, 2018 at 12:49 PM (#5621907)
Just yesterday I was at Walmart, and I picked up a can of corned beef. I was glad to see it was French, there's a picture of a Maine-Anjou on the packaging, and although there's no guarantee that's the kind of cow that's in the can, I don't see why they would lie (although I understand a beautiful single cow standing alone in a lush green pasture with a red barn dotting the horizon isn't the most usual experience for cattle, you know that the artist is going to take some licence with reality, I don't find anything untoward about that). Anyway, I try to get all my canned meats from the Pays de la Loire, Nantes is just lovely BTW, and the soil, oh, when you have a nice bottle of Pouilly-Fume, you can tell that if the land wasn't a vineyard, it would make for excellent pasture.

Now, like you guys, I never worry about money. When you're a high roller like me, you lay down the extra 49 cents when you see a nice can of corned beef. Great Value in my experience normally doesn't offer a "great value", it's just Walmart's way of saying, "Oh, Hoi polloi? Come here plebes! This is the shitty product for you. So you can have more money for rolling papers and not have to use newsprint like a ул. Петербургская шлюха." That's quite a few foreign words that most Walmart clients wouldn't really understand (not being elitist, just pointing out Walmart shoppers suck), so Walmart wisely just went with "Great Value".

I sensed an opportunity to share my find with the sophisticates of BBTF, because to be honest most Ominecans don't give a #### and would eat anything they can shoot (which explains the lack of Maine-Anjou ranches within easy driving distance of town), and it feels so good to finally be among my social peers.

I just made my wife breakfast in bed, and used the chance to offer her some of France's finest beef mixed in with hash browns. Oh la la. I think some of the sex moves she used on me last night may have originated in France, so we're keeping with a theme). I've been glad to be able to give you this advice, and I don't want to leave it incomplete, so I'll suggest a beverage pairing. Wine for breakfast may be fine for Gothamites like Lou Reed...

Wine in the mornin', and some breakfast at night.
Well, I'm beginning to see the light.

Here we go again, playing the fool again.
Here we go again, acting hard again.

Some people work very hard,
but still they never get it right.
Well, I'm beginning to see the light.


...but him and Laurie were just so West Eleventh, even if their place in the Hamptons was only three bedrooms (on his passing I hear he was only worth about 35 million, which explains his constant angst, if I had to live like that, I would have recorded Metal Machine Music too). I digress, in the Omineca, I know, I know, it's life in the provinces, but wine for breakfast would be socially frowned upon.

For breakfast here, we drink beer.

I know a lot of people have trouble picking a good breakfast brew (not Rudie, that guy, despite being crude and feckless, that guy can't fail). People always go with a heavy adjunct lager, you know trying to bring out the corn flavour in the corn flakes (which are just wonderful in pancakes I hear) by drinking Miller, or tying the congee together with Bud. I don't want to tell you what to do, but I like to work counter to that. Maybe a nice Radler or Fruli, the sweet tang is a real eye-opener, it's the best way to get the day started.

Godspeed, BBTFers! I have to go shovel the drive. I could easily afford to hire somebody to do it, but I like to do manual work to keep in touch with my earthy ancestors. If they could clear 640 acres of Albertan prairie using nothing but a two mule team, shovelling the drive is pretty much the same as that I would think. Plus it will give me a chance to clear those Radlers out of my head before I go to work (don't be shocked, I just do it for fun you know)

   171. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: February 08, 2018 at 01:43 PM (#5621985)
I know a lot of people have trouble picking a good breakfast brew (not Rudie, that guy, despite being crude and feckless, that guy can't fail). People always go with a heavy adjunct lager, you know trying to bring out the corn flavour in the corn flakes (which are just wonderful in pancakes I hear) by drinking Miller, or tying the congee together with Bud. I don't want to tell you what to do, but I like to work counter to that. Maybe a nice Radler or Fruli, the sweet tang is a real eye-opener, it's the best way to get the day started.

BITD my surefire starting method was an 8 oz bloody hamburger and a 16 oz RC Cola, all lovingly served by my Mom before she went to work and I got on the bus for school. Moms are the best, but I don't think she would've gone for serving me up the suds.
   172. Omineca Greg Posted: February 08, 2018 at 02:32 PM (#5622057)
BITD my surefire starting method was an 8 oz bloody hamburger and a 16 oz RC Cola, all lovingly served by my Mom before she went to work and I got on the bus for school

My Dad would always make us porridge every morning. His porridge was chock full of nutritional goodness, wheat germ and flax and bran...which meant it tasted really bad. I remember the first time I had regular oatmeal, "Grandpa, Grandpa [my Mom's father] this porridge tastes so good. What is it?" and then he laughed and laughed, probably wondering how the loser his daughter married could screw up something as simple as porridge.

After my Dad left for work, my brother and I had two totally divergent strategies for eliminating the offending porridge.

I took it completely plain. No milk, no sugar, no fruit, no anything. That way I could reduce the volume of disgusting porridge to the absolute minimum, and even if I suffered mightily for about 20 seconds (no seriously, to the point of gagging), at least it was over quickly. Every day.

My brother waited nonchalantly for the car to clear the driveway, and then he would walk to the bathroom and flush the super healthy porridge down the toilet. Then on the way to school, he'd stop in at the grocery store and steal a couple of chocolate bars. Every day.

So I guess everything worked out in the end.
   173. Hysterical & Useless Posted: February 08, 2018 at 03:22 PM (#5622136)
corn flakes (which are just wonderful in pancakes I hear)



Thanks! :-)
   174. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: February 08, 2018 at 03:48 PM (#5622163)
I know a lot of people have trouble picking a good breakfast brew


Founder's Breakfast Stout

A no-brainer.
   175. BrianBrianson Posted: February 08, 2018 at 04:42 PM (#5622207)
By the way, the us median household income is $59,039. No, there are no missing digits. There are only five of them. Five! And that is household income not personal income.

I guess everyone below that mark should pretty much just kill themselves, based on this thread.


Can someone lend me ~$700? Think of my son!
   176. dlf Posted: February 08, 2018 at 05:11 PM (#5622235)
Well, if you want to get appointed to the Supreme Court, it sure doesn't hurt to have gone to Harvard or Yale Law School. 6 of the current Justices went to Harvard, and 3 went to Yale. Somehow I suspect that the quality of those law schools isn't the entire explanation for this.


Pedantry alert: While this is technically correct, Ginsburg started at HLS but did not graduate from either, having transferred to Columbia where she graduated first in her class. Her undergrad degree, likewise, was not from the Crimson or Eli, but rather that cow college in Ithaca.

   177. BDC Posted: February 08, 2018 at 05:33 PM (#5622253)
a good breakfast brew

Martin House Day Break is the preferred Texas option.
   178. . . . . . . Posted: February 08, 2018 at 05:59 PM (#5622274)
Pedantry alert: While this is technically correct, Ginsburg started at HLS but did not graduate from either, having transferred to Columbia where she graduated first in her class. Her undergrad degree, likewise, was not from the Crimson or Eli, but rather that cow college in Ithaca.


But, IIRC, only transferred for her last year because her husband (also a legal giant, the late Martin Ginsburg) had moved to NYC to work. It always struck me as odd that CLS clung to RBG so tightly as an alumna; she's barely so. Per modern custom her degree would have been granted by Harvard.
   179. Adam Starblind Posted: February 08, 2018 at 09:03 PM (#5622330)
The guy who owns the investment property is (hopefully) declaring that as business income and probably bringing in less rent than the mortgage interest, maintenance, etc. costs and deducting his business loss.


This is wrong. The loss you're describing comes out of his pocket. What you want is the depreciation to exceed any profit you make from rent. That way you pocket the rent, but report a loss because the property depreciates, and pay no tax until you sell it.
   180. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: February 08, 2018 at 09:33 PM (#5622342)

My Dad would always make us porridge every morning. His porridge was chock full of nutritional goodness, wheat germ and flax and bran...which meant it tasted really bad.

When misplaced Southern politeness once had me eating grits in the cafeteria for a few weeks, I quickly discovered that even grits can taste okay if you drown them with butter and sugar.
   181. Omineca Greg Posted: February 09, 2018 at 01:59 AM (#5622398)
Are you guys alcoholics?

At least nobody suggested this...

“At first glance, this Seelbach Cocktail appears to be a whiskey cocktail, but it’s the first cousin of the classic Champagne Cocktail,” explains Kent Westmoreland, head mixologist at Windsor Court in New Orleans. “It’s spicy and effervescent, with herbal and floral notes bubbling over the rye. All of these qualities make it a satisfying addition to brunch.”

This is actually a fantastic drink. I've never had it for breakfast, er...sorry "brunch" [if you're drinking before noon, own it!] but it is delicious. Any drink that uses sparking wine for a mixer gets the party started in a hurry.

1 oz. Knob Creek Rye or other rye whiskey (obviously, I use Canadian whisky)
½ oz. Cointreau orange liqueur
7 dashes Angostura bitters
7 dashes Peychaud’s bitters
3 oz. chilled sparkling wine
Garnish: orange twist

I like grits...the few times I've had them (Ominecans don't get to the South as often as we should).
   182. McCoy Posted: February 09, 2018 at 08:19 AM (#5622415)
I have it on the menu here but I'm not a fan of it.
   183. Omineca Greg Posted: February 09, 2018 at 10:13 AM (#5622463)
Too much bitters?
   184. Don August(us) Cesar Geronimo Berroa Posted: February 09, 2018 at 12:40 PM (#5622570)
I like grits...the few times I've had them (Ominecans don't get to the South as often as we should)


From the Omineca, isn't basically everything "the South"?

And, grits can be absolutely delicious.
   185. BDC Posted: February 09, 2018 at 12:54 PM (#5622588)
Yes – I am not sure about putting sugar on grits, but cheese, garlic, shrimp, and lots of other savory items are fantastic.
   186. Omineca Greg Posted: February 09, 2018 at 01:08 PM (#5622602)
From the Omineca, isn't basically everything "the South"?

In North America, yeah. But we're about the same latitude as København and Belfast. The expression, "Changes in Latitude, Changes in Attitude" (meaning people from "the South" need to chillax a little bit) gets a mention here from time to time.

I'd forgotten about Shrimp and Grits, that's good food right there

This is an interesting article about how Shrimp and Grits, which are apparently a Lowcountry thing, became more widespread.To keep it on topic (not the original topic, the ship has sailed on that a long time ago), but the next topic, from the article.

The recently closed Peel's in Manhattan served shrimp and grits with tasso bacon and jalapenos for a whopping $26.50
   187. . . . . . . Posted: February 09, 2018 at 01:44 PM (#5622640)
“Low country”:Gullah::Beach Boys:Chuck Berry
   188. Omineca Greg Posted: February 09, 2018 at 02:08 PM (#5622674)
Oh, it was enough to make me cry. It took 26 years to translate the New Testament into Gullah, and only ten months to do the entire Bible into lolcat. What kind of culture are we going to end up with? Where the only things that survive had to have made the Top 50 on Alexa. Here, check it out...

Ef oona lob oda people, oona gwine beah wid um. Oona gwine be kind ta um. Oona ain gwine all de time wahn wa dey got, an oona ain gwine brag on oonasef an be oppity.
Ef oona lob people, oona gwine be manisable all de time an oona ain gwine wahn ya own way. Oona ain gwine git bex, an oona ain gwine keep ting een oona haat ginst oda people wa do oona wrong.
Ef oona lob oda people, oona ain gwine rejaice oba no ebil ting, bot oona gwine rejaice oba wa true.
Ef oona lob people, oona gwine beah op onda ebryting wa people do ta oona. Oona gwine be ready fa bleebe good ting bout people. Oona gwine hope fa de betta bout um, an oona gwine pit op wid people an lob um eben wen oona da suffa.

Luv is pashient n kind, luv haz no jelusniss or showin offz, luv no is stuck-up
or r00dz. Luv no insistzes on doin it 4 itzelf, itz not pisst off alla tiem or rezentflufflele
Luv izzn all happiez about doin it wrong, but is happiez about teh truthz
Luv putz up wiht all teh stuffz, beelivez all teh stuffz, hoepz for all teh stuffz. Luv putz up wiht all teh stuffz... i sed that areddy?

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.
It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.
Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.
It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
   189. BDC Posted: February 09, 2018 at 02:43 PM (#5622700)
But the Bible has to be translated into all tongues, including lolcat, in order for the end times to come. This suggests we can avoid the end times by inventing new languages, but it's going to be a race. Much of the Bible is already available in emoji, Klingon, and Lego.
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