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Friday, August 10, 2018

Mets reportedly leaning toward hiring old-school GM, worried about being too ‘analytics driven’

Unfortunately for Mets fans this isn’t a redirect to The Onion.

Jim Furtado Posted: August 10, 2018 at 07:16 PM | 43 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: mets

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Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. Man o' Schwar Posted: August 10, 2018 at 08:36 PM (#5724965)
They don't want to worry about having to print playoff tickets every year.
   2. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: August 10, 2018 at 09:18 PM (#5724979)
I'd be surprised if Ruben Amaro Jr. isn't already camped outside of Citi Field.
   3. JJ1986 Posted: August 10, 2018 at 10:18 PM (#5724997)
I don't see why they wouldn't hire Howard Megdal.
   4. Zonk was SHOCKED by #6! Posted: August 10, 2018 at 10:18 PM (#5724998)
I'd be surprised if Ruben Amaro Jr. isn't already camped outside of Citi Field.


Ya know, Jay Bruce is due for a pointless and above-market-rate extension...
   5. The Yankee Clapper Posted: August 10, 2018 at 10:20 PM (#5724999)
Dan Duquette could be available.
   6. Lassus Posted: August 10, 2018 at 10:23 PM (#5725001)
"Losing.... is a disease..."
   7. Zonk was SHOCKED by #6! Posted: August 10, 2018 at 10:26 PM (#5725002)
"Oh boy! That's where I'm a Viking!"

-Dave Littlefield
   8. Howie Menckel Posted: August 10, 2018 at 10:36 PM (#5725007)
I don't see why they wouldn't hire Howard Megdal.

or Howie Menckel.

and per post 4, is it well known that Ruben Amaro Jr is now the Mets first base coach?

I wish I was making that up.
   9. QLE Posted: August 10, 2018 at 11:14 PM (#5725025)
I'd take the job- but I have a feeling my plans for it would probably get me in deep trouble if they ever figured out what they actually were.....
   10. PreservedFish Posted: August 10, 2018 at 11:42 PM (#5725041)
All they care about is getting a guy that, like Alderson, doesn't give a #### about the Mets being a mid-market team that intends to tread water at the "near .500" level indefinitely.
   11. Stormy JE Posted: August 11, 2018 at 07:42 AM (#5725071)
I don't see why they wouldn't hire Howard Megdal.
Mets fans have suffered enough. We don't need the roster populated with WNBA rejects.
   12. McCoy Posted: August 11, 2018 at 07:55 AM (#5725074)
Why would the GM care about a label like mid market? There is maybe, what, two people in the world that could care about what label is used on their team. Cashman and Epstein.
   13. 'Spos Posted: August 11, 2018 at 08:04 AM (#5725076)
Howie Mandel is still available.
   14. PreservedFish Posted: August 11, 2018 at 09:35 AM (#5725101)
#12 - the second half of the sentence was also important. Of course there are only so many GM jobs and many candidates would be quite pleased to accept an offer from a mid-market team. But a really prime candidate might be put off my an owner that apparently has zero interest in either rebuilding or in spending enough to pull the team out of its crapulence.
   15. McCoy Posted: August 11, 2018 at 09:39 AM (#5725102)
So you think the owners are telling potential candidates that they can't win more than 83 games in a season?
   16. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: August 11, 2018 at 10:38 AM (#5725111)
They don't want to worry about having to print playoff tickets every year.

It's not like that they have had that problem with analytically-inclined staff.
   17. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: August 11, 2018 at 10:43 AM (#5725114)
As I said in the other thread......

There is thought among team officials that perhaps the Mets became too analytics driven in recent seasons under Sandy Alderson’s watch,

culminating in winning the National League pennant in 2015.

#lolmets
   18. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: August 11, 2018 at 12:33 PM (#5725131)
and per post 4, is it well known that Ruben Amaro Jr is now the Mets first base coach?
Ha! I actually didn’t know that. I guess he doesn’t even have to camp out in that case.
   19. Curtschillingsdingleberrybatboy Posted: August 11, 2018 at 03:00 PM (#5725154)
A quote from Jeff Wilpon:
“It was hard for me under Sandy because I couldn’t win any arguments. We’d be arguing about a player and he’d pull out some chart with all these numbers in it. That would be it. Case closed. Whenever I’d even mention intangibles, he’d get this scary look on his face. But dad said that since we got to the World Series, we can hire whoever we want and that the next GM would be old-school! That means, INTANGIBLES ARE BACK!!”
   20. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: August 11, 2018 at 03:17 PM (#5725157)
Dallas Green is always available (well...)
   21. The Yankee Clapper Posted: August 11, 2018 at 06:25 PM (#5725203)
This should warm the cockles of old-school hearts everywhere - David Wright To Begin Rehab Assignment:
In a rare piece of encouraging news for the woebegone Mets, the team announced that injured third baseman David Wright will begin a rehab assignment on Sunday, when he’ll play five innings for the club’s Class-A affiliate in St. Lucie. It’s not clear whether the 35-year-old Wright has a real chance to return this season, but if he does come back, it would be one of the greatest triumphs of the 2018 campaign. After all, a laundry list of upper body injuries limited Wright to just 75 appearances from 2015-16 and have completely kept him out of MLB action over the past couple years. The seven-time All-Star hasn’t appeared in a major league game since May 27, 2016, or a minor league contest since Aug. 26, 2017.

Not to be pessimistic, but you might need to book a flight to St. Lucie to be guaranteed seeing Wright on the field this season.
   22. Chip Posted: August 12, 2018 at 02:39 PM (#5725373)
Re-posting from the weekend game chatter, since it’s relevant:

MASN Orioles broadcast puts up a NY Post quote about the Mets possibly moving away from analytics focus in their next GM hire. Mike Bordick and Gary Thorne decide they need to defend Sandy Anderson - SANDY ALDERSON - from those evil pocket protector never-played-the-game losers:

Bordick: “I can’t ever see him using analytics over raw judgment, and just what you see in a player.”

Thorne, forcefully: “I don’t think he did. I think the analytics thing was forced on him [!?!?!?!] by the upper echelons of the the organization. I think they went out and hired all these analytics people because everyone else was doing it.”

Those Moneyball-obsessed Wilpons, forcing Alderson against his will to stare at spreadsheets all day long.
   23. Leroy Kincaid Posted: August 12, 2018 at 03:13 PM (#5725398)
H.L. Mencken probably isn't available.
   24. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: August 12, 2018 at 03:17 PM (#5725400)
“It was hard for me under Sandy because I couldn’t win any arguments. We’d be arguing about a player and he’d pull out some chart with all these numbers in it. That would be it. Case closed. Whenever I’d even mention intangibles, he’d get this scary look on his face. But dad said that since we got to the World Series, we can hire whoever we want and that the next GM would be old-school! That means, INTANGIBLES ARE BACK!!”
Wow. Mets fans, you have my sympathies. That's terrifying.
   25. Stormy JE Posted: August 12, 2018 at 03:32 PM (#5725402)
Those Moneyball-obsessed Wilpons, forcing Alderson against his will to stare at spreadsheets all day long.
It must be awfully nice for Orioles fans to have a broadcast team about as talented as the club's on-field product.
   26. Walt Davis Posted: August 12, 2018 at 05:53 PM (#5725441)
Actually Gary Thorne has always been one of my fave play-by-play guys but yes, he has an old-school streak ... or at least a "talk favorably about this baseball old-timer" streak.

I don't know how often Jon Miller shows up for work these days but he was always good. Palmer is one of the best old-time color guys. The O's are doing just fine on the broadcast front. If I've heard Bordick, he hasn't registered other than "not Palmer."
   27. Stormy JE Posted: August 12, 2018 at 06:02 PM (#5725444)
Actually Gary Thorne has always been one of my fave play-by-play guys but yes, he has an old-school streak ... or at least a "talk favorably about this baseball old-timer" streak.
Thorne's employment of statistics during a telecast is pretty much limited to home runs, runs batted in, and how the Orioles are hitting with runners in scoring position.

Sorry, he should have stuck to hockey.
   28. cardsfanboy Posted: August 12, 2018 at 06:57 PM (#5725460)
“It was hard for me under Sandy because I couldn’t win any arguments. We’d be arguing about a player and he’d pull out some chart with all these numbers in it. That would be it. Case closed. Whenever I’d even mention intangibles, he’d get this scary look on his face. But dad said that since we got to the World Series, we can hire whoever we want and that the next GM would be old-school! That means, INTANGIBLES ARE BACK!!”
Wow. Mets fans, you have my sympathies. That's terrifying.


I'm fairly certain the post you were quoting was being sarcastic and not an actual quote from Wilpon.

The Wilpons have been pretty cordial about Alderson leaving.
   29. SoSH U at work Posted: August 12, 2018 at 07:24 PM (#5725463)
You don’t have to be conversant in advanced metrics to be a good PBP guy. It’s nice if a guy is, but it’s just one aspect of the job.
   30. Chip Posted: August 12, 2018 at 08:34 PM (#5725467)
I don't know how often Jon Miller shows up for work these days but he was always good.


The Giants have enough quality PBP talent that none of the Big Three of Miller, Kuiper, or Dave Flemming does a full 162 - they each take some mid-season vacation time - but Miller is still effectively full-time, as the lead on the radio, as well as the handful of over-the-air TV games they have in their package (Kuiper has long been the lead PBP voice on the bulk of the TV games on the cable network.)
   31. Stormy JE Posted: August 12, 2018 at 09:09 PM (#5725479)
You don’t have to be conversant in advanced metrics to be a good PBP guy. It’s nice if a guy is, but it’s just one aspect of the job.
The difference of course is that Gary Cohen doesn't talk out of his ass.
   32. Chip Posted: August 12, 2018 at 09:23 PM (#5725487)
The difference of course is that Gary Cohen doesn't talk out of his ass.


Right, this wasn’t merely refusal to adapt to advanced stats - this was speaking authoritatively as if he were an intimate of Alderson, and in the process demonstrating gross ignorance of Alderson’s history.
   33. SoSH U at work Posted: August 12, 2018 at 10:23 PM (#5725503)
Right, this wasn’t merely refusal to adapt to advanced stats - this was speaking authoritatively as if he were an intimate of Alderson, and in the process demonstrating gross ignorance of Alderson’s history.


Sure, he doesn't come across well in that exchange. But Jason went well beyond criticizing that exchange, including a remark on his familiarity with advanced stats and a bizarre comparison to an unrelated announcer.
   34. Lassus Posted: August 13, 2018 at 08:33 AM (#5725574)
I'm not super-demanding when it comes to announcers (I don't think), and I always liked Thorne and actually Seaver as well. I basically require that they not be stupid, and "not a SABR guy" =/= "stupid". YMMV, I mean, there's definitely a judgment line there when it comes to specifics, but Thorne was never a blowhard idiot dipshit like a Brennaman or a Hudler.
   35. Stormy JE Posted: August 13, 2018 at 09:16 AM (#5725580)
Sure, he doesn't come across well in that exchange. But Jason went well beyond criticizing that exchange, including a remark on his familiarity with advanced stats and a bizarre comparison to an unrelated announcer.
I'll try to be even clearer, SoSH: It's pretty painful to listen to Gary Thorne (EDIT: although I agree with Lassus that he's no Thom Brennaman), whether he's offering an opinion on analytics or describing a bloop single to right.
   36. SoSH U at work Posted: August 13, 2018 at 09:21 AM (#5725584)
I'll try to be even clearer, SoSH: It's pretty painful to listen to Gary Thorne (EDIT: although I agree with Lassus that he's no Thom Brennaman), whether he's offering an opinion on analytics or describing a bloop single to right.


Your opinion seems to be in the minority Jason, given where the Orioles ranked (and routinely rank) in that just-released broadcast rankings. And, like Walt and Lassus, I don't share that opinion on Thorne. I always thought he was pretty solid.
   37. Stormy JE Posted: August 13, 2018 at 09:26 AM (#5725588)
Your opinion seems to be in the minority Jason,
I'll live.
   38. Lassus Posted: August 13, 2018 at 09:32 AM (#5725590)
And professional speaking is a skill. Thorne's voice seems like it could etch bronze on occasion.
   39. Petunia inquires about ponies Posted: August 13, 2018 at 02:17 PM (#5725839)
Ooh, if we're talking about broadcasters' voices, I need to share an observation - a couple weeks ago, I guess MLB Extra Innings was doing a promo on XFINITY, because I got the Red Sox game for free every day for a while. It happened when they were in Detroit, so I guess what they provide is the home team's TV feed? Anyway, I learned that Kirk Gibson is literally unlistenable. Content-wise, he's pretty aggressively mediocre, but, his voice - somehow incredibly squeaky and nasal at the same time, for the first couple of hours I wasn't even sure it was him, to hear that voice come out of a dude that big. Midway into the second game I couldn't take it any more. Anybody here ever watch the Tigers on TV? Is he the everyday color guy? Can you even stand it?
   40. SoSH U at work Posted: August 13, 2018 at 03:20 PM (#5725879)
Content-wise, he's pretty aggressively mediocre, but, his voice - somehow incredibly squeaky and nasal at the same time, for the first couple of hours I wasn't even sure it was him, to hear that voice come out of a dude that big.


I heard him a couple of days in a row, and while I didn't find him unlistenable, I agree it was hard to match the voice with that body/persona.
   41. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: August 13, 2018 at 03:53 PM (#5725896)
Content-wise, he's pretty aggressively mediocre, but, his voice - somehow incredibly squeaky and nasal at the same time, for the first couple of hours I wasn't even sure it was him, to hear that voice come out of a dude that big.


I remember being struck by this when I first saw his postgame interview after his famous 1988 World Series home run.
   42. The Yankee Clapper Posted: August 13, 2018 at 04:26 PM (#5725914)
Content-wise, he's pretty aggressively mediocre, but, his voice - somehow incredibly squeaky and nasal at the same time, for the first couple of hours I wasn't even sure it was him, to hear that voice come out of a dude that big. Midway into the second game I couldn't take it any more. Anybody here ever watch the Tigers on TV? Is he the everyday color guy? Can you even stand it?

From the few Yankees @ Tigers games I've seen on Extra Innings™, Gibson's problem isn't so much his content but his delivery - an unenergetic monontone.
   43. donlock Posted: August 13, 2018 at 05:23 PM (#5725946)
Bordick: “I can’t ever see him using analytics over raw judgment, and just what you see in a player.”

Thorne, forcefully: “I don’t think he did. I think the analytics thing was forced on him [!?!?!?!] by the upper echelons of the the organization.

It is hard to believe that there are baseball people who still see the debate as either/or. You can only be on one side or the other. Stats say this OR my gut says this.

What is "what you see in a player"? Is that "raw judgment"? Earl Weaver, Billy Martin and Buck Showalter used stats to help them decide matchups and team rosters. All of the current managers do likewise, to varying degrees. Who is a current manager who never uses analytics? Any current GMs?

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