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Thursday, August 29, 2019

Mets slugger Pete Alonso makes the case for the RBI in this analytical era

NEW YORK – The sentence had not even been completed, and Pete Alonso reacted in such a way that made it clear that he could never agree.

The value of the RBI has been debated — and often diminished — in this analytical era of baseball, but Alonso isn’t having any of that discussion.

“Oh, absolutely (they matter),” Alonso said recently.

Alonso, the Mets’ rookie phenom who just set the team’s single-season home run record with No. 42 on Tuesday night, is one of 10 players in the 100-RBI club this year, accomplishing the feat last Saturday.

Is he really?

 

QLE Posted: August 29, 2019 at 08:24 AM | 23 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: pete alonso, rbi

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   1. The Duke Posted: August 29, 2019 at 02:46 PM (#5875363)
He also came out for stats published only once a week in the Sunday newspaper, transistor radios, and no night games in wrigley field
   2. Hank Gillette Posted: August 29, 2019 at 03:09 PM (#5875371)
Many pitchers will say how they bear down even more when a runner is at second or third base and just one hit away from scoring.


Maybe they should stop doing that, since batting averages go up when runners are in scoring position (I guess one could argue that the discrepancy would be even larger if the pitchers were not bearing down).

“I’m not trying to discredit anything else like guys getting on base and stuff like that, but driving in runs is an art,” Alonso told Yahoo Sports before a recent game against the Braves.


Let’s see how many RBIs he would have without those “guys getting on base and stuff like that”. Oh, yeah, 42.

If someone had made a mainstream stat out of RBI percentage, the way they did with batting average, they would have a better case for the importance of RBI. There would be the vexing matter of accounting for where the runners were, since an RBI is much easier to get with a runner on third with less than two out than with a runner on first.

Alonso is not even in the top 20 in the NL in batting average with runners in scoring position or with runners on base.

   3. Itchy Row Posted: August 29, 2019 at 03:38 PM (#5875380)
Pitchers did bear down when a runner reached second or third, but that ended when Babe Ruth showed that runners (and the hitter) could score from anywhere. If the writer has been talking to Pud Galvin or Amos Rusie recently, that's the real story here.
   4. Rally Posted: August 29, 2019 at 04:21 PM (#5875394)
Alonso is not even in the top 20 in the NL in batting average with runners in scoring position or with runners on base.


His RISP is going to be identical to his overall batting average. Because whenever Pete Alonso walks to the plate, he is in scoring position.
   5. PreservedFish Posted: August 29, 2019 at 04:25 PM (#5875395)
I still like RBI. They tell a story, an important one. Believe it or not, statistics aren't only useful to Front Office Fantasists.
   6. Walt Davis Posted: August 29, 2019 at 06:39 PM (#5875414)
Maybe they should stop doing that, since batting averages go up when runners are in scoring position

Not so much (at least not recently). And ISO goes down and walks go up (when 1B is open). One thing to keep in mind is that SFs don't count in the calculation of BA and that's most of the difference in BA.

BA and ISO (and some K and BB rates) With the correction for SF, 2019 AL (to keep pitchers mostly out of it):

empty: 247 189 ... 23.3% 8.1%
Men on: 258 181 ... 22.0 9.0
RISP: 251 176 ... 22.2 10.4
1-- and 1-3: 267 186
1B open: 251 172 ... 22.5 12.6
12- and 123: 246 179

So really the only time BA goes up is when the 1B is often holding the runner on and the MI are often at "double play depth" (whatever that might mean these days with all the shifting, etc.) ISO goes down at least a little bit in all scenarios. Also men-on situations are more common for pitchers with higher OBPs -- i.e. worse pitchers -- so we might expect higher numbers with runners on for that reason. That will be at least somewhat counter-acted from more relief PAs coming in men-on situations. One thing that doesn't make sense is why there's not more ISO control with a man on 1B -- that's when an XBH has its greatest impact.

The K-rate drops a bit -- maybe the bad pitcher effect, maybe trying to induce DPs, maybe batters trying to make more contact. The BB rate goes up but that's entirely 1B open situations, it drops a bit with a runner on 1B. About half the 1B-open jump is fully intentional, I suspect most of the rest is semi-intentional "give him nothing to hit" and maybe a bit of increased batter selectiveness. Assuming pitchers are making those decisions sensibly (i.e. pitching around Trout to get to anybody else), that might be reducing scoring. With a runner on 3B and 1B open, the K-rate jumps to over 25% which would seem to be pitchers bearing down.

On the SF point, the official BA with RISP is 259, 12 points higher than empty ... SFs account for 8 of those 12 points. BA on 1-3 is 291; adjust for SF brings it down to 267. Pitchers are getting slightly better results on 12- (all ISO reduction) and are trading walks for Ks and power reduction in 1B open situations.

Bases loaded might be the "pure" form -- nowhere to put anybody, a K would usually be a good thing, clearly don't want an XBH, etc. Adjusted for SFs:

BA: 245
ISO: 183
K%: 21.7
BB%: 7.1%

So not a lot of difference vs. bases empty -- slightly lower BA, slightly lower ISO, reduction in K%, reduction in BB%. There are still fewer than 1800 PAs with the bases loaded (< 0.6% of all PAs) for the 2019 AL so those opportunities are probably pretty randomly spread across good/bad pitchers and batters.

So it's not night and day. The clear differences are runner on 1B with 2B open (IF in less optimal defensive positions for hit prevention, possibly some distraction of the pitcher by the runner) and 1B open (intentional and "unintentional" walks). The 1B with 2B open jump in BA is probably not the fault of the pitcher and the do achieve a teeny drop in ISO. The jump in walk rate with 1B open is almost surely mostly the "fault" of the pitcher but almost certainly has strategic intent -- so the question is whether they are making the right decisions.

And I've never been sure that it is. You should look at Barry Bonds's walk rates with runners on and 1B open -- they're massive and were throughout his career. Obviously a lot of that was his great eye but it's also clear pitchers wanted no part of him (the IBB rates are extra huge). But it's not clear to me that made sense -- Bonds didn't hit a lot of singles and he was presumably as likely to take you deep with a runner on 1B as with 1B open. If it's worth walking him with 1B open, it might well be worth walking him with 1B full (assuming not 123); or if it's not worth walking him with 1B full, it's not clear it's worth walking him with 1B open. OK, sure, it's probably more advantageous with 1B open than not but I suspect that difference was not big enough to justify the massive walk rate difference.

With bases empty, Bonds walked 15.4% ... with 12- he walked just under 20% ... with -23, he was INTENTIONALLY walked more than 50% of the time. (When they pitched to him he was hacking ... by Bondsian standards.)
   7. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: August 29, 2019 at 07:24 PM (#5875416)
driving in runs is an art

Pete Alonso, if I counted right (there is probably a smarter way of figuring this out, but I figured it would be quicker to just count, than to figure it out), recorded 70 of his 101 RBI via home run... I don't know, I guess I don't see the art in hitting the ball really hard, and really far.
   8. cardsfanboy Posted: August 29, 2019 at 07:44 PM (#5875420)
I still like RBI. They tell a story, an important one. Believe it or not, statistics aren't only useful to Front Office Fantasists.


I'll admit, that when I look at a boxscore for a game I didn't watch, I naturally go to the rbi stat. It's habit, and it also does start to tell the story of the game, more than pretty much any other stat you'll see in the boxscore(offense side) sure if you see a 4 hit game or a 4 run game etc.. that will be an eye opener, but in a typical 5-4 game that you see, the guys with the rbi are the guys who's at bats you'll examine first to see what happened.


it still doesn't make it a stat that gives you any real clue of the quality of the player though, it does on the other hand give you a point of reference of where to look for the story of the game.
   9. Adam Starblind Posted: August 29, 2019 at 07:44 PM (#5875421)
I still like RBI. They tell a story, an important one. Believe it or not, statistics aren't only useful to Front Office Fantasists.


This. He likes when he hits the ball and a run scores as a result. So do his teammates. So do the fans. A lot of RBI means you did that a lot. Chill out.
   10. Howie Menckel Posted: August 29, 2019 at 07:58 PM (#5875426)
re post 6 and Bonds' walk rate - I have always been of the opinion that even the most dangerous of hitters can be walked TOO often, and that he fit that bill at the peak of the silliness.
   11. base ball chick Posted: August 29, 2019 at 09:33 PM (#5875451)
i would really like to know how "driving in runs is an art" - i mean, hitting ML pitching at all is an "art" - doesn't looks like pete hits lots better with RISP than other guys do who are hitting well

i don't know what on earth ol pete is driving at, but you caint drive em in if they ain't on

when the astros got carlos lee, all we heard about is - ooooooooooooooh the RBI machine. um, no. he was a GIDP machine. he certainly wasn't near as good as lance berkman, but didn't nobody call lance berkman an RBI man

this year, looks like alex bregman is gonna get the 100 trifecta - 100 walks, 100 RBI, 100 runs scored - impressive. he's worth his paycheck

   12. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: August 29, 2019 at 09:38 PM (#5875454)
when the astros got carlos lee, all we heard about is - ooooooooooooooh the RBI machine. um, no. he was a GIDP machine. he certainly wasn't near as good as lance berkman, but didn't nobody call lance berkman an RBI man
They only call players ‘RBI men’ when none of their other stats are any good. See also Carter, Joe.
   13. Walt Davis Posted: August 30, 2019 at 03:16 AM (#5875490)
re post 6 and Bonds' walk rate - I have always been of the opinion that even the most dangerous of hitters can be walked TOO often, and that he fit that bill at the peak of the silliness.

I think that's probably true too. But it's worth noting that his walk rates with 1B open were high for most of his career. From 1995-7, he was walked 36 times in 78 PA --3, 19 intentional. His rate was just under 25% from 91-93. For sure it got nuttier in the nutty years (37 of 57 for 2002-4). The 91-93 period is (probably) pretty typical for your "standard elite" slugger -- for example, it's pretty much exactly Thome's career rate -- and Bonds did lead the league in SLG 3 times from 90-93.

Mainly I find it interesting that the main reason to walk Bonds (or Thome or Mac or whoever) is to avoid the HR and the double. But the HR and the double are going to do (pretty much) the same damage with a runner on 1st as with -2- or --3 yet we almost never see an IBB or IuIBB with 1B occupied. In a close game, it would seem to be more obvious to walk a 340-hitting prime Ichiro at -2- with 2 outs but definitely not at 1--.

It becomes more curious for ... Alfonso Soriano. He walked a bit over 12% with --3, over 10% at -2- but just over 5% with bases empty. He had just a 270 career BA, was nearly as likely to hit an XBH as a single, was pretty likely to steal second anyway after hitting a single, and struck out a lot. His chances of having a big impact on the inning (relative to an average batter in the same spot) is higher at 1-- than at -2- (I'd think).

I'm not sure I ever noticed this before. The way RS are divided up in the splits (at least the base splits) makes no sense to me. His bases empty PAs are credited only for 249 runs ... all HRs. With men on, he reached base only a bit over 1100 times and "scored" over 900 runs. Obviously when he came up with nobody on and got on-base (other than a HR), his eventual scoring is getting counted in the "men on" split -- where in 1--, -2- and --3, he's the man on. Makes a lot more sense to me to count "he came up with nobody on and eventually scored a run."

recorded 70 of his 101 RBI via home run

This is regularly counted but a bit of a pain. But what b-r does track is runners on and RBIs relative to average. For some reason, this is hidden on a season's game log page (not available for a career as far as I know). So, in 561 PAs, Alonso has had 344 runners on base (185 at first, 101 at second, 58 at third) and has driven in 101 runs TOTAL. B-R says an average batter with those opportunities in that many PAs would have driven in 68 TOTAL.

An average hitter would have about 21 HR in 561 PA with 9 of those coming with men on. Alonso is at 42 and 19. So removing solo HRs, the average player would have 59 RBI and Alonso 78 in men on-base situations. Alonso has driven himself in 19 times with runners on compared with 9 for the average so that gets us to 59 for Alonso to 50 for the average guy. However 16 of Alonso's 19 HRs have come with a man on 1B which is 9-10 more than an average player would have so that's the rest of the difference. There might be some difference in the rate at which doubles are hit and/or the rate at which they drive in a runner from first (or singles from 2nd, etc.) but presumably those are minor.

Note 19 of 42 HRs (45.2%) is not much different than 9 of 21 (42.8%) so he's not particularly more likely to HR with men on (as a portion of all HR) than the average batter. 16 of 19 with a runner on first is only about 2 HR more than the average batter's ratio of HR, man on 1st to all HR with men on. So it does seem to almost entirely come down to Alonso hitting a lot more HRs than the average player.

They only call players ‘RBI men’ when none of their other stats are any good. See also Carter, Joe.

Would that be the guy with the shitty stats of a career 205 ISO and just shy of 400 career HR? His career BA was a bit below league-average, the SLG (and therefore ISO) were well above league-average. It is not that Carter's stats weren't good, it's that one of his stats was really bad -- walk rate (5.8% vs league 8.7%). Tony Perez was another "RBI man" and lord knows in his Reds' days he benefited from a ton of runners on base. But for his career, he also had a BA 15 points above league average, a OBP 10 points above and a SLG 73 points above. He had a 6 season run in which he compiled a 141 OPS+ and 33 WAR. (Unfortunately for him, that was all before the BRM really hit their stride. If he'd been peak Tony for 74-76, he might have 100+ more RBI on his total.)

I'd bring out some other genuinely great examples but, fair enough, possibly Aaron or Reggie or Thome were classed more as "great sluggers" as opposed to "RBI men" ... and Yaz and Musial as "great hitters." It might be correct to say that you are known as an "RBI man" when the only "great" stat you have is RBI ... which one could say the same for 200 hits and being a "good hitter."

But I'm pretty sure all we're really saying is that walks are under-rated therefore players who don't walk a lot but otherwise are good to very good hitters are over-rated.
   14. . Posted: August 30, 2019 at 07:19 AM (#5875501)
This. He likes when he hits the ball and a run scores as a result. So do his teammates. So do the fans. A lot of RBI means you did that a lot. Chill out.


Thirded, of course -- and this is another one of those "baseball" things that people advocate whose ultimate source isn't really baseball. The real beef at work here isn't that baseball offers up unequal and arbitrary opportunities to shine and compile, it's that life does.

   15. Sunday silence Posted: August 30, 2019 at 07:27 AM (#5875503)

On the SF point, the official BA with RISP is 259, 12 points higher than empty ... SFs account for 8 of those 12 points.


Im pretty sure your math is wrong here cause I redid this calculation for the last 5 seasons when we had this discussion the other day. As I recall w/ runners on base the nominal ba goes up like 13-17 pts, when adjusted for SF it comes down 4-5 pts. The net effect is that ba seems to go up 10-12 pts w/ men on.

Maybe I did the math wrong, but I added the total SF back into ABs to get those numbers.
   16. Darren Posted: August 30, 2019 at 09:59 AM (#5875526)
When I was a kid, I used to get mad at players for having an RBI total of less than 3 times their home runs. So a guy with 27 HR and 81 RBIs was more acceptable than a guy with 33 HR and 81 RBIs. I don't know why, exactly. It's still hard for me to get used to the 40 HR, <100 RBI seasons.

Anyway, the point is RBIs are still fun, as long as you don't use RBI for the plural.
   17. TomH Posted: August 30, 2019 at 10:05 AM (#5875528)
still hard for me to get used to the 40 HR, <100 RBI seasons

you mean, like Mantle, who did it twice in 3 seasons? :)
   18. SandyRiver Posted: August 30, 2019 at 12:49 PM (#5875631)
Alonzo has batted in 59 runners (101 minus 42 "self-RBIs"), which is 17.2%. This compares to David Ortiz' career rate of 17.4%. (Too lazy to parse his Sox-only rate, which is likely higher as he hit far better there.) Mantle's rate was lower at 15.8% (and despite the Bronx Bombers' rep in batting, Mick came up with more than 800 fewer runners on than Ortiz, in just 184 fewer PA.) Musial's rate was 20.6%. (His splits include only 89% of his PA; that 20.6% assumes that numbers of baserunners in that missing 11% of PA were similar to those in the 89%.) Looking further back at RBI machines like Lou Gehrig, I find too many PA missing from the splits to make that same assumption.
   19. Sunday silence Posted: August 31, 2019 at 08:05 AM (#5875861)
this is a follow up the debate we've been having about ba w/ runners on base. Here's the data for the last six seasons

YR.... BA no one...BA men on* ...BA men on (Corrected) ..NET GAIN (in pts)

2019 .246 .264 .260 14
2018 .241 .258 .253 12
2017 .250 .262 .257 7
2016 .259 .262 .258 8
2015 .248 .264 .259 11
2014 .245 .259 .255 10

*this is nominal BA which doesnt include SF; third column corrects BA to include SF

Some work product
2019 hits w/ men on: 15180; AB men on + SF: 58494
2018 hits w/ men on: 17818; AB men on + SF: 70421

So its not an illusion ba goes up about 10 pts with men on base. This should be obvious for several reasons, you've often got a first baseman holding a runner. there's no counter balance to offset that hole.
   20. bobm Posted: August 31, 2019 at 12:42 PM (#5875910)
For Single Seasons, From 1901 to 2019, (requiring HR>=40 and RBI>=3*HR), sorted by greatest Seasons matching criteria

                          
Rk                Name Yrs
1            Babe Ruth   6

2        Manny Ramirez   5
3           Lou Gehrig   5

4       Carlos Delgado   3
5        Juan Gonzalez   3
6         Frank Thomas   3
7          Duke Snider   3
8          Jimmie Foxx   3

9        Nolan Arenado   2
10      Miguel Cabrera   2
11         Ryan Howard   2
12         David Ortiz   2
13       Lance Berkman   2
14         Mike Piazza   2
15        Jeff Bagwell   2
16    Andres Galarraga   2
17        Albert Belle   2
18          Jay Buhner   2
19        Johnny Bench   2
20          Hank Aaron   2
21         Johnny Mize   2
22      Hank Greenberg   2
23         Chuck Klein   2

24       J.D. Martinez   1
25   Edwin Encarnacion   1
26      Josh Donaldson   1
27      Prince Fielder   1
28        Andruw Jones   1
29       Mark Teixeira   1
30          Phil Nevin   1
31      Alex Rodriguez   1
32         Todd Helton   1
33        Jason Giambi   1
34     Rafael Palmeiro   1
35   Vladimir Guerrero   1
36      Vinny Castilla   1
37       Tino Martinez   1
38           Mo Vaughn   1
39        Ken Caminiti   1
40         Ellis Burks   1
41         Barry Bonds   1
42      Dante Bichette   1
43       David Justice   1
44       Cecil Fielder   1
45            Jim Rice   1
46       George Foster   1
47      Billy Williams   1
48          Tony Perez   1
49         Willie Mays   1
50         Jim Gentile   1
51      Rocky Colavito   1
52      Orlando Cepeda   1
53           Norm Cash   1
54         Ernie Banks   1
55          Gil Hodges   1
56            Al Rosen   1
57      Roy Campanella   1
58        Ted Williams   1
59         Ralph Kiner   1
60        Joe DiMaggio   1
61          Hal Trosky   1
62         Hack Wilson   1
63             Mel Ott   1
64      Rogers Hornsby   1


Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 8/31/2019.
   21. bobm Posted: August 31, 2019 at 12:48 PM (#5875913)
For Single Seasons, From 1901 to 2019, (requiring HR>=30 and RBI>=3*HR), sorted by greatest Seasons matching criteria

                           
Rk                 Name Yrs
1        Carlos Delgado  10
2         Manny Ramirez  10
3           Jimmie Foxx  10
4            Lou Gehrig  10

5        Miguel Cabrera   9

6               Mel Ott   8

7           David Ortiz   7
8        Frank Robinson   7
9          Ted Williams   7
10         Joe DiMaggio   7
11            Babe Ruth   7

12        Mark Teixeira   6
13        Albert Pujols   6
14        Lance Berkman   6
15         Jeff Bagwell   6
16         Albert Belle   6
17           Joe Carter   6
18           Hank Aaron   6
19          Stan Musial   6

20           Carlos Lee   5
21          Todd Helton   5
22    Vladimir Guerrero   5
23         Jason Giambi   5
24       Alex Rodriguez   5
25        Juan Gonzalez   5
26          Eric Karros   5
27         Frank Thomas   5
28          Barry Bonds   5
29         Eddie Murray   5

30        Nolan Arenado   4
31          Ryan Howard   4
32       Prince Fielder   4
33            Jason Bay   4
34        Miguel Tejada   4
35        Richie Sexson   4
36      Magglio Ordonez   4
37        Chipper Jones   4
38            Mo Vaughn   4
39           Tim Salmon   4
40          Mike Piazza   4
41       Gary Sheffield   4
42         Fred McGriff   4
43        Cecil Fielder   4
44         Johnny Bench   4
45       Billy Williams   4
46            Ron Santo   4
47       Orlando Cepeda   4
48          Duke Snider   4
49           Gil Hodges   4
50       Hank Greenberg   4
51          Chuck Klein   4
52          Hack Wilson   4

53        Anthony Rizzo   3
54     Paul Goldschmidt   3
55            Jay Bruce   3
56        Adrian Beltre   3
57           Ryan Braun   3
58      Adrian Gonzalez   3
59          Chase Utley   3
60       Justin Morneau   3
61          Pat Burrell   3
62         Paul Konerko   3
63         Andruw Jones   3
64          Scott Rolen   3
65       Vinny Castilla   3
66       Jeromy Burnitz   3
67           Tony Clark   3
68      Rafael Palmeiro   3
69        Tino Martinez   3
70     Andres Galarraga   3
71       Dante Bichette   3
72        Matt Williams   3
73        Don Mattingly   3
74          Dale Murphy   3
75         Dwight Evans   3
76       Andre Thornton   3
77             Jim Rice   3
78          Dave Parker   3
79         Mike Schmidt   3
80          Boog Powell   3
81       Rocky Colavito   3
82       Roy Campanella   3
83           Hank Sauer   3
84            Rudy York   3
85           Hal Trosky   3
86         Earl Averill   3
87         Wally Berger   3
88           Al Simmons   3
89       Rogers Hornsby   3

90    Edwin Encarnacion   2
91          Adam Duvall   2
92           Jose Abreu   2
93            Matt Kemp   2
94       Ryan Zimmerman   2
95      Kendrys Morales   2
96        Evan Longoria   2
97        Josh Hamilton   2
98         David Wright   2
99       Carlos Beltran   2
100       Matt Holliday   2
101          Derrek Lee   2
102        Vernon Wells   2
103         Aubrey Huff   2
104      Aramis Ramirez   2
105         Eric Chavez   2
106          Bret Boone   2
107         Bobby Abreu   2
108      Preston Wilson   2
109          Phil Nevin   2
110        Larry Walker   2
111        Tony Batista   2
112        Raul Mondesi   2
113           Jeff Kent   2
114         Moises Alou   2
115        Ray Lankford   2
116   Nomar Garciaparra   2
117       Robin Ventura   2
118           Jim Thome   2
119           John Jaha   2
120        Steve Finley   2
121         Ellis Burks   2
122          Sammy Sosa   2
123         Jim Edmonds   2
124          Jay Buhner   2
125       David Justice   2
126     Danny Tartabull   2
127            Ron Gant   2
128         Gary Gaetti   2
129         Glenn Davis   2
130        Jose Canseco   2
131        Dave Kingman   2
132        Andre Dawson   2
133      Pedro Guerrero   2
134        Cecil Cooper   2
135       Dave Winfield   2
136          Don Baylor   2
137       George Foster   2
138      Jason Thompson   2
139       Greg Luzinski   2
140      Reggie Jackson   2
141         Bobby Bonds   2
142          Tony Perez   2
143       Ken Harrelson   2
144     Willie Stargell   2
145     Johnny Callison   2
146         Dick Stuart   2
147         Willie Mays   2
148        Frank Thomas   2
149          Larry Doby   2
150          Yogi Berra   2
151            Al Rosen   2
152       Vern Stephens   2
153         Ralph Kiner   2
154           Del Ennis   2
155      Charlie Keller   2
156         Johnny Mize   2
157          Joe Gordon   2
158         Bob Johnson   2

[159-316                  1]


Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 8/31/2019.
   22. Swoboda is freedom Posted: August 31, 2019 at 12:50 PM (#5875914)
Mantle's rate was lower at 15.8% (and despite the Bronx Bombers' rep in batting, Mick came up with more than 800 fewer runners on than Ortiz, in just 184 fewer PA.)


How many years would he be up after Kubek and Bobby Richardson? Both those guys had OBP of .300.
   23. Sunday silence Posted: August 31, 2019 at 03:18 PM (#5875949)
typo in post 19, should be "2016 .250..."

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