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Friday, May 04, 2018

Mets to designate former All-Star Matt Harvey for assignment

“My guess,” Alderson said, “is that there are people out there who are willing to take a shot on Matt Harvey.

“It’s the end of an era. And I use that term in the broad sense. Matt has been a cornerstone certainly of my tenure here. A tremendous prospect at the time I arrived, tremendous accomplishments during the course of my tenure here, and it’s a very unfortunate, difficult conclusion.”

Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: May 04, 2018 at 04:58 PM | 41 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: matt harvey, mets, the long dark knight of the soul

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   1. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: May 04, 2018 at 05:40 PM (#5666499)
my God, ther guy had 1 1/2 good years
   2. Yonder Alonso in misguided trousers (cardinal) Posted: May 04, 2018 at 05:47 PM (#5666501)
Whaaaaaaaaaaaat


I mean, I figured this was his last year with the Mets no matter what, but still, this is ignominious.
   3. PreservedFish Posted: May 04, 2018 at 05:52 PM (#5666503)
1 1/2 Hall of Fame years.
   4. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: May 04, 2018 at 05:56 PM (#5666506)
1 1/2 Hall of Fame years.

obviously a big Hall guy
   5. Batman Posted: May 04, 2018 at 05:59 PM (#5666507)
It’s the end of an era. And I use that term in the broad sense.
It is definitely the end of a span of time in a broad sense.
   6. Lassus Posted: May 04, 2018 at 06:00 PM (#5666508)
I blame Lucas Duda.
   7. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: May 04, 2018 at 06:09 PM (#5666510)
Truly this is a Dark Knight of the soul.
   8. Adam Starblind Posted: May 04, 2018 at 06:13 PM (#5666511)
Good move. He's a distraction. I don't know if he'll ever pitch competently again, but it's very unlikely to happen during this season, his last before becoming a FA. Good luck. Paul Wilson had some cromulent years.
   9. Conor Posted: May 04, 2018 at 06:17 PM (#5666514)
His first 3 seasons was 65 starts, so basically 2 full seasons.

427 IP, 94 BB, 449 K, 2.53 ERA, 2.65 FIP, 146 ERA+

From 2012-15, of pitchers who made at least 50 starts, Harvey was #2 in ERA.
   10. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: May 04, 2018 at 06:20 PM (#5666515)
#7, check the tags.
   11. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: May 04, 2018 at 06:23 PM (#5666517)
D'oh! I suck!
   12. Dog on the sidewalk Posted: May 04, 2018 at 06:50 PM (#5666521)
Probably necessary, once he refused the demotion. He shouldn't be on a major league roster right now.

At this time in 2013, I'd have struggled to imagine a scenario in which the Mets would DFA him pre-free agency. He was never my favorite player, but this is pretty sad. I hope he can at least get back to usefulness (for Boston or Tampa, preferably).
   13. Jose is an Absurd Force of Nature Posted: May 04, 2018 at 06:56 PM (#5666522)
I’m shocked. I was pretty strongly against the idea of taking Vargas over him in the earlier thread. It was early season, his numbers weren’t too bad and it seemed reasonable that as the weather warmed up and he got settled he’d pitch better. Then I saw him pitch in Atlanta and good lord was he awful. No velocity, no movement, no nothing. It was shocking to watch.

This seems excessive to me, sending him to the bullpen seems like the way to go. Adam makes a good point. From afar it’s tough to judge these things but it’s easy enough to understand how he would be a distraction.
   14. Lassus Posted: May 04, 2018 at 07:25 PM (#5666532)
Listen, everything is going to be OK. Wheeler has only given up 6 hits and 5 runs in the first third of the first inning of his start tonight.
   15. PreservedFish Posted: May 04, 2018 at 07:29 PM (#5666534)
Vargas is definitely worse. I hate that guy.
   16. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: May 04, 2018 at 07:30 PM (#5666535)
I am growing tired of Sandy although I agree with this decision. The Phillies had a run of success, the Nats have had a run of success, and the Braves look like they are going to dominate the division for the next few years. Sandy and his team have been thoroughly mediocre and I don't see this team being especially good over the next few years. The Mets have won one division title in his run.

I would not be upset in the least if they got rid of him.

   17. perros Posted: May 04, 2018 at 07:44 PM (#5666540)
Harvey has always been his very worst enemy. Other pitchers have worked hard and fought back through injuries and major surgeries, but the guy prefers the nightlife to the tried and true early to bed, early to rise.

I'll be shocked if he ever improves, though some foolish GM somehwere will roll the dice.
   18. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: May 04, 2018 at 07:59 PM (#5666544)
Harvey has always been his very worst enemy. Other pitchers have worked hard and fought back through injuries and major surgeries, but the guy prefers the nightlife to the tried and true early to bed, early to rise.

Harvey did rehab after Tommy John Surgery and returned to have an excellent season. I don't think it is a laziness thing. Very few pitchers have returned from surgery to correct thoracic outlet syndrome and have been effective.
   19. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: May 04, 2018 at 09:03 PM (#5666585)
Matt Harvey = Joba Chamberlain without the midges
   20. oscar madisox Posted: May 04, 2018 at 09:43 PM (#5666619)
The latest came earlier this week when the New York Post reported that he was seen partying in Los Angeles during the Mets' West Coast swing.


If the Mets were worried about his major league partying, what did they think would happen if they sent him to Triple A?
   21. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: May 04, 2018 at 09:52 PM (#5666632)
“My guess,” Alderson said, “is that there are people out there who are willing to take a shot on Matt Harvey.”

I have to admit, my initial reaction was "well duh, someone will take a chance on him". But then I started to try and figure out who it would be... If you are a contender, you really can't run him out there, and potentially let him set every fifth start on fire. And he has no options, and we already know he won't accept a minor league assignment. And if you are not a contender, even if you do manage to fix him, there is no payoff. Since he will be a FA at the end of the season, before he is useful for you.

All of this is a long-winded way of saying, I think the Padres will claim him.
   22. Tin Angel Posted: May 04, 2018 at 10:04 PM (#5666645)
I have to admit, my initial reaction was "well duh, someone will take a chance on him". But then I started to try and figure out who it would be...


The Giants are pretty desperate for starting pitching right now.
   23. SoSH U at work Posted: May 04, 2018 at 10:36 PM (#5666702)
we already know he won't accept a minor league assignment.


We know he wouldn't accept one from the Mets. A few weeks sitting by the phone and his standards might get lowered.
   24. BDC Posted: May 04, 2018 at 10:40 PM (#5666705)
Rangers have stockpiled Tim Lincecum and Edinson Volquez, so why not.
   25. Howie Menckel Posted: May 04, 2018 at 10:44 PM (#5666710)
We know he wouldn't accept one from the Mets. A few weeks sitting by the phone and his standards might get lowered.

his history does not suggest this
   26. SoSH U at work Posted: May 04, 2018 at 11:13 PM (#5666750)
his history does not suggest this


Well, his history never included a DFA until today. It's possible he'll retire before he accepts a trip to the minors to work things out, but that seems unlikely to me.
   27. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: May 05, 2018 at 02:31 AM (#5666831)
We know he wouldn't accept one from the Mets. A few weeks sitting by the phone and his standards might get lowered.

A few weeks would be too late for the Mets though. AFAIK, they only have 10 days after dfa-ing him, before they have to grant him an outright release, and are on the hook for the rest of his salary.

And Harvey doesn't have to retire, if he doesn't accept a MLA Right NOW. He can take his five and a half million for this season, try and get back into shape or form on his own, at his preferred location, without having to bus around, and endure all the indignities of minor league ball. If he works things out, and looks like old Harvey or close to it, he will get offers in the offseason.
   28. , Posted: May 05, 2018 at 07:40 AM (#5666841)
@27, I would actually argue that is what he SHOULD do. He's clearly not right and he'll get hard in AAA, too. He needs to do whatever rehab is necessary to see if he can comeback. He's being paid well no matter what, better to take it slow and steady than try to force something this year.

And, he might just be done. As Russlan says, the history of guys coming back from his syndrome are not promising.
   29. Blastin Posted: May 05, 2018 at 07:46 AM (#5666842)
he'll get hard in AAA, too


Nice.
   30. Non-Youkilidian Geometry Posted: May 05, 2018 at 08:01 AM (#5666843)
Very few pitchers have returned from surgery to correct thoracic outlet syndrome and have been effective.

There have been a few recent examples, though: Tyson Ross has looked good this year after struggling in his first year back; Foltynewicz has been pretty good after having the surgery in 2015; Chris Young had a couple of solid seasons after his surgery; Jaime Garcia had perhaps his best season after coming back from his surgery, although he's mostly been mediocre since then.
   31. PreservedFish Posted: May 05, 2018 at 08:24 AM (#5666846)
Surprised at the discussion over whether or not Matt Harvey will get another chance. Of course he will.
   32. , Posted: May 05, 2018 at 08:37 AM (#5666848)
He'll get one. The question is when and whether or not he can do anything with it.

I think next year and no.
   33. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: May 05, 2018 at 09:13 AM (#5666851)
He can take his five and a half million for this season, try and get back into shape or form on his own, at his preferred location, without having to bus around, and endure all the indignities of minor league ball.


But this applies to his situation with the Mets too. If he's legitimately injured and needs extensive rehab, then what's the point of sending him to the minors? Just put him on the 60-day DL if you need his roster spot. Maybe his velocity comes back by August or maybe it doesn't, but it's no skin off the Mets noses either way.
   34. , Posted: May 05, 2018 at 09:28 AM (#5666854)
True. I think they either think he's unfixable toast or they're tired of dealing with him behind the scenes. But the DL seems to have been a better option.

Can a player refuse the DL? If he says he's fine, what happens?
   35. The Duke Posted: May 05, 2018 at 01:07 PM (#5666894)
My trade is Greg holland from Cardinals for Harvey. holland is ok but not the guy the card thought they were getting. Matheny always keeps one pitcher in the bullpen who only pitches if the game goes to 13. Harvey can be that guy and work on whatever ails him with a new pitching coach. Money is 14 for Holland and 6 for Harvey but Holland is only a one year commit. How long do you need to keep Harvey and at what price?
   36. puck Posted: May 05, 2018 at 01:09 PM (#5666897)
He can take his five and a half million for this season, try and get back into shape or form on his own, at his preferred location

Maybe he should contact Adam Ottavino's father in law. (Ottavino tried to get Harvey to go in together on a workout space in the offseason.)

Does Harvey really not work hard, or is this mostly due to his health?
   37. Howie Menckel Posted: May 05, 2018 at 01:21 PM (#5666900)
Greg Holland for $14M - lol
   38. Tom Nawrocki Posted: May 05, 2018 at 02:07 PM (#5666914)

Does Harvey really not work hard, or is this mostly due to his health?


I've gotta think it's more of a health thing, just because his career turned on a dime. Maybe not so coincidentally, it was after the Mets left him in to pitch the ninth inning in the 2015 World Series. Prior to that game, he had made 65 starts with a 2.53 ERA.

In his first three starts in 2016, he gave up 4, 3 and 5 runs, and never got any better. Since the 2015 World Series, he's made 39 starts with a 5.93 ERA.

That doesn't look a guy whose career unraveled thanks to poor work habits. It looks like a guy who got hurt.
   39. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: May 05, 2018 at 03:01 PM (#5666950)

Does Harvey really not work hard, or is this mostly due to his health?

He lost a lot of weight coming into this season...I wouldn't say "best shape of his life" because he was a physical specimen as a rookie and because it's a cliche, but he looked like a guy who had worked quite hard in the offseason. I won't begrudge him a night out in LA if he wasn't violating team rules -- these guys aren't supposed to be monks.
   40. Adam Starblind Posted: May 05, 2018 at 03:14 PM (#5666951)
He went from the ESPN "The Body" issue to fat slob almost overnight. It was incredible. You're right he did look thinner this season though.
   41. Walt Davis Posted: May 05, 2018 at 05:19 PM (#5667009)
Harvey 12-15: 427 IP, 146 ERA+, 9.5/2.0 K/BB, 12 bWAR, 8 bWAA
Prior 02-04: 447 IP, 139 ERA+, 10.7/2.7 K/BB, 13 bWAR, 9.5 bWAA

Prior had one more good year (167 IP, 3.6 bWAR).

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