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Sunday, July 06, 2008

MIL Journal-Sentinel: Brewers make trade for pitcher C.C. Sabathia

In a bold move designed to end the club’s 26-year playoff drought, the Milwaukee Brewers agreed in principle Sunday night to acquire Cleveland left-handed pitcher C.C. Sabathia in exchange for top prospect Matt LaPorta and three other minor-leaguers.

A Brewers official confirmed the deal, which will be officially announced today by both teams. The Brewers are expected to have the reigning American League Cy Young Award winner on the mound Tuesday night at Miller Park against the Colorado Rockies.
...
But a source familiar with the discussions said minor-league pitchers Zach Jackson and Rob Bryson also were in the deal. A fourth player, officially designated as “to be named later,” could turn out to be third baseman Taylor Green, the Brewers’ minor-league player of the year in 2007.
...
To part with LaPorta, the Brewers told the Indians they had to get a deal done by Sunday night. Sabathia’s next scheduled turn is Tuesday, and the Brewers knew if they could get him on the mound by then, he could take another turn on Sunday, the final day before the all-star break.

The Brewers sweep the Pirates and now have the second best record in the NL, and this, too. Productive day.

UPDATE: [Brewers’] Sabathia press conference at 11 a.m.

NTNgod Posted: July 06, 2008 at 11:02 PM | 159 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
Tags: brewers, indians

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1. CraigK Posted: July 06, 2008 at 11:14 PM (#2846090)

Well, at least the Cardinals made past the halfway point of the season in second place.

2. pyrite Posted: July 06, 2008 at 11:17 PM (#2846100)

Who does CC replace in the rotation: Parra (4.66 xFIP), McClung (4.67), Suppan (4.72), or Bush (5.18)?

3. JoeHova Posted: July 06, 2008 at 11:19 PM (#2846106)

Jeez, those FIPS look bad. I'd bet Bush will be replaced, with Parra having a shot as well because he has an innings limit (at least theoretically) this year. Then again, it could be McClung as well. I wouldn't be surprised if the Brewers made another trade for a starter now that this one is done.

I'm not sure about the long-term effects of this deal, but I'll just sit back and try to enjoy this season.

4. Brandon in MO (Yunitility Infielder) Posted: July 06, 2008 at 11:19 PM (#2846107)

Watch out Bratwurst stands, here comes CC!

5. whoisalhedges Posted: July 06, 2008 at 11:19 PM (#2846108)

Who does CC replace in the rotation: Parra (4.66 xFIP), McClung (4.67), Suppan (4.72), or Bush (5.18)?

Parra has been outstanding (too many walks, but otherwise outstanding) for 2/3 of the season so far. He's solid. Bush has been lights out in his last 3 starts, I think he's safe. McClung has been pitching pretty well recently, Suppan has not -- but Soup makes the big dollars, and McClung has "bullpen experience."

I'd bet Sheets' elbow that McClung goes to the pen, and hopefully Mota (but probably Stetter) gets sent packing.

6. Earvin 'Gold Stars' Johnson Posted: July 06, 2008 at 11:21 PM (#2846115)

Secondary question: Where does Sabathia pitch in '09?

7. robinred

Posted: July 06, 2008 at 11:23 PM (#2846119)

Where does Sabathia pitch in '09?

NY Yankees

8. Earvin 'Gold Stars' Johnson Posted: July 06, 2008 at 11:27 PM (#2846133)

Dodgers, maybe.
They've got a ton of salary coming off the books, plus CC is a California guy.

9. Vaux, A.B.D. Posted: July 06, 2008 at 11:27 PM (#2846136)

Most likely. I could see the Angels doing it, since Escobar is toast, and the performance of Saunders and Garland is flukish. The Rangers are unpredictable; they might go nuts.

10. npurcell Posted: July 06, 2008 at 11:28 PM (#2846141)

Tertiary question: What will the Brewers rotation look like in 2009? Most likely, both Sheets and CC will be gone. Are they going to have to trade Fielder for a young stud and then plug Gamel at 1b?

11. Craig Calcaterra Posted: July 06, 2008 at 11:29 PM (#2846144)

The Rangers are unpredictable; they might go nuts.

I've always gotten the impression that CC is a pretty bright guy. He has to know that going to Texas would be a death sentence for him.

12. robinred

Posted: July 06, 2008 at 11:30 PM (#2846147)

Tertiary question: What will the Brewers rotation look like in 2009? Most likely, both Sheets and CC will be gone. Are they going to have to trade Fielder for a young stud and then plug Gamel at 1b?

Doubtful. Also, if the Brewers make a nice run, I think Sheets may stay.

13. npurcell Posted: July 06, 2008 at 11:30 PM (#2846148)

Dodgers, maybe.
They've got a ton of salary coming off the books, plus CC is a California guy.

and Colletti is crazy. It'll be like a little game, how much can one spend on a starting rotation AND the Major League disabled list!

14. Crispix Attacks Posted: July 06, 2008 at 11:31 PM (#2846150)

Tertiary question: What will the Brewers rotation look like in 2009? Most likely, both Sheets and CC will be gone. Are they going to have to trade Fielder for a young stud and then plug Gamel at 1b?

Trade Fielder?!?!? Isn't it his presence that made them have no use for LaPorta?

15. JoeHova Posted: July 06, 2008 at 11:32 PM (#2846154)

Tertiary question: What will the Brewers rotation look like in 2009? Most likely, both Sheets and CC will be gone. Are they going to have to trade Fielder for a young stud and then plug Gamel at 1b?

They wouldn't have to do that, and considering that they just traded LaPorta, they don't have nearly as much of a corner logjam anymore. Their rotation could be average or above next year just with the guys they'll have under contract (Gallardo, Parra, Bush, Suppan, McClung, Villanueva). However, with Sheets and various other crap coming off the books, there is no reason they can't sign someone to replace Sheets and/or Sabathia. The above six guys will probably not even cost $20 million even with Suppan accounting for $12 million of that.

16. Harveys Wallbangers

Posted: July 06, 2008 at 11:35 PM (#2846165)

Sheets is gone.

Zach Greinke could be a FA target.

17. PASTE is not impressed by Albert Pujols (Zeth) Posted: July 06, 2008 at 11:35 PM (#2846169)

I still think the Nationals are going to make a hard push for Sabathia. Not that they'll actually get him; of course he's going to the Yankees.

Honestly, I think the expected result of the Sabathia deal for 2008 is that he'll take Sheets' place in the rotation after Sheets hurts himself and misses the second half as he always does.

18. npurcell Posted: July 06, 2008 at 11:36 PM (#2846170)

17

Greinke isn't going to be a free agent though...

19. buddy Posted: July 06, 2008 at 11:38 PM (#2846172)

great line in a tribe blog: will fielder and CC have to be seated at separate ends of the planes for balance?

20. robinred

Posted: July 06, 2008 at 11:38 PM (#2846173)

I know one thing: if I were a Brewer fan, I wouldn't be thinking all that much about '09 right now. I'd be thinking, "Get ahead of the Cardinals."

21. Harveys Wallbangers

Posted: July 06, 2008 at 11:39 PM (#2846177)

19:

I thought I read that he was coming up.

Whoops.

Either way, Sheets will want 15/yr over lots of years,

That is not happening in Milwaukeea.

22. Earvin 'Gold Stars' Johnson Posted: July 06, 2008 at 11:41 PM (#2846180)

Watch the Dodgers get Sheets, and relive the Dreifort nightmare.

23. Perros Posted: July 06, 2008 at 11:42 PM (#2846186)

I'd give the Dodgers a good chance to land Sabathia, but I could definitely see them going for Sheets instead.

24. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: July 06, 2008 at 11:49 PM (#2846210)

Good for the Brewers, and I'd be happy to see them win the WS.

The Yankees have a ton of payroll (probably more than anyone else) coming off this year and are also moving to a more profitable stadium. Who knows what they'll do, but I hope they go after Sabathia hard.

25. PASTE is not impressed by Albert Pujols (Zeth) Posted: July 06, 2008 at 11:54 PM (#2846222)

You know... the Yankees have far more money than any team in baseball. To my thinking, unless somebody goes totally crazy like with the Barry Zito Contract, if they don't come away with both Sabathia and Teixeira this offseason, they're failing to leverage their money. I also have trouble understanding why they don't just sign every highly-regarded Latin American prospect. Every one of them. Because they rightly fear that would result in something being done to stop them, I guess.

Yeah, 6 years/$140 million is too much to pay for a pitcher, even Sabathia. But the Yankees, more than anybody else, can afford it, and with Sabathia and Teixeira we're talking about relatively young free agents, guys that are better bets than your typical free agent to still be good players 6 or 7 years from now.

26. JoeHova Posted: July 06, 2008 at 11:56 PM (#2846225)

I know one thing: if I were a Brewer fan, I wouldn't be thinking all that much about '09 right now. I'd be thinking, "Get ahead of the Cardinals."

They did that today too.

27. tribefan Posted: July 06, 2008 at 11:56 PM (#2846227)

It's probably the right move for the Indians, but damn I will miss seeing CC pitch in an Indians uniform. This kinda sucks.

28. Jimmy P Posted: July 06, 2008 at 11:57 PM (#2846229)

Zach Greinke could be a FA target.

But he's not a free agent until 2010. And, I'd think that KC would want to keep him just a little.

29. PASTE is not impressed by Albert Pujols (Zeth) Posted: July 07, 2008 at 12:01 AM (#2846239)

The Indians got good value out of this trade. LaPorta plus a couple of decent low-minors prospects is more valuable than the two draft picks. As for the Brewers, they'll get the draft picks, which is nice, but they're going all-in on 2008, which is the right move.

30. The District Attorney Posted: July 07, 2008 at 12:04 AM (#2846244)

Going for The Big Run This Year would have made way more sense if Gallardo weren't hurt. Then you've got three aces, and World Series dreams would be very realistic. But without Gallardo, I don't like the odds on this. If the Brewers make the playoffs -- far from a given even with CC -- and lose in the first or second round, and if LaPorta is a quality major leaguer (I'm thinking Pat Burrell), will this really go down in history as a good deal for them? I don't think it would.

(I'm assuming they have no realistic shot to re-sign CC, which I haven't heard anyone claim to the contrary.)

CC getting to hit regularly is cool, though.

31. Darren

Posted: July 07, 2008 at 12:06 AM (#2846247)

I know I've come out against this trade from the Brewers standpoint but if you're going to mortgage the future for an ace, I really like CC. He's so young and he's been so durable and so good. He really does improve the team about as much as any starting pitcher would.

32. The Answer to the TWolves (GMoney) Posted: July 07, 2008 at 12:09 AM (#2846257)

So it looks like the Twins could have gotten more for Johan if they waited. I sure as hell would rather have LaPorta than Gomez.

33. NTNgod Posted: July 07, 2008 at 12:10 AM (#2846260)

If the Brewers make the playoffs -- far from a given even with CC -- and lose in the first or second round, and if LaPorta is a quality major leaguer (I'm thinking Pat Burrell), will this really go down in history as a good deal for them?

When a team hasn't made the playoffs in over a quarter-century, yes, even that would be a tremendous boost locally.

Sheets is probably gone in 2009, so remember that.

34. Crispix Attacks Posted: July 07, 2008 at 12:10 AM (#2846265)

I also have trouble understanding why they don't just sign every highly-regarded Latin American prospect. Every one of them.

This would eventually lead to some of them not wanting to be in the Yankees organization because they would have to get past a huge number of other good players in order to have any shot of making the majors. On the other hand, a $1 million bonus would make me see that as a much smaller problem. And it seemed to work when Branch Rickey did it with US prospects.

35. Vaux, A.B.D. Posted: July 07, 2008 at 12:14 AM (#2846277)

He seems a good bet for a long, healthy career, certainly for a good next four or five years. That means that (a) if a smaller-payroll team is going to spend huge dollars on a player, he's the one, but also (b) he'll get a truly gigantic contract, in both money and years, if he stays healthy for the next three months. That makes the Brewers both more and less likely to re-sign him.

36. manchestermets Posted: July 07, 2008 at 12:18 AM (#2846287)

CC getting to hit regularly is cool, though.

Wow, 107 OPS+ in 40 AB. Is that pure fluke, or does he have some pre MLB hitting form?

37. Don Guillote (The Cheat) Posted: July 07, 2008 at 12:26 AM (#2846303)

Could be a big win for the Tribe if "lower level" guy ends up being Jeffress, even though the CW was that the Indians needed positional talent.

38. Fred Garvin still has outstanding warrants Posted: July 07, 2008 at 12:27 AM (#2846305)

In reporting it as a done deal, ESPN says:

Brewers general manager Doug Melvin told the Journal Sentinel on Saturday that a proposal was on table and he awaiting word from Indians GM Mark Shapiro.

"Mark said he'd be in touch with me," said Melvin. "I'm sure they've got to think through everything."

Doesn't sound like a deal yet to me.

39. Tony H. Posted: July 07, 2008 at 12:29 AM (#2846309)

That quote is from yesterday. Although it is true that the only outlet reporting it as being done, as far as I can tell, is the Journal Sentinel blog.

40. NTNgod Posted: July 07, 2008 at 12:30 AM (#2846314)

Doesn't sound like a deal yet to me.

That was lifted from yesterday's J-S blog entry

41. Fred Garvin still has outstanding warrants Posted: July 07, 2008 at 12:31 AM (#2846317)

Thanks, gents.

42. whoisalhedges Posted: July 07, 2008 at 12:35 AM (#2846327)

I've got my tickets for Tuesday's game!

43. PASTE is not impressed by Albert Pujols (Zeth) Posted: July 07, 2008 at 12:36 AM (#2846330)

But without Gallardo, I don't like the odds on this. If the Brewers make the playoffs -- far from a given even with CC -- and lose in the first or second round, and if LaPorta is a quality major leaguer (I'm thinking Pat Burrell), will this really go down in history as a good deal for them? I don't think it would.

Does it really accomplish much to say this is a good deal if the Brewers win the World Series and a bad deal if it doesn't? I think it's a good deal because it significantly improves their chances to win the championship, and it is, after all, about winning the championship.

The gold standard here is the Tigers trading John Smoltz for Doyle Alexander in 1987. Alexander propelled them to the world championship, and as great as John Smoltz was, it seems unlikely lacking him cost the Tigers any subsequent championships. Was it a terrible trade? Maybe it was, but I think it was a good trade -- they were trading a strong pitching prospect to bolster the team for a championship run now. Once in a while that prospect turns into John Smoltz, but mostly he turns into Bill Pulsipher or whatever.

Anyway, that trade seems OK to Tigers fans, because, of course, they won the championship. If they hadn't, it would be regarded today as one of the most disastrous trades of all time. I think this is unfair.

One more point -- there were a lot of people that didn't like the Brewers drafting LaPorta last year, because they already had more glove-free mashers than they knew what to do with. This is why at the top of the draft, you always draft the best player available, period, regardless of perceived 'organizational needs'.

44. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim

Posted: July 07, 2008 at 12:37 AM (#2846333)

Most likely. I could see the Angels doing it, since Escobar is toast, and the performance of Saunders and Garland is flukish.

Saunders probably isn't actually one of the best starters in baseball, but what's so flukish about Garland's numbers? He's on a really good run right now, but coming into today's game, he's sporting just a 102 ERA+ for the season (career avg: 105), and his season WHIP is actually at its highest point since 2002. Garland could probably have this exact season for another five years.

45. Eric J is Financed by a Rich Grandpa Posted: July 07, 2008 at 12:40 AM (#2846355)

The Tigers didn't win the WS in 1987. They lost the ALCS to the Twins, who went on to beat the Cardinals.

46. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: July 07, 2008 at 12:41 AM (#2846361)

Anyway, that trade seems OK to Tigers fans, because, of course, they won the championship. If they hadn't, it would be regarded today as one of the most disastrous trades of all time. I think this is unfair.

Didn't the Twins win the championship in '87?

47. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim

Posted: July 07, 2008 at 12:41 AM (#2846365)

Anyway, that trade seems OK to Tigers fans, because, of course, they won the championship. If they hadn't, it would be regarded today as one of the most disastrous trades of all time. I think this is unfair.

The Tigers lost the 1987 ALCS to the eventual WS Champion Twins.

48. Crispix Attacks Posted: July 07, 2008 at 12:43 AM (#2846373)

ospect to bolster the team for a championship run now. Once in a while that prospect turns into John Smoltz, but mostly he turns into Bill Pulsipher or whate

I do declare, dear sir, a certain team from Minnesota may perchance have bested the Detroits in that particular autumn.

49. retro-shiite Posted: July 07, 2008 at 12:45 AM (#2846385)

And Doyle Alexander wasn't CC Sabathia, though he was lights out for the Tigers down the stretch in '87.

50. jyjjy Posted: July 07, 2008 at 12:46 AM (#2846388)

Watch out Bratwurst stands, here comes CC!

Will they let him participate in the sausage race without a costume?

51. PASTE is not impressed by Albert Pujols (Zeth) Posted: July 07, 2008 at 12:53 AM (#2846414)

You guys already knew I was an idiot, right? Geez, I suck at life...

I could edit that out now, but I don't see why my idiocy doesn't deserve to remain in print for all to point and laugh at.

OK, so anyway, they won the division. That's the important part... right?

52. retro-shiite Posted: July 07, 2008 at 12:55 AM (#2846424)

You are correct, however, that the '87 Tigers don't win the division without that Alexander trade. That was one hell of a divisional race. (Of course, even WITH Alexander, they still don't win the division without Toronto's largess, but I digress....)

53. NTNgod Posted: July 07, 2008 at 12:58 AM (#2846432)

The Brewers and the Cleveland Indians agreed in principle to a deal for the reigning AL Cy Young on Sunday, sources told ESPN's Buster Olney. The deal is contingent on paperwork being finished and the exchange of medical records.

The trade was first reported by the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel.

In a text message to ESPN.com's Amy K. Nelson, Sabathia all but confirmed the deal.

"I'm good, excited," Sabathia wrote. "It's weird leaving these guys."

ESPN

54. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: July 07, 2008 at 12:59 AM (#2846440)

We're conducting text message interviews now?

55. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim

Posted: July 07, 2008 at 01:01 AM (#2846442)

What I'll always remember from 1987 (aside from Alan Trammell's shoulda-been MVP season) was Tony Fernandez getting wiped out by Matlock and being lost for the season.

56. Bobby Bonilla's Annuity (Matt) Posted: July 07, 2008 at 01:06 AM (#2846449)

We're conducting text message interviews now?

I wonder if C.C. actually put the commas in.

57. retro-shiite Posted: July 07, 2008 at 01:10 AM (#2846455)

What I'll always remember from 1987 (aside from Alan Trammell's shoulda-been MVP season) was Tony Fernandez getting wiped out by Matlock and being lost for the season.

Who knew Andy Griffith was such a bat-out-of-hell baserunner?

58. PASTE is not impressed by Albert Pujols (Zeth) Posted: July 07, 2008 at 01:11 AM (#2846460)

im gud. cited. wierd leavin these guyz

59. NTNgod Posted: July 07, 2008 at 01:13 AM (#2846463)

We're conducting text message interviews now?

It's not just the younger guys, either.

Favre's first comments on the comeback rumors were via text message.

60. retro-shiite Posted: July 07, 2008 at 01:14 AM (#2846464)

hey sexy you are very cut it is bad you are 15 the law is very strick about that sort of thing but i might have 2 do an exception this time

61. NTNgod Posted: July 07, 2008 at 01:15 AM (#2846470)

Thank you, Eric Cyr.

62. Russlan will never be fond of Jason Bay Posted: July 07, 2008 at 01:17 AM (#2846473)

Congrats, Brewer fans. Small market teams have to go for it when they can. No team in the NL will be scary as the Brewers in the playoffs if they can keep Sheets and CC healthy.

63. Silencio Posted: July 07, 2008 at 01:17 AM (#2846475)

What are the Indians expected to do with LaPorta?

64. Harveys Wallbangers

Posted: July 07, 2008 at 01:20 AM (#2846484)

Wouldn't surprise me if LaPorta outhits Garko right quick.

Melvin's gone "all in". As we like to say at the poker table, "got's balls as big as church bells".

65. chemdoc Posted: July 07, 2008 at 01:23 AM (#2846495)

Hello. I'm Chris Hansen from Dateline NBC...

66. Earvin 'Gold Stars' Johnson Posted: July 07, 2008 at 01:23 AM (#2846497)

Who knew Andy Griffith was such a bat-out-of-hell baserunner?
Ha!
Doyle Alexander with the Tigers: 9-0 in 11 GS (88-1/3 IP) with an ERA of 1.53 (278 ERA+); 4th in Cy Young voting, 13th for the MVP.
Randy Johnson in 1998 with Houston was just as good, if not better (10-1, 321 ERA+), but the 'Stros were gonna win the division without him. Detroit, without Doyle, not so.

67. PASTE is not impressed by Albert Pujols (Zeth) Posted: July 07, 2008 at 01:36 AM (#2846520)

No team in the NL will be scary as the Brewers in the playoffs if they can keep Sheets ... healthy.

Yeah, and if Hank Steinbrenner gives them Alex Rodriguez and $270 million to pay him with. Which is equally likely.

68. Harveys Wallbangers

Posted: July 07, 2008 at 01:39 AM (#2846526)

All the more reason to acquire CC. When Ben goes "poof" there still remains a solid number one to take the load off the bullpen.

Or it's to be hoped....

69. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: July 07, 2008 at 01:47 AM (#2846542)

Passan reports Taylor Green is one of the minor leaguers.

70. pyrite Posted: July 07, 2008 at 01:59 AM (#2846574)

Is there any chance Gallardo is back for September/October?

71. JoeHova Posted: July 07, 2008 at 02:02 AM (#2846580)

Is there any chance Gallardo is back for September/October?

There are conflicting reports on that. When Gallardo first got injured, he said he hoped to be back by the end of the season. The team hasn't said anything to that effect though.

72. Ardo Posted: July 07, 2008 at 02:07 AM (#2846591)

The Alexander trade was remarkable because (unlike Randy Johnson) he wasn't an HoF-pedigree pitcher and because the Tigers went 11-0 in his regular season starts. Of course, his record was 9-0, but one of his two no-decisions was a 10 IP, 0 R gem. The Tigers scored in the bottom of the 11th to give Mike Henneman the victory.

73. NTNgod Posted: July 07, 2008 at 02:11 AM (#2846598)

Is there any chance Gallardo is back for September/October?

It's still POSSIBLE, but not something that can be counted on with any level of confidence.

74. shoewizard Posted: July 07, 2008 at 02:15 AM (#2846608)

The most significant thing here is the Dodgers didn't give up half the farm to get CC. It's been said many times, but deserves to be said again....for all the crap that Ned has gotten around here, (myself included) he hasn't given up any of his top young talent. He's blocked a few along the way, but hasn't given them up.

75. Esoteric Posted: July 07, 2008 at 02:20 AM (#2846619)

The most significant thing here is the Dodgers didn't give up half the farm to get CC. It's been said many times, but deserves to be said again....for all the crap that Ned has gotten around here, (myself included) he hasn't given up any of his top young talent.

That's just because Colletti is going to give up the farm for...Jack Wilson.

76. PASTE is not impressed by Albert Pujols (Zeth) Posted: July 07, 2008 at 02:21 AM (#2846620)

As long as he doesn't trade LaRoche for Jack ####### Wilson...

77. Harveys Wallbangers

Posted: July 07, 2008 at 02:21 AM (#2846623)

shoe:

The top two prospects in the Brewer system are Gamel and Escobar. Then LaPorta. Then Jeffress.

Don't see "half the farm system".

But perhaps you were referring to something else.

78. Tony H. Posted: July 07, 2008 at 02:22 AM (#2846624)

Wisconsin State Journal

The Brewers will give up outfielder Matt LaPorta, left-hander Zach Jackson, right-hander Rob Bryson and a player to be determined in the deal.

79. akrasian Posted: July 07, 2008 at 02:24 AM (#2846628)

As long as he doesn't trade LaRoche for Jack ####### Wilson...

While I agree it would be a ripoff to trade LaRoche for Jack Wilson - I'm not all that high on LaRoche. I think he'll be a decent major leaguer - I am skeptical that he will be a star. I do hope I'm wrong. I'm just not sure that he will hit for a decent average in the majors - and without that, he will have to have a very high iso to be a star.

80. Jonk Posted: July 07, 2008 at 02:26 AM (#2846635)

I wonder who the PTBNL is.... because the two compensatory draft picks that Sabathia will fetch will be better than Zach Jackson and Rob Bryson.

81. npurcell Posted: July 07, 2008 at 02:28 AM (#2846641)

I'm just not sure that he will hit for a decent average in the majors - and without that, he will have to have a very high iso to be a star.

82. NTNgod Posted: July 07, 2008 at 02:28 AM (#2846642)

But perhaps you were referring to something else.

I think he meant that there's often a belief around these parts that Colletti is going to gut the Dodgers' farm by trading away half of it for some vet, but it hasn't happened yet, despite fears/rumors to that effect.

83. Tony H. Posted: July 07, 2008 at 02:28 AM (#2846644)

Haudricourt

The fourth player currently is listed as "to be named later" but it is believed the Indians want to look more at Green, with the idea of moving him to second base.

84. Harveys Wallbangers

Posted: July 07, 2008 at 02:28 AM (#2846645)

Jonk:

Got that right. If that's accurate it's LaPorta and spare change......

85. JoeHova Posted: July 07, 2008 at 02:30 AM (#2846649)

Rob Bryson is pretty damn good, or so it looks from his K/BB and K/IP numbers. Small sample of course, as this is only his 2nd pro season. 12 Ks per 9 and 4.5 Ks per BB.

edit: Also, they say he has a 95 MPH fastball. I would much rather have seen Cain go.

86. akrasian Posted: July 07, 2008 at 02:34 AM (#2846657)

I wonder who the PTBNL is.... because the two compensatory draft picks that Sabathia will fetch will be better than Zach Jackson and Rob Bryson.

Possibly. Not every pick works out, and regardless of whether they work out, they get signing bonuses, so that balances it somewhat. Add in that LaPorta is worth more than 16-17 starts of Sabathia to the also ran Indians, and the PTBNL may or may not be significant. Obviously, Brewer fans hope he isn't, and Indian fans hope otherwise.

Frankly, getting one guy who looks very likely to have a significant major league career is a great trade. Three prospects besides is icing on the cake.

87. karkface killah Posted: July 07, 2008 at 02:35 AM (#2846662)

karkface approves. Great to see the Crew be a major player yet still have an opportunity to reload.

88. JoeHova Posted: July 07, 2008 at 02:36 AM (#2846664)

I mean, Jackson is irrelevant because he was gone after this season anyway. But they are still giving up Green and LaPorta, which means they caved and significantly improved their offer from Cain.

I should add, the word from the Journal-Sentinel is that the PTBNL will be Green once the Indians are reassured that he can still play 2B.

89. Jonk Posted: July 07, 2008 at 02:36 AM (#2846665)

Bryson has done well, yes. But we saw the Brewers draft some nice pitching talents in the supplemental and second rounds last month.

90. DKDC Posted: July 07, 2008 at 02:38 AM (#2846672)

The top two prospects in the Brewer system are Gamel and Escobar. Then LaPorta. Then Jeffress.

I don't follow the Brewers system closely, but that's the first time I've seen either Gamel and Escobar rated ahead of LaPorta.

Gamel's glove is a big question mark and this year is the first time he's hit at LaPorta's level. Escobar has a great glove, but he's needed a huge BABIP spike to post his first 700+ OPS as a professional.

91. NTNgod Posted: July 07, 2008 at 02:39 AM (#2846675)

But they are still giving up Green and LaPorta, which means they caved and significantly improved their offer from Cain.

LaPorta/Green/possibly Cain was one of the earliest versions of the trade proposal. Green was seemingly in at the beginning, and it appears it was three players from the get-go.

Based on the reports, it seems in the give-and-take of negotiations, Green got pulled off the table (since his name disappeared for a bit), but Melvin "relented" and put him back in the deal.

Jackson isn't much, but the Indians signed Jeff Weaver, so I suppose an arm is an arm for them right now.

If they caved, throwing in a low-A lottery ticket like Bryson isn't horrible. He wasn't someone to hold up the deal over.

92. Jonk Posted: July 07, 2008 at 02:46 AM (#2846687)

Sure, "not every pick works out," but not every 20-year-old Class A pitcher works out, either.

93. akrasian Posted: July 07, 2008 at 02:47 AM (#2846688)

Why not? He hardly strikes out and has shown excellent plate discipline in the minors. I realize he hasn't set the world on fire yet in the majors but his minor league resume is too good to not give him a healthy 400ABs or so.

Maybe I'm being harsh on him, but I haven't been impressed by his defense, and his major league tenure hasn't shown him ready for the pitching. He's not actually young for somebody who is going to become a star - he will turn 25 before the season is over. I know there are many exceptions, but somebody who has had two chances thus far to win a job, hasn't, and is two months from 25 is imo about to have his chances of stardom fade. As I said, I do think he'll be decent - I'm just beginning to be skeptical that he'll be the star predicted of him.

And yes, I hope it's just small sample size. And it wouldn't surprise me if he had one excellent season at his peak.

94. JoeHova Posted: July 07, 2008 at 02:48 AM (#2846691)

The top two prospects in the Brewer system are Gamel and Escobar.

Now they are, not before this trade. Those 2 may have more value to the Brewers because of positional concerns, but there is no way they are both better prospects. Gamel is not going to hit .380 in the majors.

95. akrasian Posted: July 07, 2008 at 02:52 AM (#2846695)

Sure, "not every pick works out," but not every 20-year-old Class A pitcher works out, either.

Of course not. It's foolish to think that ANY prospect is a sure thing, much less a young pitcher. But you are ignoring the factor of the signing bonus - but I am sure that the Indians are not.

The Indians got a player they think will be a significant contributor to them in a year or two. Plus they got three additional prospects, while saving Sabathia's salary for the rest of the season, AND saving the signing bonuses for the two draft picks they would have gotten for Sabathia.

Add in that the prospects they'll be getting are more of a sure thing than the draft picks (although with less chance of surprising on the high end).

96. PASTE is not impressed by Albert Pujols (Zeth) Posted: July 07, 2008 at 02:54 AM (#2846700)

somebody who has had two chances thus far to win a job, hasn't, and is two months from 25 is imo about to have his chances of stardom fade.

97. Vaux, A.B.D. Posted: July 07, 2008 at 02:55 AM (#2846704)

Garland's strikeout numbers are only going down.

98. VegasRobb Posted: July 07, 2008 at 02:59 AM (#2846713)

Very happy for the Brewer fans. I hope it works out and they make it into the playoffs.

99. Jonk Posted: July 07, 2008 at 03:00 AM (#2846717)

Well, then, at the very least, it's good to see that the Brewers now are not an organization that would concern themselves with having two extra signing bonuses to give.

100. akrasian Posted: July 07, 2008 at 03:03 AM (#2846726)

Andy LaRoche has 153 career plate appearances. That doesn't constitute one chance, much less two. Oh, and despite the terrible batting average, his OBP over those 153 plate appearances is .355. Ned Colletti is an idiot.

And his OPS is .694. He walks, and not all that much else.

And he had 115 plate appearances last season. Maybe in a dream world a team in contention gives a player 400 plate appearances to hit, but in the real world that just isn't normally the case. Some players are shorted by this demand that major league prospects actually produce, but not as many as some here think.

Look, it's not like I'm saying that LaRoche is crap - it's just that I'm getting skeptical that he is going to be the big star that many here believe. It could happen - but the older he gets without actually producing at the major league level, the less likely it is to happen.

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