Is Milwaukee really a smaller market than St. Louis? I guess if you assume St. Louis counts the populations of Arkansas, Western Kentucky/Tennessee, amd parts of Iowa and Illinois, I guess that could be the case... but I'd never consider St. Louis a "big market."

They're a small-market team with a rabid fan base.

St. Louis doesn't have Chicago a couple hours south, cutting off its geographical reach.

Of course, when Philadelphia were perennial losers 10 years ago, they were small market.

but I'd never consider St. Louis a "big market."

I think the author intended a distinction between "big markets such as New York, Philadelphia, Los Angeles, Chicago" and not-a-big-market-but "baseball-mad St. Louis"...

at least that's how I read it.

Metropolitan Milwaukee has barely two million people. That's a very small market, especially considering that there likely aren't too many Brewers fans in nearby Chicago. And by comparison, metro St. Louis is nearly three million.

Over the years Milwaukee has always drawn very well whenever the fans think that the owners are giving their best efforts into putting a competitive team onto the field. Which to me means that their fan base is loyal, but they don't like to get played for chumps.

I think the author intended a distinction between "big markets such as New York, Philadelphia, Los Angeles, Chicago" and not-a-big-market-but "baseball-mad St. Louis"...

at least that's how I read it.

Yes, that was the intention.

at least that's how I read it.

Then you got farther than I did: I just skimmed the excerpt and noticed the words "big market" and "St. Louis" and then I posted a comment.

So nevermind; pretty sad when not only do I not RTFA, I can't even RTFE.

It's great to see the Brewers draw so well. Milwaukee is definitely the smallest market in the country, below even Kansas City. Chicago cuts in to the south of us, and Minneapolis to the north. Joe Posnanski wrote an entertaining column about market size a few years ago on his Soul of Baseball blog that's worth a read.

Third, the Brewers are promotion-heavy. On Sunday, the Brewers are giving away Jeff Suppan bobble-heads

Finally!

Jeff Suppan bobble-heads

You'd think a head that ducks and swivels would be more appropriate. :-)

What really surprises me is that not only is it a small market but people in Milwaukee are pretty cheap. I've been living here for 8 years and there is certain tight-wadiness that I didn't experience in MN. For example, if I go out with friends I am used to splitting the bill by however many people are there regardless of who eats or drinks what (unless one person orders lobster and everyone else has a sandwich but I still wouldn't say anything I'd just expect the offending party to take care of it). On more than one occasion in Milwaukee our dining partners have sliced the bill here so everyone pays what they ordered for. Even if it just comes down to a couple bucks difference. And tipping in restaurants is particularly offensive here.

Clemenza:

Agreed. I have no patience for that nonsense but the peculiarity gets even greater should you say "Forget about the math, I will just pay the bill" or something to that effect. Folks STILL want to go through the exercise.

This trait is widespread across Wisconsin. I will refrain from much further commentary but if folks look who settled WI one might be able to gather how this happened.

Certainly in Fond du Lac, heavily settled by the Dutch, being cheap is a way of life of which those folks are quite proud....................

Certainly in Fond du Lac, heavily settled by the Dutch, being cheap is a way of life of which those folks are quite proud....................

You say that like it's a bad thing, Max Weber.

Getting people to pay more than 12.95 for a steak is a hard thing to pull off in Wisconsin. Wisconsites are definitely into the food is fuel demograhphic of America.

What really surprises me is that not only is it a small market but people in Milwaukee are pretty cheap. I've been living here for 8 years and there is certain tight-wadiness that I didn't experience in MN. For example, if I go out with friends I am used to splitting the bill by however many people are there regardless of who eats or drinks what (unless one person orders lobster and everyone else has a sandwich but I still wouldn't say anything I'd just expect the offending party to take care of it). On more than one occasion in Milwaukee our dining partners have sliced the bill here so everyone pays what they ordered for. Even if it just comes down to a couple bucks difference. And tipping in restaurants is particularly offensive here.

It isn't just Milwaukee, Clem. I've had to sneak back and cover undertipping everywhere I've lived. At this point there are people I won't go out to eat with because I got tired of making up for their nittiness. The only entire classes of people who seem exempt from this are waiters (naturally) and gamblers, and people who stuff their money into their front pockets, rather than into a wallet or a European purse.

But OTOH if you want to get into more believable geographical generalizations, in my many years of traveling the western PA - Minneapolis route on business, I have noticed that the average person in the restaurants there appears to weigh about 50 pounds more than the average person back East. All those smorgasbord style restaurants may have something to do with that, but then again it may simply be the influence of the Fielder family. (smile)

A few friends, all non-brewer, non-pirates fans, and I went up to the game last night. Sorta just for the heck of it. It was my first time to Miller Park, and I gotta say I really liked it. We had pretty good seats, but the whole stadium felt really up close to the action, everyone was really pleasant, and its a really neat building.

The heft tailgating in the lots probably helps too.

Yeah, the pre-game tailgating is great.

Ahh, tipping. Alas, this story doesn't (knowingly) reflect poorly on geographic or ethnic groups but this one time ... a short course in Ann Arbor and, on the last night, we participants went to a local pizza joint for dinner. One couple had gone to Michigan for grad school about 20-30 years before and had told us of all the great times they'd had at this place. They ordered a pizza and a pitcher of beer. They were the first to leave and left their contribution to the tab. At the end, everybody chipped in and we wandered off. The waitress chased out after us -- she'd been serving about 15 people for a couple hours ... and we'd left her about a $2 tip on about a $200 bill. Those of us left were a bit dumb-founded. Turned out the lovely couple had left $5 to cover their pizza and pitcher and tip -- probably what it cost them 20 years ago. (Still would have been a cheap tip but at least we'd have gotten it close to 10%! :-)

Yes, me and a couple other folks gave her a nice healthy tip.

It isn't just Milwaukee, Clem. I've had to sneak back and cover undertipping everywhere I've lived.

That's not been my life experience. Maybe it's the people you tend to hang out with?

Rays fans could learn a lot from these people as the Brewers get some of the best TV ratings in baseball too.

people that don't get the importance of tipping need to be lined up at Mr. Hutcheson's door...

I don't get angry about much these days, but bad- and non-tippers need to die.

The Brewers are the only team in MLB who don't hit you with an order processing charge when you buy tickets from them.

Dispatches from Milwaukee's East Side: Since everyone else had cash except for the two of us, I split an $80 tab with my fiancee's friend the other day; she tipped $5. When it's just a couple bucks' difference between being a cheapskate and leaving a normal tip and someone still opts for the former, I really don't understand it.

When it's just a couple bucks' difference between being a cheapskate and leaving a normal tip and someone still opts for the former, I really don't understand it.

Yeah, this. If you really can't afford the few extra bucks between a skint tip and a generous one, you probably can't afford to be eating out in the first place.

The problem with tips is that 10% used to be good enough, then 15%, now it's 20%. You know what, restaurants just need to pay their waiters better.