Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Saturday, December 29, 2012

Mitch Williams: Rangers have some work to do

Latest Ugly Thing from the Wild Thing.

sd

The other problem I see in Texas is the pitching coach. I like Mike Maddux very much. But he has to realize that not every pitcher can be a sinkerball pitcher. His brother, Greg, was probably the best ever. But when they have the ability to throw 97 mph, you can’t ask these pitchers to be sinkerballers. First of all, the two-seam fastball is harder to command than a four-seamer. Also, it is meant for the ball to be put in play, and balls put in play can find holes. There is a time and place to try and get a ground ball. But you can’t take a kid with the ability to throw 97 and ask him to throw 91-92 with less command.

They have an owner in Nolan Ryan who had a “big gun” and he shot it. If you have a pitcher with the ability to blow guys away and have better command, you have to let him be who he is. For the pitchers who command a two-seam fastball, it is a great way to attack a lineup. But for the guys who can’t command it, it is a way to practice backing up third base a lot.

I played 11 years in the big leagues and never threw a single two-seam fastball. I had a hard enough time commanding a four-seam fastball. I know pitch counts are all the rage, but I was always of the belief that if, at the end of the at-bat, the hitter was out. I had done my job. No matter how many pitches it took!

So of all the teams that still have work left to do this winter, I believe the Rangers have the most.

Repoz Posted: December 29, 2012 at 04:23 AM | 9 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: rangers

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. Walt Davis Posted: December 29, 2012 at 06:31 AM (#4334110)
Sorry, given most sinkerballers are good control pitchers and a lot of high fastball pitchers aren't, I'm not buying the 2-seamer harder to control than the 4-seamer. And, if it is true, it seems they learn to control it.

But Mitch Williams is an expert on not controlling pitches so maybe he knows best.
   2. Bug Selig Posted: December 29, 2012 at 08:56 AM (#4334115)
I think you're making an "all else being equal" assumption that isn't there.

High fastball pitchers throw hard. Sinkerballers don't. The fastball guys generally don't need fine command to become major-leaguers - just the ability to throw strikes. Sinkerballers are the guys with generic stuff who survive the weeding-out process largely because they have the command to hit spots. It isn't in any way surprising that they can hit spots.

A good analogy is that tall basketball players have no inherent disadvantage shooting a 3-pointer but they do it with less success because the shorter player has to be able to do it to even compete at high levels.

   3. Bob from Indiana Posted: December 29, 2012 at 02:41 PM (#4334217)
A good analogy is that tall basketball players have no inherent disadvantage shooting a 3-pointer but they do it with less success because the shorter player has to be able to do it to even compete at high levels.


I don't know. Isn't the angle where the basketball drops into the basket better for short guys.
   4. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: December 29, 2012 at 02:56 PM (#4334225)
Rangers were 21st in MLB in Pitcher GB% on Fangraphs in 2012. Either Williams is way off base or Maddux is really unsuccessful in forcing pitchers to rely on the sinker.
   5. J.R. Wolf Posted: December 29, 2012 at 08:33 PM (#4334366)
"I could never hit spots so I find it unreasonable that these guys are being expected to do so."
   6. Walt Davis Posted: December 30, 2012 at 05:48 AM (#4334538)
High fastball pitchers throw hard. Sinkerballers don't.

Actually, no, I'm thinking of guys like Kevin Brown, Carlos Zambrano (in his prime), etc. Even Wang was supposedly cranking it up there in the low 90s.

And that many hard throwers are both high fastball and high BB pitchers is not evidence that the high fastball is easier to control.
   7. Walt Davis Posted: December 30, 2012 at 06:05 AM (#4334539)
Also the 2012 Texas Rangers:

113 ERA+ (3rd)
8 K/9 (4th)
2.8 BB/9 (tied 2nd)
K/BB (4th)
GB/FB below league average
IP% league average
HR% league average
HR/FB league average

In 2011, everything was pretty much the same (fewer Ks but that was a league-wide change in 2012).

There's no evidence that the Rangers are a ground ball, ball in play team. There's no evidence their pitchers are having difficulty with control. There's no evidence they aren't K'ing their fair share of batters. Whatever Maddux is doing seems to be working pretty well.
   8. GGIAS (aka Poster Nutbag) Posted: December 30, 2012 at 07:16 AM (#4334542)
Agree with #7. Wasn't the pitching a problem in Texas BEFORE Maddux came in? Now, it seems like he's turned that into a very competitive staff. I know having great arms helps, but I have to think Maddux has carried his share of that load into getting them into such good shape.
   9. Bug Selig Posted: December 30, 2012 at 10:29 AM (#4334560)
Actually, no, I'm thinking of guys like Kevin Brown, Carlos Zambrano (in his prime), etc. Even Wang was supposedly cranking it up there in the low 90s.


I don't think any of those guys were ever thought of as control artists - they were overpowering in their own way.

And that many hard throwers are both high fastball and high BB pitchers is not evidence that the high fastball is easier to control.


High BB 88mph sinkerballers never sniff AA.

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

News

All News | Prime News

Old-School Newsstand


BBTF Partner

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Kiko Sakata
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogOTP: 5 December 2016: Baseball's New Collective Bargaining Agreement
(1093 - 3:01pm, Dec 08)
Last: Gone Fishing

NewsblogPrimer Dugout (and link of the day) 12-8-2016
(6 - 3:01pm, Dec 08)
Last: vortex of dissipation

NewsblogNationals acquire outfielder Adam Eaton | MLB.com
(50 - 2:58pm, Dec 08)
Last: There's a bustle in Misirlou's hedgerow

NewsblogYankees reportedly to sign Aroldis Chapman | MLB.com
(34 - 2:57pm, Dec 08)
Last: snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster)

Newsblog2016 Rule 5 Draft results | MLB.com
(23 - 2:44pm, Dec 08)
Last: mathesond

Sox TherapyThe Roster 1.0
(32 - 2:39pm, Dec 08)
Last: Jose Remains The Most Absurd Thing on the Site

NewsblogWhy the Adam Eaton trade wasn’t a panic move for the Washington Nationals - The Washington Post
(4 - 2:37pm, Dec 08)
Last: Bote Man

NewsblogBlue Jays trying to balance objective evaluation, subjective exuberance - Sportsnet.ca
(8 - 2:33pm, Dec 08)
Last: Papa Squid

NewsblogCards would have to leave comfort zone to land outfielder they desire | stltoday.com
(4 - 2:33pm, Dec 08)
Last: salvomania

NewsblogOT: NBA 2016-17 Preseason Thread
(1255 - 2:31pm, Dec 08)
Last: theboyqueen

NewsblogRyan Thibs has his 2017 HOF Tracker Up and Running
(94 - 2:31pm, Dec 08)
Last: Ithaca2323

NewsblogPhillies prospect Mickey Moniak adds 20 pounds of muscle
(43 - 2:28pm, Dec 08)
Last: Ron J

NewsblogHoly Toledo! Bill King is Hall of Fame announcer, finally
(14 - 2:27pm, Dec 08)
Last: theboyqueen

NewsblogCubs near trade to acquire closer Wade Davis from Royals
(50 - 2:15pm, Dec 08)
Last: Moses Taylor, Unwavering Optimist

NewsblogWould O's fans really hate Bautista if the team signed him? | Sports on Earth
(1 - 2:10pm, Dec 08)
Last: Jose Remains The Most Absurd Thing on the Site

Page rendered in 0.2028 seconds
49 querie(s) executed